Rubel Shelly : Worship Call to Community

Rubel Shelly and John York: Neo-Trinitarinism or Tritheism which is polytheism or three separated, independant members of the Family of God. The Max Lucado - Rubel Shelly neo-trinitariasm no basis in the Bible or in the church Fathers. They are horrified at the notion that God be thought of as three separated beings. God is one because Father, Son and Spirit resided in Jesus Christ. Otherwise, it is sheer nonsense to think of three independant gods who are ONE God. To call God a person was heresy.

Sermon reviewed at:

Rubel Shelly John York: An orthodox theology of the Trinity reveals a God in relationship. Altogether unlike Aristotle's singular Unmoved Mover who somehow creates order in the cosmos by having all things move toward him -- while he/it dwells in splendid isolation and reflects on him/itself -- the God of Christian faith is social.

According to John Calvin

The Jews make themselves altogether ridiculous, in pretending that God held communication with the earth or with angels. The earth, forsooth, was a most excellent adviser! And to ascribe the least portion of a work so exquisite to angels, is a sacrilege to be held in abhorrence. Where, indeed, will they find that we were created after the image of the earth, or of angels?

Does not Moses directly exclude all creatures in express terms, when he declares that Adam was created after the image of God?

Others who deem themselves more acute, but are doubly infatuated, say that God spoke of himself in the plural number, according to the custom of princes.

As if, in truth, that barbarous style of speaking, which has grown into use within a few past centuries, had, even then, prevailed in the world. But it is well that their canine wickedness has been joined with a stupidity so great, that they betray their folly to children.

Christians, therefore, properly contend, from this testimony, that there exists a plurality of Persons (personae in the church Fathers) in the Godhead.

God summons no foreign counsellor; hence we infer that
........... he finds within 1) himself something distinct; as, in truth,
........... his eternal (2) wisdom and (3) power reside within him.

And speaking of Aristotle:

"In our image, &c." Interpreters do not agree concerning the meaning of these words. The greater part, and nearly all, conceive that the word image is to be distinguished from likeness. And the common distinction is, that image exists in the substance, likeness in the accidents of anything. They who would define the subject briefly,

say that in the image are contained those endowments which God has conferred on human nature at large, while they expound likeness to mean gratuitous gifts.

But Augustine, beyond all others, speculates with excessive refinement,

for the purpose of fabricating a Trinity in man. For in laying hold of the three faculties of the soul enumerated by Aristotle, the intellect, the memory, and the will, he afterwards out of one Trinity derives many.

There is no orthodox view of the trinity (a minor exception) which is so heretical as to see GOD divided up into three separated Beings. The person who coined the word TRINITAS notes:

Tertullian (c. 150 - c. 225 A.D.) was the first person recorded by history to use the words trinity (Latin: trinitas), substance (substantia), and person (persona) in relation to God. [92] He was the first to speak of three persons in one substance (Latin: una substantia et tres personae).

Tertullian adhered to the economic conception of the trinity.
That is, he believed that the trinity exists for the purpose of revelation only,
........... and after this has been accomplished
........... the distinctions between the persons will cease.

"However, he definitely differed from Irenaeus in that he used the Logos doctrine of the Greek apologists. Tertullian equated the Logos with the Son. He believed the Father brought the Logos into existence for the creation of the world and the Logos was subordinate to the Father. The doctrine of the trinity posed no problem for Tertullian, for his whole theology rested on the thought that the more impossible the object of faith is, the more certain it is. He has been characterized by the statement, "I believe because it is absurd."

"It is apparent that many people in Tertullian's time opposed his new formulation. By his own admission the majority of believers in his day rejected his doctrine on two grounds: Their Rule of Faith (early creed or statement of belief) prohibited polytheism, and his doctrine divided the unity of God. [Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 3.}

See Rubel Shelly and the Greek Logos

Nevertheless: In his Apology, Tertullian Chapter XVII. noted:

The object of our worship is the One God,........... He who by His commanding word,
........... His arranging wisdom,
........... His mighty power,

brought forth from nothing this entire mass of our world, with all its array of elements, bodies, spirits, for the glory of His majesty; whence also the Greeks have bestowed on it the name of Kosmos. The eye cannot see Him, though He is (spiritually) visible.

THEOPHILUS TO AUTOLYCUS Book II CHAP. X.--THE WORLD CREATED BY GOD THROUGH THE WORD.

And first, they taught us with one consent that

God made all things out of nothing; for nothing was coeval with God: but He being His own place, and wanting nothing, and existing before the ages, willed to make man by whom He might be known; for him, therefore, He prepared the world. For he that is created is also needy; but he that is uncreated stands in need of nothing.

God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels, begat Him, emitting Him along with His own wisdom before all things.

He had this Word as a helper in the things that were created by Him, and by Him He made all things.

He is called "governing principle" [arkh], because He rules, and is Lord of all things fashioned by Him.

He, then, being Spirit of God, and governing principle, and wisdom, and power of the highest,

came down upon the prophets, and through them spoke of the creation of the world and of all other things.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2Co.3:17

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Pe 1:11

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1Jn.4:3

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Rev 19:10

For the prophets were not when the world came into existence, but the
........... wisdom of God which was in Him,
........... and His holy Word which was always present with Him.
........... Wherefore He speaks thus by the prophet Solomon:

"When He prepared the heavens I was there, and when He appointed the foundations of the earth I was by Him as one brought up with Him."

And Moses, who lived many years before Solomon, or, rather, the Word of God by him as by an instrument, says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." First he named the "beginning," and "creation," then he thus introduced God; for not lightly and on slight occasion is it right to name God.

For the divine wisdom foreknew that some would trifle and name a multitude of gods that do not exist.

In order, therefore, that
........... the living God
........... ........... might be known by His works,
......... ............. and that [it might be known that] by His Word

God created the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, he said, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Then having spoken of their creation, he explains to us: "And the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God moved upon the water." This, sacred Scripture teaches at the outset, to show that matter, from which God made and fashioned the world, was in some manner created, being produced by God.

Therefore, rather than THREE PERSONS, God is almost always identified by the three major images of His work in the world. Tertullian used some words objected to by the Restoration Scholars but he never CUT UP the Godhead into The Family of God or gods.

But, first, I shall discuss His essential nature, and so the nature of His birth will be understood. We have already asserted that

God made the world, and all which it contains,
........... by His Word,
........... and Reason,
........... and Power.

It is abundantly plain that your philosophers, too, regard the Logos-that is, the Word and Reason-as the Creator of the universe.

Word

God

Reason

Power

He is made a second in manner of existence-in position, not in nature;

and He did not withdraw from the original source, but went forth. This ray of God, then, as it was always foretold in ancient times, descending into a certain virgin, and made flesh in her womb,
........... is in His birth God and man united.

And we, in like manner, hold that the Word, and Reason, and Power, by which we have said God made all,
........... have spirit as their proper and essential substratum, in which t
........... ........... he Word has in being to give forth utterances,
........... ........... and reason abides to dispose and arrange,
........... ........... and power is over all to execute.

A search through the literature from Pentecost onward will find NO SUPPORT for GOD THE STANDING COMMITTEE prior to the Gospel Advocate and H. Leo Boles.

AS NOTED BY JOHN MARK HICKS, MAX LUCADO AND RUBEL SHELLY ARE THE MODERN POPULARIZERS OF TRITHISM. THIS "INCARNATIONAL VIEW," THEREFORE DENIES THAT CHRIST CAME FULLY IN THE FLESH AND THAT AMOUNTS TO ANTI-CHRIST.

> "This God is never called a person. The word person was never applied to God in the Middle ages. The reason for this is that the three members of the Godhead were called personae (faces or countenances): The Father is persona, the Son is persona, and the Spirit is persona. Persona here means a special characteristic of the divine ground, expressing itself in an independent hypostasis.

Thus, we can say that it was the nineteenth century which made God into a person, with the result that the greatness of the classical idea of God was destroyed by this way of speaking... but to speak of God as a person would have been heretical for the Middle Ages; it would have been to them a Unitarian heresy, because it would have conflicted with the statement that God has three personae, three expressions of his being. (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 190)

> "The Spirit accompanies the divine Word of the Father, just as the breath (Greek, pneuma; Latin, spiritus) accompanies the word spoken by a man.

The three persons do not exist side by side in the divine world.

We can compare them to the presence of different fields of knowledge in the mind of an individual: philosophy may be different from medicine, but it does not inhabit a separate sphere of consciousness. The different sciences pervade one another, fill the whole mind and yet remain distinct. (A History of God, Karen Armstrong, p. 117)

John Mark Hicks notes:

We have shifted from an emphasis rooted on a common factual confession that Jesus is the Christ to a Trinitarian emphasis on his deity.

Trinitarianism has been (re)born among us.

An incarnational theology, represented by Max Lucado in particular, dominates the current climate in our churches. Interestingly, this renewal has primarily developed along ethical and devotional / spiritual lines.

An emergent Trinitarianism is evident among us, not only among Churches of Christ, but also in other branches of the Stone-Campbell Movement.[36] Even though our biblical scholars are somewhat hesitant, this shift comes from several quarters.

First, the previous generation's defense of the deity of Christ forced some reflection along this line.

Alexander Campbell and most historical writers under stand that ideas were often personified. Thus, my spirit may be holy or unholy and she might get nasty. The Word of Charlie is that which proceeds out of the mouth of Charlie. However, the Word must begin with a thought as its father. Now how Campbell shows us the most universal view.

As a word is an exact image of an idea,
........... so is "The Word" an exact image of the invisible God.

As a word cannot exist without an idea, nor an idea without a word,
........... so God never was without "The Word," nor "The Word" without God;

or as a word is of equal age, or co-etaneous with its idea,
........... so "The Word" and God are co-eternal.

And as an idea does not create its word nor a word its idea;
........... so God did not create "The Word," nor the "Word" God.

Such a view does the language used by John suggest.
........... And to this do all the scriptures agree.

For "The Word" was made flesh,
........... and in consequence of becoming incarnate,
........... he is styled the Son of God, the only Begotten of the Father.

As from eternity God was manifest in and by "The Word,"
........... so now God is manifest in the flesh.

As God was always with "The Word,"
........... so when "The Word" becomes flesh,
........... he is Emanuel, God with us.

As God was never manifest but by "The Word,"
........... so the heavens and the earth, and all things were created by "The Word."

God operting in the physical world is also called God's ARM but we don't get silly about that.

The confesson of the TRINITY is of course a Roman Catholic confession. But, surprise, surprise, the Catholics never CUT the Godhead into three members of the God family who are ONE simply because they are made of the same God Stuff and are a happy, agreeable Family of God.

The present heresy is, like the instrumental heresy, a repudiation of the Bible and the overwhelming view of those who LIVED BEFORE ME.

We can trust Rubel Shelly and John York or we can trust God who says "I am God and there is no other God beside me."

Rubel Shelly John York: Revealing himself in undifferentiated form as Yahweh in the Old Testament, he is known in Gospels and New Testament epistles as a single essence (i.e., level of being) engaged in both internal and external relationships as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. It is here that we often use the word "mystery" as we fumble to grasp the notion of a deity who is completely one but who is somehow three separate entities.

Hislop notes: "That object was to bind all mankind in blind and absolute submission to a hierarchy entirely dependent on the sovereigns of Babylon.

In the carrying out of this scheme, all knowledge, sacred and profane,
........... came to be monopolised by the priesthood,
........... who dealt it out to those who were initiated in the "Mysteries"

exactly as they saw fit, according as the interests of the grand system of spiritual despotism they had to administer might seem to require.

"Thus the people, wherever the Babylonian system spread,
........... were bound neck and heel to the priests.
........... The priests were the only depositaries of religious knowledge;

they only had the true tradition by which the writs and symbols of the public religion could be interpreted;

and without blind and implicit submission to them,
what was necessary for salvation could not be known.

"Craftily and gradually did Rome lay the foundation of its system of priestcraft, on which it was afterwards to rear so vast a superstructure. At its commencement, "Mystery" was stamped upon its system.Click for Hermes - Mercury the "New Hermeneutics"

The most notable promoting this heresy is Benny Hinn. Hank Hanegraaff, Christianity in Crises, documents the following of Benny Hinn:

"Man, I feel revelation knowledge already coming on me here. Lift your hands. Something new is going to happen here today. I felt it just as I walked down here. Holy Spirit, tale over in the name of Jesus...God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person; and He is a triune being Himself separate from the Son and Holy Ghost. Say, what did you say? Hear it, hear it, hear it. See, God the Father is a person. God the Son is a person. God the Holy Spirit is a person. But each one of them is a triune being by Himself. If I can shock you -- and maybe I should -- there's nine of them. Huh, what did you say? Let me explain: God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person with his own personal spirit, and with His own personal soul, and His own personal spirit-body. You say, Huh, I never heard that. Well you think you're in church this church to hear things you've heard for the last fifty years? You can't argue with the word, can you? It's all in the Word." Resource

Everyone has alway had a problem with 3 = 1. If it expressed the truth then we would accept the MYSTERY which God hid until the New Testament. But it does not: God is ONE in number but the WORD created all things. God conceived the THOUGHT and the thought gave birth to the WORD as Son. The Holy Spirit has always existed because IT is the mind or mental disposition of the Word Who has always been as much of God as His THOUGHT.

"Orthodox trinitarians deny tritheism, which is the belief in three gods. However, when asked to explain how there can be three distinct persons and yet only one God, they ultimately explain that the trinity is a mystery our finite human minds cannot comprehend fully. Otto Heick, A History of Christian Thought (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1965), I, 160; Stevens, p. 119; "Trinity, Holy," p. 295.

God is not three Gods but fills Three or More roles. As Shelly sees the LOGOS as a product of Greek Theology as John "took liberties" to write his gospel, the Old Testament uses the word DABAR which with a bit of translation shows that when God speaks in the world it is through His Word which is personified. Yet, as God is HIGHLY DIFFERNTIATED in the Old Testament, He is not dozens of PERSONS.

And he said, The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 2 Sam 22:2

The God (Elohim) of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence. 2 Sam 22:3

I will call on the Lord (Jehovah), who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies. 2 Sam 22:4

Based on this why isn't the FAMILY OF GODS 8 members or more? Below we have them "named."

By putting this passage in table form it becomes clear that God is not made up of six co-equal members of the Godhead called Rock, Shield, Horn, High Tower, Refuge and Savior:

	Deliverer	Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. Ps.91:14
	Fortress	And the inhabitants of Jebus said to David, Thou shalt not come hither. Nevertheless David took the castle of Zion, which is the city of David. 1 Chr.11:5
	Rock	The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God. 2 Samuel 23:3 ---And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:4 (Christ ia always evident in the O.T.)
	Shield	He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. Psalm 91:4 ---Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. Ephesians 6:16
God is my	Horn	And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; Luke1:69
	High Tower	Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Ephesians 4:8
	Refuge	O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. Jeremiah 16:19
	Saviour is YASHA	And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Matthew 1:21 Joshua or Jesua is y�hoÇwshuÇwa - yaÇshaý God is my Jesus! (Zec 3)

But there has never been a scholar who would define JEHOVAH who is the One and Only true Elohim is ONE GOD and you deny it at your peril.

Scriptures clearly say:

Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey. Deut 6:3

Hear, O Israel: The Lord (Jehovah) our God (Elohenu) is one Lord (Jehovah): Deut 6:4

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deut 6:5

Of all of the elohim, including Moses, Jehovah is the ONE true El.

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. Deuteronomy 32:39

And yet, as God speaks as His WORD personified, He prophesied that He would send His own ARM as the Intercessor:

And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. Is.59:16

God's Arm is not a separated member of the Family of God and therefore His Word is not separated. The Septuagint shows how God will destroy those who destroyed to the beat o instruments.

Must ye always rejoice, and go into my holy places continually, as they that keep a feast? and must ye go with a pipe, as those that rejoice into the mountain of the Lord, to the God of Israel Isaiah 30:29 LXX

and the Lord shall make his glorious voice to be heard and the wrath of his arm, to make a display with wrath and anger and devouring flame: he shall lighten terribly, and his wrath shall be as water and violent hail. Isaiah 30:30 LXX

For by the voice of the Lord the Assyrians shall be overcome, even by the stroke where with he shall smite them. Isaiah 30:31 LXX

And it shall happen to him from every side, that they from whom their hope of assistance was, in which he trusted, themselves shall war against him in turn with drums and with harp. Isaiah 30:32 LXX

For thou shalt be required before thy time: has it been prepared for thee also to reign? nay, God has prepared for thee a deep trench, wood piled fire and much wood: the wrath of the Lord shall be as a trench kindled with sulphur. Isaiah 30:33 LXX

O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God. Isaiah 40:9

Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.Is.40:10

He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young. Is.40:11

God's SON is his ARM, SHOULDER, SHIELD which intercedes between His Spirit nature and the world.

Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind (spirit) in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his sons name, if thou canst tell? Prov 30:4

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Prov 30:5

Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Prov 30:6

At the same time, people understood that if the pagan gods were supposed to live in a rock, Jehovah who was the One and only True El, could be said to be the True Rock because He could bring forth water and deliver His Word to mankind without having to spend a night sleeping on a rock table. The Babylonians believed that the gods or demons lived inside of the wind instruments and were its source of power.

"The Babylonian trinity was 'the Eternal Father, the Spirit of God incarnate in a human mother, and a Divine Son, the fruit of that incarnation." Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, 2nd ed. (Neptune, N.J.: Loizeaux Bras., 1959), pp. 16-19.

However, Yahweh is our source of breath and power:

The God is my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence. 2 Samuel 22:3

In the ancient view, you could beat your sword on your leather shield (drum) or your brass (cymbal) shield and the gods would come to your aid and the music would panic the enemy into fleeing. God could send wasps or a plague and you didn't have to gong or clang.

The horn or coronet was made like a crooked serpent and you could play music like a hissing sound and the gods would speak right out of the instrument which was an idol of the Babylon serpent god. However, the True God would work in the affairs of mankind without blowing on Him.

When the Babylonians "ascended" the tower of Babel and other high towers, they played loud music hoping to meet a god ascending and descending the ladder. When you got to the top, where the paid priest was your mediator, you could either attack or appease the god with music to force him to give you a good crop or more goats. God supplies all good things.

Whatever the pagan mind conceived of as power, God was its true source. The towers were the refuge to keep God from washing the people away again therefore God is our Refuge being the "walls of fire" of salvation and we do not need Cain, Jubal, Jabal, Tubal-Cain, Naamah or Nimrod to protect us from the wild animals.

	My Rock
The Lord is (is One God but also in form of)	My Fortress and
	My Deliverer 2 Samuel 22:2

Notice another trinity manifestation of the One Lord God.

The Spirit of the Lord spoke by me, And His word was on my tongue. 2 Samuel 23:2

The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God. 2 Samuel 23:3

In another passage we see five "beings" or "persons" speaking if we are inclined to ignore symbolic language:

The	Spirit (1)	Of the	Lord	Spoke
The	God (2)	Of	Israel	Said
The	Rock (3)	Of	Israel	Spake
The	One	enthroned in	Heaven	Laughs
The	Lord	(adonay)	-	Scoffs Psalm 2:4NIV

When the ONE GOD who is Spirit and therefore not separated into three SPIRIT makes Himself know in earthly activities it is the SPIRIT OF CHRIST.

Jesus said that if you see me you see the Father and He said that the "another Comforter" will be Me. The "Lord" told Paul that "I am Jesus of Nazareth."

Please grasp that the problem arises from trying to make an eternal trinity out of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But, that has no Biblical or historical foundation.

First, God is infinite, invisible, incomprehensible Spirit to the human mind. That does not mean that God is a SUPER PERSON but that God is "wholly other" not like anything material.

However, God MANIFESTS Himself in three primary ways related to the triune nature of the human body, soul and Spirit.

Full invisible Deity

Manifestations (personae)

Father

God

Son

Holy Spirit

The Triune nature is not truly glimpsed as God, Jesus and Spirit but Father is God, Son is God and Spirit is God. Father, Son and Spirit are not names but Jesus is. In Hebrew Jesus or Joshua means Jehovah-Saves. As Jehovah was made known by various hyphenated names in the Old Testament, God of full Deity

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:9

Jesus was born of Mary as "a body prepared for me" but Jesus as the Word WAS WITH GOD and WAS GOD. It was the Spirit of Christ in the prophets (1 Pet 1:11; Rev. 19:10).

However, when the people were all out of sorts about having to eat the body and drink the blood of "Jesus" He made it clear to those with ears that the

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

If an infinite God can incarnate His Nature in a poor boy like Jesus then Jesus as FULL DEITY can incarnate His Spirit as THE MIND OF CHRIST in His Words. Jesus even said that the God-Job of judging people for eternity has been incarnated in His Words. If you don't think that He can do that then why believe that He can live within human flesh which He used as "clothing?"

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Jn.12:47

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.Jn.12:48

Rubel Shelly John York: Christians do not believe there are three Gods. That would be polytheism as opposed to monotheism. Orthodox Christians are staunchly monotheistic yet affirm that the God who is one in divine essence but three separate personalities. "God is one, and there is no God but the Holy Trinity; God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

There is a vast difference between saying that God was three "personalities" or in the trinitarian language three personae, and saying that God is three separated personal beings. I suppose all with their own spirit?

With rare exeption the formulation of attributes is not God, Son and Holy Spirit. Rather it is

	Father (Thought)
God	Son (Word)
	Spirit (Breath)

Rubel Shelly John York: There is no perfect analogy to express the divine nature, but neither are we left without hints and shadows.

For example, if deity is a level of personal being higher than that of angel or human being,

it should no more be thought impossible for there to be separate personalities at that supreme level than at the lower levels of angel (e.g., Gabriel, Michael, et al.) or human (e.g., John, Rubel, et al.).

There is a big difference: God is God and angels are not. God is infinite in being and eternal in time and omnipresence. God is UNIQUE and He IS NOT just a notch up from the angels.

The order of created beings is graded from top to bottom: man is a little lower than angels. To make the analogy stick one has to define the trinity as GRADED IN LEVEL. There is no other way.

H. Leo Boles: Their Standing (status or rank) is always first, second and third. P. 20.

Therefore, when polytheists say that God is one they mean that they are all made of the same GOD STUFF.

God is uncreated and eternal but angels and all other beings are CREATURES. It is dangerous to try to understand a Holy (wholly) Spirit God by comparing Him mankind. God is "wholly other" and it is idolatry to try to create an earthly image other than that which God had created of Himself: Jesus Christ or Joshua or Jehovah- Saved.

Lucifer, is the harp- playing prostitute personified as the King/queen of Trye. Lucifer or Heylel may have been the highest. She presumed that God was just a little higher on the totem pole. Therefore, if this is true then it is pefectly logical for one RANK to try to ASCEND up to another level. But the Holy Spirit God who appeared as Jesus the Christ is infinitely higher than Lucifer.

Rubel and John might as well ask: "If I can jump 6 feet, how many jumps will it take to jump over the Grand Canyon?" The answer is obvious: the Canyon is infinitely beyond our jumping ability.

The TRITHEISM of Rubel Shelly has the "Father God and the Spirit God aceing out the little Son God to trick Him into dying for mankind."

The fact is that there CAN BE only one God and all else are creatures. The Word or Christ or Holy Spirit which indwelled Jesus Christ "the body prepared for me" was FULL DEITY Who made the initiative to LAY ASIDE the invisible nature of Deity and image Himself as a humble man who could not preach in any pulpit in the land. If Jesus was less than FULL DEITY then as "son" He must be younger and inferior to the rest of the Family of God.

Rubel Shelly John York: The essence that makes one an angel or a human is common, shared, and one; the human race is ultimately one (cf. Acts 17:26) though differentiated into many separate persons.

But, in TAKING LIBERTIES, Rubel takes too much. What Paul really said was:

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; Ac.17:26

God is not ONE in the collective sense: that is polytheism. Rather, God is NUMBERAL ONE. Just ONE and there are no others beside ME. God is never WE nor THEY but ME OR I.

In Neo-Calvinism: God is One, He is one just as three humans are one.
........... l That is, as three men are made of the same man stuff,
........... ........... God is one because all three persons are made of God stuff.

In addition, three equals one because all are equal in power and glory. (See theWestminster Larger Catechism).

Rubel Shelly John York: Similarly, the essence of perfect holiness, perfect truth, and perfect love that makes one divine is common, shared,

and one; deity (i.e., Godhead) is ultimately and necessarily one though differentiated into three separate persons.

That means that GOD HAS NO CHOICE! Adam and Eve became ONE but they were two persons. God is not made in the image of Adam and Eve: God is NUMBERICALLY ONE.

Athenagoras the trinity: Chapter VIII.-Absurdities of Polytheism.

As regards, then, the doctrine that there was from the beginning one God, the Maker of this universe, consider it in this wise, that you may be acquainted with the argumentative grounds also of our faith.
........... If there were from the beginning two or more gods,
........... ........... they were either in one and the same place,
........... ........... or each of them separately in his own.

In one and the same place they could not be.

For, if they are gods, they are not alike;
........... but because they are uncreated they are unlike:
........... for created things are like their patterns;
........... ........... but the uncreated are unlike,
........... ........... being neither produced from any one,
........... ........... nor formed after the pattern of any one.

Hand and eye and foot are parts of one body, making up together one man: is God in this sense one?
........... And indeed Socrates was compounded and divided into parts,
........... just because he was created and perishable;
........... ........... but God is uncreated, and, impassible, and indivisible-
........... ........... does not, therefore, consist of parts.

But if, on the contrary, each of them exists separately,

since He that made the world is above the things created, and about the things He has made and set in order,
where can the other or the rest be?

For if the world, being made spherical, is confined within the circles of heaven,

and the Creator of the world is above the things created, managing that by His providential care of these,

what place is there for the second god, or for the other gods?

For he is not in the world, because it belongs to the other; nor about the world, for God the Maker of the world is above it.

But if he is neither in the world nor about the world (for all that surrounds it is occupied by this one ), where is he?

But the Son of God is the Logos (word) of the Father,

in idea and in operation;
for after the pattern of Him and by Him were all things made,
the Father and the Son being one.
And, the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son, in oneness and power of spirit,

the understanding and reason (nous kai logoj) of the Father is the Son of God.

Shelly and York seem to say that God could not exist except in terms of humanity: the CREATOR cannot rise above the CREATURE.

God defines Himself many times as both the of or source and the by or means. For instance, God is the of and His Right Hand is His means:

For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many, 1 Corinthians 8:5
But to us there is but one God,
........... the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and
........... one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by

In Hebrew the One Lord (Jehovah) was the ONLY God (Elohim). Thomas exclaimed of Jesus in Whom dwelled full Deity: "My Lord and my God."

Paul says, in effect, Others might have many gods, but not Christians. Even we plan (of our spirit) and execute (by our hands) to accomplish a task. Isaiah prophesied of the composite nature of the One God:

For unto us a child (seed) is born,
unto us a son is given:

Now, that is not two "people"-

and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God (El), The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. Isaiah 9:7

	King	Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6
	Wonderful Counselor	Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? Isaiah 40:13 ---For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Timothy 2:5
The Son is	Mighty God	I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Revelation 1:8
	Ever- lasting Father	Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O Lord, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting. Isaiah 63:16 ---Art thou not from everlasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O Lord, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction. Revelation 1:12
	Prince of Peace	Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. Acts 5:31 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. Is.59:16

Full invisible Deity	*Manifestations (personae)*

	King	First
Lord Jehovah	and	and
	Redeemer	Last

Full invisible Deity	*Manifestations (personae)*

	Father
God	Son
	Holy Spirit