Rubel Shelly: Come Holy Spirit

Rubel Shelly: The Catholic cry is: Thus the Church asks us to often cry out: VENI, SANCTE SPIRITUS! COME, HOLY SPIRIT!

Rubel Shelly: All the commandments and laws of heaven cannot bring us back to life.

Calvinism says that were born dead: Paul will say that we were alive until confronted with the Law, Sin revives and we die (Rom 7:9)

Dr. Shelly attributes all of God's influences to a direct operation of the Holy Spirit as a third member of the "God family."

In his sermon, Dr. Shelly prays:

Come, Holy Spirit! (John 16:4b-33)

Rubel Shelly: When you hear the term "Holy Spirit," what comes to mind? Do you think of noisy Pentecost? Do you think of modern controversies over tongue-speaking? Do you visualize "tongues like fire" over the heads of the apostles?

My fear is that most of us think of the Holy Spirit as a radiating power or influence rather than in personal terms &endash; a mysterious It rather than a gracious Person. I suspect I know why we think that way.

However, Dr. Shelly believes that certain people can get the power by praying to the Holy Spirit and then WE can do the radiating. Too bad God is deprived of the power to image Himself and radiate His power outward:

Rubel Shelly:

(1) Holy Father, we praise you for calling us out of the darkness of this world and its idolatries

(2) into the glorious light of your Son.

(3) So fill and empower us, Holy Spirit, that we may radiate that light to others.

There is no Biblical evidence to support "praying to the Holy Spirit" if that person is a "person" separated from and superceeding Jesus in this, THE DISPENSATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. The Name of the Spirit Lord to Paul was: "I am Jesus of Nazareth" and he did not say: "My name is The Holy Spirit" because this is not a name.

Along with Catholics, Dr. Shelly apparently believes that the Lord's Supper (Holy Communion?) has the supernatural power to heal rather than, as Jesus and Paul insisted, just a way to remember and show forth (preach) the Death of Christ:

(4) The Real Presence of Jesus as a MASS.

Rubel Shelly: Through this cup and its holy power to heal, cure us of the world's infections,

purify us wholly for yourself, and immunize us to the demonic forces that would lure us back into slavery. We ask this in the name of our Great Physician. Amen.

Rubel Shelly: In both Greek and English, "Spirit" is a neuter noun. And we think of a neuter noun as an "it" rather than a he or she.

Thus we think of the Holy Trinity of orthodox theology in a peculiar way.

There is nothing in ORTHODIX TRINITARIANISM which ever defines the Godhead cut into three separated "persons." Paul Tillich notes that prior to the Liberal 19th century, to call God a "person" would be heresy. Karen Armstrong calls it "blasphemy." The word is personae and had nothing to do with person.

John Mark Hicks credits Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly with popularizing the Trinity of persons almost universally repudiated. Hicks notes that their INCARNATIONAL THEOLOGY may deny that "Christ came fully in the flesh." Of course, this is the motive for seeing worship as exhilarating and looking for SIGNS to CERTIFY that we are faithful. However, H. Leo Boles and the Gospel Advocate are the fathers of the "family of gods, kith and kin, a committee."

Lets pre-state the reason the Spirit is not seen as a person other than defining God as pure or holy Spirit (Holy means "with nothing but Spirit" defining God):

Hebrew Spirit: Ruwach (h7307) roo'-akh, roo'-akh; from 7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i. e. a sensible (or even violent exhalation; fig. life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extens. a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (includ. its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, * cool, courage, mind, * quarter, * side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, * vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

Hebrew Mind: Leb (h3820) labe; a form of 3824; the heart; also used (fig.) very widely for the feelings, the will and even the intellect; likewise for the centre of anything: - / care for, comfortably, consent, * considered, courag [-eous], friend [-ly], ([broken-], [hard-], [merry-], [stiff-], [stout-], double) heart ([-ed]), * heed, * I, kindly, midst, mind (-ed), * regard ([-ed)], * themselves, * unawares, understanding, * well, willingly, wisdom.

Greek Spirit: Pneuma (g4151) pnyoo'-mah; from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by anal. or fig. a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by impl.) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, doemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Comp. 5590.

Greek Mind: Nous (g3563) nooce; prob. from the base of 1097; the intellect, i.e. mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by impl. meaning: - mind, understanding. Comp. 5590.

Rubel Shelly: God the Father we visualize in warm, personal terms.

God the Word (i.e., Logos) we more often speak of as God the Son and think of personal images ranging from Bethlehem to Nazareth to Jerusalem.

Not so, however, with the Holy Spirit.

Why is it that we don't seem to think of the Son in warm, personal terms? Of course, the "three members of the god family" insists that the Son HAS HAD His dispensation and we are living in the "dispensation of the Holy Spirit." However, this is very wrong.

First, the Bible leaves no doubt. The pagan view was almost totally in terms of a triad of gods which came in FAMILY or generational groups. This might mean two, three, four or more with thousands of gods and lords in the pantheon.

Therefore, consistene with the universal practice of the Bible, the One True God is contrasted with the Pagan TRAIDS. If God is THREE Gods then there is no break with pagan superstition:

For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1 Cor 8:5

But to us there is but one God,

> the Father,

of whom are all things, and we in him; and

> one Lord Jesus Christ,

by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Cor 8:6

Here is the place where Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly lament that the Bible and most historical theology "has done them wrong" in not defending the blasphemous idea of three members of the God Family.

But, here was the place for God to say:

> one Holy Spirit; He Did Not.

Conclusion: Our spirit according to Walter Scott is the meaning of A holy spirit when it is wholly dedicated to God. But our body, soul and spirit does not make us TRIPLETS.

 

Full invisible Deity	Manifestations (personae)
	The Father	Of whom are all things	We IN Him
One God
	The Son or Lord	by whom are all things	We BY Him

There is a reason for not seeing the Holy Spirit (the Mind of Christ) as a warm, fuzzy person like "me.? The Father does not express love for the Spirit nor does Jesus. Spirit is personified just as our human spirit is personified as in: "She has a beautiful spirit." But, we do not mean that her spirit is a person. Paul always makes it clear that the Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God or the spirit of mankind. Spirit although personified like "wisdom" and lots of other words either means God Who is pure or Only Spirit, or it means the mental disposition of God or of mankind.

There is no familial relationship between the ONE GOD as Father and Son and the Holy Spirit as a "person":

Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Heb 1:4

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again,

I will be to him a Father,

and

he shall be to me a Son? Heb 1:5

Full invisible Deity	Manifestations (personae)
I	Will Be	TO Him	A Father
He	Will Be	TO Me	A Son

When you personify SPIRIT it is normally considered a SHE. Therefore, the true Catholic trinity if, like the Babylonian and man others, father, mother and infant son.

The man we know as Jesus Christ WAS FULLY GOD. He laid aside His great Glory and Majesty and came as the One Mediator, Intercessor or RIGHT ARM. As "sender" He is Father, as "sendee" He is the Son. As THOUGHT he is the Father of the Words as Son. Only God in Spirit Dimension and Son in the physical dimension can BRIDGE or be the DOOR between the two. The SON as just flesh could not bridge the gap. However, because He said "the Father is with Me" and "in Me" only as Full Deity could He allow us like "fish" to breath the air (spirit) of a wholly different dimension.

However, Jesus Christ said "the flesh counts for nothing, the Words which I speak are Spirit and Life." Therefore, God Incarnated Himself as flesh and as Jesus then Incarnated Himself in His Word. Paul said that the Holy Spirit is the Mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2).

If this is not the truth then the Bible is in error when either personifying "spirit" or when it assigns a neuter gender to it.

The Nicean Creed repudiates Dr. Shelly

The Nicean Creed speaks of Father and Son in personal terms but simply as an afterthought says. As the Godhead, the Theologians defined it as:

Thus also the declaration that "the Son is consubstantial with the Father" having been discussed,

it was agreed that this must not be understood in a corporeal sense,

or in any way analogous to mortal creatures;

inasmuch as it is neither by division of substance,

As further testimony they agreed that:

[We] also [believe] in the Holy Spirit.

Again, Dr. Shelly is alone with the charismatics!

Paul Tillich Proving Heresy

"The Spirit is sometimes personified in the Bible, as in John 16:7-8, and this has led many to believe that it is a person. They do so because they do not take into account an idiom of the original Greek language. In Greek, inanimate objects which in English would be couched in the neuter gender, are given a masculine or feminine gender, if those objects are identified with any particular individual. ' For example, a chair is described as "it" in English, because it is neuter, being neither masculine nor feminine. But in Greek that chair can be identified with its owner.

"If it belongs to me, the chair is described as he; if it belongs to my wife, as she. Click Here. "This God is never called a person. The word person was never applied to God in the Middle ages. The reason for this is that the three members of the Godhead were called personae (faces or countenances): The Father is persona, the Son is persona, and the Spirit is persona. Persona here means a special characteristic of the divine ground, expressing itself in an independent hypostasis.

"Thus, we can say that it was the nineteenth century which made God into a person, with the result that the greatness of the classical idea of God was destroyed by this way of speaking... but to speak of God as a person would have been heretical for the Middle Ages; it would have been to them a Unitarian heresy, because it would have conflicted with the statement that God has three personae, three expressions of his being. (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 190)

Wisdom is defined in much the same way as the Word. Wisdom is Sophia in Greek and her daughter and co-Logos is ZOE. This is why Sophia and ZOE are intimately connected with the notion of a personal Spirit. Wisdom is a "she" as "Spirit" is a "he" but as "God has His Word and His Wisdom with Him" we cannot believe that they are separated persons:

Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets: Pr.1:20

WISDOM hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars: Pr.9:1

"To our discussion of the Word we may here add the passage, "By the word of the Lord were the heavens rounded,

and all the power of them by the breath of His mouth."

Some refer this to the Saviour and the Holy Spirit. The passage, however, does not necessarily imply any more than that the heavens were founded by the reason (logos) of God,

as when we say that a house is built by the plan (logos) of the architect, or a ship by the plan (logos) of the shipbuilder.

In the same way the heavens were founded (made solid) by the Word of God, for they are of a more divine substance, which on this account is called solid; it has little fluidity for the most part, nor is it easily melted like other parts of the world, and specially the lower parts. On account of this difference the heavens are said in a special manner to be constituted by the Word of God.

"The saying then stands, first, "In the beginning was the Logos; "we are to place that full in our view; but the testimonies we cited from the Proverbs

led us to place wisdom first, and

to think of wisdom as preceding the Word which announces her.

"We must observe, then, that the Logos is in the beginning, that is, in wisdom, always. Its being in wisdom, which is called the beginning, does not prevent it from being with God and from being God, and it is not simply with God, but is in the beginning, in wisdom, with God. Origen speaks of personae.

John Mark Hicks attributes the revival of the ORTHODOX (Catholic, really) view of the trinity of separated persons to Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly. Much too late to be orthodox. If a clean or holy spirit means a separated person then does an unclean or unholy spirit means another person?

Scripture says:   Your attitude should be the kind that was shown us by Jesus Christ, Phil 2:5LIV who, though he was God, did not demand and cling to his rights as God, Phil 2:6 but laid aside his mighty power and glory, taking the disguise of a slave and becoming like men. Phil 2:7 And he humbled himself even further, going so far as actually to die a criminal's death on a cross. Phil 2:8   Paul also wrote:   For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:9   If Dr. Shelly is correct then Paul is wrong.   John Mark Hicks notes of Shelly and Lucado and Lanier:   "An emergent Trinitarianism is evident among us, not only among Churches of Christ, but also in other branches of the Stone-Campbell Movement.[36] Even though our biblical scholars are somewhat hesitant, this shift comes from several quarters. First, the previous generation's defense of the deity of Christ forced some reflection along this line....   But none of this discussion ever saw God as a tribe or clan.   "Fourth, we have shifted from an emphasis rooted on a common factual confession that Jesus is the Christ to a Trinitarian emphasis on his deity.   Trinitarianism has been (re)born among us. An incarnational theology, represented by Max Lucado in particular, dominates the current climate in our churches. Interestingly, this renewal has primarily developed along ethical and devotional/spiritual lines.   "While, as Doug reminds us, Lucado brilliantly brings Jesus to life for us and reminds us of his humanity, I fear that his incarnational theology undermines the very thing he wants to press--Christ's empathetic humanity.   "His theology seems to lack any significant kenosis. Instead, Mary "knows she is holding God." He is the "infant-God" to whom Mary prays. His Jesus counts the stars as he lies in his crib and remembers his creative work. Mary is tempted to call him "Father."   "This type of incarnational theology tends to undermine the humanity of Jesus because it assumes that Jesus did not really identify with the human psyche. The divine mind informs and empowers the human life of Jesus in such a way that he is no longer a genuine model for struggling Christians. I think his Christology needs a good dose of the incarnation as a participation in fallenness where Jesus assumes fallen human nature, struggles with sin and shares our weaknesses. In other words, Lucado's Johannine Christology needs to be tempered with the Christology of the synoptics and Hebrews. Contrary to Doug's reading, I believe Lucado ultimately subsumes the human under the divine.   Of course, there can only be one conclusion to this mysticism:   Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1Jn.4:2 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1Jn.4:3 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 2 Jn.1:7   Quoted from a fuller article on Shamash or Sun worship

The most common Biblical and historical identification of the "trinity" never sees the Godhead as three separated persons able to stand face to face: that is a brand new heresy. Rather, the church fathers speak of GOD the source blowing His BREATH out to deliver His WORDS.

Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: Mark 3: 28

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Mark 3: 29

Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. Mark 3: 30

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with

the spirit of his mouth,

and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2 Thess 2:8

If "spirit" is a god person then how about "brightness"?

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 2 Thess 2: 9

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thess 2: 10

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword,

that with it he should smite the nations: and

he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Re.19:15

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and

(1) he shall smite the earth with the

(2) rod of his mouth, and with

(3) the breath (Spirit) of his lips shall he slay the wicked. Is.11:4

In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride: but the lips of the wise shall preserve them. Pr.14:3

And the (1) Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord. Isa 59:20

As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord;

(2) My spirit that is upon thee,

(3) and my words which I have put in thy mouth,

shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever. Is.59:21

The inspired Word of a Spirit God is by definition Spirit.

(1) That thou turnest (2) thy spirit against God, and lettest (3) such words go out of thy mouth Jb.15:13

The Book of Jubilees, Chapter One reads:

And the Lord said unto Moses: 'I know their contrariness and their thoughts and their stiffneckedness, and they will not be obedient till they confess

23 their own sin and the sin of their fathers. And after this they will turn to Me in all uprightness and with all (their) heart and with all (their) soul,

and I will circumcise the foreskin of their heart and the foreskin of the heart of their seed, and I will create in them a holy spirit, and I will cleanse them so that they shall not turn away from Me from that day unto eternity.

JESUS identified His role as SON by the fact that He spoke only what He heard from the Father while the Jews were sons of the devil because they "spoke on their own." Therefore, here is the way to test sonship:

24 And their souls will cleave to Me and to all My commandments, and they will fulfil My

25 commandments, and I will be their Father and they shall be My children.

And they all shall be called children of the living God, and every angel and every spirit shall know, yea, they shall know that these are My children, and that I am their Father in uprightness and righteousness

Family relationships are Father and Son: Spirit is not the name of a familial relatinship. This is why Catholic Trinitarians make the Spirit into the Mother of the Gods so that their trinitarian is identical to the pagan trinitys: Father, Mother and little Son.

Rubel Shelly: Both the neuter noun and the biblical images of fire and anointing tend us away from personal to impersonal imagery, from Spirit as divine personality to Spirit as divine emanation. How unfortunate.

If it is true then it cannot be unfortunate unless there is a trend toward Tritheism or Polytheism or the need to diminish the role of Jesus Christ. Here is the almost universal meaning of "spirit":

Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind (Spirit): Ps.104:3

The wind (spirit) hath bound her up in her wings, and they shall be ashamed because of their sacrifices. Hosea 4:19

Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind (spirit) was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. Zec.5:9

Isaial 11 says that the spirit OF traits of knowledge would REST upon Jesus. Now, the Holy Spirit as a "little person" does not rest on top of other people. The symbol of the Spirit was a dove or Rock Pigeon which even in the ark spoke of delivering a message from God.

The word of God burns within us or burns us up. Again, a "person" would not be symbolized as a burning blaze of fire.

And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? Luke 24:32

Why would God use impersonal images if the Spirit did not intend impersonal concepts? Dr. Shelly has prewarned the audience that he will "take liberties" with John as John took liberties with the word of Jesus. However, this has the effect of denying the IMAGES used by the Holy Spirit in inspiring the apostles. But then again Dr. Shelly believes that John's images came from filtering philosophy and his own personal agenda. Narrative Theology holds that these writers intended to minimize the spirit as a third member of the God Family.

Why the Spirit of Christ use impersonal words to universally identify the spirit if the Spirit was a member of the 'God clan" (H. Leo Boles)?

Testimony of Scripture: Here is the meaning of the word Spirit. God is pure or holy Spirit because he is "wholly other" and not made of flesh and blood. Other than that, spirit truly does mean the power, influence, mental disposition, or vital principle.

Hebrew Spirit: Ruwach (h7307) roo'-akh, roo'-akh; from 7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i. e. a sensible (or even violent exhalation; fig. life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extens. a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (includ. its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, * cool, courage, mind, * quarter, * side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, * vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

Hebrew Mind: Leb (h3820) labe; a form of 3824; the heart; also used (fig.) very widely for the feelings, the will and even the intellect; likewise for the centre of anything: - / care for, comfortably, consent, * considered, courag [-eous], friend [-ly], ([broken-], [hard-], [merry-], [stiff-], [stout-], double) heart ([-ed]), * heed, * I, kindly, midst, mind (-ed), * regard ([-ed)], * themselves, * unawares, understanding, * well, willingly, wisdom.

Greek Spirit: Pneuma (g4151) pnyoo'-mah; from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by anal. or fig. a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by impl.) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, doemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Comp. 5590.

Greek Mind: Nous (g3563) nooce; prob. from the base of 1097; the intellect, i.e. mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by impl. meaning: - mind, understanding. Comp. 5590.

Testimony of the Classics and Church Fathers

Antiphon (480 - 411 BC)

"Often at such an hour as this,

when the body has given up the struggle,
its salvation is the spirit,
which is ready to fight on in the conscience that it is innocent.

"On the other hand, he whose conscience is guilty has

no worse enemy than that conscience;
for his spirit fails him which his body is still unwearied,
because it feels that what is approaching him
is the punishment of his iniquities.
But it is with no such guilty conscience that I come before you. (Antiphon On the murder or Herodes 5.93)

That was the identical image used by Paul in Romans 7 and 8 where the BODY is in conflict with the HUMAN SPIRIT and not with the HOLY SPIRIT person. Paul does not use the term "the Holy Spirit" in these chapters.

John of Damascus Book Four

"The book "Concerning the Orthodox Faith" Donatus Veronensis caused to be printed at Verona first in Greek only, and presented it to Clement the Seventh in the year 1531

Now we are baptized into the Holy Trinity because those things which are baptized have need of the Holy Trinity for their maintenance and continuance, and the three subsistences cannot be otherwise than present, the one with the other. For the Holy Trinity is indivisible.

"The Greek theologians, founding on the primary sense of the Greek term Pneuma (spirit), and on certain passages of Scripture in which the word seemed to retain that sense more or less (especially Psalm xxxiii. 6. in the Vulgate rendering, verbo Dei coeli formati sunt: et spiritu oris ejus omnis virtus eorum),

spoke of the Holy Ghost as proceeding from the Father like the breath of His mouth in the utterance or emission of His Word.

so the Holy Spirit is like an impulse and movement within that supernatural essence.

Jonathan Edwards - Unpublished Manuscript [He didn't dare speak his mind]

"There are two more eminent and remarkable images of the triad among the creatures.

(1) The one is in the spiritual creation, the soul of man.

(2) There is the mind, and

the understanding or idea, and

 

(3) the spirit of the mind as it is called in Scripture,

i.e., the disposition, the will or affection.

 

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit,
because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Ro.8:27

 

And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; Ep.4:23

 

Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ:
that whether I come and see you, or else be absent,
I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit,
with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; Ph.1:27

 

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love,
and of a sound mind. 2Ti.1:7

The other is in the visible creation, viz., the Sun.

In the image of the sun Jonathan Edwards uses the very common image but no one ever uses the Shelly - Lucado image of three persons:

(1) The father is as the substance of the Sun. (By substance I don't mean in a philosophical sense, but the Sun as to its internal constitution.)

(2) The Son is as the brightness and glory of the disk of the Sun or that bright and glorious form under which it appears to our eyes.

(3) The Holy Ghost is the action of the Sun which is within the Sun in its intestine heat, and, being diffusive, enlightens, warms, enlivens and comforts the world.

The Holy Trinity is a Catholic dogma. The early writers of theology and church history never saw the God separated into a Lucado-Shelly "family" or a H. Leo Boles "kith and kin, tribe, committee of separated persons."

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1Jn.5:6

The Spirit-Paraclete

Rubel Shelly: In the Gospel of John, Jesus invites us to know about, expect, and experience the Holy Spirit. And he speaks of the third member of the divine family in terms that are personal.

In fact, he challenged his original followers to think of the Holy Spirit in the same personal ways they had experienced him.

This is true because the "another comforter" would be named "Jesus of Nazareth" and therefore would be invisible but otherwise identical. The "Spirit" however would be the Words which Jesus spoke while on earth or that which He would reveal only to chosen, trained and empowered apostles.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16

This was not to be the Holy Spirit as a Family Member but:

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18

When He came to John He said: "I am Jesus of Nazareth." This is exactly what Jesus said about His Word as Spirit:

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

If your wife shows up at work don't ever introduce her as HOLY SWEETNESS but "Sally."

"...When the apostles were ordained the miraculous SIGNS were promised to them, 3:15 Matt. 10:1...These SIGNS were thus credentials for the apostles and their gospel message, SEALS that proved their message genuine and exhibited the fact that

the living and risen Jesus was present with them and working through them." (Lenski, Commentary on Mark, p. 768).

If this is such a radical departure from the universal meaning of "spirit" why do the disciples not Ask Jesus about how to worship or work with the Holy Spirit Person?

When Paul questioned the Spirit Lord the answer was: "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute." Since God is pure or Holy Spirit and full Deity dwells in Jesus Christ (Col 2:9) then the word SPIRIT in the first instance stands for God who is pure, holy or wholly Spirit and is not a person. My dog has personality but he is not a person. What Dr. Shelly is preaching has always been considered blasphemy in history:

Paul Tillich proving Blasphemy

"There is much gnostic Marcionism in them, that is, a dualistic blasphemy of the Creator God. They put the Savior God in such opposition to the Creator God that, although they never fall into any real heresy, they implicitly blaspheme the divine creation by identifying it with the sinful state of reality.

Against this tendency Irenaeus said that God is one; there is no duality in him. Law and gospel, creation and salvation, are derived from the same God." (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 42)

"This God is never called a person. The word person was never applied to God in the Middle ages. The reason for this is that the three members of the trinity were called personae (faces or countenances): The Father is persona, the Son is persona, and the Spirit is persona. Persona here means a special characteristic of the divine ground, expressing itself in an independent hypostasis.

"Thus, we can say that it was the nineteenth century which made God into a person, with the result that the greatness of the classical idea of God was destroyed by this way of speaking... but to speak of God as a person would have been heretical for the Middle Ages; it would have been to them a Unitarian heresy, because it would have conflicted with the statement that God has three personae, three expressions of his being. (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 190)

John's account of the gospel was written around 100 A. D. and Rubel Shelly claims that John sifted the almost lost Word through philosophy and wrote his gospel account based on his own personal agenda. However, the equivalent Hebrew word, Dabar, appears in Genesis. Contrary to Rubel Shelly's neo-spirit Karen Armstrong, ex nun and professor of three religions wrote:

Try to grasp that God is invisible, incomprehensible to the human mind. Therefore, when the Spirit Deity works within the physical realm He is Water, Spirit, Word, Fire, Arm, Right Hand, Door, Manna and etc. However, there is not a fourth member of the "god clan" named FIRE.

Karen Armstrong Proving Blasphemy

"The author was not using the Greek word logos in the same way as Philo: he appears to have been more in tune with Palestinian than Hellenized Judaism. In the Aramaic translations of the Hebrew scriptures known as the targums, which were being composed at this time, the term Membra (word) is used to describe God's activity in the world. It performs the same function as other technical terms like "glory," "Holy Spirit" and "Shekinah" which

> emphasized the distinction between God's presence in the world,

> and the incomprehensible reality of God itself.

Like the divine Wisdom (Sophia), the "Word" symbolized God's original plan for creation. When Paul and John spoke about Jesus as though he had some kind of preexistent life, they were not suggesting that he was a second divine "person" in the later Trinitarian sense. They were indicating that Jesus had transcended temporal and individual modes of existence. Because the "power" and "Wisdom" that he represented were activities that derived from God, he had in some way expressed "what there was from the beginning." (Karen Armstrong, A History of God, p. 89).

"In his letter To Alabius: That there are not Three Gods, Gregory of Nyssa outlined his important doctrine of the inseparability or coinherence of the three divine persons or hypostases.

One should not think of God splitting himself up into three parts;

that was a grotesque and indeed blasphemous idea.

"God expressed himself wholly and totally in each one of these three manifestations when he wished to reveal himself to the world... the Divine Nature is equally present in each phase of the operation... The three persons do not exist side by side in the divine world." (Armstrong, Karen, History of God, 116-117)

However, to anyone who can read the symbolic language of God working in the physical elements, it is clear that when Christ breathes His Spirit upon People it is in speaking His Word which, He said, is spirit and life;

"The Spirit accompanies the divine Word of the Father, just as the breath (Greek, pneuma; Latin, spiritus) accompanies the word spoken by a man. 

The three persons do not exist side by side in the divine world.  We can compare them to the presence of different fields of knowledge in the mind of an individual: philosophy may be different from medicine,

but it does not inhabit a separate sphere of consciousness. The different sciences pervade one another, fill the whole mind and yet remain distinct. (A History of God, Karen Armstrong, p. 117)

See Boethius on Not Three Gods.

So, we have to put our trust in Rubel Shelly or almost the totality of Scripture and historical scholarship.

Rubel Shelly: He has already told the apostles: "I have said these things to you while I am still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you" (John 14:25-26).

The Spirit would take Jesus' place in their midst both to "teach" and "remind" them of what had happened during his ministry.

We have noted that "denying that Christ came fully in the flesh" is bound up in the notion that the Father had his work, the Son had His work but the Holy Spirit TOOK THE PLACE of Jesus. If I take the place of John Doe then John Doe is retired from the scene. This is the meaning of being anti-Christian.

If "Casper" is visible in our midst and then manifests himself in an invisible form and comes in the name of Casper as a ghost, then we are not silly enough to say that Casper is twins. Jesus said that He would not pass judgment but that His Words would pass judgment. In the same way Paul wrote in WORDS:

Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 1Co.5:3

When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 1Co.5:4

As the "body of Christ" we do not assemble in the name of The Family of God which exists only in heaven. God has a name. The Spirit has a name. It is Jesus Christ.

While God dwells within our "body" the place is the "spirit" or human mind: He dwells in our heart by faith. Paul made the distinction to show that God dwelling within us means that we are ONE WITH HIM IN SPIRIT because the Holy Spirit does not dwell within the carnal "body" which must be considered "dead" before Christ will live within us;

What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 1 Cor 6:16

But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. 1Co.6:17

The difference between a beast and Adam who was formed in the sense of being formed in the womb is that God breathed a spirit within him which allowed him to hold God's Spirit or mental disposition in our heart:

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1 Cor 6:19

Thefore, the Spirit of Christ lives within our spirit when we are ONE WITH HIM IN SPIRIT.

If the Comforter was SENT IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST then we would expect that His NAME would be Jesus and NOT a third person whose first name was "Holy." When Christ appeared to Paul in Spirit form:

And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. Ac.22:8

Notice that "things equal to the same things are equal to one another."

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Jn.14:13

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Jn.14:26

Therefore, the Holy Spirit's Name is Jesus: that is why the term is personified.

After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. Acts 16:7

When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to. Acts 16:7NIV

NO, the Spirit of Truth, righteousness and judgment would NOT TAKE THE PLACE of Jesus: the Spirit is Jesus living in another Spiritual dimension and yet "not far from all of us."

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Mt.18:20

By saying that "The Spirit would take Jesus' place in their midst both to "teach" and "remind" them of what had happened during his ministry isn't there a reluctance to PERMIT Jesus to be the total Lord of this the dispensation of full Deity?

T. W. Brents wrote:

The work of Christ is the work of God. Christ is not a 'delegate' whom God sent, nor is the Holy Spirit an external agent sent by the Father and the Son. The work of Christ and the Holy Spirit is as much the work of God as is the work of the Father.

Strong wrote:

The Father is not God as such; for God is not only Father, but also Son and Holy Spirit. The Son is not God as such; for God is not only Son, but also Father and Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not God as such because God is also Father and Son.

The following table shows that the Godhead is not God, Jesus and Spirit person. Rather God as invisible, incomprehensible Being living in the dimension of Spirit, manifests Himself in HUMAN TERMS as Father, Son and Spirit. Paul said that we are body, soul and spirit but we are not triplets, and the Spirit is the Mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2).

	Father
God as Full Deity	Son
	Spirit

Rubel Shelly: In our text for today, Jesus returns to his promise of Holy Spirit presence, teaching, and guidance among those disciples. He told them:

"I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. But now I am going to him who sent me; yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your hearts. Nevertheless I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will prove the world wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because they do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will see me no longer; about judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.

I have emphasized some words proving that the words Dr. Shelly speak prove that it was Jesus who would return as the Comforter and teacher:

"I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for

he will not speak on his own, [My spirit must speak what my mind speaks]

but will speak whatever he hears, [Jesus had no independent words: what the Son heard the Father speak, He spoke]

and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

He will glorify me, because he will take what is mine and declare it to you. [Again the Spirit has no separated existence with new words which the Father and Son were unable to speak]

All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you" (16:4b-15).

THESE words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: Jn.17:1

My spirit or breath does not speak on its on. My words are not a separated person. In the same way the most common explanation of the trinity is that of a Spirit Being Who has his Word and Wisdom with Him. Dr. Shelly is out on a limb with pure charismatics.

Jesus had said:

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16

Look at the whole verse 4 where Dr. Shelly omits verse 4a

"But these things I have spoken to you, that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you. John 16:4

Jesus the Spirit does not promise to bring to OUR memory that which He did not speak in OUR presence. This promise was limited to the Apostles and the Apostles were convinced by being eyewitnesses that their record was true and final.

As John 14:16 proves that Jesus would be the One and Only Comforter as Full Deity, the things Jesus did not teach in person HE would continue to teach through His Spirit whose name is Jesus Christ:

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. John 16:12

As the Spirit of Truth (which is not another person) Jesus would SPEAK to them in the same breathing or inspiring process which He, as the Spirit of Christ, spoke to the prophets (1 Pet. 1:11)

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16:13

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2Co.3:17

The Apostles used that to validate the Scripture which they left us so that OUR memory would be refreshed in the Bible because WE were not there with Jesus in person and therefore WE have nothing of that event to REMEMBER.

God is manifested as Father, Son and Spirit: The Son validated His Sonship by speaking only what He heard from the Father. He identified the Devil as a liar because "he speaks on his own." The Spirit, in turn, would speak only what He heard from the Son. Therefore, God functions in human-like terms by being the Speaker, the Repeater and The Breath which propels the Word into the world.

Notice that this new, invisible COMFORTER would be the same One who dwelt with the Apostles in clear sight:

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17

The Seven Spirits of God:

If Dr. Shelly is correct then why did Isaiah promise the seven Spirits of God in impersonal terms related the human MIND which is the human SPIRIT? If there are SEVEN SPIRITS then there would have to be SEVEN MORE PERSONS.

We can understand the nature of the Holy Spirit by looking at the prophecy of what would rest upon Messiah. The menorah or seven candlesticks is a visible manifestation of Jesus as the LIGHT OF THE WORLD as the Seven Spirits of God. These were not seven little persons but seven qualities of knowing about God.

AND there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: Isaiah 11:1

And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord; Isaiah 11: 2

And shall make him of quick understanding (spiritual) in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: Isaiah 11: 3

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath (Holy Spirit h7307) of his lips shall he slay the wicked. Isaiah 11: 4

When the IMAGE rested on Jesus it was not the image of a little person: it was the image of a dove or Rock Pigeon which is the carrier of information from one place to another. The Dove does not make up its own "sermons" and "hymns" and steal the glory from the sender.

Here is a supernatural sign: I have never heard anyone who teaches that the Holy Spirit is a third person of the GOD FAMILY literally living inside of a carnal body ever able to even put this verse into print:

I will not leave you comfortless (bereaved orphans): I will come to you. John 14:18

A third person called the Holy Spirit is never identified as a father and therefore when we cease to be orphans it is because we are adopted to and by Jesus Christ.

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Ep.1:5

And as FULL DEITY (Col 2:9) with nothing left over to make a THIRD MEMBER OF THE GOD FAMILY:

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jn.20:28

I and my Father are one. Jn.10:30

Only God can mediate between man and God: assuredly no "musical worship team can lead you into the presence of God."

MY little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1Jn.2:1

Therefore, the ANOTHER COMFORTER is named Jesus Christ just as Jesus holds all of the authority of Father, Son and Spirit as ONE NAME (singular) and therefore Peter baptized in the name of Jesus Christ or he would have fractionated the Godhead into three persons. Later, when the Catholics did that they logically baptized THREE TIMES.

You will notice that Father, Son and Spirit are not names. Therefore, you had better quit worshiping the "holy trinity" by worship three names:

	Father
God as Full Deity	Son
	Spirit

All authority of Father, Son and Spirit is vested in Jesus Christ in Whom dwelled full Deity. Therefore, Peter baptized in the name of Jesus Christ because name is singular and Father, Son and Spirit are not names.

Furthermore, "god" is a generic name for all kinds of gods. If we want to be part of the Family of God then we had better wear His Name which is Jesus Christ.

Rubel Shelly: Notice what the version I am using calls the Holy Spirit in the two texts we have read. The New Revised Standard Version has Jesus calling him "the Advocate" &endash; as opposed to the King James Version's "Comforter" or the New International Version's "Counselor." The original term in John's text is parakletos. Because of its background in court settings, I suspect "Comforter" is too passive a rendering.

The Holy Spirit represents our interests, stands in for us, and goes to bat for us (cf. 1 John 2:1).

But, my version is not fearful of naming the Paraklete:

MY little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti.2:5

 

"Christian writers have seen in various references to the Spirit of Yahweh in the Old Testament an anticipation of the doctrine of the Holy Spirit. The Hebrew word ruah (usually translated "spirit") is often found in texts referring to the free and unhindered activity of God, either in creating or in revitalizing creation, especially in connection with the prophetic word or messianic expectation.

There was, however, no explicit belief in a separate divine person in biblical Judaism; in fact, the New Testament itself is not entirely clear in this regard. One suggestion of such belief is the promise of another helper, or intercessor (paraclete), that is found in the Gospel According to John.

"The definition that the Holy Spirit was a distinct divine Person equal in substance to the Father and the Son and not subordinate to them came at the Council of Constantinople in AD 381, following challenges to its divinity. Britannica on Paraclete

The idea of the Paraclete is not represented as a defense lawyer. Rather, Christ is the Atonement and propitiation of sin ONLY BECAUSE He is full Deity:

38. Christ as Paraclete, as Propitiation, and as the Power of God. Origen on John

"But none of the names we have mentioned expresses His representation of us with the Father, as He pleads for human nature,

and makes atonement for it; the Paraclete, and the propitiation, and the atonement. He has the name Paraclete in the Epistle of John: [John 2:1, 2.]

"If any man sin, we have a Paraclete with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

"And He is said in the same epistle to be the atonement [ ilasmoj ] for our sins. Similarly, in the Epistle to the Romans, He is called a propitiation: [Rom. iii. 25' "Whom God set forth to be a propitiation through faith."

Of this proportion there was a type in the inmost part of the temple, the Holy of Holies, namely, the golden mercy-seat placed upon the two cherubim.

"But how could He ever be the Paraclete, and the atonement, and the propitiation without the power of God, which makes an end of our weakness, flows over the souls of believers, and is administered by Jesus, who indeed is prior to it and Himself the power of God, who enables a man to say: [ Philipp. iv. 13.] "I can do all things through Jesus Christ who strengtheneth me." Whence we know that Simon Magus, who gave himself the title of "The power of God, which is called great," was consigned to perdition and destruction, he and his money with him. We, on the contrary, who confess Christ as the true power of God, believe that we share with Him, inasmuch as He is that power, all things in which any energy resides.

God's nature as a human is like a DOOR which connects between the physical realm and the Spiritual realm. Jesus could not be such a mediator without also being Full Deity.

So, why is Jesus Christ--and not a "third member of the god family"--competent to be our advocate?

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1 John 2:3

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 2:5

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1 John 2:6

Only One who has experienced death can be the Mediator:

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Hebrews 9:22

It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. Hebrews 9:23

For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Hebrews 9:24