Rubel Shelly on Deborah

Rubel Shelly and John York will elevate Deborah to a proof-person in order to repudiate the teaching of Paul which prevents speaking or non-sedentary roles for women. This is consistent with their claim to the right to "take liberties" with the word to construct a Narrative to fit your own personal culture. However, Deborah was a civil leader who shamed the male leadership into military action. As a "prophetess" she sang and "made melody" in an outward boast form. She points us to the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai and heaps praise on Jael who murdered Sisera in his sleep after offering him her hospitality. That fits the modern pattern of tricking churches into a new style worship and organization as NEW as Nimrod at the towers of Babylon. The pro-musical groups boast about "infiltrating and diverting." How better to steal the church houses of widows or CLAP or drive nails into the hands of Lord Jesus Christ Who was musically mocked by the same warrior Levites treating Him like Beliar or Beel-zebub.

ZOE in Phoenix: The Gold is not in the superstition hills but He is the God Who made the Hills. Zoe takes a question and turns it into a direct command: "Shall I look to the hills? No. I will look to the God who made the hills." Restoration of the most ancient pagan belief about God. 

Musical prophesiers expanded in Ezekiel The ZOE connection. Zoe was known as the BEAST and "the female instructing principle." She took the brainless little "jehovah" and "Jesus the male Logos" and infused human intelligence into them. Then Sophia and Zoe made them form Musical Worship Teams to worship who? why Sophia and Zoe. You cannot have a performance preacher or musical team unless they have declared to adopt the Lucifer (Zoe) principle to bleed off worship due only to God.

Rubel Shelly: Women in the assembly

Rubel Shelly and John York PRETENDING that the elders want a RETEACHING because their is a MINORITY of people who want people in ministry. However, in this sermon you can see that THEY HAVE ALL MADE UP THEIR MIND. Click Below for their ALREADY ACCEPTED position.

Wine, New Wineskins and the Prophetess connection: It isn't pretty.

Music and the Holy Whores. In the Bible------The Origin of the Musical Prostitute in Babylon-----

The Origin of the ZOE CONCEPT: Zoe has her origin in Inanna as the supreme GODDESS who had to put a brain into the head of the minor jehovah and little idiot brother, Jesus us Logos.

The origin of the world and the feminist (effeminate) religion. Introduction.

The Document Origins

See Three Dozen documents which associates women and music with Satan or Lucifer. Includes Enoch and Book of Jubilees

Anyone who pretends to prophesy by the authority of Deborah's experience or REPUDIATE the commands of Paul will have to answer to God:

"Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying.

Postmodern Prophesying: Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination:

Biblical Prophesying: 'Hear the word of the LORD! Ezek 13:2

This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit (self-composed songs or incantations with instruments) and have seen nothing! Ezek 13:3

My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD. Ezek 13:9

Those who sing OUT OF THEIR OWN SPIRIT in 1 Cor 14 are, according to Paul, just SPEAKING INTO THE AIR.

This is today's sermon today

Faith Seeking Understanding #16: Deborah

By: Rubel Shelly

[Preached as a dialogue between Rubel Shelly and John O. York on Mother's Day.] quoted in part.

That's a pretty good summary of the biblical character from the early period of the judges named Deborah. We're going to look at her story today -- a bit out of sequence in the series I'll admit because we saved her for Mother's Day -- from Judges 4 and 5....

Rubel Shelly: Sarah and Miriam, Rahab and Deborah, Elizabeth and Mary, Dorcas and Lydia, Priscilla and Phoebe -- the Bible has stories of many women who played significant roles as wives and mothers, prophets and deacons in the scheme of redemption God unfolded over the centuries.

Miriam means "bitter and rebellious." She claimed to be a prophetess of God but got a dose of Leprosy for her trouble.

"While she may have been called a prophetess because she was a wife of a prophet it is more likely that she had been a prophetess in Egypt which meant that she was a priestess with intercessory authority. Miriam and a band of trained women went out in a mind-altering song and dance with instruments common to Egypt but not common to Israel. This has been interpreted as not just a "victorious" dance but a well-established cultic activity of a priestess with unquestioned authority - which she even tried out on God." More below.

Is it possible that Miriam was the prototypical rebelous woman Paul had in mind? Find out.

How does Deborah become a PROPHETESS and proof for the first century DEACONESS or singer in a CULTURE so anti-woman?

And a same-day rough partial review.

The end goal is to prove that God commanded that women be leaders in the "worship" of the church. However, this RESTS on the story of Deborah while denying the clear Biblical understanding of Paul and the historical battles which vindicate the inspired writers and relegate the Bible Hammerers to silence.

None of these were leaders in the church. No, Phoebe was not a Deaconess. Click for the story of Rubel's friends at Richland Hills who follows the same pattern of a pyramidal organization structure with the MINISTER at the top of the pyramid.

John York: And I'm not sure we always give enough attention to these women because the story otherwise seems to be dominated by the men. The world of Scripture was a patrilineal and patriarchal culture and society. Thus when the women are named and presented in key leadership roles, we need to give special attention to what God is up to in those situations.

The almost universal world of RELIGION is matriarchal beginning in Egypt and/or Babylon. The Inanna, Isis, Zoe characters were the TRUE gods and goddesses. They USED the "minor jehovahs and logos" after setting them at THEIR RIGHT HAND and infusing a brain in the animal creatures. Then Sophia-Zoe commanded the junior members of the MALE persuasion to found MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAMS. To worship whom? Why to worship the female leadership as the true AGENTS of the MOTHER OF THE GODS.

The Old Testament synagogue as "the church in the wilderness" was not a religion but a School of the Bible and for prayer. It had no praise teams proving that it was patriarchal always in competition with the feminine men and women practicing their pagan RELIGION in and around the temple grounds.

Now, the foundation for female leadership in the church is laid on the foundation of Deborah in this sermon. Deborah was a judge when the nation fell into rack and ruin. The men had pulled back from taking the lead. Isn't that what always happens when women usurp the lead in the modern church? Don't the men just sit like owls on a log and let the women take control? In time they are disguised as "empty pews."

Rubel Shelly: Deborah was the fourth judge of Israel. She was a "prophetess" and the only female judge in the list of fifteen or so persons whom God raised up as deliverers and leaders to the Israelites in their Canaan-homeland. All we know about her family is that her husband's name was Lappidoth. She "held court" under a tree that became a national landmark. "She held court under the Palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites came to her to have their disputes decided" (Judg. 4:5).

Deborah was a prophetess in that she composed songs in praise of her own leadership. Her song begins at Mount Sinai when THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT was broken and God substituted THE BOOK OF THE LAW "because of transgression." The period until Jesus came was a LAWLESS PEOPLE governed by Law and the "religion" was that of the civil state: the king, city officials and clergy. The people were EXCLUDED during the sacrifice of animals with a LOUD CRASHING SOUND.

The Britannica Online notes that:

The nature of prophecy is twofold:

either inspired (by visions or revelatory auditions),

or acquired (by learning certain techniques). In many cases both aspects are present.

The goal of learning certain prophetic techniques is to reach an ecstatic state in which revelations can be received.

That state might be reached through the use of music, dancing, drums, violent bodily movement, and self-laceration.

If you go back to the Mount Sinai "musical idolatry" and following apostacy you will discover that God would have been righteous to have left the Israelites in Egypt to self destruct. In Sinai Deborah tried to take the rule and got a dose of leprosy for her trouble and was told that when God chooses a prophet He will speak to him face to face.

Because of this sin God turned the nation over to the pagan worship they were already practicing and promised to SCATTER them in the land where He knew that they would not repent.

Deborah held court at the oasis or "places of watering." That is where the boast song honoring Deborah was sung. The ultimate insult according to Deborah was to have God deliver the enemy into the hand of a woman. As in 1 Cor. 11-14 "prophesying" is used in two contradictory ways. First, the uncovered prophesying of the women just out of the pagan temples was an obscene musical performance. Perhaps like David's naked dance where he bragged about MAKING SELF VILE and held in honor among the camp following girls.

The musical sense of prophesying is to "sing, clap, play instruments" and lots of other things or a combination of these. Modern "praise singing" would have been identified by the classical writers or Paul as "prophesying."

"This is the first mention in the OT of a band of prophets. These were men who went about in companies and were able by means of music and dancing to work themselves up into a convulsive and ecstatic frenzy (2 Kings 3:1-10). Their abnormality was believed to be caused by the invasive influence of the spirit of god.

The word prophesied here does not mean either foretelling the future

or preaching after the manner of the later prophets,

but engaging in the ritual dance of the prophetic guild (19:18-24).

Their behavior was commonly regarded as a form of madness (2 Kings 9:11; Jeremiah 29:26)" (The Int. Bible Ency., I Sam. p. 932).

"It was probably usual to welcome a king or general with music and dancing...The distinctly religious dance is more frequently mentioned. The clear instances of it in the Bible are the dance of the women of Israel at the Red Sea, headed by Miriam with her tambourine (Exodus 15:20); the dance of the Israelites round the golden calf (Exodus 32:19); the dance of the maidens of Shiloah at the annual feast (Judges 21:19 ff); the leaping or limping of the prophets of Baal round their altar on Carmel (1 Kings 18:26); and the dancing of David in front of the ark (2 Samuel 6:14-16) (Int. Std. Bible Ency., p. 1169-70)

A true PROPHET was called by God to combat "prophesying" in the clergy or priestly sense of a prophetic MOCKING of Christ as the ultimate sacrifice."

IN EGYPT: "From time immorial music had been especially valued in the service of prophecy. Pliny the Elder gives us a report of the cult of Apis:

"In Egypt an ox is honored in place of the god. He is called Apis and he lives in isolation. If he ever goes among the people he stalks along while the lictors make way for him and throngs of boys accompany him, singing songs in his honor. He appears to understand what is happening and seems to wish to be adored. The throngs [of boys] suddenly become inspired and prophesy the future. (Pliny, Natural History)

Consequently Apollo (Apollyon or Abbadon) was god of prophets and musicians and Pan was god of medicine, music and divination.

"Here singing served as a means of inducing ecstatic prophecy (speaking in tongues).

Thus the essential relationship between music and prophecy can be clearly seen.

This relationship also explains why the expression for "making music" and "prophesying" was often identical in the ancient tongues. origen contra celsum 8.67.

The Hebrew word Naba signifies not only "to prophesy" but also "to make music." (Quasten, Johannes, Music and Worship in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 39)


"We know that all of the Israelites brought Egyptian gods and practices with them and it is not far-fetched to think that Miriam, who had not yet been exposed to the Covenant, was part of the consciousness-altering rhythms and which was part of a priestly myth-play brought to destructive consummation at Mount Sinai as the golden calf was called back into action.

This "rising up to play" involved eating, drinking, nakedness and musical worship. The goddess, Hathor, is the best candidate for the Mother Goddess of the Mount Sinai idolatry. Here priestessess or prophetesses were highly trained with musical instruments, cultic songs and be able to join in the religious dance.

"Music and drugs were co-consiprators in religious ecstasy. They may have used some product of the sycamore fig which both intoxicated and induced an altered state of consciousness. The ergo of barley was well known. Anton Marks

AT SINAI: And Smith's Bible Dictionary notes of true instrumental music and singing:

"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it;

but the employment of music in religious services, though idolatrous,

is more distinctly marked in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).

"And the people celebrated this feast with burnt-offerings and thank-offerings, with eating and drinking, i.e. with sacrificial meals and sports, or with loud rejoicing, shouting, antiphonal songs, and dances, in the same manner in which the Egyptians celebrated their feast of Apis (Herod. 2, 60, and 3, 27)." (Keil and Delitzsch, Vol. II, p. 222).

There is no MUSIC word used of the spiritual worship of a Spirit God in the entire Bible. On the contrary, music brought by Lucifer beginning in the garden of Eden was to SHUT GOD'S MOUTH.


"The religious ecstasy induced by music expressed itself either in an outburst of emotions, thus giving rise to religious catharsis, or in a transfer to the state of prophecy. In this way music became an important factor in divination. In the mysteries of the Magna Mater this relationship between music and divination is particularly clear.

Through the din of tambourines, cymbals and flutes

the ecstatic worshiper of the goddess prophesied the future to those present.

Musical "worship" has always been RISING UP TO PLAY. Its source is Satan personified as the King/Queen of Tyre, the harp-playing prostitute.

Modern Gnostic "new style worship" has turned to honoring the MOTHER OF GOD and even Sophia and Zoe as MOTHER GODDESS WORSHIP. Unfortunately, the priests were emasculated in one way or another.

Israel had engaged in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. God then turned the nation over to worship the "starry host" including Chiun or Saturn whose Chaldee number is 666.

When the people went into Canaan they had already been conditionally sentenced to captivity and death. Because there was no effective obedience to the Word of God people were not able to defend themselves. The 'princes' seem especially effeminate and cowardly.

Here is what happened under female ruler ship.

AND the children of Israel again did evil in the sight of the Lord, when Ehud was dead. Judges 4:1

And the Lord sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan, that reigned in Hazor; the captain of whose host was Sisera, which dwelt in Harosheth of the Gentiles. Judges 4:2

And the children of Israel cried unto the Lord: for he had nine hundred chariots of iron; and twenty years he mightily oppressed the children of Israel. Judges 4:3

And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. Judges 4:4

Deborah asks Barak a question indicating that he had previously encountered the enemy. The common response of God was to tell them over and over to go attack and He would be with them. However, the male leadership had failed so utterly that they trusted onl Deborah. A prophet or prophetess is also a proclaimer: when God has told us something then we prophesy by reciting that teaching so that we are able to say "thus saith the Lord."

And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Beth-el in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment. Judges 4:5

And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedesh-naphtali, and said unto him, Hath not the Lord God of Israel commanded, saying, Go and draw toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun? Judges 4:6

And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabins army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand. Judges 4:7

Get the point: the prophetess JUDGED and neither was a PROPHET or led any religious activity other than the singing at the oasis. In the same sense no one objects to a woman being county judge or a military general--if the males are too cowardly in the CORE message of Deborah. Deborah delivered the message which God always commanded: attack the enemy where he is and don't be cowards.

Failure apparently happened under Deborah's leadership. This undoubtedly means that Deborah was not expected to be the ruler of Israel even though she counseled under her own tree.

Deborah received NO CALL in the old "modern" Bible.

John York: It's interesting to me, Rubel, that the writer of this text goes out his way to make sure we understand that God has selected a female to provide leadership for his people at this point. There is a string of seven consecutive feminine words in the original language that introduces us to Deborah in Judges 5. Twice the writer uses the word we would translate "woman" to accentuate the fact that this is a female prophet of God.

No! Deborah was not a female prophet in the sense of the writing prophets. She was a musical prophesier perhaps. Many females led in may ways but the fact that Golda Myher was a WARRIOR CHIEFTAN in freeing and governing Israel does not mean that she could lead the Synagogue.

But the MESSAGE which Jesus said was hidden from the RETAILERS of the Word "from the foundation of the world" in parables. Isaiah 48 has God explaining that this is to prevent the commercial hucksters from SELLING the free Water of the Word (Isa 55)

The message IN CONTEXT is that female leadership did not prevent the destruction of the nation under Deborah, that male leadership is SHAMED when women take the lead and that females will always lead into charismatic rituals which is not remotely related to worship ONLY in the human spirit as it GIVES HEED to the Spirit of truth.

We should note that females rise to leadership when the male leadership fails or is destroyed by dominant misleaders. In fact Deborah makes it clear that the male, Barak, would be disgraced because a woman had to take the leadership. Seems like Deborah knew that something had been lost when females are put in the leadership roles:

And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go. Judges 4:8

And she said, I will surely go with thee:

notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour;

for the Lord shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh. Judges 4 9

Isn't boasting of 'firing' the deacons who have about the same Biblical duties to be teachers as the elders, a SECOND INCARNATION of the female spirit bragging about violating the DIRECT COMMANDS about male leadership as DEACONS. History repudiates the role of Deaconess. Deacons have the outreach preaching authority of the Elders. The notion of a PREACHER firing the deacons is a repulsive USURPATION of their role as leaders of the local congregation.

"Musical worship teams" are also the rise of ZOE to put down masculine leadership in teaching the Word "as it has been taught." ZOE was known as the BEAST and "the female teaching principle." The ZOE principle is the LUCIFER principle of bleeding off worship due to God in order to worship the "theatrical performers."

John York: Some even suggest that the name "Lappidoth" might actually be an adjective to describe her as a "fiery woman" rather than as a wife of a particular man that otherwise never appears in the story.

Assuredly Deborah SHINED in her taunting song against male leadership.

Halal (h1984) haw-lal'; a prim. root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causat. to celebrate; also to stultify: - (make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool (- ish, -ly), glory, give [light], be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, [sing, be worthy of] praise, rage, renowned, shine.

And of course the musical boasting word, Chalal, can be translated as "to play the flute, to pollute or to prostitute." The word for LUCIFER who walked on the FIREY STONES in the garden of Eden and wholly seduced Eve is derived from the self-boasting "praise singing."

Heylel (h1966) hay-lale'; from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star: - lucifer.

Because Lucifer is a SHE then Deborah might be sent to shame the cowardly males who cannot resist being RUN OVER OR RUN OUT. So, Lucifer truly was a FIREY WOMAN.

Deborah was not a PROPHET because she left no record. The true prophets spent lots of time JUDGING the clergy or priestly class because they failed to teach the word. The most often replacement for the Word was musical entertainment originally performed only by females because males knew that it MARKED them.

"It is probable that Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, and others were called 'prophetesses,' not so much because they were supposed to be gifted with knowledge of futurity, like the seers, as because they possessed a poetical inspiration..." (Book, Hist. Digests., p. 265). (Note: there may be one exception in the case of Huldah).

"It should be noted, however, that women like Miriam (Exod. 15:20), Deborah (Judges 4:4) and Hulda (2 Ki. 22:14) were not credited with the seer's insight into the future, but were called 'prophetesses' because of the poetical inspiration of their speech." (Int. Std. Bible Ency., Prophetess, p. 2467).

Maybe you remember the old discarded Paul who NEVER commanded singing in the modern sense. The DIRECT COMMAND was to SPEAK to one another to TEACH. And Moses recited his songs as did everyone else.

"Similarly the prophesying is in the singing of psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Also included is the playing of instruments. Because in the Temple worship the sons of Asaph and Jeduthun 'prophesied with a harp, to give thanks and praise the Lord' (see 1 Chron 25:1-7), it seems quite reasonable that in the context of public worship, to 'prophesy' in 1 Corinthians 11 should mean the same as in 1 Chronicles 25." (Culver, Women in Ministry, p. 29).

Of course, they never prophesied in the Holy Place as a carnal type of the church of Christ. The singers or musicians who entered into this type of the 'church' would have been executed if they tried. No, not even to clean out the garbage.

Deborah was a WIFE. If we are going to grant ourselves TOO MUCH LIBERTY we should note that 'ishshah can also mean a prostitute. No one translates this other than the wife of a husband. The "fiery" concept would apply to the HUSBAND and not to Deborah. As prophetess Deborah was a poetess or song writer and chapter 5 is her song of self-praise.

Nebiyah (h5031) neb-ee-yaw'; fem. of 5030; a prophetess or (gen.) inspired woman; by impl. a poetess; by association of prophet's wife: - prophetess.

As proof we note that Huldah as a prophetess did not prophesy but she was the librarian:

And Hilkiah, and they that the king had appointed, went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvath, the son of Hasrah, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college;) and they spake to her to that effect. 2Chr.34:22

Just like Deborah's HUSBAND, Shallum needed not be involved because he was not the official LIBRARIAN.

The college is MISHNEH where they kept a duplicate copy of the law. She "prophesied" in one sense because she consulted the Law and quoted it to the king.

Miriam was also called a prophetess. As sister of Moses she would have been a prophetess of Hathor and her sistrum and LEADING OUT TO ESCAPE the women in dance proves it.

And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out (escaped) after her with timbrels and with dances. Ex.15:20

Miriam's name means BITTER or REBELLIOUS. When she pretended to be a true PROPHETESS God plagued her with a skin disease.

John York: It is also clear that God has called her to act as a judge over the people of Israel in ways that he does not ask any of the other men in the book of Judges to act. We get two distinct images of her work. One is in this obviously judicial setting under the tree where the people of Israel come to have their strife adjudicated. The only other character that we see serving in that capacity is Moses back in the days of the wilderness wanderings before he appointed 70 elders to help him.

You do remember that Jethro the Midianite suggested that God's burden was TOO HEAVY for Moses to bear all alone. The Midianites figured into the not commanded sacrifice and the "rising up to play" and the latter trouble with the Midianites proves that they were ot friends of God. Nevertheless, these might give SERMONIC FODDER for allowing women to run for CIVIL offices but this has nothing to do with RELIGIOUS duties where God ONLY appointed male priests and prophets.

When the people went into Canaan they had already been conditionally sentenced to captivity and death. Because there was no effective obedience to the Word of God people were not able to defend themselves. The 'princes' seem especially effeminate and cowardly. The Judges simply rescued the enemy as they continually fell into idolatry because there was no MALE SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP.

There is a HUGE MISSING HOLE in this sermonizing. If Deborah was the NATIONAL LEADER then the FEMALES IN CHARGE thing may apply because under her CHURCHY LEADERSHIP look what has happened:

AND the children of Israel again did evil in the sight of the Lord, when Ehud was dead. Judges 4:1

And the Lord sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan, that reigned in Hazor; the captain of whose host was Sisera, which dwelt in Harosheth of the Gentiles. Judges 4:2

Where was the FEMALE leadership which can be remotely associated with spiritual leadership which did not prevent the evil of the people?

And the children of Israel cried unto the Lord: for he had nine hundred chariots of iron; and twenty years he mightily oppressed the children of Israel. Judges 4:3

And who is in charge?

And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. Judges 4:4

And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Beth-el in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment. Judges 4:5

John York: The other more obvious role she takes on is that of the person God uses to give orders to fight against the enemy. In this case the enemy is Canaanite King Jabin whose military general, Sisera, must be defeated in order for Northern Israel to be liberated. Speaking both as God's prophet and judge, Deborah summons Barak to her court and gives him the following instructions:

Israel is in deep military troubles because they did not follow the Law. The priests were not functioning and the princes had failed. So? We just use some female trickery to deceive and murder the enemy in his sleep.

Deborah received NO CALL in the old "modern" Bible.

John York: The LORD, the God of Israel, commands you, "Go, take position at Mount Tabor, bringing ten thousand from the tribe of Naphtali and the tribe of Zebulun. I will draw out Sisera, the general of Jabin's army, to meet you by the Wadi Kishon with his chariots and his troops; and I will give him into your hand." Barak said to her, "If you will go with me, I will go; but if you will not go with me, I will not go" (Judg. 4:6-8). Rubel: What an interesting turn of events! God is prepared to act. He sends word to a military man of his intention and calls him to gather his fighting men. Is Barak faltering in his faith? Is he hesitant about his obedience? Or is he simply honoring Deborah for her role in this event as a prophet of Yahweh?

God does not send except through the taunting words of Deborah. In the KJV she asked a question:

And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedesh-naphtali, and said unto him, Hath not the Lord God of Israel commanded, saying, Go and draw toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun? Judges 4: 6

And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabins army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand. Judges 4: 7

Why didn't Deborah call on the people to repent and pray? That would have assuredly have caused God to rescue them? The point in this particular judge seems to be that things fall apart when the males do not assert themselves. And again, Deborah says that this thing is to SHAME the male leadership.

And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go. Judges 4: 8

John York: While I would like to exonerate Barak and simply have him be a chivalrous man who shows Deborah a courtesy by allowing her to be an embedded prophetess-reporter for the people back home, the text doesn't seem to allow that spin on things as a natural interpretation. Deborah, to say the least, seems to sense uncertainty and fear in General Barak. She told him, "Very well, I will go with you. But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman" (Judg. 4:9).

Now, Deborah knows the ULTIMATE INSULT even though she was a judge:

And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour;

for the Lord shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman.

And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh. Judges 4: 9

If you find females leading you then you know that somehow you have been emasculated or neutered and God is going to dishonor you by having a woman do the dirty work for you.

And Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh; and he went up with ten thousand men at his feet: and Deborah went up with him. Judges 4: 10

Now Heber the Kenite, which was of the children of Hobab the father in law of Moses, had severed himself from the Kenites, and pitched his tent unto the plain of Zaanaim, which is by Kedesh. Judges 4: 11

The battle went poorly for the enemy so the ENEMY'S MALE LEADERSHIP turns coward and runs to the Kenites who were supposed to be friends. But, Deborah's "prophecy" comes true and a FEMALE took the leadership and had to use treachery to kill Sisera. There is nothing which silences male leadership more than a dominant female. Who knows which came first: cowardly men or usurping Deborah.

John York: And the woman who would receive the honor for Sisera's defeat was not Deborah but a woman named Jael. Barak and Deborah go up to Mount Tabor with their 10,000 troops and Sisera gathers his 900 chariots and all his troops and they come out to fight, just as God had predicted. Once more Deborah speaks to Barak and says, "Up! For this is the day on which the LORD has given Sisera into your hand. The LORD is indeed going out before you" (Judg. 4:14).

Jael's dubious honor is the male's dishonor. Is that a good proof for female leadership so powerful that you can cut and paste Paul's very clear commandments honored for these 2,000 years?

Howbeit Sisera fled away on his feet to the tent of Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite: for there was peace between Jabin the king of Hazor and the house of Heber the Kenite. Judges 4: 17

And Jael went out to meet Sisera, and said unto him, Turn in, my lord, turn in to me; fear not. And when he had turned in unto her into the tent, she covered him with a mantle. Judges 4: 18

Oh, I see. Now, we have the postmodern authority (never doubted) to lie, cheat and even murder with no reason to fear for our lives. That is what Karen Armstrong notes of the periodic millennial craze.

Sisera asked for water but Jael intended to slightly drug him:

And he said unto her, Give me, I pray thee, a little water to drink; for I am thirsty.

And she opened a bottle of milk, and gave him drink, and covered him. Judges 4:19

John York: As the battle unfolds, we are told that it is the LORD who throws Sisera and his charioteers into a panic. Barak and his army destroy every member of Sisera's army except Sisera himself. Sisera leaves his chariot behind and flees on foot -- an odd decision unless there is such mass destruction among the other chariots that there is no place to drive one out. Sisera takes refuge, he thinks, in the tent of what he assumes is a neutral family of Kenites. It is the woman, Jael, who invites him to take refuge in her tent. After giving him something to drink and promising Sisera that she will tell passers-by that no one is inside the tent, he lies down and goes to sleep. Jael then kills Sisera with the use of a tent peg -- it's an incredibly graphic scene that I'll let you read to them, Rubel!

No, Jael is slicker than a slug: her silence should not be interpreted as a promise and it wasn't.

Silence normally would presume that Sisera understood that Jael would be FAITHFUL and guard his presence. He trusted himself to a women he assumed to be soft. Is that the kind of leadership God wants in the church or synagogue or school of the Bible? Can we trust our children when the women pretend to "lead them into Canaan land" as a sure sign that they will go into captivity to the POSTMODERN outrage.

When you make a covenant it is a covenant but Jael was a FEMALE LEADER.

Again he said unto her, Stand in the door of the tent, and it shall be, when any man doth come and enquire of thee, and say, Is there any man here? that thou shalt say, No. Judges 4:20

Then Jael Hebers wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died. Judges 4:21

Would Shelly and Harris do that?

Have you noted that driving a tent peg into a sleeping man's head has a "musical" connection? Why wouldn't Jael just use a hammer? Isn't there some symbolism when we use the acceptable TRICKS of warfare and use it as proof for modern Christian leadership? Isn't the Postmodern scheme based on the tricks of the likes of Machiavelli, Hitler or modern change agents. Here is the IMAGERY always attacked to musical words meaning Satanic, military or otherwise destructive.

Taqa (h8628) taw-kah'; a prim. root; to clatter, i. e. slap (the hands together), clang (an instrument); by anal. to drive (a nail or tent-pin, a dart, etc.); by impl. to become bondsman (by hand-clasping): - blow ([a trumpet]), cast, clap, fasten, pitch [tent], smite, sound, strike, * suretiship, thrust.

The "church in the wilderness" was the Qahal translated as synagogue in the Green version. The two trumpets were to sound an alarm to TRIUMPH OVER the enemy by turning them into cowards. Otherwise it was used like a "church bell" to signal various events. It could be used when calling assembly but the ALARM or TRIUMPH OVER was outlawed for the assembly which had no "worship" function but only instructions.

But when the congregation is to be gathered together, ye shall blow, but ye shall not sound an alarm. Nu.10:7

The TRIUMPH OVER was probably what panicked Sisera:

Ruwa (h7321) roo-ah'; a prim. root; to mar (espec. by breaking); fig. to split the ears (with sound), i. e. shout (for alarm or joy): - blow an alarm, cry (alarm, aloud, out), destroy, make a joyful noise, smart, shout (for joy), sound an alarm, triumph.

Psalm 41 prophesied that Judas would try with the clergy to triumph over Jesus with loud music and "making a joyful noise before the Lord." This was the usual national warrior's chant.

When you see music in a worship sense, hand clapping or instruments you know first that history knows this ONLY as a female or perverted male activity and, second, a MARK that females are trying to TRIUMPH OVER Jesus so that HIS words are not preached or sung.

In Ezekiel 13 the female PROPHESIERS or musical enchanters are described: Note the female connection with ZOE the ancient matriarchal counterpart to Jesus Christ the Logos who sits on the thrones of all NEW STYLE WORSHIP pagan temples..

Henry: 5. They mimicked the true prophets,

by giving signs for the illustrating of their false predictions (as Hananiah did, Jer. 28:10),

and they were signs agreeable to their sex; they sewed little pillows to the people's arm-holes, to signify

that they might be easy and repose themselves, and needed not be disquieted with the apprehensions of trouble approaching.

And they made kerchiefs upon the head of every stature, of persons of every age, young and old, distinguishable by their stature, v. 18.

These kerchiefs were badges of liberty or triumph, intimating that they should not only be delivered from the Chaldeans, but be victorious over them.

Some think these were some superstitious rites which they used with those to whom they delivered their divinations, preparing them for the reception of them by putting enchanted pillows under their arms and handkerchiefs on their heads,

to raise their fancies and their expectations of something great.

Or perhaps the expressions are figurative: they did all they could to make people secure, which is signified by

laying them easy, and to make people proud, which is signified by dressing them fine with handkerchiefs, perhaps laid or embroidered on their heads.

18 Woe. Eze 13:3,  that sew. Rather, that fasten cushions; by which they intimated that they might indulge and repose themselves in security, for no enemy would disturb them. The apartments of the easterns are well supplied with cushions, on which they sit, lean, rest their heads, and prop up their arms. Eze 13:10,16 Jer 4:10,  Jer 6:14,  2Ti 4:3,  armholes. or, elbows. hunt souls. Eze 22:25,  Eph 4:14,  2Pe 2:14.

John York: Chapter 4 then ends with a summary statement about the complete defeat of the King Jabin of Canaan and the entire story is then rehearsed as a song of victory in Judges 5.

Rubel Shelly: There you are, John. Another of those biblical stories proving that a woman's place is in the home. That, like children, they should only occasionally be seen -- and never heard. That women should stay silent in the church. And that . . .

But there was NO spiritual fruit of all of this slaughter. Why kill all of those people and return to the same evil ways. If Deborah was a prophet why do we not see her out under the tree TEACHING the children the Words of God?

John York: And what story were you reading?! It seems to me that this story could be used to argue the opposite case for everything you've just said it teaches. Or, do I see your tongue planted firmly in your cheek?

Stories like Deborah were certainly difficult to accept in the male-dominated culture in which they are found in Biblical history. But they are no less difficult today. We're not sure what to call Deborah, other than some exception to all of our rules about God placing males in some sort of authoritative role over women. But Deborah clearly is gifted by God, called by God, and she gives glory to God for the victory that he wins. Listen to the opening lines of her song:

Hear O kings; give ear, O princes;
to the LORD I will sing,
I will make melody to the LORD the God of Israel.
LORD, when you went out from Seir,
when you marched from the region of Edom,
the earth trembled,
and the heavens poured water.

The mountains quaked before the LORD, the One of Sinai, before the LORD, the God of Israel (Judg. 5:3-5).

We use songs written by Fanny J. Crosby, Amy Grant, and Twila Paris. But relatively few of our churches want them read aloud, sung as solos, or led for the congregation by one of their fellow-females. There are unwritten rules in many churches against having women greet, usher, pass communion, or receive an offering. Is side-to-side distribution of communion ware essentially different from passing it row-to-row style?

In the "olden modern" Bible that would be called violating a direct command. However, this form of SANGING rather than teaching the "words of Christ" is the breeding grounds of a total lack of insight into Deborah as a negative model of female leadership

We believe that in the "sifted" Bible there are rules about women in either speaking roles or non-sedentary roles. Why? The word for authority which Paul used was AUTHENTIA.

The word meant "both erotic and murderous." It is physically impossible to USE females in stand up or speaking roles without their EXERCISING sexual authority. It is literally impossible to GIVE HEED to the commanded words of Paul and at the same time give heed to Twila Paris teaching error. It is impossible to GIVE HEED to Lord Jesus Christ while giving heed to the personal display of the idolatry of talent by the team. Men know that when they USE women in appearance roles it will SUCK IN the seekers. That is the TRUE motive.

Jesus said that worship is in the PLACE of the human spirit and you cannot "make melody in the heart" when someone is making complex harmony in your ears and producing a DRUG HIGH from endorphins or self-produced morphine. It is harmful and addictive and its use makes a church into a SPIRITUAL CRACK HOUSE.

Paul said that contrary to the old rules of worship, the circumcised worshiped in a new PLACE:

For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh- Ph.3:3

Rubel Shelly: The prevailing view of our shepherd body is clearly to give more not less opportunity for women to use their talents in the ministry roles of this body. Greeting, ushering, serving communion, teaching, testifying, singing -- both males and females who wish to assist are encouraged to do so. Ministry Leaders (i.e., deacons) are chosen on the basis of gift, skills, and passion rather than gender.

Prevailing is the same word as the Hegel Dialectic "consensus." It means that I have an idea. You don't like it. I wear you down and even pout until we reach a COMMON consensus. The consensus is the VIEW I proposed in the beginning. That is why the PREACHER'S views PREVAIL. These were goals of a tiny band of men who began Jubilee: Musical worship and a broader role for women. Don't worry about the battles but take as long as necessary to wear everyone down.

How do you count the votes to PREVAIL?

We have collected the world's most important literature on the Deaconess. Phoebe was a servant of the church in Cenchrea (Corinth area). In the historical church and in the view of the Restoration Movement the term was used to designate "the sewing circle" but NEVER non-sedentary or non-silent roles in leading the worship. In the Catholic church the title was given and quickly abused to widows over 60 pledged not to remarry. It was also applied to virgins who were NUNS and not leaders of the church.

Question: If the culture was so anti-woman in the early church how is it that Phoebe can be one of the highest servants in a church?

Well, she was not a deaconess.

The quick abandonment of the title "deaconess" proves the wisdom of God through Paul in reserving the collective assembly to be led by the elders as the ONLY pastor teachers in the local congregation.

What These men are describing is the traditional DOMINANT PASTOR system gleaned from the garbage pits of denominationalism. They just brush it off and call it a NEW VISION.

Rubel Shelly: The leaders of this church have come to that position over a period of years -- not to adjust to cultural pressures but to honor the Lord's gifting of females in this body and to obey Scripture. So women not only cook and teach children -- both of which are critical ministries in themselves --

but read Scripture, sing on our Praise Teams,

teach a wide variety of classes for people of whatever age, greet visitors,

serve communion, present drama, give testimonies, etc.

In this new PARADIGM the LEADERS are primarily the senior pastor and his board of elders dominated by what I lovingly call STAFF INFECTION. For people who have no lawful role in the church of Christ they are "babies who have come a long way" on sheer bluff.

Lynn Anderson who is undoubtedly the fuel of the fire under the elders. He brags about taking 10 or so years to get his church to TOLERATE singing during the Lord's Supper as the ultimate insult to Jesus Christ.

Shelly and York build on sand: who gave them the power to CONTRADICT Jesus who "cast out" the Musical Mourning team like dung? Who gave them the power to USURP the congregation's authority by USING even a male musical worship team to, in Rubel's words, "Lead you into the presence of God." How do musicians get the authority to DISMISS Lord Jesus Christ as the One and Only mediator between man and God. Which team died to get that authority. Shelly-York must know that the universal connection between MUSIC and worship is to tell God: "We will not listen to YOUR words."

Paul said that the Romans were "competent to teach one another." How can the most WORKS INTENSIVE TALENT known to mankind REPLACE the one another unison singing of the INSPIRED Biblical text?

If you know nothing about Paul's letters because you dismiss them then you might make the horrible blunder of claiming that because women as PROPHESIERS were mentioned in 1 Cor 11 we MUST improvise another interpretation of Paul's ABSOLUTE PROHIBITION of women in SPEAKING or STAND OVER or "non sedentary roles" in chapter 14.

John: And I have yet to see one of those women "usurp authority" or show disrespect to the shepherds and their leadership duties in filling those roles! We have used a scissors-and-paste reading of the Bible to deny these functions to women.

We have, for example, taken Paul's words about women being "silent in the churches" from 1 Corinthians 14:34 and built a theology on them --

without realizing that he is speaking to a very special situation in that chapter and thereby forcing his words in chapter 14 to contradict his words back in chapter 11!

All of the Bible was written in some REMOTE culture. Isn't that weird? To deny that Paul wrote universal truths is to deny that he was inspired. Or it denies that Christ the Spirit had the power to preserve the SCRIPTURES while Shelly and York have the power to REVEAL the word "for our culture."

Not remotely truthful! Is his speaking in chapter 11 NOT within the culture of the society? How can you shift the emphasis upon silent and sedentary women in the assembly which has stood for 2,000 years and suddenly get the POSTMODERN inspiration that we need to REVERSE the "old modern" understanding.

Let's jump ahead and exegete for those who COULD NEVER have read First Corinthians 11 other than as a grab bag for sermons and false teaching. The uncovered "prophesiers" lived in an evil soup of pagan prophesying which meant to sing and make music. The new believers had to undergo a complete mental training before they would rise above what Paul called STILL CARNAL and unable to hear the Word.

The Meaning of PROPHESYING uncovered. Women were normally prostitutes and the males were male prostitutes in their prophesying which Paul said would make them look MAD or insane:

Men, apparently out of their wits, would utter prophesies with frenzied bodily convulsions: matrons, attired as Bacchantes, with their hair disheveled and carrying blazing torches, would run down to the Tiber, plunge their torches into the water and bring them out still alight - because they contained a mixture of live sulfur and calcium. Men were said to have been carried off by the gods - because they had been attached to a machine and whisked way out of sight to hidden caves; or to submit to violation." Titus Livy, History of Rome, Book 39.13

"The female votaries of the phallus god Bacchus were known as the Bacchants...

They were characterized by extreme forms of religious excitement interspersed with periods of intense depression.

At one moment whirling in a frenzied dance, tossing their heads,

driving one another on with screaming and the wild clamor of musical instruments,

at another sunk into the deepest lethargy, and a silence so intense as to become proverbial.

The Bacchants both possessed the god and were possessed by him; theirs was a religious enthusiasm in the proper sense of the term, that is, 'god-filled'. Having eaten the Bacchus or Dionysos, they took on his power and character..." (John M. Allegro, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross).

Lenski notes that:

"No woman had as yet tried to dispense with the covering for the head while they were at worship; Paul is thus able to insert his word of praise.

When he comes to the new subject, the truth is quite different. Abuses had actually crept in,...

Thus while he transmits his directions regarding women with a word of praise,

this praise must be omitted when he comes to speak about the assemblies for the purpose of celebrating the Sacrament....

Paul thus marks with great plainness that the disorders of which he now speaks occur in the public assemblies of the congregation." (Lenski, Commentary,1 Corinthians 11:17)

Next, Paul turns to the PUBLIC ASSEMBLY which permitted no females to teach which is to "sing" and rule OVER the males:

Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. 1 Corinthians 11:17

Beginning in 11:17 Paul described what was to happen "when you come together" to prevent the assembly from "doing more harm than good." In chapter fourteen he silenced women in the singing-speaking roles which "ruled over" others. You cannot ignore Paul without first denying that He was inspired.

"An issue has been made of the point that Paul speaks of a woman as prophesying as though it were a matter of course that she should prophesy just as she also prays, and just as the man, too, prays and prophesies.

Paul is said to contradict himself when he forbids the women to prophesy in 14:34-36.

"The matter becomes clear when we observe that

from 11:17 onward until the end of chapter 14 Paul deals with the gatherings of the congregation for public worship and with regulations pertaining to public assemblies.

"The transition is decidedly marked: 'that ye come together,' i.e., for public worship, v. 17; 'when ye come together in the church' (ekklpsia, no article), v. 18; and again: 'when ye assemble together,' i.e., for public worship, v. 20) In these public assemblies

"Paul forbids the women, not only to prophesy, but to speak at all, 14:34-36 and assigns the reason for this prohibition just as he does in 1 Tim. 2:11." (Lenski, 1 Cor. p. 437).

This isn't the Sunday to exegete that text, but it is certainly an issue Woodmont Hills and every other church is going to have to face. And sooner rather than later!

People have to FACE IT for several reasons.

First, the JUBILATORS who repudiate the blood of Christ must deliberately know that THEY have no "office" or role to play in the church. Religion involves WORSHIP CENTERS. However, Jesus died to found His ekklesia or synagogue of the Bible. There was no real preaching or "praise service" in the synagogue and none in the church. Paul commands "speaking (preaching) one to another."

The Bible makes it plain and all but apostate churches grasped that the body of Christ has no earthly HEAD. Jesus Christ is the ONE Teacher but only when the elders "teach that which has been taught." All scholars castigate professional "doctors of the law."

"Give money to make poor pious youths learned clergy, or vain pretenders to erudition; and they pray that they may preach to you; yes, and pay them too.

Was there ever such a craft as priestcraft? No, it is the craftiest of all crafts. It is so crafty that it obtains by its craft the means to make craftsmen, and then it makes the deluded support them!" (Campbell, Alexander, Christian Baptist, Dec. 1, 1823, Vol. 1, p. 91).

"Those who lord it over the people will soon begin to destroy Them. The word Balaam means 'the destroyer of the people.' If we turn back to the history of this strange figure as recorded in the book of Numbers we find that which clarifies three passages in the New Testament where 'the error of Balaam' (Jude 11), 'the way of Balaam' (II Pet. 2:15) and 'the doctrine of Balaam' are discussed." (Barnhouse, D.G., Revelation, Zondervan, p. 54

Click to read the UNIVERSAL BIBLICAL AND HISTORICAL testimony about usurping men who infiltrate and radicalize and "steal the church houses of widows."

Second, the females or effeminate turn people away from the WORD and toward the worship of the performers needing ATTENTION.

> "Philodemus considered it paradoxical that music should be regarded as veneration of the gods while musicians were paid for performing this so-called veneration. Again, Philodemus held as self deceptive the view that music mediated religious ecstasy.

He saw the entire condition induced by the noise of cymbals (hand clapping or tabering) and tambourines as a disturbance of the spirit.

He found it significant that, on the whole, only women and effeminate men fell into this folly.

Accordingly, nothing of value could be attributed to music; it was no more than a slave of the sensation of pleasure, which satisfied much in the same way that food and drink did.

> "Women and girls from the different ranks of society were proud to enter the service of the gods as singers and musicians. The understanding of this service was universal:these singers constituted the 'harem of the gods'." (End of Quasten)

> "The popularity of the gospel hymn is closely tied to

the emerging forms of nineteenth-century white urban revivalism and to the social conditions of the period.

Middleclass Protestants in postindustrial America were increasingly literate producing and devouring newspapers magazines, histories, novels, and poetry in enormous quantities.

At the same time, male and female roles were being redefined, and many men spent their energies in the business and politics of an expanding society.

Those were arenas from which both women and ministers, by custom and/or law, were excluded.

Religion itself was becoming a separate sphere, no longer directly linked to government and public affairs,

and ministers had lost the prestige their forefathers had as scholars and advisers to magistrates.

Together with their most faithful followers, middleclass women,

they created a realm of intense religious experience, separate from the larger society, and gave it expression in poetry and hymnody.

By usurping (for a price too high) the role of the elders and males of the congregation the preacher has historically found himself OUT ON A LIMB and the only thing he has to prop himself up on thin air is women who are also somewhat disenfranchised

Rubel Shelly: You're right, because wasting the spiritual resources God has given to members of Christ's body is a terrible thing to do! And using Paul to suppress humble service by females in the routine life of the church is a serious misuse of the apostle's words.

Like you, I'm pleased that our shepherds have been willing to give some helpful leadership on this point.

We both support them wholeheartedly.

Did the elders exercise LEADERSHIP or give "some helpful leadership" to the ministers who are the new TRUE leaders?

We just doubt that the dismissing of deacons and selection of "ministers" came out of the heads of the "shepherds." That is a word which means that they are NOT leaders but they shepherd the TRUE leaders who are the ministers.

The word SHEPHERD has been used to move the elders from their God given role as Preacher-Pastors of the local congregation to ADVISORS to the ministers. This is just the Christian church all over again.

Rubel Shelly Elsewhere-----Reviewed and compared to parallel historical deviations.

April 4-6, 2002 Putting on a new pair of glasses makes what was distorted now focused and clear.

We see the world as it really is -

not what our old glasses led us to see.

The Body of Christ needs to re-vision - to look through new glasses for a fresh perspective.

However the millenniallism fit hits often in history:

"A new type of piety developed alongside the rationalism of the Enlightenment, which is often called 'the religion of the heart.' Although it was centered in the heart rather than the head, it shared many of the same preoccupations as Deism.

It urged men and women to abandon external proofs and authorities and discover the God who was within the heart and capacity of everybody. (Armstrong. p. 315)

"History notes that when religion swings from repression to permissiveness,

those with mental disorders lose their emotional footing and

react by flaunting the violation of previous religious views.

"Albert C. Ouler points out that the new religion of the heart and the rationalism of the Enlightenment were both antiestablishment and both mistrusted external authority; both ranged themselves with moderns against the ancients...

Many of these sects seemed to respond to the immense changes of the period by violating religious taboos. Some appeared blasphemous; some were dubbed atheistic,

while others had leaders who actually claimed to be incarnations of God. [Or perhaps the 13th Apostle?]

"The accounts that we have of their lives suggest mental disorder."

"The Ranters "deliberately broke Christian taboos in their libertarian creed and blasphemously claimed that there was no distinction between God and man.

Some Ranters claimed to be the Messiah, a reincarnation of God, who was to establish a new kingdom." (Armstrong 320) [A new Wineskin]

in the self-exaltation of the Ranters or the Inner Light of the Quakers it is possible to see an aspiration that was similar to that expressed a century later by the French revolutanaries who enthroned the Goddess of Reason in the Pantheon."

Kant claimed that he had, in our words, "destroyed doctrine to make room for faith."

"the new religion of the heart and the rationalism of the Enlightenment were both antiestablishment and both mistrusted external authority;

both ranged themselves with the moderns against the ancient. (Armstrong, p. 318)

Rubel Shelly elsewhere: Friday, April 5, 2:30 p.m. -- "Shepherds in Relationship: With Church Leaders" -

Elders must be able to be both spontaneous and intentional in the shepherding, mentoring, equipping, and encouraging

they provide to the leaders of the church

Ministers are the greatest resource of the local church in terms of knowledge, experience, and investment in human resources.

Shepherds and ministers must work as partners in anticipating and meeting the needs of the church family.

That is why we believe it NOT to be true that the radical sowing of discord came out of the minds of the ELDERS. Rather, the idea was put into their mind by the MINISTERS (slaves) and a Hegelian or Hitlerian consensus was reached.

The SPIRITUAL RESOURCES God has given to INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS is not at the disposal of Rubel Shelly and John York or a secular organization. The BURDEN laded on the backs of people used like pack animals was "anxiety created by religious rituals." The REST Jesus died to give us is FREEDOM FROM usurping men who believe that God has given them the right to regulate every moment of the "body" part's lives. Jesus died to say: "Just leave them alone." You have no authority to PROVIDE places for EITHER males or females which the church as SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE DOES NOT provide in Scripture.

The early church met for the Lord's Supper and instruction (not music) and were free to direct their own lives. If the women spent 1 hour in RITUALISTIC false "worship" then they have 167 hours left in the week to FREELY do what Jesus died to free them from a clergy system. to do.

The LIVES of women is not bound up in a religion with a pyramidal structure: dominant pastor, supporting elders as "shepherds to the ministers" and a host of programs which do not advance the EVANGELISTIC ROLE of anyone presuming to accept financial help.

And I might just add that there is no sentiment of simply wanting to be different, proving a point to somebody, or feeling spiritually superior to people who don't share our views. It is simply trying to honor God and his female servants. It is an attempt to free women to do things God has called them to do and church culture prohibited. It is obedience.

By claiming a cultural bias for Paul doesn't Shelly-York deny that Paul was inspired to speak truths which DO NOT CHANGE with nature? If so, how do we trust SHELLY-YORK to NARRATE a new SET OF SCRIPTURES suitable for our days? Why are they wiser than 2,000 years of the hammers beating on the anvil of God's Word.

The clearest way to DISHONOR God is to dishonor the written Word which came through the Living Word. Jesus as the Spirit appeared to Paul and promised to guide him into all truth. You cannot remotely FIND female leadership without repudiating Paul and in turn Jesus who CAST OUT the musical mourning women "more or less violently" or "as one casts out dung."

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Jn.12:47

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:48

Spiritual superiority would NEVER come to the surface of any true Bible student. Why should those who believe that the Bible has been "sifted" through human philosophy and the Bible writer's own personal agenda even hint that they appear to be spiritually superior. On the contrary, from 2,000 years of similar "unapproved examples" we would see the delusion promised to those who reject the value of the Word "as it has been taught"

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thess 2:10

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2 Thess 2:11

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thess 2:12

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 2 Thess 2:13

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thess 2:14

All performance preaching and musical teams is for the GLORY OF THE TEAM--there can be no other alternative.

Chapter 5

Now, songs are poems and poems tend to be poetic. Just how much is Shelly and York willing to IMPORT as authority for female leadership while denouncing the PROOF supplied by Paul the apostle?

The song of Deborah rehearses the story of Mount Sinai where all Bible students understand that Israel failed because they returned to musical idolatry. Then the song continues;

In the days of Shamgar the son of Anath, in the days of Jael, the highways were unoccupied, and the travelers walked through byways. Judges 5:6

The inhabitants of the villages ceased, they ceased in Israel, until that I Deborah arose, that I arose a mother in Israel. Judges 5:7

Isn't this a self-praise song?

Whoa! does Deborah take the leadership? No. She provides the courage for the sickly male leadership who had turned to other gods. Her leading was to try to arouse the truly masculine leadership. Deborah is a prophetess because she was a musical performer. But not in the CHURCH but at the places of watering or oasis:

They that are delivered from the noise of archers in the places of drawing water, there shall they rehearse the righteous acts of the Lord, even the righteous acts toward the inhabitants of his villages in Israel: Judges 5:11

the voice of the singers [e] at the watering places. They recite the righteous acts of the LORD, the righteous acts of his warriors [f] in Israel. "Then the people of the LORD went down to the city gates. Judges 5:11NIV

e11 Or 'archers'; the meaning of the Hebrew for this word is uncertain.
f11 Or 'villagers'

Awake, awake, Deborah: awake, awake, utter a song: arise, Barak, and lead thy captivity captive, thou son of Abinoam. Judges 5: 12

Then he made him that remaineth have dominion over the nobles among the people: the Lord made me have dominion over the mighty. Judges 5: 13

Out of Ephraim was there a root of them against Amalek; after thee, Judges 5: 14

Is this the way Rubel Shelly and John York want to win their battles? A feminist or effeminate leadership always turns to RELIGION and away from the WORD OF THE LORD.

Do you want to win your battles "for the Lord" with something much like HAND CLAPPING?

Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent. Judges 5: 24

He asked water, and she gave him milk; she brought forth butter in a lordly dish. Judges 5: 25

She put her hand to the nail, and her right hand to the workmens hammer; and with the hammer she smote Sisera, she smote off his head, when she had pierced and stricken through his temples. Judges 5: 26

At her feet he bowed, he fell, he lay down: at her feet he bowed, he fell: where he bowed, there he fell down dead. Judges 5: 27

The mother of Sisera looked out at a window, and cried through the lattice, Why is his chariot so long in coming? why tarry the wheels of his chariots? Judges 5: 28

Her wise ladies answered her, yea, she returned answer to herself, Judges 5: 29

Wow! Maybe we might enjoy the Shelly York seeker system using women as our advanced warriors?

Have they not sped? have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two; to Sisera a prey of divers colours, a prey of divers colours of needlework, of divers colours of needlework on both sides, meet for the necks of them that take the spoil? Judges 5: 30

So let all thine enemies perish, O Lord: but let them that love him be as the sun when he goeth forth in his might. And the land had rest forty years. Judges 5: 31

David sang to the Gentiles because God had let him put his feet on the necks of the Gentiles. David shed the blood OF the Gentiles to his own profit. However, Jesus Christ shed His blood FOR the Gentiles. So, what do we have when we are finished with the leadership of Deborah?

AND the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord: and the Lord delivered them into the hand of Midian seven years. Judges 6:1

Women are perfectly, 100% free. If they are willing to be led into apostacy by someone USURPING the congregation's authority they need to know that there are many churches where they can go and BE FREE without Shelly and York dying from trying to free them even it it has to be through DISHONORING the Words of God inspired by the writers. But,Shelly and York have given themselves FREEDOM.

If you have to deliberately SOW DISCORD all over the nation to FREE women deemed to be in slavery then it would be the right time to get fitted for a millstone. Here is what it means to RISE UP TO PLAY in repudiating the Word of God:

Ephraim Syrus On Our Lord notes that Sinai was a test. The Israelites were consummate idolaters in Egypt. However, God gave them one more shot at the Abrahamic Covenant. By removing Moses as a visible "authority figure" He wanted to let them answer their own prayer:

18. But when their heathenism from being inward became open, then Moses also from being hidden openly appeared; that he might openly punish those whose heathenism had revelled beneath the holy cloud which had overshadowed them.

But God removed the Shepherd of the flock from it for forty days, that the flock might show that its trust was fixed upon the calf.

And he was there in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him. Mark 1:13

While God was feeding the flock with all delights, it chose for itself as its Shepherd the calf, which was not able even to eat.

Moses who kept them in awe was removed from them, that the idolatry might cry aloud in their mouths,

which the restraint of Moses had kept down in their hearts. For they cried: Make us gods, to go before us.

19. But when Moses came down, he saw their heathenism revelling in the wide plain with drums and cymbals.

Speedily, he put their madness to shame by means of the Levites and drawn swords.

So likewise here, our Lord concealed His knowledge for a little when the sinful woman approached Him, that the Pharisee might form into shape his thought,

as his fathers had shaped the pernicious calf.

See some other women as Perhaps Paul's Examples

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