Rubel Shelly - False HERMENEUTIC

Rubel Shelly: A false hermeneutic violates direct commands against false exegesis, hermeunitcs and any private interpretation which is further expounding. Rubel Shelly sees instrumental music and drinking wine as two battlegrounds of the new church. Interestingly, wine drinking and music always went together. The names of instrument players are quite identical to the word PARASITE This word inclueds all professional hermeneuts and exegetes or "doctors of the Law" whom Jesus warned against.

Rubel Shelly: more about our Restorationist issues than about the atonement, couching too much of what we say, I'm afraid, in historical context rather than just standing up and speaking a bold word for the Lord.

Most who come into our assemblies can't even translate what they hear because they don't know what familiar-to-us terms such as "Restoration plea, or "Old Paths," or even "plan of salvation," or "church autonomy" mean. Those are coded words us, people, and they don't communicate very well with folks who didn't start where we started.

Much less do they care to know about our fratricidal wars over the authority of elders, instrumental music in worship, whether to be having unity forums like this, or versions of the Bible.

The black text is the commentary of this author. Rubel will be in THE BOX or red, and other quotations in Blue are clearly identified.

There is no more marked manifestation of God's wrath than the fact that he permits the decline of his spoken and written Word." "Pleased with his own way is everyone, Hence the land with fools is overrun." Martin Luther On Romans 15

Added 7/29/03: The Synagogue OUTLAWS creating spiritul anxiety SO THAT we can glorify God WITH ONE VOICE using "that which is written." That defines the SYNAGOGUE Christ promised to build and not a pagan, polluted worship ritual.

> C. Leonard Allen (ACU ) and Richard T. Hughes: Discovering our Roots? No. Calvin: "There is no more marked manifestation of God's wrath than the fact that he permits the decline of his spoken and written Word." When God pours out His wrath, He sends BUFFOONS.
> Royce Money ACU "can't determine the foundation of the church."

> Carrol D. Osburn ACU: Training people to play leading PROPHETIC roles in CHANNELING and FACILITATING ch

Rubel Shelly at the Restoration Forum XII - Abilene Christian University (ACU), proposes a Post Denominational rule of fellowship with instrumental music. He demands that non-musical churches fellowship instrumental churches to escape the horrors of being: "fratricidal, traditionalist, legalists, attitude of superiority, unChristian posture, schismatic, Satanic, sectarian, idolatrous, irrelevant, just pushing junk." The same people who don't have the time or inclination to "fellowship" musical churches are said to preach an "ology" of church which is decadent and deliterious. To those without doctorates, that is rotten and destructive. We have now been assaulted by being called pharisaical and racist for rejecting instrumental music in worship.

See the Max Lucado - Rubel Tritheism which makes the Family of Gods a little higher than angels.

The SHAM contest is held between Rubel and the Disciples on one side and all of those old legalists on the other side. However, in the shell game the pea is under NEITHER of the shells. The conservative Christian church might enjoy seducing ACU under their umbrella but they would not agree with the DOGMA being fostered as pseudo "Unity Forums."

Roger R. Chambers Christian Church "The territory around the pulpit has long since been claimed by

commanding personality,
practical mysticism,
professional music, and
pop psychology.

This defines the rhetoricians and musicians who were PARASITES.

"A round of applause awaits the convention speaker who will announce that we are saved by Jesus, not doctrine. Brotherhood scholars

impressed by German theology
are throwing up a wall between Jesus and doctrine.

"This one-eyed theology is catchy; it breathes rhetorical authority. By design it eases the force of doctrine, mitigates the raw authority of Scripture, accredits human testimony, and expands the range of union. But it won't work. Jesus does not descend in euphoric mystery; He comes clothed in the Apostles' Doctrine and swells in our hearts by faith....

"The Sissification of the Church. The universal trend is for Church to surrender to culture, and our culture is a sissified one. That's the word, not feminine. Modern so-called feminism is not feminine; it is little more than broken womanhood crying out for identity and significance.

"As a culture removes itself from God, its masculine virtue fades and a twisted femaleness takes over.

"That's why homosexuality is the end of the line in the mind of God. Good men become bad men, but when men stop being men and women stop being women, the creation image is destroyed and all is lost. Ours is a country that can barely, if at all, bring itself to execute its child murderers; it doesn't have the nerve to defend its legitimate international interests. It divinizes poverty and failure while it denigrates successful competence.

It has no future but limp-wristed oblivion.
The real world is not the place for sissified men, societies,
or churches.

Chambers notes that this destruction of the Word and Church depends on SKILLED RHETORICAL AUTHORITY. Scripture repudiates these as SUPER APOSTLES who would destroy you-- but only for a price. While many have the desire to teach the Word as it has been taught, increasingly preachers get the BIG jobs only if they are charismatic rhetoricians. However, the Word does not depend on such human talent from unbelievers;

Rhętor-ikos , ę, on, oratorical, hę rhętorikę (sc. technę) rhetoric; of persons, skilled in SPEAKING, fit to be an ORATOR

The Word of God CANNOT tolerate human skills: it was given from Christ to the People and to evangelists honest enough to forsake all and go into all the world as heralds rather than become word technicians or craftsmen or parasites.

The TECHNE is the craftsman who conspires with the holy whore's musicians and instrument players, all identified as PARASITES and HYPOCRITES: speakers, actors, singers or musicians. See Revelation 18.

A word with similar meaning to the rhetorician:

Hupokritikos , ę, on, belonging to hupokrisis 11 , skilled therein, esti phuseôs to hu. einai having a good delivery, Arist.Rh.1404a15 .

2. suited for speaking or delivery, (sc. technę) the art of delivery, (but, the actor's art, .[The techne are grouped with the musicians (muses, locusts as musical performers in Revelation 18:22 working for the holy whore religion.]

3. metaph., acting a part, pretending to


I. to reply, make answer, answer, Hom., Hdt.2. to expound, interpret, explain, Od., Ar.:--the attic word in this sense is apo-krinomai.


Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Pe.1:20

Epilusis (g1955) ep-il'-oo-sis; from 1956; explanation, i.e. application: - interpretation.

Epiluo (g1956) ep-ee-loo'-o; from 1909 and 3089; to solve further, i.e. (fig.) to explain, decide: - determine, expound.

The Scriptures speak for themselves and in SCHOOL they should be "taught as they have been taught." There is no handle by which professional scholars, speakers or musicians can get closer access than the non- professional to help God. That is why the Greek world honored the herald because "he delivered the message as it had been delivered to him." However, Jesus fired the DOCTORS OF THE LAW because they "take away the key to knowledge" by presuming superior authority. That is why they are identified as PARASITES.

rhythmice- , e-s, f., = rhuthmikę, sc. technę, the art of observing rhythm: rhythmice est ars omnis in numeris, Mart. Cap. 9, § 969 .

musica , ae, and mu-si(ce- , e-s, f., = mousikę, the art of music, music; acc. to the notions of the ancients, also every higher kind of artistic or scientific culture or pursuit: musicam Damone aut Aristoxeno tractante? etc., Cic. de Or. 3, 33, 132 : socci et cothurni,i. e. comic and dramatic poetry, Aus. Ep. 10, 43 : musice antiquis temporibus ???tantum venerationis habuit, ut, Quint. 1, 10, 9

exęgętikos , ę, on, of or for narrative, Diom. p.428K.: Comp. Adv. -ôteron Antig.Mir.60 .

2. explanatory, Hermog.Id.1.6, Alex. Aphr. in Metaph.358.13, S.E. M.9.132, etc. Adv. -kôs ib.7.28.
II. exęgętika (sc. biblia), ta, title of work on religious rites by Anticlides, Plu.Nic.23: -kon, to, work by Timosthenes, Sch.A.R.3.847
Similar meaning:
exe-ge-ti(ce , es, f., = exęgętikę, the art of interpretation, exegesis, Diom. 2, p. 421 P.
magice- , e-s, f., = magikę (sc. technę), the magic art, magic, sorcery (post-Aug.): pariter utrasque artes effloruisse, medicinam [p. 1097] dico magicenque, Plin. 30, 1, 2, § 10; 30, 1, 2, § 7: magices factio, id. 30, 1, 2, § 11 .
factio , o-nis, f. [id.] II. (Acc. to facio, II. B.; lit., a taking part or siding with any one; hence concr.) A company of persons associated or acting together, a class, order, sect, faction, party (syn.: pars, partes, causa, rebellio, perduellio, seditio).

exęgęsis [from exęgeomai]

I. a statement, narrative, Thuc.

II. explanation, interpretation, Plat.

hermęn-euma , atos, to, interpretation, explanation, in pl., E.Ph.470, HF1137, Ph.2.300.

symbol, monument, Nęręidos gamôn E.Andr.46 .

epithesis , eôs, hę, setting on its base, tou andriantos

laying or putting on, application
application of epithets, tas e. poieisthai Arist.Rh.1405b22 .
imposition of increased burdens, Cat.Cod.Astr.7.134
setting upon, attack, Antipho 2.2.13; This was imposing an extra tax when the nation was NOT at war.

II. of actors, to answer on the stage: hence to play a part, be an actor
2. to represent
dramatically: hence to exaggerate
3. metaph. to
play a part, to feign, pretend, c. inf., id=Dem.

Of those who would DIVERT a non-instrumental church into being an instrumental church and taking pay for it as rhetorician or Sophist, the Greek had a word for it.

parasi-tus , i, m., = parasitos, lit. one who eats with another; hence,

I. In gen., a guest (pure Lat. conviva): parasiti Jovis, the gods, Varr. ap. Aug. Civ. Dei, 6, 7; App. M. 10, p. 246, 35.--Hence, parasitus Phoebi, a player, actor, Mart. 9, 29, 9.--

II. In partic., in a bad sense, one who, by flattery and buffoonery, manages to live at another's expense, a sponger, toad-eater, parasite

Of course, Jubilee 2000 and its earlier incarnations leads the way toward making the radical changes in people's minds through actual experience to accept instrumental music. The "at loose ends" go home and divide the church just to become sectarian anti-sectarians.

The "hermeneutic" for this violence is "that's just your opinion." Let's look at the word opinion;

1. A belief not based on absolute certainty or positive knowledge, but on what seems true, valid or probable to one's own mind; what one thinks: judgment. 2. An evaluation, impression or estimation of the quality or worth of a person or thing. 3. The formal judgment of an expert on a matter in which his advice is sought. 4. In law the formal statement by a judge, etc. of the law bearing on a case. 5. Opinionativeness, conceitedness, obstinacy in a belief (Webster's New Twentieth Century Unabridged Dictionary, 1254).

The hate words clearly show that in the Post-Modern world no one can have an opinion about what any literate Bible student knows is not based upon opinion but on clear evidence.

We, like those who neither have the time nor inclination to use or participate in instrumental music in worship, are charged with being idolaters. However, our research shows that, as in all Post-Modern hermeneutics, the truth is turned on its head.

On the contrary:


Speaking of the religious ritual condemned by Amos and others we note that:

"The marzeah had an extremely long history extending at least from the 14th century B.C. through the Roman period. In the 14th century B.C., it was prominently associated with the ancient Canaanite city of Ugarit (modern Ras Shimmer), on the coast of Syria... The marzeah was a pagan ritual that took the form of a social and religious association... Some scholars regard the funerary marzeah as a feast for--and with--deceased ancestors (or Rephaim, a proper name in the Bible for the inhabitants of Sheol)." (King, Biblical Archaeological Review, Aug, 1988, p. 35, 35)

"These five elements are: (1) reclining or relaxing, (2) eating a meat meal, (3) singing with harp or other musical accompaniment, (4) drinking wine and (5) anointing oneself with oil." (King, p. 37).

"With the wine-drinking (which is the literal meaning of the Hebrew for feasting), went music and dancing." (Heaton, E. W., Everyday Life in Old Testament times, Scribners, p. 93)

"Worship was form more than substance; consequently, conduct in the marketplace was totally unaffected by worship in the holy place. Amos spoke from the conviction that social justice is an integral part of the Mosaic covenant, which regulates relations not only between God and people, but also among people." (King, p. 44).

"In pagan traditions, musical instruments are invented by gods or demi-gods, such as titans. In the Bible, credit is assigned to antediluvian patriarchs, for example, the descendants of Cain in Genesis 4:21. There is no other biblical tradition about the invention of musical instruments." (Freedman, David Noel, Bible Review, Summer 1985, p. 51).

Sermon Review: No Dispensational Distinctions:
-- David's Civil Rituals Authorizes Instruments?
---Commands esamples inferenses are OUT!
Sermon Review: Lucian of Samosata and Psallo From Attic Greek
Sermon Review: Lucian of Samosata Explained by The Church Fathers
Sermon Review: How About Psallo and Psalm 150?
Sermon Background: -- Reasonableness of Christianity - John Locke
Sermon Background: -- A Letter of Toleration - John Locke
Sermon Background: -- Declaration and Address - Thomas Campbell
Sermon Background: -- The Sermon on the Law - Alexander Campbell
Sermon Background: -- Religious Toleration demands Religious Freedom - Locke to Campbell

See a Presbyterian view. ,


Restoration Forum XII - ACU, Abilene Christian University, TX, November 1-3, 1995
Transcribed by Tom Roberts
Introduction: ....words by our brother Rubel Shelly, minister of Woodmont Hills church of Christ in Nashville, TN. And, incidentally , who has interesting competition going on campus at the same time with George W. Bush addressing the student body, I think, in another few minutes. But please don't get up and rush out at 11 o'clock. (Laughter) Some say "Trust me, we won't do that." But we look forward to hearing Rubel this morning. "Call to Action" is indeed what needs to take place.

We discuss fellowship. We discuss who we are, where we are, and perhaps,

what we now need to do is the first order of importance. Before Rubel comes, let's all pause in a word of prayer. (Prayer not transcribed.)

Rubel Shelly: Thank you Chris. Some of you have been leafing through the notebook trying to find my speech. I read Doug's letter requesting a manuscript about a week after the deadline. It is in manuscript and copies of it will be at the back as you are leaving if you care to have one. I decided not to distribute them before reading the paper because I hate to read a paper when everyone else has a copy of it. And, you know, you're three lines ahead of me. And where I grimace, or where I smile, or where I put an emphasis, you never catch that part. So I will have the advantage of having the only copy, at least for now. But if you care to have one, Doug, I think will have them at the back door just on tables on both sides.

You may want to read extensive review of Farmer's Branch "white" paper on the use of instrumental music.

We live in a post denominational world. The Protestant majority, in terms of identified church preference in America, slipped from 67% in 1967 to 56% in 1991. And the category of people with no religious preference, during that same period, grew from 2% to 11%. The same Gallop information that produced the figures I've just cited also shows that nearly one adult in four, twenty-three percent, has left the church of his or her family's heritage. Robert Worthnow (spell ?) uses an even larger statistic. He claims that fully thirty-three percent of Americans have switched from one religious affiliation to another. At the beginning of this decade, Robert Bella (spell ?) insisted that "it's unrealistic to assume that Christians today will stay where they were brought up. Both the Protestant principle of voluntarism and the modern respect for autonomous decision make it natural for adults to choose their own religious affiliation." Now you'd think that's a world ideal for those of us who've assembled at the 12th Restoration Forum. ( at Abilene Christian University ) You'd think it's a world ideal for what we're about. Our churches must be crowded. And our message must be attracting attention.

Because in a post denominational, non-denominational, no longer affiliated to traditional denominational ties, those folks are bound to be, at least, giving us a close look. We must be leading huge numbers of people to the experience of Christ in salvation. Irony of ironies, though, most of the congregations I know about in the church of Christ or the independent Christian Churches, or the conservative Christians Churches cannot capitalize on the fact that we are in a post denominational world.

This invention out of the wineskin vat implies that denominations have ceased to exist. Otherwise post-denominational is just a sillyism.

Because of his defining away "doctrine" and leaving only a tiny "core" as the "gospel," the term post denominational is also associated with post modern.

The "core" of the seven-varrying-ones is all that this writer is going to permit you to believe and use to criticize other "denominations." It is interesting with this "clearing of the decks" for a one-world-religion goes a one-world-ethic which removes your freedom to critize me for anything. This is the modern meaning of Jubilee: forgive all of the old debts and restore all of the property to the "tribes."

The Latter Rain or Post-Modern teachers believe that defending faith or worship by the Biblical text is the old "modern" or denominational method and is therefore legalism. While they allow just a "core" gospel to still be normative, the terms are associated with the view that the Bible generally is not our guide. A writer asks:

"Are you having difficulty discerning or receiving this "new revelation"? Then you have been interpreting your Bible in the "old way,"

comparing Scripture with Scripture, studying diligently to account for every jot and tittle and being careful to rightly divide the Word of truth.
If this describes you, then you belong to the "
Old Generation"
which will not enter in to "possess the land" in the Latter Rain Revival.
You may even be a
member of a denominational church, with its dogmatic confession of faith and statement of doctrine.

These legalistic forms will be relics of the past in the up and coming "Postdenominational Church." Paul Cain advises that you "dump all that carnal stuff" (doctrine) and listen to what the "spirit" is saying to the churches through the Latter Rain Prophets and Apostles, who are dispensing many "new, sacred truths." Click for More Latter Rain and New Wineskins

Rubel Shelly: Even with our in-house rhetoric of non-denominational Christianity, people on the outside don't see us as post-denominational or non-denominational. In fact, we don't act very non-denominational, either.

We tend to preach more about the church than about Christ,

The Bible collects Pharisees, Scribes and Hypocrites: they are rhetoricians, sOPHISts (serpents), singers and musicians as part of the end-time Bablonian harlot worship.

Rubel Shelly: more about our Restorationist issues than about the atonement, couching too much of what we say, I'm afraid, in historical context rather than just standing up and speaking a bold word for the Lord.

Most who come into our assemblies can't even translate what they hear because they don't know what familiar-to-us terms such as "Restoration plea, or "Old Paths," or even "plan of salvation," or "church autonomy" mean. Those are coded words us, people, and they don't communicate very well with folks who didn't start where we started.

Much less do they care to know about our fratricidal wars over the authority of elders, instrumental music in worship, whether to be having unity forums like this, or versions of the Bible.

One of the desirable FIRST ACT of the postmodern insanity is to dissociate people or create schizophrenia in them. This has the goal of destroying the OLD church or "burn down the structures" or "get a new wineskin" before you can build on the ashes. Hopefully you won't get fired before you make the changes. One of the marks of schizophrenia is to declare that what the Bible and all of history say about instrumentalists and rhetoricians is just flat wrong: they all associate musicians and actors with the NEW WINESKIN and with the Judas Bag which points to the GREEK naked and perverted song and dance they tried to induce into Jesus.

The box on the side of the flute case is the JUDAS BAG. This is the WAR against Jesus.

[edited from Perseus]
This Judas bag is from the Greek:

Glosokomon (g1101) gloce-sok'-om-on; from 1100 (speaking in tongues) and the base of 2889; prop. a case to keep mouthpieces of wind-instruments in, i.e. (by extens.) a casket or (spec.) purse: - bag.

It is made up of two words:

1. Glossa (from Strong's g1100) means "speaking in tongues" especially an unacquired one.

2. Kosmos (g2889) means the "orderly arrangement" or the "adorning" world. this is derived from (g2864 or Komizo which means "to carry off."

Kosmos (g2889) kos'-mos; prob. from the base of 2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by impl. the world (in a wide or narrow sense, includ. its inhab., lit. or fig. [mor.]): - adorning, world.

"Yet, through all there was an overarching harmony. The Greek word cosmos which we translate by universe originally meant beauty and harmony.

The Pythagoreans discovered mathematical formulae for the musical harmonies. They believed in the harmony of the sounds produced by the movement of the stars.

Therefore, they spoke of cosmic harmony of the spheres, each of which has a different sound, but all together creating a harmonious sound. If you delete the half-poetic, mythological elements from such ideas, then you can say that they had a universal, ecstatic interpretation of reality." (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, Touchstone, p. 333).

Those who KNOW the truth are FIGHTING against them but the musical contests were always to FLUTE DOWN the rational discussion by the universal symbols of sexual perversion keep moving by professional musicians. The flute case always had a BOX OR BAG attached to it: this was the Judas Bag for carrying money taken by the flute player as a PARASITE and for carrying the mouthpieces of his wind instruments. The fratricides against the rule of Jesus, then and now, were perverted priests of Dionysus. The Jews hoped that Dionysus would be their messiah. When he refused to bow down, sing or dance when they piped, they killed him. It still goes on.

Here is a painting of the ONLY message of harpists, flutists or other instrumentalists as sodomites and parasites:

[edited from Perseus]
Next, is the picture of the Judas Type with the new WINESKIN draped over his shoulder. Wine drinking absolutely required playing the flute to drive you into drunkeness or INTOXICATED WITH PASSION or in the new style worship "enraptured" or "raped" or "enthusiastic" which means to be filled with the demon gods: Enthus O mania.





Psallo speaks of DESTRUCTIVE attacks with the twangs and clangs. That is why anyone past READING 101AAA understands that Paul's direct was to SPEAK or PREACH to TEACH one another the INSPIRED TEXT. He insisted that the MELODY be in the spiritual heart and not in the LITERAL HEART which could happen in the pagan musical contests:

P. Vergilius Maro, Aeneid
She said, and from her quiver chose with speed
The winged shaft, predestin'd for the deed;
Then to the stubborn yew her strength applied,
Till the far distant horns approach'd on either side.
The bowstring touch'd her breast, so strong she drew;
Whizzing in air the fatal arrow flew.
At once the twanging bow and sounding dart
The traitor heard, and felt the point within his heart.
Him, beating with his heels in pangs of death,
His flying friends to foreign fields bequeath.
The conqu'ring damsel, with expanded wings,
The welcome message to her mistress brings.


This should give pause to those who define those who DO NOT use instruments as worship and try to teach those who DO use instruments that they are resting solely on the HIGH CHURCH principle of GOING BEYOND THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN. In the case of music the USE that which is universally associated with evil people as their STAND UP - PRESIDE OVER model of the mediator in song and sermon. Sorry about the pictures but this is the 100% PATTERNISM or PARADIM of what Paul understood about instrumental music.

The New Wineskin to Worship Dionysus: the God of New Wine [edited from Perseus]
How could you turn PERVERTED MUSIC throughout history into NEW STYLE WORSHIP without having a kind of SPLIT. Now, the fellow in the picture would accuse you of SOWING DISCORD if you tried to convince him that he shouldn't try to engage The Incarnate God of the universe in this OLD STYLE, SATANIC ritual.
P. Ovidius Naso, Metamorphoses (ed. Brookes More)
Book 4
When that Hermaphroditus felt the change,
so wrought upon him by the languid fount,
considered that he entered it a man,
and now his limbs relaxing in the stream
he is not wholly male, but only half,--
he lifted up his hands and thus implored,
albeit with no manly voice; "Hear me
O father! hear me mother! grant to me
this boon; to me whose name is yours, your son;
whoso shall enter in this fount a man
must leave its waters only half a man."

Moved by the words of their bi-natured son

both parents yield assent: they taint the fount
with essences of dual-working powers.
While busily engaged, with sudden beat
they hear resounding tambourines; and pipes
and crooked horns and tinkling brass renew,
unseen, the note; saffron and myrrh dissolve
in dulcet odours; and, beyond belief,
the woven webs, dependent on the loom,
take tints of green, put forth new ivy leaves,
or change to grape-vines verdant. There the thread
is twisted into tendrils, there the warp
is fashioned into many-moving leaves--
the purple lends its splendour to the grape.

However, while you are driving others into schizophrenia it is common for the driver to have to LEAD and be dissociated first. The symptom is that those who CREATED the problem--for a price--blame it on someone else so that they can FIX their problem--for a price. One of the components of postmodernism is schizophrenia as a desired state of being. In a religious sense it means:

Schizophrenic suffering from a form of schizophrenia characterized by FOOLISH MANNERISM and senseless laughter along with DELUSIONS and REGRESSIVE behavior. They think, for instance, that adopting the musical instruments of Lucifer the harp- playing prostitute is PROGRESSIVE. But postmodern means that people are disconnected from reality by choice. Therefore, they fall back into the archaic and build towers of Babylon manned by "priests, prophets, soothsayers, singers, instrument players and male and female prostitutes."

A desired goal to destroy the old Christendom and Bible is:

Schizophrenia: "a mental disorder characterized by a separation between the thought processes and the emotions, a distortion of reality accompanied by DELUSIONS and HALLUCINATIONS, a FRAGMENTATION of the PERSONALITY, motor disturbances, loss of basic INTELLECTUAL FUNCTIONS."

Another and similar goal of the postmodern process is:

Dissociation: is "a split in the conscious process in which a group of mental activities BREAKS AWAY from the MAIN STREAM of consciousness and function as a SEPARATE unit, as if belonging to ANOTHER PERSON. The abnormal separation of related thoughts."

Brother bashing always involved the sectarians dividing the church by adding choirs and instruments to compete with Catholics or Anglican-derived churches. If we didn't introduce instruments then war would not be started by the rise of the "legalists" just resisting being tossed out of the building they have paid for.

I don't know of a fratricidal war begun by the "laity" or even by the elders who were, in Biblical jargon, the only pastor-teachers in the local flock.

The evidence is that MUSIC has always been used to GET DRUNK WITH WINE which included being PIPED DOWN with flutes and other instruments:

Homer XIV. TO THE MOTHER OF THE GODS (6 lines). The muses were sent into hell as locusts. They were to be resurrected in the end time and they are the musicians of Revelation 18 performing what Paul condemned in Corinth:

(ll. 1-5) I prithee, clear-voiced Muse, daughter of mighty Zeus, sing of the mother of all gods and men. She is well-pleased with the sound of rattles and of timbrels, with the voice of flutes and the outcry of WOLVES and bright-eyed LIONS, with echoing hills and wooded coombes.

(l. 6) And so hail to you in my song and to all goddesses as well!

"Now Rhea, as Ceres, in Hymn XIV, is called 'brass-sounding' and 'drum-beating'. This has reference to the mystical results of certain sounds and rhythm, part and parcel of what the Hindus call Mantravidyâ.

Klang-ę , hę, metapl. dat. klangi Ibyc.56 : ( [klazô] ):--any sharp sound, e.g. twang of the bow, Il.1.49; scream of birds, esp. cranes,

to which are compared confused cries of a throng, 3.3, Od.11.605, cf. Il.2.100, 10.523;
grunting of swine, Od. 14.412; later,
howling of
wolves and lions, h.Hom.14.4, cf. 27.8;
hissing of serpents, Pi.Dith.2.18 (pl.), A.Th.381 (pl.);
baying of dogs, X.Cyn.4.5, etc.;

also, of musical instruments, Telest.4, Mnesim.4.57 (anap.); of song, S.Tr.208 (lyr.); k. aędoneios (leg. -onios) Nicom. Trag.1; k. dusphatos, of Cassandra's prophecies, A.Ag.1152 (lyr.);
........... of the scream of the Harpies, A.R.2.269. Perseus

If people would not approve of instrumental music by making it an opinion then we would never have become sectarian by adding music when a straight-line back to the Tower of Babylon proves that

not attempting to move the worshipers into the presence of God was the "truth held en toto"

This consensus view was sected-out by ursurping "pastors" such as Pendleton who bragged that he was the first sectarian in the new Restoration Movement. That is, he ignored the total rejection of music by post-biblical scholarship (even the Catholic Encyclopedia) and imposed an organ over the forceful removal of the organ (melodian) by an elder.

By what stretch of the imagination does anyone believe that they can achieve unity in a forum when those who attend have already become united in principle against the clear Biblical and historical evidence?

Rubel Shelly: Walking into an assembly where such issues are the topic of instruction or discussion must leave those people in the same state of mind as those, who, in the first century, stumbled into an assembly where tongue-speaking was going on.

That is why Peter outlawed private interpretation or FURTHER EXPOUNDING. The elders and deacons, after all, are the only Biblical TEACHING ROLES and Paul said that the elders must "teach that which has been written." THEN we won't get confused.

Why would discussing "who is on first" or discussing the ancient history of instrumental idolatry be compared to "speaking in tongues?" The Classical and post apostolic church "fathers" always connect musical worship to speaking in tongues as did Paul in First Corinthians 13 and 14.

The guilt clause means that if you preach and defend the Biblical and historical message against instrumental music, or any music calculated to lead people somewhere rather than teach them the Word of Christ or spirit, you are divisive and sectarian.

Shouldn't any preacher know that it was Paul who compared music and singing "praise songs" out of their own spirit to unsure military commands, trying to speak to God when He was trying to speak to the group (1 Cor 14:2), just speaking to the air Goddess (14:9), and speaking in tongues. His carnal weapons and lifeless instruments were denounced as charismatic tools to attract the "seekers."

Bruner, in The Holy Spirit clearly knows that most church music is "low level glossolalia." And so all of the Classical writers understood it as the soothsayer's method to make an intimate connection with the goddess (had to pay for it, too.)

Rubel Shelly: They left without being edified. They didn't know where to say the "amen" and there was no spiritual profit.

I have read those books, sermons and newsletters: sounds like "Turkey Soup for the Sick." I challenge you to take a 1 X 2 card to the next "worship" and see what you can collect about coherent Bible knowledge in songs plus sermons which, I swear to you, are really about the speakers and singers.

Edified is not exhilarated: edified is instructed, the resource of the songs is to be "the words of Christ" or "the Spirit" which Jesus said was in His Words (John 6:63). The method was "speaking one to another" and not worshiping the self-worshipping team usurping your Christ-purchased role. The result was that the "singing and melody was to be in the heart." The end was teaching and admonishing. Making people feel good was the goal of the pagan prophetess while education totally from the inspired Word was the purpose of the church assembly. If removed from studied and mind-deadening shouthing, posturing and weaving stand-up comedy with bad jokes and Chaper One, Verse 1d it might be possible for visitors to comprehend the simple teachings of God.

Exhilarated worship (Second Incarnation) is ceremonial legalism:

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art (man's trade) and mans device. Ac17:29

Enthumesis (g1761( en-thoo'-may-sis; from 1760; deliberation: - device, thought., ,

Enthumeomai (g1760) en-thoo-meh'-om-ahee; from a comp. of 1722 and 2372; to be inspirited, i.e. ponder: - think.

Thumos (g2372) thoo-mos'; from 2380; passion (as if breathing hard): - fierceness, indignation, wrath.

Philo coined the word enthus o mania which was the madness Paul warned about in Corinth.

Rubel Shelly: People who are not already immersed in our American Restoration Movement tradition typically come to our assemblies or open themselves to conversation with one with one of us because of a situation of need in their lives and they know we're religious.

If you believe that being against manipulative worship including loud singing and instrumental music is just our tradition -- as reported by a Nashville paper quoting a college president -- then we are profoundly ignorant of the Bible and church and pagan history. The Restoration Forum XII will not fix that. Preaching rather than evangelism is a later-day-restoration tradition. Singing four-part-Fanny with four different groups singing four different sets of words at four different times with four different tunes is just a latter-day tradition. Passing the basket to buy a retirement plan is counter-Paul and a latter-day tradition.

Speaking the Biblical text without instruments is no more tradition than the preacher's refusing to have the choir plugged in during his sermon.

Rubel Shelly: Perhaps there's moral confusion, maybe there's brokenness. But these people are wanting to hear gospel, "good news," that will give them hope. They want compassionate ministry to their needs and hurts. Only if they hear a message of God's presence, and deal with people whose interest in them is genuine, will they believe that they're in touch with the spiritual body of Christ.

Sounds like a Restoration Forum XII problem: It is total arrogance to define the gospel as the CORE when Jesus wanted the whole APPLE taught. The purpose of the church was not to peddle new wine from a new wineskin to seekers or to be the Pop psychologist or "fixer of bad breath" for the world. The purpose of the church was to tell the people what Christ wanted them to know. If they have a severe mental or emotional problem a pop course in 'counselling' will get you nowhere (Jimmy Swaggert preached that very well in sermons just before the motel room.) Take up a collecton and send mental problems to experts in the field and then you can just go door-to-door obeying the absolute demand of Jesus to GO, preach, baptize and then teach. Didn't commission us to hear pop psychology and call it good news.

How can meeting people's moral problems be "gospel" when all of the APPLE has been trimmed off and all you have left is:

"A core doctrine is one that,,

relates directly to Christ, ,
his substitutionary death on the cross and
our acknowledgement of him in obedient faith.

Sounds like a lot of preachers want to take away the APPLE and just leave the CORE so that they can add women in ministry, and musical worship teams to replace the Word and Christ as the One Mediator between man and God. Same CORE but a radically new APPLE full of worms.

Using similar words, both Rubel shelly and Leroy Garret define the "gospel" as the oral message which created unity before the written Scriptures. The written Scriptures are not the Words of God but the opinions and interpretations of apostles who had differing views and produced different churches. Click for More.

Rubel Shelly: The burden of my presentation this morning is to call those of us who have come from different groups within a shared tradition to Biblical action that will extend beyond a three day conference, that's rich in fellowship among people who've come to respect one another in the Lord. My primary concern is to challenge us to be about things that are Biblical. I would betray both my personal commitment and our shared heritage to offer an agenda that is incompatible with the New Testament teaching that has been given to chart our course.

While preachers are building temples and trying to restore the Levitical musical worship teams to attract a few people with unspiritual "rice," the 4.9 billion people in the world will become 9 billion people in the lifetime of some of the teams. And the preachers worry that they are not getting their share of the stray sheep and goats, the Post-Denominational "christianity" they talk about is the "incredibly shrinking man."

Too many want to "bundle" or repackage rather than go out in the cold where people don't get to "experienc" week-long "churchy" programs and have never heard even the CORE gospel.

Rubel Shelly: My comments here will be based on Romans 14:1 through 15:13. This section of Paul's most sublime epistle deals with doctrinal difference among baptized believers.

I thought it was about non-doctrinal opinion differences between meat-eaters and vegetarianism. Well "pot lucks" may make this important to those who refuse to go out into the cold.

Rubel Shelly: Before attempting to apply anything from this block of text to our situation, I'll probably need to defend using it at all. Some of us have been told that these verses relate to issues of taste and personal judgment and speculation. The things Paul had in mind here, we've been told, were mere matters of opinion. A cursory reading of the verses without prejudice leads to a very different conclusion.

In a sermon (linked above by the blue) Rubel proof-texted Romans 14 even going to the extreme of cutting verse 13 off in the middle of Christ's speech through Paul. Rubel wrote:

Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another (Rom. 14:9-13a).

The whole verse would produce a totally different interpretaion:

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this
........... rather,

that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brothers way. Romans 14:13

Judging, therefore, is to put a stumblingblock in the path of another:

Because adding instrumental music is not based on faith (but contrary to it), it is not by faith and therefore deliberately puts a stumbling block in the feet of everyone. The solution is to remove the stumbling block and not mentally condition everyone to just stumble and go on to unity in diversity.

And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people. Luke 22:2

Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. Luke 22:3

And he went his way, and communed (schemed) with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them. Luke 22:4

A root bearing poisoned and bitter fruit
is in their designs;
they walk in stubbornness of heart
and see Thee among idols,
then they set before them
the stumbling-block of their sin.

In the Dead Sea version of Psalm 41 where it was predicted that Judas would attempt to TRIUMPH OVER Jesus, it was with musical instruments:

They have overtaken me in a narrow pass (gap)
without escape
And there is no rest for me in my trial.
They sound my censure upon a harp
and their murmuring and
storming upon a
zither." Ps.41:11

Rubel Shelly: Mere matters of opinion are things that all parties concerned admit are still up for grabs. They are open to a variety of views and interpretations. They are matters on which we have no particularly strong position to stake out.

Matters of opinion are the ones where I don't really care what you think about that, 'cause, that's just a matter of opinion with me.

Everyone knows that wars have been fought over "opinions." For instance, the opinion about instrumental music and women musical worship teams to be the mediators between the "audience" and God is opinion. However, with me it is a matter of critical doctrinal difference.

Matters of opinion are where you enjoy the Grand Ole Opry in the privacy of your home but if you bring "gospel music" which is proven to be a blend of "Hillbilly, black protest song with hidden meanings and a touch of Voodoo" into the church assembly even when you know beforehand that it will divide people, break up churches, cause people to steal church property and produce sectarianism then your opinion becomes my satanic attack.

Rubel Shelly: Matters of opinion for most of us would be things like the authorship of Hebrews, or whether to have Bible classes or worship first on Sunday morning, or how many prayers to have during Sunday's assembly. These are issues on which we would agree that we're expressing personal points of view that don't have anything to do with affecting our relationship with God. So long as you're civil in expressing them, say what you want to, argue whatever case you wish. Just a matter of opinion. Who cares?

Rubel Shelly: The three issues named by Paul in these verses from Romans 14 and 15 were most definitely not issues on which people felt free to leave each other to their private opinion. Neither were they matters about which Paul said there's no definitive answer. He will say, "I give my judgment" so and so.

There are views which Paul said that we can hold to ourselves but he clearly outlawed any non-taught ritual as being part of the collective assembly or synagogue as school of the Bible.

There was a truth. There was a right and a wrong on each of those issues. The very reason he writes about them is, the folks in the church at Rome had been judging, and trying to coerce one another. Boy, you bet they mattered. An ancient version of our liberalism versus legalism controversy had taken shape at Rome. The terms "liberal, conservative and legalist" are banded about too freely and without clear definition among us. The best and most appropriate use of the terms is to indicate an attitude toward the authority of the Bible.

Chambers: Neo-orthodoxy is, in brief, the attempt by made-in-Germany theology to retrieve something of a biblical faith from the devastation visited on European Christianity by classical liberalism,

without committing to the traditional orthodox belief in the factual truth and absolute authority of Scripture.

See Rubel Shelly and the Shelly Sifter which passes only 7 facts ABOUT Jesus.

The soul of neo-orthodoxy is not the radical conclusions reached by open advocates of the system, but rather its epistemology, according to which the Bible is not, in its essence, the Word of God;

it is a human witness to revelatory "events." Since the Bible is not the touchstone of revelation,

the believer's faith does not depend on it. Scripture is sifted by the historical-critical method

to discover what the believer might choose to regard as "authoritative."

Johann Salomo Semler, the father of the historical- critical method, was in revolt against the supernatural. His dictum: "The root of all evil (in theology) is the interchangeable use of the terms 'Scripture' and 'Word of God.'

Sound familiar? Scripture, we are being taught, is the Word of God only in a secondary sense. Brotherhood teachers seek to shift the locus of faith from the Bible to Jesus, from the propositional to the Personal, from the objective to the existential, from biblical faith to mysticism.

The Bible as revelation softens to the Bible as witness; authority mellows to authoritativeness; infallibility melts to trustworthiness;

infallibility is given to mean the ability of Scripture to get the job done, not that the Bible is completely true;

The New Testament, we learn, is not a pattern for the Church, only a "norm." And so it goes. Inceptive neo-orthodoxy loosens faith from Scripture.

Rubel Shelly: Behold the Pattern.

Chambers: The university at Tübingen has always been a fountainhead of neo-orthodoxy. Tübingen has been a curse on Biblical studies since the days of F. C. Bauer and before. Tübingen-style skepticism,

introduced by the Campbell Institute, has done unspeakable damage to the Stone-Campbell movement.

The voice of Tübingen, never completely silent among the "Conservative Disciples," is increasingly becoming the voice of brotherhood leadership.

The current Tübingen hero is the Roman Catholic neo-orthodox theologian Hans Küng. His name has become ubiquitous of late. I have heard Küng represented to the churches as a modern Alexander Campbell, which is absurd.

Küng denies the Resurrection; his concept of inspiration makes him a radical disbeliever.

See Rubel Shelly and Kung. and the not yet kingdom.

The Tübingenized faith is, at its base, mystical; it does not need a true Bible. The Tübingenized faith cannot see why inerrancy should be an issue.

Since the Spirit speaks immediately and existentially as the believer reads,

God can make His will known through untrue words as easily as in true ones.

See Rubel Shelly and John York on Baptism of the Holy Spirit

In chapter 15 Paul commanded a CURE for the divisive backgrounds of most of the Gentiles in Rome. By grasping the CURE we can define the PROBLEM.

All pagans had a problem with musical "religious worship" but Paul defined a synagogue or school of the Bible.

The ONLY way people can assemble without division is to follow Jesus into His School of the Bible. This keeps us out of the "pagan houses of worship."

Instrumental music was also the STUMBLING BLOCK imposed by the old traditionalism (wineskins) of both the Orphic (vegetarian) and the Dionysics (meat-eaters, wine drinkers). Therefore, Paul also wrote Romand 15 to RESOLVE the possible musical conflict by defining the assembly as a SCHOOL of the Bible. There is no MUSIC word ever used of the synagogue or the ekklesia:

Cycle One

Cycle Two

WE then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Romans 15:1
And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. Romans 15:10
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. Romans 15:3

And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. Romans 15:11

[Please means to create spiritual anxiety or any kind of effort to artificially stimulate exhilaration.}

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning (teaching), that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Romans 15:4
And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust. Romans 15:12
Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: Romans 15:5
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost. Romans 15:13
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify (tell of His works) God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 15:6
And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another. Romans 15:14
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister (deacon) of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: Romans 15:8
Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God. Romans 15:15
And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will
(2) that the offering (bloodless sacrifice) up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. Romans 15:16
(1) confess to thee among the Gentiles, and
(1) That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles,
(2) sing unto thy name. Romans 15:9
ministering the gospel of God,
Rubel Shelly: Conservatives are people who believe that the Bible must be our final norm concerning both doctrine and practice in following Christ. Liberals don't share that conviction and believe that the Bible is something less than the infallible word of God to which we must be obedient.

Rubel Shelly and his CORE GOSPEL is one of those who discounts the total Bible by his own definition of "gospel" not shared by the Bible or church history.

Contrary to Shelly, the entire Bible, church fathers and founders of denominations believe that God commands by Direct commands, examples and inferences.

One cannot be a conservative and add that for which there is not a shred of Biblical authority; and for which there are libraries denouncing musical worship.

Rubel Shelly: Legalists believe that they have the right to judge and exclude others based on their interpretations of complex matters.

No, a legalist is one who believes that they can do WORK for which they put God under OBLIGATION to pay them a WAGE of which they can boast. Nothing is more LEGALISTIC than performance preaching or "musical teams to lead you into the presence of God" and directly repuydiating Lord Jesus Christ as our ONLY mediator.

Rubel Shelly. See how the Praise Craze is restored Satanic Paganism: People who do not have their hearts set on Lord the other six days of the week

can't "pull off worship" on Sabbath or Sunday. People who live by the world's dog-eat-dog rules until they pull into the church parking lot and who plan to return to those same rules in sixty minutes

will never know why others find worship so enthralling, exhilarating, and transporting.

Chambers: Satan is subverting our freedom in Christ by progressively liberating the Church from the Word of Christ.

Our Enemy translates freedom from condemnation into freedom from covenant.

We must reteach ourselves that the love of Christ does not subtract from His authority, that Faith requires more obedience than Law, not less (the son obeys more quickly than the slave), that obedience is still better than sacrifice,

and that exhilaration does not outvote commandment.

The outward evidence of the indwelling Spirit is neither tongues nor lawlessness. If Jesus is Lord, that makes us obedient children,

not prodigals straining to liberate ourselves from His Word.

Jesus defined a son of the Devil as one who "speaks on his own." The Pharisees repudiated the commands of God SO THAT they could teach their own vain doctrine specificially so that they could PERFORM RELIGION and "steal the houses of widows."

No, these people believe that they have a right to worship according to their beliefs without a huge world-wide effort to repudiate them by "burning down" the old "Aztec" structures in order to rebuild a Post-Modern church. The restoration of the Jubilee which Jesus fulfilled seem to be to judge and exclude those who have not subscribed to the "rules of engagement" against conservatives.

A sectarian is "a predilection either for a particular truth, or for a perversion of one, generally with the expectation of personal advantage; hence, a division and the formation of a party or 'sect' in contrast to the uniting power of 'the truth,' held in toto."

Those who introduce musical worship teams (pseudo pipe organs called organum) know that they judge those who have remained faithful as being the sectarians and legalists.

In truth, which is always turned on its head by those in expectation of a personal advantage, know that they are deliberately, with a high hand excluding others based on their interpretation of not even remotely unclear matters.

There is not a remote hint of personal advantage for a preacher to remain faithful to the Biblical teaching and two thousand years of anti-instrument opinion (yes, even in the Catholic Encyclopedia). To the contrary, rejecting instruments brings on the abuse of the majority.

The Restoration Movement was formed in an environment which excluded musical worship as a straight-line faithfulness back to the first century. This does not exclude Catholicism. This was, as is among scholars, the view of music held "en toto." Therefore, when instruments were added it was to force a sect and become sectarian.

Catholic Encyclopedia Instrumental Music
Catholic Encyclopedia Singing
Catholic Encyclopedia Congregational Singing
Catholic Encyclopedia Ecclesiastical Music No Instruments for the Pope
Catholic Encyclopedia The Mass - Restoration of Levitical Music
Musical Minister - Catholic Precentor - First Heresy

This move against the liberty Christ died to remove by adding the burden which was "spiritual anxiety created by religious ceremony" is pure legalism because they believe that they can, through the use of the most works-intensive thing people can engage in, literally jack them up the steps of the tower of Babylon "into the presence of God." This is pure ceremonial legalism which denounces the "rest" Jesus came to give as he fired those who "took away the key to knowledge" and allowed people to "take their repose" and learn of God first-hand.

Rubel Shelly: The common and inappropriate use of the terms falls out this way. A liberal is somebody who does something the speaker doesn't do, doesn't like, or opposes. A conservative is someone who does, likes and approves the same list as his own. And a legalist, therefore, is someone who objects to something the speaker does, likes or approves. In larger Evangelical circles,

the distinction between a conservative and a liberal is typically made in relation to five issues: the inspiration, by which is meant the infallibility of the Bible;

We believe that limiting faith to a tiny CORE is defacto liberal because it has no interest in conserving the total Wor of God. It says that all of the rest of Christ's revealed words are not of value in deciding faithfulness to the Word of God. Preaching or singing out of our head when the Bible points us to the once-revealed Word seems to deny the worth of Christ.

Liberal and Conservative are not just issues of infallibility of the Bible. It also includes whether you decide that a clear statement about "singing" as the result of teaching using the words of Christ can be trashed in favor of a performance worship team which is essential paganism.

Rubel Shelly: the deity of Christ;,

We believe that it is liberal to preach the later-day Catholic doctrine of the Trinity of three, distinct persons (people) in which the Father God and the Holy Spirit God ace out the Son God who is too quick to volunteer to come and redeem mankind (Joke at Jubilee 98)

Rubel Shelly: the substitutionary atonement of Christ;

The legalistic Jubilee always included the Day of Atonement through legalistic means. The "unity in diversity" with Catholics must include their understanding that the "Jubilee was always associated with forgiveness of sins" and in Y2K attending certain churches will buy you atonement.

In a sense, affirming Jubilee will put you under the "unbrella" of the movement and join you to the new "body" with full rights to express your view without, as they say around here, "being sat on the back pew."

"The death, burial and resurrection of Christ" as the CORE gospel does not include anything about the substitutionary atonement of Christ.

In another article, the preacher claims that people equate the non-use of music to the atonement!

Rubel Shelly: Christ's bodily resurrection; and his bodily return, second coming. Conservatives affirm all five, while liberals deny one or more of them.

Within our Restoration heritage, these five doctrines would likely be adequate to define the distinction between conservatives and liberals, but we've never used that list of five. We'd probably offer Ephesians 4:4-6 as our list of (7) distinctives so that we can be tied directly to the Biblical text.

This Seven Ones was announced by Rubel Shelly and has never been used by anyone to decide who is liberal or conservative. Some of us might define a hired minister who has never gone out into the only field open to the evangelist as a liberal view.

Some of us would consider trying to use music and drama to "lead the worshiper into the presence of God" to heretical.

Sounds like the CORE just got some denominational meat on it!

Rubel Shelly: Returning now to Romans, some weak brothers were advocating a no meat (verse 2), no holiday, holy day (verse 5), no wine (verse 21) position. And insisting that everyone embrace their understanding and practice. And that the whole church must adopt a policy of eating no meat, observing no holiday (holy day), drinking no wine. And they passed harsh judgment on those who viewed any of those issues differently. [If wine is fine, beer is better]

for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 1 Cor 11:21 (or perhaps just saturated)

Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not! 1 Cor 11:22

Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 1 Cor 5:7

Old yeast inheres in the word Jubilee which is a defact denial that Christ came to fulfill all Old Testament types, many of which were imposed because of Israel's "musical idolatry" at Mount Sinai:

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. Col 2:16

These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Col 2:17

To define this as authority to make "wine drinking" into a second-order doctrine and thereby give the high sign to drinkers of intoxicants ignores the large body of Scripture condemning any intoxicants and using wine as the symbol of God's wrath might be a divisive pronouncement. You might allow a weak brother who believes that the Jubilee has not been fulfilled, or the kingdom put into the human heart or who believes in drinking wine into the assembly but you would not allow him to be the dominant pastor. You would not allow him to preach.

Rubel Shelly: What Paul calls the strong brothers, on the other hand, could eat meat, celebrate holidays (holy days) and drink wine without offending their consciences.

Didn't you hear what Paul just said?

These (Jubilee, Sabbath, holy days) are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Col 2:17

The shadow under the Monarchy under which Israel "fired" God and demanded a king like the nations so that they could worship like the nations were involved in shadows.

Animal sacrifices were just shadows of the One Sacrifice of Christ.

Music was added under the gone-astray Monarchy and was never used except during animal sacrifices for dedicatory or purification rituals or to give glory to the civil courst.

Not among the Jews nor in the MOST VILE pagan temple did the singers or players ever inter the Holy Place as a carnal type of the church of Christ. No, not even to clean out the garbage.

The religious festivals were also just shadows.

Therefore, whatever people do in private, animal sacrifices and all that went with it are not related to the kingom.


Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. Rom 14:16
........... For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking,
........... but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, Rom 14:17

because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. Rom 14:18

The kingdom of God is WITHIN you: therefore, do not allow anyone to claim that their MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM can lead you into the presence of God.

The religious festivals have been abrogated. Therefore, the weak wine-drinker is not to impose his practices upon the church. The wineskin creed compares the worship assembly to the exhilaration which comes from drinking fermented, bubbling wine. This is a depand to intrude the pagan belief that wine and music represented the presence of God causing the strange feelings.

These feelins were pure drug-induced or excitement-induced "highs" and do not represent the presence of the kingdom unless you implicate the King in the wine drinking or the pseudo-wine drinking, music-produced excitement.

Paul would say that the excitement of the flesh is the sign of a weak believer and they must not impose their practices upon the church. The spiritual "high" does not come from:

eating and drinking but from

righteousness, peace and joy in the Spirit of Christ Who promised to be in our midst without being called down by a musical performance.

T. Maccius Plautus, Mostellaria, or The Haunted House (ed. Henry Thomas Riley)

PHANISCUS Really! why, yesterday and the day before, four, five, six days ago, all along, in fact, since his father went abroad from here, eating and drinking have never ceased for a single three days here.

THEUROPIDES What is it you say?

PHANISCUS That eating and drinking have never stopped for a single three days here, bringing in wenches, living like Greeks, hiring harpists and music-girls.

Refer to the Marzeah above. This was much like the Agapae which had been a polluted LOVE feast where EATING AND DRINKING included wine and the PRODUCTS of "making love." The Christian church abandoned it by Paul's direct command not to make the LORD'S supper connect to the pagan LOVE MAKING FEAST.

So, whatever you think about Romans 14 the focus on the externals of eating and drinking are not kingdom related.

We might tolerate someone wanting "exhilaration" from worship but they are the weak brothers and cannot be allowed to impose their views upon the strong members.

Rubel Shelly: Frankly, it's a bit difficult to be sure where these points of view originated. I don't think we know. Were the "weak" Jewish believers who were offended by the Greek majority? Or were the "weak" Gentile Christians whose philosophies had led them to some extreme ascetic type positions? We just don't know. That's a matter of opinion. Mere matter of opinion. Whatever the origin of their points of view, though, the problem's clear. They'd taken some doctrinal stances. And it's also clear that both groups were wrong and had sinned against each other.

The weak had tended toward legalism: judgment and condemnation.

The strong had tended toward an air of superiority: judgment and condemnation.

The doctrine, I repeat, doctrine, held by either group was tolerable to Paul. Paul said, "Now, there's a right on each of these. But it's okay for you to hold whichever position you're committed to."

Paul addresses superstition about DAYS and about FOODS: The kingdom does not consist of these things. Therefore, Paul said NOTHING about tolerating doctrinal error.

The rhetoricians, hypocrites (speakers actors) and Sophists were hypocrites because the performer pretended to be superior to the Words of Christ as it had been taught. These are all CRAFTSMEN or TECHNE who will go Back into hell with the Babylon Prostitute and her musicians:

Ophis-teia, sophistry, mantikę, of Balaam, mantikę means divination, soothsayer

Playto, Cratylus says "the part of appropriative, coercive, hunting art which hunts animals, land animals, tame animals, man, privately, for pay, is paid in cash, claims to give education, and is a hunt after rich and promising youths, must--so our present argument concludes--be called sophistry.

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon

Huperlian , Adv. beyond measure, exceedingly, sophos Eust.1396.42; to hu. Id.1184.18; hoi hu. apostoloi the 'super-Apostles', 2 Ep.Cor. 11.5, 12.11.


I. properly, skilled in any handicraft or art, cunning in his craft, Theogn., etc; of a charioteer, Pind.; of poets and musicians, id=Pind.; of a soothsayer, Soph., etc.

A doctrine is that which is taught by Jesus or an apostle who is guided into all truth by the presence of Christ the Holy Spirit.

That one side was "weak" does not mean that Paul approved of both sides.

Rubel Shelly: The doctrine held by either group was tolerable to him, but the attitude displayed by both groups was intolerable to him. Thus, Paul was grieved that harsh feelings over these non-fundamental issues were causing a rift in the church. So, he reminded them that Jesus is the Lord over all believers (verse 9), and told them that they had no right, no right, to sit in judgment on each other (verses 10 and 11).

These same issues are still matters of doctrine, not opinion, among people in our churches. We don't have many who press for vegetarianism. I've met a few. They wear fake fur coats. (laughter) I can take you to some who argue vehemently about the appropriateness of Christians observing Passover or Christmas, or Earth Day.

And I guarantee that I can cause a church fight in your congregation by putting the question, "Can a Christian drink alcoholic beverages?" on the floor.

I can guarantee that you will have one with the Holy, Incarnate God of the universe over that one. If drinking wine is a second order truth (actually promoted by the wineskin creed) then dancing naked (ala David) is a second order truth. We have heard it used as "an approved example" for Christian worship!

Rubel Shelly: And the disputants will not be content to say their point of view is a mere matter of opinion, either, and "It's fine with me, brother, if you do otherwise." Either side will appeal to the Bible and believe that it's case is right and the other's wrong.

Now maybe, hearing these verses that I'm going to dwell on from a fresh, contemporary translation paraphrase will make them emphatic to all of us. They may make us all uncomfortable. They may make us blush. They might even lead us to some repentance. Listen to them as I read from Eugene Peterson's translation paraphrase the message.

"Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don't see things the way you do. And don't jump all over them every time they do or say something you don't agree with, even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It's God we're answerable to, all the way from life to death and everything in between, not each other. That's why Jesus lived and died and then lived again, so that He could be our Master, across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other. So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I'd say it leaves you looking pretty silly, or worse. Eventually, we're all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren't going to improve your position there one bit. Cultivate your own relationship with God, but don't impose it on others. You're fortunate if your behavior and your belief are coherent. But if you're not sure, if you notice that you're acting in ways inconsistent with what you believe, some days trying to impose your opinions on others, other days just trying to please them, then you know that you're out of line. If the way you live isn't consistent with what you believe, then it's wrong. So, reach out and welcome one another to God's glory. Jesus did it. Now, you do it."

Open arms is not for open dispute. You can hold any opinion you wish as a personal opinion but this translation does not give you the authority to create sectarianism by adding musical instruments as devices to "move into the presence of God." If you construct a new denominational sect aimed specificiallly at imposing denominational false doctrine then you are the sectarian, legalist and dividing the church over that which you believe is optional but Bible students know is not. This passage in Romans prohibits adding non-essentials which divides the church just to attract another band of people.

Rubel Shelly: I think that's a powerful translation. Because of these appeals from the word of God, there are three Biblical actions that I believe men and women of good will within our two groups are obligated to take.

That doesn't sound optional to me!

Rubel Shelly: These three Biblical actions are deeds of acceptance, reconciliation and unity.

Sounds like an intellectual and ethical problem. We believe that Paul clearly define strong and weak people. The weak people might attend church but they were not permitted to teach their views about optional matters and thereby divide the church. Click Here

Rubel Shelly: First, I believe we must accept one another as brothers beloved of God. "Accept one another, then," pleaded Paul. And now I'm reading from a real Bible (laughter), the New International Version (laughter). "Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you in order to bring praise to God" (Romans 15:7).
........... We have believed on the same Christ
........... and confessed that faith
........... In the same symbolic act of baptism.

We've been put into his one body, the church in that process. Like it or not, we're brothers and sisters in Christ. That brothers differ on the millennium, the work of the Holy Spirit, church organization, instrumental music, having a glass of wine, the role of women in church leadership, and a dozen, dozen other issues does not change the fact that they're all children of God.

The Bible associates instrumentalISTS with Satan and never uses such a word for the Assembly or Synagogue of Christ. For instance, when Paul said DO NOT GET DRUNK WITH WINE he pointed to the common PAGAN, PERVERTED practice which was antithetical to MAKING MELODY in the heart:

A Bible scholar understands that Paul outlawed AUTHENTIA or female authority because it is absolutely EROTIC AND MURDEROUS. You cannot have non-sedentary women over the flock without tempting the males who CANNOT think about Jesus with the ladies parading around. Just common sense grasped prior to Rubel Shelly and band. You must grasp that the only ISTS as in flutists or harpists is not related to worship. You CANNOT justify music in church because you have no MUSICIANS other than those cast out like dung or who go back into hell.

Kat-auleô , charm by flute-playing, tinos Pl.Lg.790e, cf. R.411a; tina Alciphr.2.1: metaph., se . . -ęsô phobôi I will flute to you on a ghastly flute, E.HF871 (troch.):--Pass., of persons, methuôn kai katauloumenos drinking wine to the strains of the flute, Pl.R.561c; k. pros chelônidos psophon to be played to on the flute with lyre accompaniment, Posidon.10 J., cf. Call.Fr.10.3 P., Phld.Mus.p.49 K.

T. Maccius Plautus, Mostellaria, or The Haunted House (ed. Henry Thomas Riley)

PHANISCUS Really! why, yesterday and the day before, four, five, six days ago, all along, in fact, since his father went abroad from here, eating and drinking have never ceased for a single three days here.

THEUROPIDES What is it you say?

PHANISCUS That eating and drinking have never stopped for a single three days here, bringing in wenches, living like Greeks, hiring harpists and music-girls.

The word for drunk of filled is not always with LITERAL WINE: it might be the imagry of WINE or the NEW WINESKIN. These affect images ENCOURAGE the youth to drink wine since they have permission to do so in the fellowship hall of some churches. However, Paul was point to the fact that you cannot PEDDLE much wine or NEW WINESKINS religion without overpowering the MIND and Jesus Christ with music:

Methuôn kai katauloumenos (Drinking and overpowering with the flute.)

I. to play upon the flute to, tinos Plat.:--Pass., of persons, to have it played to one, id=Plat.:--Pass. to resound with flute-playing, Plut.

II. c. acc. pers. to overpower by flute-playing:--generally, to overpower, strike dumb, Eur.

Tinos "better than others"

Hupauleô , play on the flute in accompaniment, melos tisi Alcm. 78 ; penthimon ti D.C.74.5 ; hu. lusiôidois Posidon.4J. ; Pandionidi Luc. Harm.1 : abs., Id.Salt.83.

Methuô [methu] [only in pres. and imperf.; the fut. and aor. act. belong to methuskô]

I. to be drunken with wine, Od., etc.; m. hupo tou oinou Under your Wine
II. metaph. of things, boeię methuousa aloiphęi an ox-hide soaked in oil, Il.
2. of persons, to be drunken or
intoxicated with passion, pride, etc., Xen., Plat.

in Pass., [ton monochordon kanona] parechein tais aisthęsesi . . katauloumenon SUBDUED by a flute accompaniment, Ptol.Harm.2.12: metaph., to be PIPED down, RIDICULED, gelômenoi kai -oumenoi Anon. ap. Suid., cf. Porph.Chr.34.



The Hebrew HALAL or CHALAL which is the source of the word LUCIFER can mean "take your inheritance, prune your vines, play the flute, pollute or prostitute."



The Bible with the agreement of most of church history prior to misunderstanding Zwingli understood that as God had the right to put HIS FULL DEITY into the body of Christ composed of 98% water He also had the POWER and claimed to put His power in water baptism as the MEANS by which we REQUEST A holy spirit or a clear conscience so that we are CO-PERCEIVERS of His Spirit Word.

If you preach that the epistles are just divided opinions of divided apostles and strained through philosophy and their own personal "agenda" then you can repudiate the role of Baptism and adopt the Baptist believer's baptism which is ancient pagan baptism.

Review of Max Lucado's Creed on baptism:

Part One: The Thief on the Cross Saved without Baptism! No: Christ had not yet preached to the pre- Cross faithful nor ascended into heaven. 12/28/02

Part Two: Baptism is just a pledge that you have been saved? No: Baptism is our REQUEST TO God; not OUR guaranteeing OUR faith!

Part Three: Salvation by Trust Only or Prayer Only? 12/5/02 See how the GA, Shelly, Lucado Trithism as A Family of Gods leads naturally to despising the counsel of the human Jesus and how Baptists Baptism denies that Christ came FULLY in the flesh.

Part Four: Romans 6: Baptism DOES NOT save?

Where in the world does a preacher get the supernatural knowledge to know what is in the Mind of God? Except from hearing the Mind of Christ. Preaching the "now but not yet kingdom" is a premillennial view. This view holds that Christ tried to establish His kingdom, got defeated by Satan, hightailed it back to the safety of heaven, and will -- now but not yet -- give it another try. This is neither liberal nor conservative but just dumb heresy.

Paul made the role of women in church leadership pretty clear. To claim that Paul just picked the 'wrong creation account" is to claim that Paul was not inspired. These excathedra pronouncements are clearly out of the head and therefore liberal. Click Here

If you want to hold and practice that false view then it is ok with me. However, if you lay down the law that I must affirm you by agreeing and meeting in your congregation then you are sectarian and divisive. And if you spend the Lord's money trying to impose that view on others then you do not hold it as an apinion.

Paul defined for the leadership a term which means: "No, never under any circumstances be near consumers of wine." And he outlawed women in a "non-sedantary" role even as he outlawed most men in a "preachery" role unless they were inspired.

Rubel Shelly: Second, I believe we must not only acknowledge one another to be brothers in Christ, but be reconciled to one another. Without abandoning or compromising the first order truths of the gospel, that is, issues that relate directly to the meaning of Christ and his atoning death, we must stop labeling as apostate and

withholding or withdrawing fellowship over second and third order truths.

For me, a second order truth in the New Testament includes those discipleship issues such as drinking wine versus teetotal.

And third order truths would be group distinctives such as instrumental versus acappella music.

A Cappella is not "congregational singing." A cappella was created by the Pope when he returned from France to Rome leading his emasculated teams with him. Because it was UNLAWFUL to use instruments in the presence of the Pope or in the Sistine chapel, the pope organized the castratos into an ORGANUM form of singing: "an organic pipe organ."

The HYPOCRITES Jesus condemned was a class much like the Pharisees: they were public speakers or rhetoricians, actors, singers or musicians. None of them contributed to the society and were therefore called parasites.

Cithari-zo , a-re, v n., = kitharizô, to play on or strike the cithara, Nep. Epam. 2, 1; Vulg. Apoc. 14, 2..

Same meaning in Greek

Parasitor . a-ri, v. dep. [id.] , to play the parasite, to sponge: parasitarier,

Kithara the Lat. cithara (whence guitar), a kind of lyre or lute, Hhymn., Hdt., attic: --it was of triangular shape, with seven strings, Eur. Cf. ki^tha^rizô

Latin with similar definitions

Paras-tor . a-ri, v. dep. [id.] , to play the parasite, to sponge: parasitarier, Plaut. Stich. 4, 2, 54 : parasitando pascere ventres suos, id. Pers. 1, 2, 3 .

Of those who still claim to be priests and Levitical singers and demand the tithe for preachers now that Jesus paid the price:

Parasit-os , ho, one who eats at the table of another, and repays him with flattery and buffoonery, parasite, Epich.36, Arar.16, etc.; name of plays by Antiph., Alex., and Diph.; peri Parasitou, title of work by Luc.: c. gen., kenęs p. trapezęs AP11.346 (Autom.) : metaph., ichthus ęn p. (v. opson) Luc.Lex.6.

II. of priests who had their meals at the PUBLIC EXPENSE, Clitodem.11, Polem.Hist.78.

These parasites could not hang on without flattery and being stand- up commedians:

Parasi-tus , i, m., = parasitos, lit. one who eats with another; hence,

I. In gen., a guest (pure Lat. conviva): parasiti Jovis, the gods, Varr. ap. Aug. Civ. Dei, 6, 7; App. M. 10, p. 246, 35.--Hence, parasitus Phoebi, a player, actor, Mart. 9, 29, 9.--

II. In partic., in a bad sense, one who, by flattery and buffoonery, manages to live at another's expense, a sponger, toad-eater, parasite

The craftsmen or TECHNE used external means in religion. They with the MUSES or musicians and all of the intrumentalist would go back into hell with the Babylon Whore who was defined AS LUCIFER who went into hell with his/her harps and harpists.


I. the Muse, in pl. the Muses, goddesses of song, music, poetry, dancing, the drama, and all fine arts, Hom.: the names of the nine were Clio, Euterpe, Thalia, Melpomene, Terpsichore, Erato, Polymnia or Polyhymnia, Urania, and Calliope, Hes.,

II. mousa, as appellat., music, song, Pind., Trag.:--also eloquence, Eur.:--in pl. arts, accomplishments

Similar word:
, hę, singing, chanting
chant, choral song, melôidias poiętęs Pl.Lg.935e , cf. 812d; lullaby, ib.790e: generally, music, Phld.Mus.p.12 K.

Mousôidos , on, ( [ôidę] ) singing, making music, Man.5.143.

Mousikos (g3451) moo-sik-os'; from Moĺusa , (a Muse); "musical", i.e. (as noun) a minstrel: - musician

Rev 18:22 The music of harpists and musicians, flute players and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again. No workman of any trade will ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.

Paul warned of the Corinthians that they would be seen as MAD:

I. of or for a
soothsayer or his art, prophetic, oracular, Trag.
2. hę
mantikę technę, manteia, the faculty of divination, prophecy, Soph.; so, hę mantikę alone, Hdt., Plat.
II. of persons, like a prophet,
oracular, Plat.:--adv. -kôs, Ar.

Greek word with similar meaning:

Hespi-epeia , ( [epos] ) fem. Adj. oracular, prophetic, S.OT463 (lyr.).

Prophęt-ikos , ę, on, oracular, prophetic, anęr Ph.1.515 ; logos ib.95, 2 Ep.Pet.1.19; nous Ph.Fr.66H. (Sup.), cf. Luc.Alex.60.

Technę 1 [tiktô] (The Tuba- Cains, Jubals, Koresh, Artificer, Craftsmen of Revelation 18 in service of the holy whore)

When Jesus planned to heal the dead girl the MINSTRELS or "musical worship team" jumped in to do their soothsaying or magical act on behalf of the DEAD girl. We know that in the Marzeah practiced in Amos with music was a "musical festival WITH and FOR dead ancestors." Therefore Jesus cast them out "more or less violently" as one "ejects DUNG."The flute players were ministrels who were eternally noted as traveling minstrels whose duty included prostitution and sodomy:

Auletes (g834) ow-lay-tace'; from 832; a flute- player: - minstrel, piper.

The flute player was to PLAY YOU DOWN or get you "intoxicated on passion." They were called PARASITES.

In Plato Ion:

Socrates And if I am not mistaken,

you never met with any one among flute-players or harp- players or singers to the harp or rhapsodes who was able to discourse of Olympus or Thamyras or Orpheus (mythical inventor of music), or Phemius the rhapsode of Ithaca, but was at a loss when he came to speak of Ion of Ephesus, and had no notion of his merits or defects?

Socrates Do you know that the spectator is the last of the rings which, as I am saying,

receive the power of the original magnet from one another?
rhapsode like yourself and the actor are intermediate links, and the poet himself is the first of them.

Through all these the god sways the souls of men in any direction which he pleases,

and makes one man hang down from another.
Thus there is a vast
chain of dancers and masters and undermasters of choruses, who are suspended, as if from the stone, at the side of the rings which hang down from the Muse.

And every poet has some Muse from whom he is suspended, and by whom he is said to be possessed, which is nearly the same thing;

for he is taken hold of. And from these first rings, which are the poets, depend others, some deriving their inspiration from Orpheus, others from Musaeus; but the greater number are possessed and held by Homer.

Of whom, Ion, you are one, and are possessed by Homer; and

when any one repeats the words of another poet you go to sleep, and know not what to say;

but when any one recites a strain of Homer you wake up in a moment, and your soul leaps within you, and you have plenty to say;

for not by art or knowledge about Homer do you say what you say,

but by divine inspiration and by possession; just as the Corybantian revellers too have a quick perception of that strain only which is appropriated to the god by whom they are possessed,

and have plenty of dances and words for that, but take no heed of any other. And you, Ion, when the name of Homer is mentioned have plenty to say, and have nothing to say of others. You ask, "Why is this?" The answer is that you praise Homer not by art but by divine inspiration.

The MUSIC word is NEVER used in the Bible except in relationship to secular drinking parties or the end-time Babylon Whore and his/her 9 MUSES. He/she is Apollo or Abaddon or Apollyon the founder of the Seeker Center at Delphi.

Sounds like problems deeper than I can grasp. How in the name of holy conservatism can a for-hire preacher be so underemployed that he has the time to be so aggresive in trying to force things like the denial of baptism (Max Lucado, Jubilee 97), using psychological force (violence) to make people practice lifting holy hands, laying on of holy hands, viewing the ladies around the Asherah Poles (Jubilee 98), and a host of other things?

I find that the activities of one small congregation gives me more fellowship than I can tolerate and more needs for ministry (the old term for preacher who is not located evangelist) than any single person can begin to serve. Do I really have to go to the Baptist church, confess, fellowship and worship with them? Aren't we just too expansive?

Rubel Shelly: First, second, third order truths, and then I might even acknowledge a fourth order of truth. A fourth order of truth is those mere matters of opinion.

Wine, women and song is a first order truth to me. I don't care what others do but to insist that I am divisive and guilty for teaching the clear words of Christ is dogmatic and sectarian.

Rubel Shelly: And of course, the truth on each of those is each of those as I see them. But to stay with first, second, third order, that's not to say that some things in the Bible are true and some are false. It's to say that everything in the Bible is true, but some of those truths are more important than other truths.

When Jesus said, "Don't get involved with the body or flesh: My Words are Spirit and Life" (John 6:63) He seems to have failed to outline acts like a Thesis of first order, second order and third order and then opinion." Doesn't this new definition deny Christ and His power to preach more than the "first principles"?

Rubel Shelly: Paul, in Romans 14 and 15, said, "Look, there's an absolute bottom line, fact of the matter about the right and wrong of each of these. But," he says, "back off and leave each other alone to draw some conclusions that aren't the same. Draw your conclusion in good conscience. Live with it consistently. Don't try to coerce your brother. Don't condescend to your brother."

No, that's a falsehood. What Paul said that the ONLY way to GLORIFY GOD with ONE VOICE was to teach with "that which is written." In Ephesians this was "spirit" which is the Words of Christ (John 6:63) and in Colossians 3 "the Word of Christ" Who IS the Spirit. That excludes wine, women, sexual perversion and music which all went with the OLD religion of both the vegetarians (Orphics) and wine-drinkers (Dionysians).

Then why make a new sect our of denying sectarianism? Why make it a first order principle that I have to worship with people with whom I disagree. Is this the guilt clause to try, as they did with McGarvey, to keep him from being "divisive" by refusing to worship with instruments?

It was the musical group which forced its opinions upon the others. And when the churches which had never been musical from their Biblical and historical foundation, it was a musical organization which attempted to "evangelize" and force music. This was what broke the fellowship between the musical and non-musical churches.

Rubel Shelly: First order truth, that's truth that's critical truth.
........... That's core truth about how one comes to know Christ.
second and third order truths, ,,
........... one need never come to a view on in order to be a Christian.

On Pentecost, those people understood enough first order truth to accept Christ. They didn't have a position that day on whether to support Herald of Truth out of the treasury.

They understood the meaning of BAPTISM. They also had a TRADITION or CULTURE of music as pagan worship. They also understood that when the LOUD NOISE began for animal sacrifices that THEY as "civilians" or not part of the TEMPLE STATE staff THEY must be outside the CLOSED gates.

They understood, along with Jesus, that the MINSTRELS or PIPERS who tried to do their magica on the dead girl to evoke mourning to appease the spirits that MINSTREL ment prostitute or pervert who PLAYED many roles.

Sounds like a somewhat violent put down of those who knew that the ship of state was sinking when their feet got wet and didn't have to wait until it got blown off course and they were in water up to their neck under the Navigators now Navigating the Winds they were blowing up in the first place. Sounds like my wife's experience with a recent auto mechanic: "I busted your heater but I will fix it for 300 dollars."

Rubel Shelly: They hadn't had time yet to debate whether or not now that we are Christians we can ever have a glass of wine with dinner.


They didn't discover levels of truth through debate, did they? They had been Jews all of their lives and therefore they understood about those who "would prophesy to you about beer and wine" for a price or just for the beer and wine. They knew enough that Peter said "this is that" and they understood.

All of the Romans understood the wine, music and homosexual rituals to "bind the flesh and spirit together." Paul knew that if any old musical opinions raised their perverted heads he could solve it by making the assembly a SCHOOL of the Bible and not a theatrical worship center called "church" named after Kirke or Circe the holy whore Paul warned about.

The "new wine in new wineskins" gets clearer and clearer. How else could the kingdom and gospel be compared to fermenting wine which was the universal symbol of evil when Jesus spoke about the "water of the Word" and Paul spoke about "milk." When we accept evil for ourselves we suddenly become non-sectarian and want freedom for everyone.

The Words about Jesus: For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. Hab 2:14

The Warning to the WineSkinners: Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbors, pouring it from the wineskin till they are drunk, so that he can gaze on their naked bodies. Hab 2:15

You will be filled with shame instead of glory. Now it is your turn! Drink and be exposed ! The cup from the Lord's right hand is coming around to you, and disgrace will cover your glory. Hab 2:16

A second angel followed and said, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries." Rev 14:8

They knew that wine or any leaven was taboo for Passover and they probably knew that only the "preachers" believed and taught that one should get so drunk at Passover they couldn't tell the difference between Joe Blow Preacher and Jesus. They know that Kings and Princes did not drink wine and that a woe was pronounced on anyone who would feed it to others -- usually to see their nakedness, real or emotional.

Well, we just don't know, do we? We know that the Jews understood that street preachers or musical street performers on the day of Pentecost were normally drunks looking for a handout.

Rubel Shelly: Wouldn't have occurred to them to bring up the matter of what kind of music we're going to have when we go to church Sunday.

Everyone knew that the MUSIC word was not related to worship but to perverted religious festivals. Pauled defined the assembly with words related to the SYNAGOGUE. The synagogue or ekklesia which was for HEARING EVIDENCE would just think that any form of MUSIC brought into the "county court" woud prove that the person is DRUNK WITH WINE and should be cast out, as Jesus cast out the musical team, on the dung heap.

These literate people already knew that music was always for the civil temple state and never for congregational worship.

Never used on the Sabbath for "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment." The Sabbath was for REST to quarantine the people from the ancient Babylon forms of high places or temples. There, they engaged in modern-like "worship rituals" but God wanted the people to rest, read and discuss the WORDS of God.

Knew that music was for animal sacrifices for dedicatory or purification rituals.

Knew that they were not "not in church" but inside the gates which kept the people out.

Knew that worship was performed by the civil leaders and the clergy.

Knew that when they heard a great, crashing sound they had better fall on their faces.

Knew that the Levites were added as Israel's burden and were to keep the "congregation" out of God's symbolic presence in the reassigned Tabernacle.

Knew that NO singer or instrument player was ever permitted into the Holy Place as a type of the church or body of Christ. Knew that if they went into the type of CHURCH they would be executed.

Knew that the Feast of Tabernacles had become a pagan fertility ritual and that Jesus didn't go up because He knew that the jubilators would try to murder Him during the opening, musical festivities.

Knew that the temple was the "church" of the civil or other bigshots and Sadducees.

Knew that the "congregation" went to the synagogue.

Knew that there was no contemporary form of our singing.

Knew that they didn't sing sentimental, effeminate poetry.

Knew that if they saw a musical team with uncovered women it was probably, as Solomon warned, prostitutes trying to "lead the customer into the presence of the pagan gods."

Knew that if they saw male musicians in public they were always gender-confused.

Knew that they never used musical instruments in their assemblies.

Knew that you cannot listen to instruments and think or learn.

Knew that only Levites and Priests were permitted to make a loud sound as part of their service which was HARD BONDAGE.

Knew what Josephus knew.

Josephus knew the linen-draped Levitical singers had caused Israel's slavery once; that they wanted to get on the team again; and that they seduced the leaders by claiming that the musical teams would bring honor to the ruler just as smooth, theatrical performance reflects in the face of the preacher. Josephus again warned that they would dry up the Word and Israel would be destroyed again. The Levitical singers were proposing a Seeker form of temple ritual.

Rubel Shelly: This means that people on both sides of these issues who have judged and condemned each other, whether from a legalistic or superiority posture must repent of our past behaviors and be willing to admit that we've both been wrong. And consciously undertake a more Christlike treatment of one another. We're free to hold and practice our points of view but we are not free to judge one another any longer.

The "serpent" in the garden of Eden was NOT a snake. He was the MUSICAL ENCHANTER called the NACHASH used by Lucifer (ZOE) to commit adultery and sodomy to cause the fall using music. All Biblical uses of "instruments" tell God: "We will not listen to your words." Why should anyone repent of remaining faithful to the entire Biblical history proving that music is used to DIVERT people's mind away from the Word of God?

I don't plan to repent about seeing baptism as operative as a way to "accept the will of God for my life." I don't plan to repent about not attending where instruments are played. Don't even plan to repent for turning off my hearing aids when the spit flies during congregational shouting. Don't plan to repent for refusing to participate with wine drinkers. Paul commanded of the elders "don't go near the drinking bouts where the wine might not even be intoxicating." Don't plan to apologize for gagging when I see the world lost and preachers in a bonded-buddy fellowship all over the world (almost 40,000 at PK Atlanta, 1996).

Where is all of that brotherly love for legalists? Legalism adds body rituals in order to move the worshipers into an ascending ceremony to make exhilarating contack with God. Legalism is to use psychology and human potential to try to fix people's medical or mental problems while ignoring the Words of Christ. Superiority means "I have the fix for your problems in Nashville." Sectarianism was always behind the addition of music in the belief that they could worship God -- they baptized instruments, you know.

Those who judged and condemned, created sectarianism by adding instruments and trying to evangelize churches to join the Missionary Society and add instruments. I have never heard this "legalistic superiority posture" recently unless it was by a "parrot" having listened to a sermon, say 20 or thirty years ago when people got so enlightened that they gave up on the Bible and began to sell human opinion. Note by Clicking Here and by Clicking Here.

Rubel Shelly: Third, I believe we must begin to practice unity within our long-fractured fellowship. My appeal here is not for organizational unity but for mutual respect and understanding. We can converse, worship, pray, and minister together. We can encourage one another.

We can be each other's confidants and counsellors. (Is that male bonding?) We can practice hospitality. Why, within our common commitment to congregational autonomy, no one could even propose a meaningful form of organizational unity for us to adopt. For people who've watched these Restoration Forums with the fear that we're trying to create such an organizational unity, let those fears forever cease.

Bible students know that MUSIC was introduced by Satan to BLEED OFF worship due to God. It is self-evident to the sane that you cannot give heed to Jesus and His Word and the PERFORMERS at the same time. Bible students of the history of music in paganism and church history have no INTENTION or LUST to assemble with anyone who destroys the church as SYNAGOGUE. Why would anyone very literate pay to attend classes on HOMER tolerate a professor who teaches or singers who sing about themselves?

How can one WORSHIP to affirm the people who FRACTURED the brotherhood and produced ancient, pagan MUSICAL SECTARIANISM? WHO WANTS TO? Let them silence the instruments whose name and association throughout the Bible are connected to Satan or Evil.

Jesus Christ and Paul fractured the church into local assemblies within the community. Jubilee is a defacto proposal for organizational unity where you come to Nashville to learn how to "worship" with music and drama or theatrical performance, how to import a Community Church form and sell books and Sunday School stuff.

People who pay the bills are too busy for belly-button contemplation. Why, if I need counselling, I could probably find someone close to home. If I need a confidant -- pretty much outgrew that one -- I still have Jesus.

Rubel Shelly: I'm pleading for nothing more than the sort of unity one Church of Christ (non-instrumental) has with another Church of Christ (non-instrumental). Nothing more than what one independent Christian Church has with another independent Christian Church. Frankly, the Woodmont Hills Church of Christ has more in common with the Donnelson Church of Christ in Nashville than with, say, the Jackson Park Church of Christ in the same city. I mean no more disrespect by telling you that than by telling you that the Highland Church of Christ in Abilene has more in common with the Preston Road church in Dallas than with the First Christian Church in Nashville. I'm just talking about, what in business, we call "networking."

But, we slipped off the slope of the issue: the point is that INSTRUMENTALISTS told a judge that if instruments were used AS worship then it would be sinful. The Bible associates music with Satan because it PIPED DOWN or silences the Word of God. Lucifer's CARNAL WEAPON or LIFELESS INSTRUMENT is musical worship because he cannot attack the SPIRIT through any other means. However, the INSTRUMENT of the Living Word (God) is His Word put into the minds or spirits of mankind who are a little lower than the angels.

That is the universal testimony and the view of all DOCTORS OF THE LAW prior to the postmodern slip into a loss of contact with reality.

Those who do not use instruments have not ever used instruments as the WORKS OF HUMAN HANDS to try to worship a Spirit God. The Word "worship" takes place in the human mind and not is highly skilled craftsmen, techne, rhetoricians or soothsayers all know as parasites.

If Shelly wants to AFFIRM everyone then that is ok with me but he cannot speak for those who use the first ammendment and the freedom Jesus died for to worship WITHOUT noise makers.

I told you about the motives.,,

Rubel Shelly: Yet in terms of actual shared experience and networking, the Woodmont Hills Church of Christ has more in common with First Christian Church in Nashville than with the Jackson Park Church of Christ in Nashville.

We can be reasonably sure that all PRO INSTRUMENTALISTS who repudiate the functional role of Baptism have more in common with christian churches than those who think that the logic is just strange and has to lie about every Biblical example of music.

That is not because the First Christian Church agreed to any "church of Christ" views. It is because, as in all ecumenical movements, the Word based systems always get sucked into the performance worship based systems. I just have to laugh when educated people believe that they are meeting on equal terms when they, as in the story of Genun (Jubal) have just been defeated and can never, because of pride, return to the old paths of non-exhilarating worship.

Rubel Shelly: Just as congregations within the framework of our two brotherhoods have greater or lesser fellowship with each other at a purely practical level, so many congregations may, across those boundaries, have greater or lesser fellowship with each other. We need not reject God-given opportunities for fellowship out of the fear that some schismatic brother or paper might attack us for accepting them.

That is what we all knew! How can one be a schismatic in these terms and still be a brother? Why isn't the schismatic brother one of those weaker brethren whom you should see as a teachable mission point? It is purely because the "schismatic" will not join the SECTARIANS who added the "non-essential" instrumental music and theatrical performance guilds knowing beforehand that he was dividing the church, splitting of a new sect and doing it "spite of hell."

Where do people get time for all of those buddy meetings? Why does the "leaven spore" of my church not grow and satisfy and do the will of Christ without feeling the God-like urge to judge that some other church is more unschismatic Christian? I just can't possible see how one "going into all the world" has time to camp out and establish fraternal order with those who became the sectarians by adding music and women clergy when Paul seems to have outlawed either male or female performance roles unless they were inspired in Corinth.

Rubel Shelly: Now, lest those three issues of acceptance, reconciliation and unity be left too vague to be helpful, I'll dare to define some specific behaviors, projects and interactions that are possible within such a framework.

First, many of us pray, both individually and with one another for God to show us a way out of division into unity. We believe it can't possibly be wrong for us to pray for the same thing Jesus prayed for in John 17:20, 21.

Sounds like a preacher problem or a Jesus problem: Why do you suppose Jesus wasted three years training the Apostles if all they needed was a CORE?

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. John 17:8

I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. John 17:14

Isn't it a deeply psychological problem to feel the need to be affirmed by everyone so you can go "dunkin donuts" with them? The full gospel has always been divisive and if it produces "peace, peace when there is no peace" it is another gospel.

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. John 17:17

As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. John 17:18

And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. John 17:19

Because the apostles were to go into all the world, Christ was not concerned about establishing nation-wide unity forums where all of the for-hires have time to leave their flock.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; John 17:20

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. John 17:21

Now, nobody is gonna get mad if you just preach the CORE so that everyone who was ever swept through the Restoration Movement (Mormons? Wesly Pentecostals?) can fit into a new wineskin so that we can all drink wine and preach a wineskin gospel and kingdom without offending one of these little ones.

Offenses come when you faithfully preach the APPLE which consists of everything the Invisible God of the Universe revealed through the ONCE Incarnated God of the Universe! What caused the Jews to be offended? Baptism, of course. And assemblies not in the doomed temple, of course. And failure to keep condemned feast days, of course. And failure to worship in the New Moon festivals, of course. Failure to pay the temple tax or tithe, of course. They really got mad when they played their fertility music and Jesus refused to sing and dance. He was not very non-sectarian, was He.

How can preaching the CORE bring the sanctifying Spirit Christ put into all of His Words (John 6:63)?

Rubel Shelly: Second, we can have conversations with each other. Some of these conversations may deal with points of concern and disagreement. Many more of them, though, need to deal with the even larger points of agreement and joint affirmation. Although our history contains many more of the former than the latter, (history of conversations about our disagreements, getting together to debate instrumental music, for example,

ALL of the "unity forums" are between the Disciples and those who already agree with the disciples. It comes as no surprize that out of these "neutral" participants ALWAYS comes sowing of discord using "infiltration and diversion" to turn the non-instrumental church into an instrumental church using praise teams as the "Camel's foot."

Why would we debate second and third order truths such as drinking wine and instrumental music? If one can introduce the legalistic work of a pseudo-pipe organ with women overseers moving the audience into the presence of God as mediators how could we even worry about instruments. If it is a debatable issue then why would we condemn churches of Christ as rotten and destructive (decadent and deliterious for you city people).

Why don't we just leave everyone alone and do our work in our "field white unto harvest." If the world more than doubles in the next half-century, won't Nashville do more than double? What are you doing to preach the Word to them without worrying about where they get baptized or join your group and subscribe to your collection plate so that you can build a new temple symbol of civic-pride?

Rubel Shelly: rather than getting together to talk about some things we might do on the mission field, or to better communicate the Restoration ideal in this culture), I think that's a mistake that needs to be corrected. As in marriage counseling, a pair'll have better success in dealing with its points of tension if there's first a deep and unifying appreciation of its commonalities. If a couple comes into my office warring, I don't start in by saying, "Give me the list and let's duke it out." I say, "Can you tell me how you met? Can you tell me why you fell in love? Can you tell me about your wedding day? Tell me about the birth of your children." It seems to me there's a great deal of common sense in that, that we've not applied in our family discussions.

Third, we can engage in joint ministry with each other. We've been speaking at each other's conferences and lectureships on a limited scale and that practice seems not only to have been generally well received but to be growing.

Many of the groups already do that and probably no one ever suggests silencing the organ and the clanky-clank piano in the interest of unity. When churches of Christ speak of being ecumenical they always have to abandon their principles to unify with the others. This doesn't sound like cooperation but "a hostile takeover" and a very dumb sell out.

We know of churches of Christ which have added organs or their human-synthesized equivalent, the musical praise team, but can't really find a Christian church which has put the organ out. Get the picture? This is not unity: it is a person who has converted to a new religion and is urgently trying to take other (legalistic) churches with him. Why not just get off the dole and find a church which uses instruments rather than being sectarian and judgemental against all of those old legalists and trying to take over their property?

Rubel Shelly: Frankly, more of us have been invited out of the acappella churches to be a part of lectureships and teaching settings at Christian Church schools and congregations than the reverse.

Don't they invite those who will agree with them and also attract crowds? Aren't you flying under the skull and crossbones hidden carefully?

A Cappella was the castrated french "team" the pope brought with him from "Babylonian Captivity" in France. Because as the "vicar of Christ" the Pope clearly understood that musical instruments MUST NEVER BE PLAYED in his presence.

Therefore, the A Cappella "musical worship team" was USED in the Sistine Chapel for the Pope and high church authorities.

Rubel Shelly: You have to understand where the two groups are, I suppose, even politically, to understand why that's so, but that's beginning to change. We're teaching at each other's schools now, we're doing guest lecturing and offering courses. That's good. We've written for each other's publications. Several of us in this room have written for, say, "One Body," or "The Christian Standard." And some of you have written for "Image" or for "Wineskins." We're writing a New Testament commentary series together. Under the leadership that Don DeWelt gave to that project in a generous financial endowment that was provided to it, we're doing the New Testament commentary series together now, with about fifty-fifty authorship. The books are already being produced. They're coming out and that has to be good for both of us.

Don DeWelt wrote the book which promises supernatural magic from singing the Psalms.

Heard about one rare church going instrumental after going musical worship team and learning how to lift holy hands at Jubilee and the Zoe movement. Held a course on the Restoration Movement. A black student heard that to be against instrumental music is to be racist! That was because the division over instrumental music was a racist-non-racist fight. That, of course, is a faleshood. Came out of Pepperdine But those ecumenical professors will play the race card because they don't need to be Biblically or historically literate to hold down a "chair."

Rubel Shelly: The Woodmont Hills Church of Christ, the church were I preach in Nashville, and First Christian Church of Nashville are sharing a worship facility.

You see, it rubs off, doesn't it?,,

Some of you already know that. Others of you, perhaps, would be shocked to learn that about three and a half months ago, the acappella Woodmont Hills Church of Christ sold its building. And we had to give possession of it about 45 days later. And we were not just the church of the homeless, we were the homeless church. And we started looking around for possible places to have assemblies for 18 to 24 months, the length of time we suspect it's going to take us to draw plans that are only now being started, to build on a property that we're not even due to close on until 12 days from today. This is not going to be just a two or three week deal. We looked at about 37 different options. As it turned out, the most practical option that was received warmly by both churches was a shared use of the facility of an independent Christian Church on Franklin Road. They'd accommodated us by moving their Sunday evening service a bit later and we have use of that building on Sunday from 1 to 6 and we have a 1:30 and 4:15 repeat of the same worship hour and Sunday school in between at 3. We do our mid-week assemblies in there on Thursday. But not only that, we're sharing and exchanging the uses of personnel.

The Purpose Driven Cult of the Community Church has a plan. First, you gather as many of the old traditionalists as you can. You go lite on the anti-instruments until you raise enough money from the old people to BUILD A NEW THEATER. In time, you let the cat out of the bag and the honest givers find out that they have been part of a SCAM. After the hostile takeover the church begins to turn their school of the Bible into a "theater for holy entertainment." Slick as a slug's underbelly, eh?

Rubel Shelly: We co-hosted a seminar by Lyle Shower (spell ? Perhaps, Lyle Shaller, a commercial change group much like Willow Creek). We will do some things together in the immediate future with regard to hosting other events of spiritual significance for our two churches that will allow us to affirm our relationship to be a positive one. We intend for these 18 to 24 months not simply to be a time of landlord and tenant relationship, but a time of healing between these two congregations, so that we can henceforth work together in productive ways and not be obstacles to each other. We believe that's against the will of God.

You probably noticed that none of the Acapella phylosophy rubbed off on the musical church. That is the way it is and why we are warned about "walking, standing and then sitting" with others. The flesh-appeal always rubs off on the spirit.

I would let a Catholic group use "my" building if I thought that I could, through experience, accustom them to not having an organ in the "sanctuary."

It is no credit to say that we havent added instruments when you have added musical worship teams! Restoration Forums will not restore the church in all of the communities outside of the Nashville, Dallas and Abilene circles.

Rubel Shelly: Fourth, we can link arms (hand in hand) to stand against the real enemy of the body of Christ (schismatic or decadent churches of Christ by changing their name). To my brothers and sisters who use instrumental music, let me tell you to your faces that I don't regard you as my enemy.

Wow! I am sure that this is some relief! I also love those whom I defeat!!

Chambers (Christian Church) continues: From Day One the Church has been forced to choose between conflict and compromise; before he could get out of town, Paul's enemies subverted his doctrine in the churches he founded.

It's been that way ever since. We must not get the vapors over doctrinal confrontation, as if some strange thing were happening to us.

Our congregations, on the average, are no better or worse than the churches in A.D. 65; and where did we get the idea that our generation of the Church has within it some natural quality that makes apostasy abnormal?

Modern Christians are irrationally critical of theological debate. They have the feeling that controversy in the Church is anomalous and tacky.

I am regularly scolded by brethren of fine-tuned soul, warned that the Spirit of Christ equals quiet civility.

Polemics are out of fashion. Trends go unchecked because believers care more about manner than content; syrupy error passes ahead of straight-spoken truth. Confrontation, however, is the business of the Church, right along with love and evangelism.

To deny this is to condemn Peter and John and Paul - and Jesus.

Since the Church can ultimately be counted on to stray, we have reason to anchor on what the Bible says, not on what the Church is believing and doing.

Rubel Shelly: Satan is our common enemy. He's the bad guy. And I refuse any longer to allow him (incarnated as schismatic brothers) to divert me from confronting him by fighting with you. It's been a great diversionary tactic that he's used. I'm looking for ways to affirm and fellowship and glorify God in company with his children wherever they are found. And I know where a big block of you are.

Chambers: Third, Satan is a predictable liar, i.e., we can foresee not only that he will seduce the Church, but the form that seduction is likely to take.

Our Enemy keeps raising his primordial question: "Hath God said?"

The rebellion he incites among the children of God, moreover, can be expected to wear the mask of extravagant piety,

by which he eases the Church away from divine authority.

We must not be surprised when noisy god-talk drowns out the quiet voice of sound teaching.

Satan or Lucifer (Zoe) tried to seduce the angels in heaven to steal the worship from God. God cast Him out but he showed up in the garden of Eden as a "harp playing prostitute." He seduced and sodomized using the influence of music.

Therefore, the Bible the Ancient Babylonian documents, the Bible and all of church history KNOWS that Satan USES music to steal the worship form God. When the performing preacher preaching out of his head and the "praise team" sings their own songs it needs no further proof that Satan has silenced the Word of God and STOLEN the worship due Him.

In the Babylonian tablets much older than the warning of Moses, Inanna stole the powers or MEs by getting Ea, the patron god of music, involved with NEW WINESKINS. Here are some of her powers:

He gave me the resounding musical instrument.
He gave me the art of song.
He gave me the art of the elder.
He gave me the art of kissing the phallus.
He gave me the art of prostitution.
He gave me decent into the underworld.
He gave me ascent from the underworls. (7 gates of hell)
He gave me the cult of the prostitute.
He gave me the holy tavern.
He gave me the kindling of strife.
He gave me counseling.
He gave me heart-soothing.

See Enoch to see why ten-thousand angels will come to defeat the end-time Babylonian religion (Rev. 18).

You gotta watch out for people claiming to FIGHT SATAN with Satan's musical "worship."

Is this Fraudian or what? Pop scholars have read just enough about the Monarchy period to believe that God demanded musical instruments to glorify Him. One "pastor" claims that all musical instruments are "the Devils' instruments. However, God saw how wonderful they were at calling in the "seekers" and took them over for His own worship!?

Well, it is a fact that God tolerated instruments during animal sacrifices because Israel rejected Him and worshipped like the nations. They were past redemption and the Law was to keep them from polluting God's name and getting by with it.

What will this "Satan" look like? Won't he look like an angel of light? Why would h flaunt himself as a judgmental legalist? Won't he promote fellowship with anyone and everyone? Is there a dissociation here somewhere?

On the other hand, all traditions and the Bible attribute musical worship to Satan:

"But as to this Genun, Satan came into him in his childhood; and he made sundry trumpets and horns, and string instruments, cymbals and psalteries, and lyres and harps, and flutes; and he played on them at all times and at ever hour. -- Second Adam and Eve 20:2

Ole Jubal (rhymes with Rubel) went out and organized mixed choirs to seduce the Sethites who were faithful to the Word off the Holy mountain:

"In pagan traditions, musical instruments are invented by gods or demi-gods, such as titans. In the Bible, credit is assigned to antediluvian patriarchs, for example, the descendants of Cain in Genesis 4:21.

There is no other biblical tradition about the invention of musical instruments Freedman, David Noel, Bible Review, Summer 1985, p. 51)

"Where kithara playing and dancing and hand clapping find place, there is the beguiling of men, the corruption of women, the sorrow of angels and a feast for the devil... Today, to all appearances, they sing psalms as God ordained, and tomorrow they will eagerly dance as taught by Satan. Today they contradict Satan and tomorrow they follow him... Let it be far from you that today, as one loving Christ, you listen attentively to the reading of the divine Scripture, and tomorrow as a criminal and a hater of Christ you listen to lyre playing." (St. Ephraim, quoted by Green, p. 37-38).

They lie about Clement of Alexandria but you can read his story here.

Rubel Shelly: Fifth, we can model non-denominational Christianity as a witness to the larger religious world. In this post-denominational era, the implementation of our rhetoric about unity in the gospel, liberty in matters of interpretation, and charity in all things should get a sympathetic, even an excited hearing.

Chambers: Sixth, sound doctrine is worth the struggle.

If we will not contend for the Faith, it can only mean that we are not convinced that New Testament Christianity is of any great worth.

It may be that we have little appreciation for the infinite difference between truth and error.

Those who care about the truth care about it intensely simply because they care about it at all.

A man can be relaxed about trends away from truth only if he is, at heart, an unbeliever.

The watching denominational world is also upset because of the take-over by feminine and effeminate control. How can you seduce spiritual people out of a Baptist church when you probably cannot compete with commercial religious pagents. I read more than a few web sites who are just embarassed about the whole end-time effort to join commerce (more attenders, books, cds) with religion. The Nashville papers have their own "jubilee" about division in churches of Christ created each year by Jubilee.

Rubel Shelly: The reason it's not is simply that our rhetoric is not matched by the way we actually treat each other.
Neither of us is willing to,,
........... affirm as brothers and sisters in Christ people
........... who've not been born anew of the water and the Spirit.

Jubilee 97 denounced the value of the water part!

Neither of us is willing to consider some sort of open fellowship policy toward the larger religious world. And neither of us is willing to pursue a merely pragmatic unity that owes no allegiance to the absolutes of the Christian faith. We both have rock solid convictions about the gospel and we are united in the intellectual and existential affirmation of that gospel. It's time for us to proclaim that gospel boldly while simultaneously living a unity in Christ that honors and preserves our historical distinctives, minus the judgments and condemnations. I need the experience of living in healthy tension with people around me whose points of view challenge my own, whose thinking is not a carbon copy of my own, but whose love for God and scripture is equally as emphatic as my own.

I need brothers and sisters who challenge me on my views about divorce and remarriage, instrumental music, the role of women, and the value of programs such as Christian Jubilee or the North American Christian Convention.

As iron sharpens iron, our vigorous and respectful challenges of one another's points of view will keep us intellectually honest and spiritually sensitive.

As groups of people gravitate to leaders in churches that have particular emphases about one or more of these subjects, they will be known, at least in part, not only for their faith in Christ, but also for their free or restricted use of females in church life, or for their use or non-use of instrumental music, or for their primary or non-primary emphasis on compassion ministries. The distinctiveness of the resulting congregations need not make them ineffective as witnesses to Christ. Our congregations no more have to look alike and act alike than individual Christians have to look alike and act alike. Neither do they have to alienate themselves from each other.

Then why spend 1/4 of a million dollars on Jubilee 98 trying?

As surely as the latter happens, though, that alienation, our witness to Christ both separately as congregations and collectively as a fellowship seeking unity,

it is diminished significantly, because, people,

we are as sectarian as anybody dared to be if we let something like instrumental music make us into what we have been, a totally fractured fellowship.

The secting out or creation of a sectarian group was the result of and considted totally of those who created the division by adding the instruments.

Those who refuse to follow like Mary's Little Lamb are not, can never be, the sectarians because they remain faithful to the view held en toto for 2000 years (even by Catholic scholars) and there was no personal, vested interest in not adding instruments. To the contrary, not adding instruments hurt the non-sectarian group. Therefore, by definition of sectarianism, the musical gropu is sectarian while those who refuse to join the sect are not.

Calvin noted that if an error is held long enough, such as the Catholic priesthood, then it becomes "sanctified" and those like himself who left Catholicism was branded the heretic and the Sectarian.

However, he knew that this was core-based dishonesty at work.

This is the Second Incarnation "those being invaded turning arround and attacking the invading army" or the guilt clause which is a hostile, deceptive attempt to place the secting brand on those who refused to join the new sect. This is not honest but, lordy, it is effective -- as slick as boiled okra but twice as disgusting. Don't miss the guilt clause.

Rubel Shelly: In our quest to recapture the ground the American Restoration Movement originally staked out for itself, may God help us to learn four things. Number one:

Respect without reorganization.,,

The modern movement begun in 1987 to facilitate "instrumental music and a wider role for women" now confesses that there is no urge to restore the first century church. Rather, the urge is to restore the charismatic effort which also plagued and slowed the work of men like Campbell. This is the meaning of restoring the Restoration Movement rather than restoring the church Christ died to purchase.

The Post-Modern or Post-Denominational effort is not to depend upon the "assigment" of Jesus in the first century but to get a new assignment for our new wineskin.

Rubel's group has sected itself into the Family of God movement with "churches of Christ" an addendum. His group uses The Willow Creek Association to supply worship resources. The Zoe wing teaches the "female instructing principle" for Jubilee dittos. As I write, Seattle is undergoing the trauma of a take-over by performing artists. Probably a blend of Jubilee, the Zoe Group and Promise Keepers.

Rubel Shelly: Both our brotherhoods stand firmly on the doctrines of historic orthodox Christianity and our congregations are filled with people who simply want to know Christ, honor him in daily living and live with him in Heaven forever. We can affirm that much about each other and live out the practical implications of such an affirmation. That sort of respect says nothing about needing to create a denominational type organization that would represent an organizational form of unity.

This goal is always hindered when the goal of the post-denomination church is worship. Worship is defined as a collective effort facilitated by professional theatrical performance. Jesus said that worship is in spirit (in the mind) and according to truth (His Word). This facilitated worship defeats the goal of listening to Jesus.

Rubel Shelly: We have histories, and we carry baggage, and we have wounds. We are who we are and there's no reason for either of us to try to manipulate or coerce the other to a point of view that is not authentic to our sincerely held convictions. So, Romans 14:13: "Let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way."

Musical worship, female pastors (teams) and musical mediators are an ancient stumbling block.

The goal of the Musical Worship Facilitator which means "gradual manipulation to take people where you want them to go" is one of the strongest forms of manipulation or coercion toward a musical church.

Rubel Shelly: Number two: May God help us to learn cooperation without compromise. Both our brotherhoods are firmly opposed to unbelief and compromise of the gospel. We've separated from each other over second (wine) and third order (instruments) issues because we've not kept the cross as our primary focus.

In that, we had been guilty of idolatry.

If I cannot worship with an instrument and brother Joe cannot worship without an instrument then how can you compromise just in order to get me and Joe together at one time and place? This view is the failure to "plant and water" and takes on God's role of "giving the increase." I meet with 300 and I don't need any more noise.

Non Instrumental music has never been called idolatry. All pagans believed that the carved instruments were the homes of the gods and the god's mouthpiece. People still believe that music can "lead you into the presence of God" and that the "team" becomes the platform upon which God lands. This is truly the meaning of idolatry and one cannot endure it and still focus upon Jesus and the cross when the theatrical performers are standing squarely between me and God -- and demand that you look and listen!

Those who tried to make their idols speak to them always believed that the gods or spirits lived inside of the musical instruments:

"Yobal (Jubal). (Note: Jubilee or "a blast of trumpets" is from Jubal which means "to lead with triumph or pomp.") and Tobalkin (Tubal-Cain), the two brethren, the sons of Lamech, the blind man, who killed Cain, invented and made all kinds of instruments (or metal weapons) of music.

"Yobal made reed instruments, and harps, and flutes, and whistles,

and the devils went and dwelt inside them.
When men blew into the pipes,
the devils sang inside them,
and sent out sounds from inside them. (Note: the "familiar spirit" of the Witch of Endor was an old "lifeless instrument" made of an old
water or wineskin).

"For nonliterate peoples, music often serves purposes other than entertainment or aesthetic enjoyment. Certain wind instruments are closely associated with the supernatural, and their sounds connote powerful magic.

Australian Aborigines, for instance, identify the sound of a bull-roarer with the voices of supernatural beings;

for the Plains Indians, the same sound signifies an awesome natural phenomenon, such as thunder.

Wind instruments are often among a group's most important ritual objects, and in some cultures they are specially venerated. The Kamairua Indians of the Amazon rain forest
........... keep their giant flutes (three to four feet long),
........... wherein spirits are believed to dwell,

in a special shrine where they are worshiped. The flutes and drums of New Guinea are similarly housed and worshiped. "wind instrument" Britannica Online.

Pagans always used instruments because the "gods" lived inside. The early church could not use them until they were baptized. How else could they bring you closer to god than they themselves are?

Rubel Shelly: I know that's a strong charge, but I believe it's correct. It is nothing less than idolatry to let something other than the cross define our relationship to one another in Christ. It is nothing short of idolatry to let something other than the cross be the basis of our passing any form of judgment against one another.

But, we can say that the use of MUSIC is totally condemned for the Bible literate. We can say that ADDING instruments created a SECTARIAN musical group. We can say that in many cases those who objected were SILENCED or told to "get over it or get out." Jesus didn't build a pagan, musical WORSHIP CENTER but a Synagogue or school of Christ. Those who assemble (synagogue) to speak as the ORACLES OF GOD use the Bible. It is not possible to meet with those who repudiate the Bible by NOT teaching it "as it has been taught." We can worry about the DOMINANT PASTOR and refuse to participate with those who REPUDIATED THE ATONEMENT by organizing the Jubilee as a massive, deliberate SOWING OF DISCORD.

It is Bible 101aaa that if the musical performers getting a message from God (out of their own spirit according to Paul) are on the bamah or high place or platform performing to specifically swamp my vision and hearing then they are defining our relationship. Therefore, we agree that any form of performance is idolatry. It is not idolatry if I turn off my blessed hearing aide or go to the library until "this too shall pass."

Well, we just added several things to the cross above. How about: "fraticidal, traditionalist, legalists, superiority posture, unChristian, schismatic, Satanic, sectarian, and idolatrous people, irrelevant, junk."

The Core Gospel is sold as just the cross. We wonder why you would need a Ph.d in order to preach just "Jesus died, was buried and was resurrected"? Well, we know that everyone uses the cross as a crutch to define their new world order and the "law" to define others. However, this is a denial of the cross and the gospel which we speak to here.

Rubel Shelly: Give me the freedom to follow scripture to the best of my the best of my the best of my understanding. My understanding is not infallible. The conclusions I'm going to come to are not incorrigible. But give me the freedom to do the best I can. And please don't judge me as a legalist because I prefer not to adopt a practice that you embrace. Give me the freedom to follow scripture to the best of my understanding. Please don't judge me a liberal because I can embrace a practice that you prefer not to adopt. Romans 14:10: "You then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat."

I agree, and wouldn't it be wonderful if we could ignore all of the hurt and division and "offending of these little ones" by the assumption of supreme power to collect people from all over the world to use praxis (practice) to condition people into "lifting holy hands, laying on of hands, using vocal and instrumental bands and promoting female ministers?" It would be just fine if they went home not knowing how to Navigate the churches into winds of change even if you have to use dishonest brinksmanship, deception and a denial of the power of the members.

However, these sectarians "Hit you in the nose and kick you in the groin and label you as mumblers and trouble-makers if you yell 'ouch' and create disturbance in the church."

Rubel Shelly: Number Three: May God help us to learn appreciation without antagonism. No two persons agree on everything. Even my wife's wrong about a few things. But all of us tend to feel threatened when somebody disagrees with us, and to get defensive. (In the Second Incarnation this becomes "Those being invaded turn hostile and mount an attack.") Those two facts, that we don't all see everything alike and that we all tend to feel threatened when we are disagreed with, those two facts, set up the potential for serious conflict.

I thought that I might make it through my alloted time without seeing a major effort to divide churches of Christ when earlier we had been the fastest growing group in the nation. The preachers learned to negotiate and intimidate and liquidate and Jubilee will probably go down as the worst pre-calculated division in the Restoration Movement. Without Jubilee I know of no other far-reaching effort to conform everyone to a new "paradigm" after rejecting the old "pattern."

Having learned the Second Incarnation lesson well, those who become defensive turn around and attack. They will, true to the well-taught pattern, see those who yell "OUCH" as the trouble makers who just needs better atheletic protection.

Rubel Shelly: Spiritual immaturity will embrace conflict and see victory as the goal. Spiritual maturity can allow honest disagreement and see preserving the unity of the body of Christ in love as the goal. Romans 14:14, 15: "As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you're no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating, destroy your brother for whom Christ died." Appreciation without antagonism.

Amen. I am waiting! But since the functional level of the church is no larger than the local congregation why should I embrace conflict. However, Paul said that the KINGDOM is not about external things. In the next chapter Paul defined the SYNAGOGUE of Christ. Christ did not PLEASE Himself and the assembly should not PLEASE ITSELF. This means to EXCITE THE SENSES. Jesus called this the LADEN BURDEN which He destroyed to provide REST. In the Synagogue of Christ we can GLORIFY god with one MOUTH and ONE MIND when we "speak that which is written." This is the same "not-singing" concept of Ephesiand 5 and Colossians 3.

Rubel Shelly: And then Number Four: May God help us to learn fellowship without fear. Acknowledgement, cooperation and unity must always rest on our mutual commitment to the core doctrines of the Bible.
........... A core doctrine is one that,,
........... ........... relates directly to Christ,,,
........... ........... his substitutionary death on the cross and
........... ........... our acknowledgement of him in obedient faith.

Like Wow! Sounds like a well-stripped CORE. How about just teaching the APPLE and not trying to force-fit everyone into your own wineskin which allows you to have that wine at home? Rubel's Core is just seven facts ABOUT Jesus. Nothing else should prevent FELLOWSHIP! But, that repudiates the Teachings OF Jesus and OF the Bible writers whom Rubel denies are inspired.

Chambers (Christian Church): Seventh, those who, in the quest for unity,

reduce the content of required faith to an uncontroversial minimum ("Jesus is Lord") are not, as they believe, elevating the living Christ over dead legalism.

See the Core Gospel.

They are, in fact, accusing God of delivering a word revelation so obscure and ragged that no reasonable deity could expect men to agree on what the words mean.

I affirm that doctrinal truth is affirmable. I reject the subtle persuasions of cultural Hegelianism,

i.e., that truth is a never-ending process, that all conclusions are tentative, that truth resides in the hunt, never in the discovery.

If we're not sure about true doctrine, let's study until we are convinced. If we have learned the truth, let's take a stand on it.

In either case, let's have no more of this foot-shuffling nonsense that says we can't be too sure about doctrine.

There is a difference between intellectual humility and weak-mindedness.

Rubel Shelly: Although we have no basis for spiritual fellowship with unbelievers in actions that are distinctly Christian, such as the Lord's supper. What in the world would it mean for me to eat the Lord's supper with an unbeliever? That's a distinctly Christian act of fellowship.

What about stripping Baptism of water at Jubilee 97 and making salvation depending on calling God: "Father." I'm gonna try that on Bill Gates! Jesus told the Apostles to preach the Gospel and


teaching what JESUS taught.


Therefore, an unbaptized person is NOT a Christian by Biblical definitio.

Rubel Shelly: Or evangelistic outreach? That's a distinctly Christian behavior that I can only participate in with someone else who is also part of the body. Well, while we have no basis for spiritual fellowship with unbelievers in actions like that, we do have the basis for such fellowship with each other.

And we can learn, not only to eat the bread and drink the wine together as the affirmation of our being one body, but we can put missionaries in settings together.

The WINE was part of the Babylon- imposed Passover. Esther tricked the rulers so that he got drunk and got killed. The Jewish passover continued with four cups of highly intoxicating wine so that even little children were forced to get blinding drunk. However, the Jews poured the FITH cup of unfermented wine which was not consumed. This was reserved for the forerunner who would usher in the Messiah. Therefore, Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper with the Fifth cup of unfermented wine. The Scriptures called it THE FRUIT OF THE VINE. Those who suggest that Jesus ever consumed intoxicants intend to mar His image.

Sounds good, Jubilee! Why not do that very thing by taking along your begging bag and preach where the gospel has never been heard rather than try to collect a miscellaneous group to listen to your praise team and Word-evacuated sermon. Did you know that no needy person from Gambia can get to Jubilee 2000? Don't think that wasting the money on a guru exposure to the worshippers will qualify as evangelism.

If you do it and someone tries to stop you I will help you out.

Rubel Shelly: I have, in foreign settings, off the soil of the United States, sat with groups where people from acappella, instrumental and non-Sunday school churches work together in such unity that unless you saw the pay checks that they got from back in the States to support their work, you'd never know that they were from different traditions.

See some of the subversion being sent to the Ukraine.

I'll bet they use instruments!

Rubel Shelly: There is something about being in an environment where the enemy is a little bit clearer than where over here we have the luxury of parsing the nuances and fighting about some things that are ultimately irrelevancies. There is something about being in that setting that clarifies a lot of this junk. And we wept together that day, that if we were back in Texas or Tennessee or Arkansas,

we couldn't be doing what we were doing there, in sharing the gospel together with unbelievers.

Bunk! People in these states share the gospel without even accepting a social drink. It is possible to spend a bit of time even in France and fend off Wine. They are not offended, respect you and just try to slip a bit of wine into your fruit.

Just don't believe it! Sounds like more excuses which give you brownies by bashing churches of Christ. In my inventing - engineering background, the most ignorant man in the plant could come by and tell me what was not working!

Rubel Shelly: So Romans 14:5, 6: "May the God who gives endurance and encouragement
........... give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow
........... Christ Jesus so that with one heart and
........... ........... one mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Wouldn't you think that a bright person would say: Wow, Paul seems to say that the way to glorify God is to sing with ONE VOICE and ONE HEART where "unison" speaks of unity. Pretty hard to do that with a choir or an organ or a theatrical performer.


Before Paul wrote that in Romans 15 he developed a Christ-like environment for the ASSEMBLY or ekklesia or synagogue of Christ. The synagogue, beginning in the wilderness and later more organized HAD NO PRAISE service. If the beginning verses were visible it is hard to believe that discoding music would fulfill this command.


Wherefore it is fitting that ye should run together in accordance with the will of your bishop, which thing also ye do. For your justly renowned presbytery, worthy of God, is fitted as exactly to the bishop as the strings are to the harp.

Therefore in your concord and harmonious love, Jesus Christ is sung. And do ye, man by man, become a choir, that being harmonious in love, and taking up the song of God in unison, ye may with one voice sing to the Father through Jesus Christ, so that He may both hear you, and perceive by your works that ye are indeed the members of His Son.It is profitable, therefore, that you should live in an unblameable unity, that thus ye may always enjoy communion with God.

WE then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to PLEASE ourselves. Rum 15:1

In at least three Psalms, the AFFLICTION or OPPRESSION upon Jesus is connected to SINGING and or INSTRUMENTS. "There was never a PRAISE SERVICE in the synagogue" which began as "the church in the wilderness with Playing instruments and 'making a joyful noise before the Lord' outlawed." This singing and instruments was the TRIUMPH OVER to be used by Judas on Jesus and it was the WARRIOR'S BATTLE CRY something like the REBEL YELL.

PLEASE in the synagogue sense would have the preacher READ the text and then sit down and have ox dialogued. You simply don't need a DIRECT COMMAND to have the uncommon decency to use REVERENCE and GODLY FEAR for that short period of time so that everyone can LEARN the psalms and then return home, teach them and use them for "speaking to yourself" to further teach yourself the words of CHRIST which are Spirit and Life: your musicians words ARE NOT.

MUSIC in the Bible PLEASES THE CARNAL SENSES. It FEELS good because it creates a drug high. Music knows NO OTHER FUNCTION than to entertain the mind

PLEASE IS: Aresko (g700) ares'-Jo; prob. from 142 (through the idea of EXCITING EMOTIONS). It intends and has always created war:

polemos 1 battle, fight, war, Hom., etc.; polemon airesthai tini to levy war against another, Aesch.; p. thesthai tini Eur.; p. anaireisthai, kinein, egeirein, kathistanai, epagein to begin a war; p. poieisthai to make war, -- opp. to p. anapauein, kataluesthai to put an end to it, make peace, all in attic

AIRO (g142) awry; a prim. verb; to LIFT; by imp. to take up or AWAY; fig. to RAISE THE VOICE, KEEP IN SUSPENSE the MIND

Airô [epic and poet. aeirô q.v.] [distinguish arô from a_rô, contr. of aerô.]

III. to raise up, exalt, Aesch.:--of passion, to exalt, excite, hupsou airein thumon to grow excited, Soph.; airein tharsos to pluck up courage, Eur., etc.: Pass., ouk ęrthę noun es atasthalięn Simon.

IV. to lift and take away, to remove, Aesch., etc.:--to take off, kill, NTest.

B. Mid., with perf. pass. ęrmai, to take up for oneself: to carry off, win, gain, kleos Il.; aethlia (of horses) id=Il.; kudos Hom.:--hence simply to receive, get, helkos aresthai Il.; also, deilian arei wilt incur a charge of cowardice, Soph.

II. to take upon oneself, undergo, carry, bear, Il., etc.

2. to undertake, begin, polemon Thuc., etc.; phugęn aresthai, Lat. fugam capere, Aesch.

III. to raise up, sôtęra tini Soph.: of sound, airesthai phônęn to raise, lift up one's voice, Ar.

Aoidos ( [aeidô] ) singer, minstrel, bard,

2. fem., SONGSTRESS, poluďdris a. Id.15.97 ; of the nightingale, Hes.Op.208; of the Sphinx, S.OT36, E.Ph.1507 (lyr.); aoidos MOUSA (muses of Revelation 18)


II. as Adj., tuneful, musical, aoidotatan ornitha E.Hel.1109 (lyr.), cf. Theoc.12.7, Call.Del.252, IG12(2).443.

This is why Jesus died to remove INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC:

Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28

The burden laded by the outlawed Doctors of the Law and priests was "spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals." Nothing produces such anxiety worse then loud music. Jesus didn't tell you to COME to a church which has used PROGRAMS and PERFORMANCE to make the assembly into a SLAVE LABOR CAMP: you are SLAVES OF THE WATCH TOWER where the watchmen are watching themselves and ENJOYING a trumpet quartet: until their brain kicks.

Labor is:

Hortizo (g5412) for-tid'-zo; from 5414; to LOAD up.. figurative to OVERBURDEN with CEREMONIAL or SPIRITUAL ANXIETY.

And it is the TITHE to pay for something for which Jesus Christ DIED. You tithe and you repudiate the SACRIFICE of Christ and when you MUSICATE you repudiate the WORD of Christ by the GIFT of Lucifer or Satan "the harp-playing and singing prostitute."

Phoros (g5411) for'-os; from 5342; a load (as borne,) i.e. (fig.) a tax (prop. an individ. assessment on persons or property; whereas 5056 is usually a gen. toll on goods or travel): - tribute.

That is why THERE IS NO LAW OF GIVING in Paul's Letters. Rather than PLEASE OURSELVES Paul's direct command is that we please others for his edification which is EDUCATION.

Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. Rom 15:2

For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. Rom 15:3

Wow! as they say: Paul is going to command Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs which were WRITTEN AFORETIME and not NOW.

Wow, Again! Paul defines edification as LEARNING or TEACHING.

Wow, Wow! It is the SCRIPTURES which give us comfort and not lusting after singy-clappy "worship teams."

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Rom 15:4

Now, you CANNOT be likeminded in a one another form if ONE is the theatrical or rhetorical or musical PERFORMER an the OTHER is the audience who dares not even object.

Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: Rom 15:5

Christ wouldn't tolerate the MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM but "cast them out more or less violently as one ejects DUNG."

Wow, again! You CAN all speak the SAME THINGS if you follow the PATTERNISM of "teaching that which has been taught " one to another rather than haveing dominant leaders whose own glory depends on a MUSICAL MEDIATING TEAM making everyone feel good.

That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 15:6

Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us, to the glory of God. Rom 15:7

Now, if you look carefully this is another way of saying SPEAK or TEACH or PREACH to one another with Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual Songs which are ALL "that which is written." And he fails to mention EXTERNAL MELODY here because in Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3 the MELODY which is a warefare term is IN THE HEART where we give the glory to God.

But they have a motive: we must Hegel or Machiavelli or Hitler the group using PRAYERFUL BRINKMANSHIP or SPIRITUAL ANXIETY making everyone fear for their salvation if they DARE speak of NOT using instruments again. Shelly used the Aztec paradigm of burning down the old structures and rebuilding during the 52 year and 52 weak JUBILEE.

Chambers: I don't trust these fellows who, of late, have been reading over the grave of the brotherhood.

I fear they want the movement certified dead

so they can apply for the commission to resurrect it to their own vision.

We may have lost our nerve; we have not lost our reason for being.

And the preacher who has little or no experience in strong doctrine has no right to declare that the Restoration Movement isn't working and call for a new plan.

You know, in the Classical writers and church Fathers, "speaking with one voice" meant unison singing. In "melody" there is no harmony. Doesn't Paul to the Romans sound lke Paul to the Ephesians:

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. Ephesians 5:18

Speak (preach) to one another
........... with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.
Sing and make music
........... in your heart to the Lord, Ephesians 5:19

Neither one of these sounds like theatrical performance! Doesn't this also sound like Colossians 3?

And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Colossians 3:15

Let the word of Christ (spirit John 6:63) dwell in you richly in all wisdom;

teaching (preaching = no music) and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,

singing (Ado = no music) with grace in your hearts to the Lord. Colossians 3:16

So the unity which the speaker demands from Romans 14 and the no judgments passed based on verse 13a is proof-texted to prove that we should all "walk hand in hand without seing eye to eye" and not pass any judgments however wrong people may be and however grievous the sectarianism created by the addition of instruments.

However, the Roman conclusion is identical to the Ephesian and Colossian texts which discuss group singing of the inspired Word of God to one another as a way to teach and admonish one another.

Paul said that where this unity exists within a given congregation in Rome it demands that they follow Christ which is to teach what He taught. There must be one heart or spirit uniting the people and they must speak with one mouth. The result would be to glorify God by repeating what Lord Jesus Christ taught.

Now, you are not filled with the spirit (Word of Christ) if what spills over is your own composition in song and sermon.

There is no teaching and admonishing while music is played any more than a preacher teaches or speaks while the band plays.

Therefore, the unity, tolerance and non-judgmentalism can exist only among a body of believers who can say the same thing with one voce of unity because what it is saying is repeating the Words or Spirit of Christ.

Paul absolutely passed judgment on the Ephesians who drank wine because it would automatically lead to the wine-induced, music-induced charismatic propheying (singing with instruments) universally practiced in the idolatry out of which many had just come. Therefore, declaring practices wrong is not forbidden and strang as it seems, the wineskin music of the pagans was explicitely excluded by defining using the Word of Christ to teach and admonish and the "singing and melody" could be in the heart because external melody meant to "grind to bits" like the sop Jesus fed Judas.

Rubel Shelly: Our post-denominational world is waiting for someone to offer what we've always claimed to preach. Our post-denominational world is waiting for someone to step up and offer them a real, live, working model of what we've always claimed to preach. My question is, "Will we serve it, or will God have to raise up somebody else to take the message that we once claimed as our own?" But I guess the larger and more important question is, "Will we honor Christ, by offering them that lived model?"


The old PATTERN to be replaced by the NEW PARADIGM dredges up something as old as Lucifer, the harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden and Nimrod's Musical Worship Team at the towers of Babylon.

The Post Denominational church is defined much like the Post Modern church. Post Modernism is always based upon the perceived failure of organized or "secular, seeker" religion and looks for a rescue from some new gimmick. The ACU accomodation has been fulfilled at Jubilee 1999 and will be furthered at Jubilee 2000 led by Rubel Shelly.

Notes from: ( Abilene Christian University, Restoration Forum XII).

See a more recent assault against non-musical churches.

Post Modern Index,,

Music Index, ajubilee 2000,

Home Page,

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