Royce Ogle Refutes Kenneth Sublett on Instruments

Is there any Bible topic or any theological subject that is more important to you than instrumental music in churches of Christ?
His answer was stunning. “No” was the answer. He went on to tell me how two of his churches had been stolen by the instrumentalist, so no, nothing was more important to him than fighting against this evil.

From what Christ called "the singing and harp playing in the garden of Eden" to the "Babylon mother of harlots" in Revelation, musical instruments have been used as "magical" to silence the Words of God.  Therefore, instruments are always connected with God abandoning people and turning them over and into a lake of fire.  That should be important enough not to mock people who just post the text.

There is no massive, deliberate sowing of discord to lie, cheat and steal other people's property and church life which has not as it's CORE imposing performance singers leading to Instruments.  Mechanical instruments are sourced out of Satan (says the Bible and all traditions) to SILENCE the Voice of the Victim:  music was always known as Sacred Violence.  Instruments are used as the MARK of those who intend to SHUT GOD'S MOUTH.  If you cannot neuter the musicators there is no way to prevent masses from being AFFLICTED.  Royce knows of NO OTHER subject which has not been used to seduce the bloggers and churches.

Royce implies that it is perfectly acceptable to, as they say, infiltrate and divert a peaceable church of Christ and turn it into a "Theater for Holy Entertainment." Evil is the:

Men with no Role and no Dole who cannot bring themselves to confront the MASCULINE, Rational, Spiritual Word and teach it as it has been taught now see Godliness as a means of financial gain: OCCUPATION only.  However, it is a fact that getting paid for performing with any of your body parts when Jesus paid it all and taught it all is called PROSTITUTION.

X.Mem.1.6.13  Xen. Mem. 1.6.1

To this Socrates replied: “Antiphon, it is common opinion among us
        in regard to beauty and wisdom
                that there is an honourable
                and a shameful way of bestowing them.
        For to offer one's beauty for money to all comers is called prostitution;

        But we think it virtuous to become friendly with
              a lover who is known to be a man of honour.

        So is it with wisdom. Those who offer it to all comers for money
               are known as sophists, prostitutors of wisdom

        But we think that he who makes a friend of one whom he knows to be gifted
               by nature, and teaches him all the good he can,

               fulfils the duty of a citizen and a gentleman.

Sophis-tēs , ou, o(, A. master of one's craft, adept, expert, of diviners, Hdt.2.49; of poets, “meletan sophistais prosbalonPi.I.5(4).28, cf. Cratin.2; of musicians, “sophistēs . . parapaiōn khelunA.Fr.314, cf. Eup.447, Pl.Com. 140; sophistē Thrēki (sc. Thamyris) E.Rh.924, cf. Ath.14.632c: with modal words added, “hoi s. tōn hierōn melōn[melody in the holy place--a death sentence for any Levite]

2 Co.1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience,
        that in simplicity and godly sincerity,
        not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God,
        we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to youward.

2 Cor 1:12 gar kaukhēsis hēmōn hautē estin, to marturion tēs suneidēseōs hēmōn, hoti en hagiotēti kai eilikrinia tou theou, kai ouk en sophia sarkikē all' en khariti theou, anestraphēmen en kosmō, perissoterōs de pros humas:

: the foregoing personified, as wife of Hephaestus, Il. 18.382.—Pl., Kharites, the Graces, handmaids of Aphrodīte, Il. 5.338, Il. 14.267, Il. 17.51, Od. 6.18, Od. 18.194.

, Ion. -, h(, prop.A.cleverness or skill in handicraft and art, as in carpentry, tektonos, hos rha te pasēs eu eidē s. Il.15.412; of the Telchines, Pi.O.7.53; entekhnos s., of Hephaestus and Athena, Pl.Prt.32 1d; of Daedalus and Palamedes, X.Mem.4.2.33, cf. 1.4.2; in music and singing, tekhnē kai s. h.Merc.483, cf. 511; in poetry, Sol.13.52, Pi.O.1.117, Ar.Ra.882, X.An.1.2.8, etc.; in driving, Pl. Thg.123c; in medicine or surgery, Pi.P.3.54; in divination, S.OT 502 (lyr.); “dusthanatōn hupo sophias eis gēras aphiketoPl.R.406b; s. dēmēgorikē, dikanikē, ib.365d; peri Homērou s. Id.Ion 542a; “ou sophia alla phusei poieinId.Ap.22b; “sēmainontes tēn s . . ., hoti aretē tekhnēs estinArist.EN1141a12: rare in pl., Pi.O.9.107, Ar.Ra.676 (lyr.), IG12.522 (vase, v B.C.).

2Cor. 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God:
        but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
17 ou gar esmen hōs hoi polloi kapēleuontes ton logon tou theou, all' hōs ex eilikrinias, all' hōs ek theou katenanti theou en Khristō laloumen.

kapēl-euō ,
A. to be a retail-dealer, drive a petty trade, Hdt.1.155, 2.35, Isoc.2.1, Nymphod.21, IG11(2).161 A16 (Delos, iii B. C.), BGU1024 vii 23 (iv A. D.); di' apsukhou boras sitois kapēleu' drive a trade, chaffer with your vegetable food, E.Hipp.953.
Hdt. 1.155 [3] When Cyrus heard of this on his journey, he said to Croesus, “What end to this business, Croesus? It seems that the Lydians will never stop making trouble for me and for themselves. It occurs to me that it may be best to make slaves of them; for it seems I have acted like one who slays the father and spares the children. [2] So likewise I have taken with me you who were more than a father to the Lydians, and handed the city over to the Lydians themselves; and then indeed I marvel that they revolt!” So Cyrus uttered his thought; but Croesus feared that he would destroy Sardis, and answered him thus: [3

“O King, what you say is reasonable. But do not ever yield to anger, or destroy an ancient city that is innocent both of the former and of the present offense. For the former I am responsible, and bear the punishment on my head; while Pactyes, in whose charge you left Sardis, does this present wrong; let him, then, pay the penalty.
        [4] Grant, then, forgiveness to the Lydians,
        and to
make sure of their never rebelling against thee, or alarming thee more,
        send and
forbid them to keep any weapons of war,
                  command them
to wear tunics under their cloaks, and to put buskins upon their legs,
......        ....and make them bring up their sons to cithern-playing (Kitharizein), singing (psallein),
...        .......and shop-keeping (Hucksterism). 
So wilt thou soon see them become women instead of men,
and there will be no more fear of their revolting from thee

John speaks of the LOCUSTS which in the literature are the MUSES (Rev 18:22) known as dirty as dirty adultersses.  It would be a rare MARK when males fell into this.  The Locust CAST OUT Christ's elect and holds those with the mark of the beast (a new style of music and drama) captive so they CANNOT revolt against the unleased Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon).
II. c. acc., sell by retail, “ton herpinHippon.51.
2. metaph., k. ta prēgmata, of Darius, Hdt.3.89; k. ta mathēmata sell learning by retail, hawk it about, Pl. Prt.313d; “k. ton logon tou theou2 Ep.Cor.2.17; so eoiken ou kapēleusein makhēn will not peddle in war, i. e. fight half-heartedly, A.Th. 545; “k. Khariti tēn amoibēnEpicur.Sent.Vat.39; k. tēn politeian traffic in grants of citizenship, D.C.60.17; k. tēs hōras anthos or tēn hōran, of prostitutes, Ph.2.394,576; eirēnēn pros Rhōmaious Khrusiou k. Hdn.6.7.9; tukhē kapēleuousa . . ton bion playing tricks with life, corrupting it, AP9.180 (Pall.).

(g1505( i-lik-ree'-ni-ah; from 1506; clearness, i.e. (by impl.) purity (fig.): - sincerity.

The EVIL is lying about all of the Bible and church history to say that when God ABANDONED Israel to worship the starry host on their way back to Babylon is NOT as revealed by "a" spirit God's Command that WE must have YOUR church and if necessary cast you out of your synagogue so we can perform instrumental music AS worship. 

God hates those who took the music INTO the Gerezim temple, said that they STARVED people for lack of the Word, defined them by the sign of the SUMMER FRUITS (dogs, Catamites) and said that He would never pass by again.

Amos 5   Amos 8  Revelation 17 speaking of the end-time rise of the Babylon Mother of Harlots uses the same "lusted after fruits" as speakers, singers and instrument players: John calls them the same sorcerers who HAD deceived the whole world and they would be cast alive into the lake of fire.  Christ defined the PROPHETIC TYPE in Isaiah 30 where the MARKS in sight and sound of God driving His enemies into "hell" will be the Wind, String and percussion instruments.  Christ said that Lucifer brought instruments which discorded the unstable into the Garden of Eden "as a singing and harp-playing prostitute."

Martin Luther said something like "If you do not address the attack upon the church at hand then you are a coward." The issue at hand is a well financed effort to define ANTI-instrumental churches of Christ as legalists and patternists.  Since that is the well-documented but little successful effort to RESTRUCTURE all churches of Christ. the important issue at hand is to convince people that Royce Ogle, who defends all of the sowers of discord, just fabricate the notion of MUSIC as having any part in the Synagogue or Church of Christ.  Royce would identify fanatices as those who oppose the fanatics boasting about "infiltrating and diverting" your church and destroy the unity of the group to "turn it into a theater for holy entertainment." That is the Purpose Driven Cult's purpose to my direct knowledge.

Music has always been the MARK of people who refuse to just read and discuss the Word of God.

We know from the boasts that music was the weapon evil men intended to use to force churches of Christ to join with the NACC as instrumental churches. For instance, we wrote about Rick Atchley a decade before he heard that "spirit" tell him it was time to preach that sermon as the And/Or silliness to justify the use of instruments.  In the same wineskins:

Rick Atchley: The era of the progressive Church of Christ is over.

Back in the 80’s you could go to any major city, especially in the South, and you could find a progressive Church of Christ — and if they would preach grace, and if they would put words on a screen, and if they would let divorced people place membership, they would grow.

The generation of Boomers has enough denominational loyalty that they’re going to find the least legalistic

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
        for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
        They never heard the sermons we heard.
        They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
        with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.

        We discipled our children to leave our Movement!

Royce Ogle: When patternism becomes sin

The title of this article is rather strong indictment. Tell me I’m wrong! At least one book has been written, plus scores of articles in periodicals and on blogs, condemning North Richland Hills Church of Christ in Texas,  for its decision to include instrumental music in one of many Sunday services.


That thing that usually gets one banned from bloggervile is the absolute proof from the "singing and harp playing prostitute in the garden of Eden" to the Babylon mother of whores who uses lusted after "fruits" [same as used by Amos] as speakers, singers and instrument players Jwhich ohn identified as sorcerers in Revelation 17-18.

Nimrod led about a musical chorus and promised that he could "regenerate morals by external means."  He was the hunter AGAINST God as the Beast is in Revelation.

"Philodemus considered it paradoxical that music should be regarded as veneration of the gods while musicians were paid for performing this so-called veneration. Again, Philodemus held as self-deceptive the view that music mediated religious ecstasy. He saw the entire condition induced by the noise of cymbals and tambourines as a disturbance of the spirit.

He found it significant that, on the whole, only women and effeminate men fell into this folly.

Accordingly, nothing of value could be attributed to music; it was no more than a slave of the sensation of pleasure, which satisfied much in the same way that food and drink did.

        "Now, many a man from the false religions, which are not ashamed of criticising what is noble, will ask: how can there be a feast without carousing and overeating, without the pleasant company of hosts and guests, without quantities of unmixed wine, without richly set tables and highly stacked provisions of everything that pertains to a banquet, without pageantry and jokes,

bantering and merry-making to the accompaniment of flutes and citharas, the sound of drums and cymbals and other effeminate and frivolous music of every king,

enkindling unbridled lusts with the help of the sense of hearing. For in and through the same [pleasures] those persons openly seek their joy, for what true joy is their they do not know.

"Women and girls from the different ranks of society were proud to enter the service of the gods as singers and musicians. The understanding of this service was universal: these singers constituted the 'harem of the gods'." (Fr Johannas Quasten)

"The trained musicians which eventually appear around the time of David and Solomon mark a distinctive change in the history of Jewish music.

Before this time much of the music was made by women." (Zondervan Pict., Music p. 313)

    "Before the establishment of the kingdom under Saul, it was the women who, as in every young civilization, played a major part in the performance of music. Such figures as Miriam, Deborah, Jephthah's daughter, and the women hailing the young hero David have become almost archetypes of female musicians.

"Characteristic of all these cases is the familiar picture of a female chorus, dancing and singing, accompanied by frenzied drum-beating.

This is the scene known to the entire Near East, and not "even the severe rule of Islam could wholly suppress this age-old practice." (Int Dict of the Bible, Music, p. 457).


If disciples know that the CENI is to teach what Jesus Christ commanded to be taught and observed, and we know that Christ outlawed vocal or instrumental rejoicing including elevated form of speech [Synagogue], then we know that when men deliberately lie about all of the "instrument passages" they intend to "silence the voice of the victim." If Hezekiah's plague stopping exorcism used as THE proof for imposing instruments was almost three hundred years removed from the patternism David used to stop a plague, isn't it pretty hard to stretch that to three times in a week?

History knows that music in sacrificial systems (not commanded by God) was called SACRED VIOLENCE. The Levites made that "music" to warn any godly civillian that they would be executed if they remained inside the gates. Their prophesying with instruments is defined as SOOTHSAYING with instruments. This is what God commanded through Moses: David and not God commanded instruments to be used by Levites who stood in ranks to stick you with a sword if you came near.

By using the Levites as authority to say that a spirit told him that God commanded instrumental praise and we MUST NOT be disobedient, those preaching "instruments" are teaching the PROPHETIC TYPE of Soothsayers with Instruments warning that you would be killed if you entered into the Holy Place as a prophetic type of the body of Christ.

If you have been suckered into agreeing with intentional sowing of discord to "prune" your church to make a way for using instruments and instrumentalists then you will NOT pay attention and understand the facts.

Christ wrote through the prophets and the Church is built upon the Prophets and Apostles. All of the prophets associate instruments with the pagan religion Israel brought with them from Egypt.

Christ identifies the Lucifer Character as "the singing and harp playing prostitute" in the garden of Eden.  If someone wants to do that in your church why do you believe that you have failed to be a watchman on the wall.  Why would you mock those who refuse to take your mark?  If Christ defined the MARKS in sight and sound of God driving His enemies into "hell" then how can you take the list compiled by the NACC and a few dupes to COMMAND people to do just that?


And his breath [SPIRIT], as rushing water in a valley, reach reach as far as the neck, and be divided, to confound the nations for their vain error; error also shall pursue them and overtake them. Isaiah 30:28 LXX

Must ye always rejoice, and go into my holy places continually, as they that keep a feast? and must ye go with a pipe, as those that rejoice into the mountain of the Lord, to the God of Israel Isaiah 30:29 LXX

and the Lord shall make his glorious voice to be heard and the wrath of his arm, to make a display with wrath and anger and devouring flame: he shall lighten terribly, and his wrath shall be as water and violent hail. Isaiah 30:30 LXX

For by the voice of the Lord the Assyrians shall be overcome, even by the stroke where with he shall smite them. Isaiah 30:31 LXX

And it shall happen to him from every side, that they from whom their hope of assistance was, in which he trusted, themselves shall war against him in turn with drums and with harp. Isaiah 30:32 LXX

For thou shalt be required before thy time: has it been prepared for thee also to reign? nay, God has prepared for thee a deep trench, wood piled fire and much wood: the wrath of the Lord shall be as a trench kindled with sulphur. Isaiah 30:33 LXX

"This valley was early selected as the seat of the worship of Moloch, where his rites were celebrated by erecting a huge brazen image with a hollow trunk and arms, which was heated, and within which, or on the arms of which, children were placed as a sacrifice to the horrid idol. To drown their cries, drums were beaten, which were called Tophim." (Barnes, Isaiah 33, p. 463).

"We may understand a thing as spoken generally, even when it requires a certain special interpretation to be given to it. For some things spoken with a special reference contain in them general truth.

When God admonishes the Isrealites of their duty, or sharply reproves them,
        He has surely a reference
to all men;

when He threatens destruction to Egypt and Ethiopia,
He surely pre-condemns every sinning nation, whatever.

If, reasoning from species to genus, every nation that sins against them is an Egypt and Ethiopia; so also, reasoning from genus to species, with reference to the origin of shows, every show is an assembly of the wicked.


John repeats the punishment of the Soothsayers with instruments (Levites) or Sorcerers with Instruments  (Revelation 18) saying they will be cast alive into the Lake of Fire.  The church in the wilderness was a synagogue: a school of the Word of God.  It is exampled by the Ekklesia: in Athens the Ekklesia met roughly each week: it was for reading resources from a higher authority, discussing or debating the material and reaching a conclusion.  All of the personal speeches, songs, dances and selling of things was quarantined to the Agora or marketplace.  The word PSALLO actually defines the polluted red rope the slaves used to force those who dallied around the singing boys and girls to go to the Pnx and the ekklesia. When they arrived they would be marked, fined and prohibited from speaking in the assembly.  Church is carefully derived from Kirk or Circe who is the Babylon mother of harlots in revelation 17.  Circe points to assemblies which were "circuses" and not assemblies where Christ was the only speaker when the elders (only) teach that which has been taught. Church in its modern "progressive" stage as a theater for holy entertainment IS the harlot church and she RIDES or depends totally on the performing artists are beasts. True to form, when the sterile leadership invites the beast to come and help them find the money, the goal of the beasts is to silence the elders, preachers and Christ.

Kirke from which we get the word CHURCH was:

Initially a Hunter Goddess and Lady of the Beasts of Kolchis named Aeaea 'ululation,'[halal] she became the funerary Goddess of the island known by her name. Kalypso 'concealer,' Argeia 'bright,' and often Medea 'wise one' who was sometimes called her neice instead. Klymene's daughters were the keepers of golden horned cattle in the lands of the Dead, the Heliades or Merope 'eloquent' or 'bee eater,' Helia 'sun,' Phoebe 'bright,' Aetheria 'heavenly one,' Dioxippe 'divine mare,' Lampetia 'beaming one,' Koronis 'crow or raven,' Aegile 'bright,' Lamethusa 'light being,' Phatusa 'bright being,' and Elektryone 'beaming on

        And how is Circe pictured in the classical accounts? She is shown holding a golden cup in her hand mixed with wine and drugs through which she controlled the kings of the world (among whom was supposed to be Ulysses). Now for a fact! This Goddess is also found in the symbolic teaching of the Bible. She is nothing less than the Great Whore who sits on many waters and seven hills who masterminds Mystery Babylon. Listen to what God says: "I will show thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication…having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication. And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Revelation 17:2-5, note that the capitalization is in the original KJV).

This is a clear biblical description of the Goddess of the classical world known as Circe (or "Church"), the great sorceress. As a matter of fact, when Circe (the original "Church") died she was buried on one of the islands of the Pharmacusii group in the Aegean Sea in eyesight of the Isle of Patmos where the apostle John saw most of the Book of Revelation. God has allowed the name "Church" (the Great Whore) to adorn all Christian churches in existence, if the churches use the name "church" to describe themselves. Ernest L. Martin, Ph.D., 1998

The Beast power is not a quadraped:

 Thērion , to (in form Dim. of thēr),
A. wild animal, esp. of such as are hunted, mala gar mega thērion ēen, of a stag, Od.10.171, 180 (never in Il.); in Trag. only in Satyric drama,

III. as a term of reproach, beast, creature, , cf. Eq.273; kolaki, deinō thēriōPl.Phdr.240b;
Kolax , a^kos, ho,
A. flatterer, fawner, Ar.Pax756, Lys.28.4, Pl.Phdr. 240b, etc.; “tukhēs kolakesAntipho Soph.65; “pantes hoi k. thētikoi kai hoi tapeinoi k.Arist.EN1125a1, cf. 1108a29, Thphr.Char.2.1; parasite, Eup.159.1, Antisth. ap. D.L.6.4.
2. in later Gr., = Att. goēs, Moer. p.113 P.
II. lisping pronunciation of korax, Ar.V.45.
Judges 12:5 And the Gileadites took the passages of Jordan before the Ephraimites: and it was so, that when those Ephraimites which were escaped said, Let me go over; that the men of Gilead said unto him, Art thou an Ephraimite? If he said, Nay;
Judges 12:6 Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand.
Goēs , ētos, ho, A. sorcerer, wizard epōdos Ludias apo khthonosE.Ba.234
2. juggler, cheat, “deinos g. kai pharmakeus kai sophistēsPl.Smp.203d; “deinon kai g. kai sophistēn . . onomazōnD.18.276; “apistos g. ponērosId.19.109; “magos kai g

Sophis-tēs , ou, ho, A. master of one's craft, adept, expert, of diviners, with modal words added, “hoi s. tōn hierōn melōn” [MELODY IN THE SHRINE]
3. later of the rhētores, Professors of Rhetoric, and prose writers of the Empire, such as Philostratus and Libanius, Suid.; “Apollōnidē sophistē [Abaddon, Apollyon]

identifies the speakers, singers and instrument players in Revelation 18: John called them sorcerers and says they will be (are) cast alive into the lake of fire.
Plat. Phaedrus 240b has mingled with most of them some temporary pleasure;
         [hēdonē 3. Pl., desires after pleasure, pleasant lusts, X.Mem.1.2.23, Ep.Tit.3.3, ]
kha^rizō , fut.[GRACE] 3. in erotic sense, grant favours to a man, Ar.Ec.629 (anap.), Pl.Smp.182a, Phdr.231c, 256a, X.Mem.3.11.12, etc.: hence of Comedy,
The Beast defined by the clause:

mousikê aei ti kainon thêrion tiktei

A.  Mousikos, musical, agônes m. kai gumnikoi  choroi te kai agônes ta mousika music,  

II. of persons, skilled in music, musical, X.l.c., etc.; poiêtikoi kai m. andres Pl.Lg.802b ; kuknos [minstrel]  kai alla zôia; peri aulous - professional musicians, mousikos kai melôn poêtês, use with singing, skilled in speaking before a mob. Melody, 

B. aei always
C. kainos , esp. of new dramas, the representation of the new tragedies,  (Aphrodisias dedicated to Aphrodite (ZOE); comedy, sexual love, pleasure, a woman's form of oath, Aster or Venus [Lucifer] or ZOE.
D. Tikto mostly of the mother 
E. of Rhea [Zoe, Eve] one of the zoogonic or vivific principles

That may mean noting but it is part of the universal association between instruments as weapons of sorcery using external means to instill false teachings.  You have to TRUMP that in order to IMPOSOE music as part of the School of Christ knowing that you will sow discord and steal the church house of widoes.

That makes imposing instruments into a Church of Christ the invasion of the soul snatchers. That is pretty important since music defacto means "to silence the voice of the victim.


Royce Ogle:  Early in 2010 I was asked to write an article for New Wineskins online magazine. The article I wrote was entitled: Patternism in Churches of Christ – A Template for Sin. I also published the same article on this blog.

THE pattern in the Church of Christ (the Rock) was:
INCLUSIVE to Rest, Read and Rehearse the Word of God (only)
EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrumental rejoicing including the SOPHISTS as speakers, singers and instrument players.
We have shown above that all of the PERFORMERS getting paid to silence Christ are called sorcerers and prostitutes.

Royce Ogle wants to ADD three or four more PIECES to the PATTERN.

Of course the "patternism" word is a RACA word intending to ridicule those who refuse to added INSTRUMENTS when churches under that name had NEVER seen instruments as suitable backup music when Christ comes to be out only Master Teacher when the elders teach that which has been taught.

After Royce refused to be questioned by "old timer" I wrote this reviewed the article:

Patternism in Churches of Christ: A Template for Sin: Royce Ogle

Royce and all of the pro instrumental which often intends to sow discord to purge the flock does not understand that there was a prophesied (Gen 4) fork in the Road between the Civil-Military-Clergy complex which God abandoned to worship the starry host and the godly tribes quarantined to the Qahal, synagogue or Church of Christ in the Wilderness.  If one can read Acts 7 they would understand that their PATTERN for musical worship was repudiated and got Stephen murdered.

Because neither king, kingdom, temple, animal slaughter or instrumental exorcism noises were commanded, the Spirit OF Christ in the prophets warns about the Lying Pen of the Scribes.

Stand in the gate of the Lords house [courts], and proclaim there this word,
        and say, Hear the word of the Lord, all ye of Judah,
        that enter in at these gates to worship the Lord. Jeremiah 7:2

Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel,
        Amend your ways and your doings,
        and I will cause you to dwell in this place. Jeremiah 7:3 

Trust ye not in lying words, saying,
        The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord,
        The temple of the Lord, are these. Jeremiah 7:4

Jer. 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is WITH US?
        THE PEN OF THE SCRIBES IS in vain.

For I spake NOT unto your fathers, nor commanded them
        in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt,
        concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:22

Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on John,  

That the Pharisees puffed up unto strange boasting,
        were wont to pretend that the Divine Word was with them and in them,
        and therefore foolishly affirmed that they had advanced to marvellous wisdom, 
        the Spirit Itself will testify, 
        since Christ says by the Prophet Jeremiah unto them, 
                How do ye say, WE are wise, and the word of the Lord is with us?
                For nought to the scribes became their lying pen;
                the wise
men were ashamed, were dismayed and taken;
                what wisdom
is in them? because they rejected the word of the Lord.

For how are they not taken rejecting the Living and Hypostatic Word of God,
         receiving not the faith to Him-ward, 
         but dishonouring the Impress of God the Father,
         and refusing to behold His most true Form (so to say)
         through His God-befitting Authority and Power?

The Church of Christ was and is built upon the foundation (teachings) of the Prophets and Apostles. The universal CENI connected to the assembly for teaching only.
John 6:44 No man can come to me,
        except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
        and I will raise him up at the last day.
        And they shall be all taught of God.
        Every man therefore that hath heard,
        and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

2Pet. 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words
        which were spoken before by the HOLY PROPHETS
        and of the commandment of us the APOSTLES of the Lord and Saviour:
That is interpreted to mean that Jesus identified the PROPHETS by the Spirit of Christ as the teaching resource.  A disciple does not ask whether they can add their OWN scripture in sermon and song.

IT WAS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHO SPOKE THROUGH THE PROPHETS AND NOT LYING SCRIBES whom He called hypocrites by naming speakers, singers and instrument players in Ezekiel 33.

Interpreted: a rhetorician, singer and instrument player or actor is THE definition of a hypocrite.
True: Jesus didn't say "thou shalt not be a hypocrite" but why is it impossible to understand that Jesus identified all of the religious performers as hypocrites?

Ezek. 33:30 Also, thou son of man,
        the children of thy people still are talking against thee
        by the walls and in the doors of the houses,
        and speak one to another, every one to his brother, saying,
                Come, I pray you, and hear
                what is the word that cometh forth from the LORD.

Ezek. 33:31 And they come unto thee AS the people cometh,
        and they sit before thee AS my people,
        and they hear thy words, but they will not do them:
                for with their mouth they shew much love,
                but their heart goeth after their covetousness. 

I will be happy to interpret that.

Ezek. 33:32NET Realize that to them
        you are like a sensual song, [Nothing more than]
        a beautiful voice and skilled musician.
        They hear your words, but they do not obey them.
Ezek. 33:33 When all this comes true–and it certainly will–
        then they will know that a prophet was among them."

Why is Jesus defining Scribes and Pharisees as hypocrites so hard to understand?
Christ in Ezekiel 33 defined speakers, singers and musicians as hypocrites.
The Scribes made up their own songs and sermons: Jesus refused to be civil to them.

It is a fact that nothing as part of the worship of the starry host contributed any saving power:

1Pet. 1:10 Of which salvation the PROPHETS have inquired and searched diligently,
            who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
 1Pet. 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time
            the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
            when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ,
            and the glory that should follow.    

OF is a preposition: the Spirit OF CHRIST is that Spirit which belongs to Christ: it is never another god person who speaks "beyond sacred pages."  Christ defined the church and salvation in the PROPHETS.  Why is it so hard to understand that to mean that He did NOT speak through the priests, kings or musicians?

God did NOT speak through the lying pen of the Scribes who recorded the Monarchy which God had NOT commanded. He does not speak through rhetoricians, singers and musicians which are legalistic aids for the incompetent. If the Scribes lied about animal slaughter, and Christ in the prophets said God had NOT commanded any such thing, then modern preachers who IMPOSE that patternism cannot be called either honest nor literate.
Heb. 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners
        spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Can you understand that God in Christ spoke by the PROPHETS?  The prophets were mortal enemies of the Civil-Military-Clergy complex who always murdered the prophets. Can you doubt any preacher who uses the ANTI-prophets as the legalistic patternism for replacing the Word of Christ (spirit) with their OWN songs and sermons.  I know, Peter did not say that god DID NOT speak through the musicians! But, why would a lover of truth have such a twisted pattern?

Why are churches under attack at all of the unity forums and gatherings at once-Christian universities NOT able to tell the world that Rick is reading off the NACC white paper which has no truth in it?
Heb. 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us BY HIS SON
        whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
        by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb. 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory,
        and the express image of his person,
        and upholding all things by the WORD of his power,
                when he had by himself purged our sins,
                sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

The Word of HIS power is repudiated by all song and sermon writers. Is it hart to understand that Jesus did not command any form of "music" in the assembly (synagogue) when He met with the disciples two first days of the week in a row.  Neither did any Bible writer command singing with or without instruments.

The command is to SPEAK the Biblical text with one mind and one mouth.
The inherent result is that both singing (making noises) and melody are IN THE HEART as a place.

Philippians 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision,
        which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus,
        and have no confidence in the flesh.
MANY TIMES Paul warned against the instrumental patternism
1Corinthians 10:6 Now these things were our EXAMPLE,
         to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Corinthians 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written,
        The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

4. play on a musical instrument, h.Ap.206: c. acc., “Pan ho kalamophthogga paizōnAr.Ra.230; dance and sing, Pi. O.1.16.
5. play amorously, “pros allēlous

"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it; but the employment of
music in religious services, though idolatrous, is more distinctly marked in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).

And, yet almost ALL preachers will claim that GOD COMMANDED instrumental worship in the Old Testament.  That is clearly lying about Christ in all of the prophets and the story in Acts 7 which got Stephen murdered. 

Royce Ogle: You can read it here. Mr. Sublett took issue what I had written and attempted to leave 9 different comments. His comments were very difficult to understand for the most part and so I chose to approve only one of them.

Mr. Sublett knew fully well that Royce had no intention of letting his post appear on his forum. That seemed so timid.  Mr. Sublett was not in a senile fit but each post was the only way to serve Royce notice that I had posted something he should read if he wanted to know what I was writing. Wasn't that pretty slick for an ole timer?

I get that same response when I just quote the Bible. Things may not make sense because one has been reared in the patternism of "religious services" even when Jesus said that the Kingdom of God does not come with Religious observations. That will not make sense because no one cares enough to look up OBSERVATION and find that Jesus was talking about the laded burden of the Scribes and Pharisees.  Jesus called them hypocrites by quoting Isaiah 6 and Ezekiel 33. That won't make sense unless you care enough to know that a hypocrite is a preacher, singers or instrument players in those meetings.

Royce Ogle: A few days ago Mr. Sublett left a comment on another post I had written here and again I chose not to approve it. And, in fairness to him I sent an email saying that his comment did not address the subject at hand and invited him to comment again if his comment addressed the subject at hand.

Royce Ogle says he COULD NOT UNDERSTAND my post but it did not address HIS agenda. In dialog Royce gets to make a statement and others get to answer it.

Royce Ogle: Well, our back and forth emails continued for a while. Finally I asked for, and was given permission to post here on GraceDigest the whole, unedited transcript. The reason I chose to do this is because Mr. Sublett feels he is not treated fairly by most progressive bloggers who routinely ignore his comments. So I thought I would give his ideas perhaps a different audience than is usual.

I don't remember that "treated unfairly" thingy: my assertion is that false teachers have learned how NOT to ever never respond to anyone who opposes their teaching. I wasn't whining I was just identifying.  I just feel that it is not manly to post something which seems so unbiblical and then refuse to let people contradict it.  Maybe Royce is too much in the 'just love' false thingy.

Well, Darn, I knew that Royce wouldn't be able to comprehend: when you tamper with the Word God sends strong delusions: the proof is Lying Wonders which includes all the performing arts and crafts MAKING CERTAIN that you will never understand.  Here is something simple where Preach or Speak is defined as the OPPOSITE of poetry or music.

2Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season,
        out of season; reprove, rebuke,
        exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

, Att. kēruk-ttō , Dor. ka_russō : to be a herald, officiate as herald, “kērussōn gēraskeIl.17.325.

Greek Reprove:
, Od.21.424, disgrace, put to shame, muthon e. treat a speech with contempt, Il.9.522; e. tina put one to shame, Od. 21.424.—
II. cross-examine, question, Hdt.2.115, Pl.Ap.18d, c. acc. et inf., accuse one of doing, E.Alc.1058:—Pass., to be convicted, Hdt.1.24,117; “
2. test, bring to the proof, “andrōn aretan pagkratēs elegkhei alatheia
4. refute, confute, tina or ti, Pl.Grg.470c, al., D.28.2, Luc.Nigr.4:—Pass., Pl.Tht.162a; khrusos klēidas elegkhei proves that they avail not,
        b. put right, correct, prove by a reductio ad impossibile,
5. get the better of, stratian ōkutati e. Pi.P.11.49, cf. D.P.750, Him.Or.1.16.
6. expose, “tina lērountaPl.Tht.171d, cf. X.Mem.1.7.2, M.Ant.1.17; betray a weakness, Democr.222.
7. decide a dispute, “ana meson tōn duoLXX Ge. 31.37.
Latin: Argŭo  . A.. In gen., to make clear, to show, prove, make known, declare, assert
a. With aliquem, to attempt to show something, in one's case, against him, to accuse, reprove, censure, charge with:
1. To accuse, censure, blame: “ea culpa, quam arguo,Liv. 1, 28: “peccata coram omnibus argue,Vulg. 1 Tim. 5, 20: “tribuni plebis dum arguunt in

2Timothy 4:3 For [I mean that]  the time will come
        when they will not endure sound doctrine;
  but after their own lusts
Hugiano  2. to be sound of mind, teachings
3.  of soundness in political or religious matters, esp. in part., “to hugiainon tēs HelladosId.7.15; hoi hugiainontes,

. turbulent agitators, Plb.28.17.12;
Opposite Kamno work
hopē anthrōpos ekameBerl.Sitzb. 1927.158 (Cyrene).--The pf. is always intr. (Cf. Skt. śamnīte 'work hard', 'serve zealously', śamitár- 'sacrificing priest', Gr. eiro-komos, komeō, komizō.)
         [looking for sexual love ; epithumia [boy love]by passion,
         Opposite. pronoia [forthought, learning]
Teaching to scratch:
, later form of knaō, A. scratch, “hōs legetai, knēthein oiden onos ton onon
Onos , 1. o. luras (sc. akouōn), of one who can make nothing of music, o. luras ēkoue kai salpiggos hus; 2. peri onou skias for an ass'sshadow, i.e. for a trifle,
an ass in the rain, of being unmoved by what is said or done,
2. the upper millstone which turned round, “o. aletēsX.An.1.5.5 ;
Xen. Const. Lac. 2.13 But if it was clear that the attraction lay in the boy's outward beauty, he banned the connexion as an abomination; and thus he caused lovers to abstain from boys no less than parents abstain from sexual intercourse with their children and brothers and sisters with each other.
shall they heap to THEMSELVES teachers, having itching ears.


Epithu_m-ētēs , oi, ho,
A. one who longs for or desires, neōterōnergōnHdt.7.6; [dogmatōn] And.4.6; “ergōnLys.12.90; timēs, sophias, Pl.R.475b, etc.; phusei polemou e. Arist.Pol.1253a6; “kakōn1 Ep.Cor.10.6; “allotriōnBGU531 ii 22 (ii A.D.).
2. . abs., lover, follower, X.Mem.1.2.60.
b. . one who lusts, LXX Nu.11.34.
in divination, S.OT 502 (ly

SOPHIA A.cleverness or skill in handicraft and art, Hephaestus , in music and singing, in poetry also, cunning, shrewdness, craft, Hdt.1.68,  in music and singing, tekhnē kai s. h.Merc.483, cf. 511; in poetry, Sol.13.52, Pi.O.1.117, Ar.Ra.882, X.An.1.2.8,

Sophistês , ou, ho, master of one's craft, adept, expert, of diviners, Hdt.2.49; of poets, meletan sophistais prosbalon Pi.I.5(4).28 , cf. Cratin.2; of musicians, sophistês . . parapaiôn chelun A.Fr.314 , cf. Eup.447, Pl.Com. 140; sophistêi Thrêiki (sc. Thamyris) E.Rh.924, cf. Ath.14.632c: with mod

2. sophist (in bad sense), quibbler, cheat, goeta one who howls out enchantments, a sorcerer, enchanter. Goes

Goês , êtos, ho,
2. juggler, cheat, deinos g. kai pharmakeus kai sophistês Pl.Smp.203d ; deinon kai g. kai sophistên . . onomazôn D.18.276 ; apistos g. ponêros Id.19.109 ; magos kai g. Aeschin.3.137 
Pharmak-eus , eôs, ho, A.poisoner, sorcerer, S.Tr.1140, Pl.Smp.203d, etc.; gnêsioi sophistai kai

Pharmakos  A.poisoner, sorcerer, magician,LXXEx.7.11Ma.3.5 (fem.), Apoc.21.8, 22.15. (masc.),

Rev. 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev. 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


Epôid-os , on, epaidô b. Subst., enchanter, e. kai goês E.Hipp. 1038 (but goês e. Ba.234 ): c. gen., a charm for or against, 2. Pass., sung to music, phônai Plu.2.622d ; fit for singing, poiêtikên e. parechein M.6.16 . 1. epôidos , , Sch.metr. Pi.O.4 ( ho , Gal.UP17.3, dub. in D.H.Comp.19), epode, part of a lyric ode sung after the strophe and antistrophe, ib.26, Gal. l.c., Sch.metr. Pi.l.c., etc. 2. epôidos , ho , versepassage returning at intervals, in Alcaics and Sapphics, D.H.Comp.19 ; chorus, burden, refrain, Ph. 1.312 : metaph., ho koinos hapasês adoleschias e. the 'old story',

Generally the PROGRESSIVES will not let anyone respond if they contradict.

Royce Ogle: Mr. Kenneth Sublett, if my memory serves me well, is well into his 80′s and there is no denying that he is a busy fellow.

But, he can still read the text in context and is young enough to follow the story line without doing hippy hoppy over partial verses. You might be interested that in 1997 when my last church followed the PROGRESSIVE PATTERNISM intending to collect money, build the property and then DIVERT the monies.   That is the patternism followed by all who IMPOSE instruments AFTER getting all of the property set up so that it cannot be stolen by the owners.

I have always understood Ephesians 5:19 but I got seriously involved when Paul commanded:

Ephesians 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Ephesians 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise,
        but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Getting ready demands Thelema (g2307) thel'-ay-mah; from the prol. form of 2309; a determination (prop. the thing), i.e. (act.) choice (spec. purpose, decree; abstr. volition) or (pass.) inclination: - desire, pleasure, will.

Paul says that you are UNWISE if you do not understand the commands of the Lord BEFORE you begin SPEAKING which is not making music.  If people cannot read Paul and think that one gets ready by spending the week REHEARSING the little praise ditties before performing FOR the body, the might think that their will is the will of the Lord.

That seemed to eleminate the will of outline sermons and clappy singing boy performers trying to make love to God.
Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess;
        but be filled with the Spirit;

Jesus said pretty clearly:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Why do people not have the obligation to warn people that REHEARSING the worship ministers erotic praise song is NOT the will of God?

What is it about "the Word of God" as the Will of the Lord that is so difficult to understand? And yet, we have to grant that it happens.

Contrary to all of the "progressives" Psallo has no musical content: Paul and the Spirit were not as ignorant as the progressives think:  Getting drunk with wine would point directly to the symposia of the "crookedrace."  Speaking of Amos 5
"In pagan traditions, musical instruments are invented by gods or demi-gods, such as titans. In the Bible, credit is assigned to antediluvian patriarchs, for example, the descendants of Cain in Genesis 4:21. There is no other biblical tradition about the invention of musical instruments." (Freedman, David Noel, Bible Review, Summer 1985, p. 51). (Proof Here).
Conrad L'Heureux demonstrated that the marzeah, or symposium (feast, gathering, banquet, assembly) of El that is found in the Rephaim Texts of Ugarit "must be a reflex in the divine world of the symposium celebrated by the members of the earthly marzeah of El

"Long before Israel's existence, we find in Akkadian tablets the word h
alhallatu for 'double clarinet,' and we have many ancient representations of this instruments... Extremely popular for SECULAR purposes, the clarinet was played at WEDDINGS, BANQUETS, and FUNERAL. At funerals it served as accompaniment to the customary WAILING women; this is the meaning of Matt. 9:23. The chief characteristics of the clarinet were: popularity, juxtaposition with hand drum and lyre, expression of extreme emotionalism, and symbolic meaning of FERTILITY and RESURRECTION." (Int. Std. Bible Dict., p. 472)
We are told to save ourselves from that crooked race. If you don't know how to identify the crooked race or race of vipers how can you judge other peoples statements: simple assertions are an invitation to dialog and are not intended to be the whole ball of wax to make fun of. 

Katauleô to play upon the flute, to resound with flute-playing, to overpower by flute-playing:--generally, to overpower, strike dumb [Don't get methuo with wine includes "don't get fluted down with wine or "drunk on ignorance".]

Katapsallô, play stringed instruments to, [sumposion] have music played to one, enjoy music, resound with music,

Scripture does not use a SINGLE WORD which means "to play an instrument."

The symposium was the musical festivalsof the PERVERTED. When they needed to discuss something they CAST OUT the flute girls and this automatically reduced the wine drinking.

Pind. I. 6 Just as we mix the second bowl of wine when the men's symposium is flourishing, here is the second song of the Muses for Lampon's children and their athletic victories: first in Nemea, Zeus, in your honor they received the choicest of garlands,
At about that time when I watched the performers I also became aware of universal history.
Plato Protagoras  [347c] But if he does not mind, let us talk no more of poems and verses, but consider the points on which I questioned you at first, Protagoras, and on which I should be glad to reach, with your help, a conclusion. For it seems to me that arguing about poetry is comparable to the wine-parties of common market-folk. These people, owing to their inability to carry on a familiar conversation over their wine by means of their own voices and discussions—

Modern theology is based on the New Winskin.

-347d such is their lack of education—put a premium on flute-girls
by hiring the extraneous voice of the flute at a high price,
carry on their intercourse by means of its utterance.
But where the party consists of thorough gentlemen who have had a proper education,
        you will see neither flute-girls nor dancing-girls nor harp-girls,
        but only the company contenting themselves with their own conversation,
        and none of these fooleries and frolics—
        each speaking and listening decently in his turn,

If harp boys played and sang they were known to be "drunk, perverted or just having fun."
Paul said SPEAK to YOURSELVES: how could anyone turn that into "Let the music team lead you into the presence of God."

Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

The Scholars literally see:

Ephesians 5:19 Singing to to the audience in itzy bitzy praise songs
Singing and making melody upon a harp

Ephesians 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Psallo is never used to speak of MUSICAL melody in the Greek text: When Paul is not using the ANTITHESIS to warn the Ephesians, the word is not "melos" (musical melody) but:
Melet-aō , “tauta meleta1 Ep.Ti.4.15; esp. practise speaking, con over a speech in one's mind,logaria dustēna meletēsasD.19.255; “apologianId.46.1; also, deliver, declaim (cf. 11.5 b), “logous
Speaking when not used to define the "getting drunk on wine" praise singing is the Word:
Logos 2. generally, account, reckoning, phunai ton hapanta nika l. excel
Opposite. ek tēs epagōgēs bringing in to one''s aid
Opposite. muthos, as history to legend, Ti.26e; “poiein muthous all' ou logous
Opposite. epilogos,
Opposite. prooimion,
Opposite. phōnē, Arist.Pol.1253a14;
, Opposite. poiēsis,
Opposite . emmetra, ib.1450b15
l. pezoi
, Opposite. poiētikē, D.H.Comp.6; Opposite. poiēmata, ib.15; “koina kai poiēmatōn kai logōn” 
Music not according to the law.
II.2. of verse, unaccompanied by music, “kai peza kai phormikta” [Abaddon, Apolllyon's harp] S.Fr.16 ; pezō goō: aneu aulou [without the flute]  luras, [without harp]
    Mark of: 3. Commonhetairai prostitute or aulētrisA. flute-girl,
, Ar.Ach.551, X.HG2.2.23, Pl.Prt.347d,
           moskhoi 2. metaph., boy, E.IA1623: as fem., girl, maid, Id.Hec.526 [as a burnt offering], Andr.711, etc.
III.2. without musical accompaniment (cf. 11.2), pausai [Rest] (cf. 11.2),  Pl.Sph.237a.
       Pausai    take one's rest, rest from of one singing or speaking, 17.359, Hdt.7.8.d :
                     songs do not loose the pain lupas ōdais p
. E.Med.197
                        Thamurin aoidēs,orkhēthmoio podaspaus. melōdous'
         Melōdous'  Stop the Melody
         Alla p. being used to limit
or oppose words, reverse process, whole sentences,
         moi phrason2. show forth, tell, declare, logon indicate to oneself, i.e. think or muse upon, consider, ponder,
3 Only the lyrics of dramatic poetry
Opposite. ta tou khorou, ib.1449a17. [below]
Aristot. Poet. 1449a The one came from the prelude to the dithyramb and the other from the prelude to the phallic songs which still survive as institutions in many cities.
        The iambic is indeed the most conversational of the metres, and the proof is that in talking to each other we most often use iambic lines but very rarely hexameters and only when we rise above the ordinary pitch of conversation.
A Satyr play was an interlude performed by a troupe of actors dressed as the goat-like followers of Dionysus. Hence tragōdia, "goat-song (Capella)

Sa^tu^r-ikos 2. of or resembling the Satyric drama, Pl.Smp. 222d; “poiēsisArist.Po.1449a22; “orkhēsis D.H.7.72; drama

Eur. Med. 197 You would be right to call men of old foolish, not at all wise: for while they invented songs for festivities, banquets, and dinners and added pleasant sounds to human life, [195] no one discovered how to put an end to mortals' bitter griefs with music and song sung to the lyre. It is because of these griefs that deaths and terrible disasters overthrow houses. It would have been a gain for mortals [200] to cure these ills by song. Where there are feasts of plenty, why do they raise the loud song to no purpose?

This may be the ravings of senility but one would think about claiming that God COMMANDED them to do what all of the Bible and Recorded History Denies.

Royce Ogle: He continues to regularly dress down those he believes to be false prophets (including yours truly..). His website is

I dress down those who intentionally collect money for the LORD and then tell everyone that YOU have changed YOUR agenda and WE gonna DIVERT your monies.  He has lost a couple of good INVESTMENTS with the Lord and I respond to POSTED ARTICLES, Books or Sermons who LIE to God and About God intending to "steal the church house of widows."  Now, Royce never met one of those he doesn't APPLAUD.

What Royce and the progressives intentionally DRESS DOWN as legalists or patternists those who do not ADD instrumental music to make unity with them possible.  Most of the bloggers feed on one another and love to make fun of churches of Christ when they simply have never read the Bible very much and feed on one another for their hate literature.

Royce may feel dressed down but I take published papers or sermons and compare them with the Biblical text.  What I am attempting to do is UNDRESS them or prove that the kings have no clothes.People who actively twist all Scripture intending to sow discord always use the old "love" weapon to put down anyone who tests their papers by Scripture and history.  I am just following a direct command and NEVER try to silence anyone who wants to refue me without attacking the old person.

Greek Reprove:
, Od.21.424, disgrace, put to shame, muthon e. treat a speech with contempt, Il.9.522; e. tina put one to shame, Od. 21.424.—
II. cross-examine, question, Hdt.2.115, Pl.Ap.18d, c. acc. et inf., accuse one of doing, E.Alc.1058:—Pass., to be convicted, Hdt.1.24,117; “
2. test, bring to the proof, “andrōn aretan pagkratēs elegkhei alatheia
4. refute, confute, tina or ti, Pl.Grg.470c, al., D.28.2, Luc.Nigr.4:—Pass., Pl.Tht.162a; khrusos klēidas elegkhei proves that they avail not,
        b. put right, correct, prove by a reductio ad impossibile,

5. get the better of, stratian ōkutati e. Pi.P.11.49, cf. D.P.750, Him.Or.1.16.
6. expose, “tina lērountaPl.Tht.171d, cf. X.Mem.1.7.2, M.Ant.1.17; betray a weakness, Democr.222.
7. decide a dispute, “ana meson tōn duoLXX Ge. 31.37.

Royce Ogle: Not only is Kenneth Sublett one of the most vocal voices against instrumental music in Churches of Christ, he is by far the most unusual.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  I have been retired these last 33 years and have literally searched everything from clay tablets to the modern scholars using their McGuffy's Lexicon. I assure you that you will NEVER find any remote hint of congregational singing in the Bible or early recorded history.  One then wonders "Just where did people get the idea for using instruments against God's people."  Christ in the prophets says that Lucifer the singing and harp playing prostitute brought them with him/her/it when she invaded the garden of Eden.

If Royce established a school of Real Estate and someone wanted to sing, clap and play while HE lectured, guess what would happen to them.  And yet, Royce says that men should so blaspheme and insult Jesus and no one should object.

The promise of Jesus that His elect will be despised and rejected of men. Royce promotes those who put the people in debt, then change the name and add instruments knowing that the owners will be driven out of their own synagogue.  Godly people will always be put down.
Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect,
        which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily.
        Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh,
        shall he find faith on the earth?

That may be because preachers are not readers of the Bible and recorded history. Royce and even "scholars" are "patterned" to believe that Jesus commanded A cappella congregational singing with the accompaniment of "organum" or complex harmony imitating the pipe organ.

Royce Ogle: If I understand what he actually believes, not only is he opposed to instruments in worship,

Isn't that enough for those who have worked like little beavers cutting down other people's trees to build themselves a new house and change school of Christ into "a theater for holy entertainment?"

I don't much care what happens in the religious institutions which do not grasp that throughout the Bible the church is defined as a "synagogue where" we "use one mind and one mouth to teach that which is written for our learning" Rom 15. Paul defines that as Scripture.  Paul also told the elders as the only pastor-teachers to teach that which has been taught.

The Campbells, tried to restory what men like John Calvin attempted as "restoring the Church of Christ."

The church, they say, is a School of Christ
Worship is reading and musing the Word of God.
Even when singing was imposed it was recomposed Biblical Psalms (what Paul commanded)

  1. If Paul commanded that we speak TYPES of songs in the BOOK of Psalms,
  2. And Paul commmanded "that which is written for our learning" and the elders are to "teach that which has been taught"
  3. then if all of the world decides to compose their own songs and sermons they still do not have a command, example, remote inference or historical precedence for "congregational singing of Twila Paris or ditties composed by the sister singers.


That pretty much outlaws self-speak by which Jesus identified the clergy as sons of the Devil.

Royce Ogle: but is against singing and preaching as well,

False: preaching is "kerusso" and both the kerusso and the presbyter were HERALDS not so reckless as to change the message of the sender or CHARGE the recipient. Jesus commanded preachers to GO and make disciples. Elders are the only commanded Pastor-Teachers in an established congregation.  The synagogue always existed and never changed even after Jesus:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
        All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and [1] teach all nations,
        [2] baptizing them in the name [Jesus] of the Father, and of the Son,
        and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 [3] Teaching them
        to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
        and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

"Although the sermon was not an essential part of the synagogue service, the translation and explanation of the Scripture lesson was a step in the direction of a preaching service. There is evidence that an exposition of the lesson formed a part of the Sabbath afternoon service. In earliest times the sermon seems to have been connected with the reading from the Prophets. Anyone able to instruct might be asked to preach (Acts 13:15). The preacher spoke from a sitting position on an elevated place (Luke 4:20). (Pfeiffer, p. 63).

"The word that is employed for this "anaginosko, anagnosis) is the technical term for the cultic reading aloud of the Old Testament in the synagogue. By applying this terminology to the reading of his own epistles he not only ascribes the same authority to the apostolic word as to the Old Testament writings...he also combines a quotation from the Old Testament with a word of Jesus and introduces the whole with the familiar formula: 'for the Scripture says.'" (Ridderbos, Hermon, Paul, an Outline of His Theo., Eerdmans, p. 483)

"With the victory of Christianity and the development of the service came a soaring of the sermon. Preaching became more frequent, being employed even during the week and during fast seasons in some places daily. As the Church during that period assimilated more and more Greco-Roman culture, the sermon developed para passu. The most noted Christian preachers had not seldom been educated in the rhetorical schools of the heathen, and employed in their sermons the rule of rhetoric and the artistic effects taught there, and polish became almost an end, often giving more brilliancy than warmth. The hearers came to look for esthetic satisfaction rather than for edification, leaving after the sermon and before the Eucharist." (The New Schaff-Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, Preaching, p. 150, Period 300-450 A. D.).

Jesus exampled SPEAKING a hymn after Passover and did not command singing.  It is an honor to be quite lonely in understand that Jesus excluded anything not conducive to being A School of Christ. Ken may also be someone alone in grasping that Disciples go to Bible Class: Disciples do not go to religious observations which Jesus denied contributed to the coming of the kingdom.
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time
        hath in every city them that preach him,
        being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The singing word in Ephesians 5 is.

Aeidō , Ion. and poet. form used by Hom., Pi., and sometimes in Trag. and Com. (even in trim., A.Ag.16, E.Fr.188; intetram., Cratin. 305), also in Ion. Prose; contr. adō
hence of all kinds of vocal sounds, crow as cocks, Pl.Smp..223c; hoot as owls, Arat.1000; croak as frogs, Arist. Mir.835b3, Thphr.Sign.3.5, etc.; hoi tettiges [LOCUSTS] khamothen asontai Stes. ap.Arist.Rh.1412a23:—of other sounds, twang, of the bow-string, Od.21.411; whistle, of the wind through a tree, Mosch.Fr.1.8; ring, of a stone when struck, Theoc.7.26:—prov., prin nenikēkenai adein 'to crow too soon', Pl.Tht.164c.—Constr.:—a. tini sing to one, Od.22.346; also, vie with one in singing, Theoc.8.6; a. pros aulon [flute] ē luran sing to  [lyre]. . , Arist.Pr..918a23; “hup' auloisPlu.2.41c:—aeisas . . khairein Dēmoklea,  Poetic. for eipōn, SPEAK
II. trans.,
1. c. acc. rei, sing of, chant, “mēnin aeideIl.1.1; “paiēona1.473; klea andrōn, noston, 9.189, Od.1.326; “ton Boiōtion nomonS.Fr.966: c. gen. (sc. melos), sing an air of . ., “PhrunikhouAr.V.269, cf. 1225: abs., a. amphi tinos to sing in one's praise, Od.8.266; “amphi tinaTerp.2, cf. E.Tr.513; “eis tinaAr.Lys. 1243: later, simply = kalein, Ael.NA3.28:—Pass., of songs, to be sung, Hdt.4.35; “ta lekhthenta kai asentaPl.Ly.205e; asma kalōs asthen, OPPOSITE. logos kalōs rhētheis
THAT'S why singing and melody (shooting bows or love arrows) is said to be IN the heart. But, then Royce doesn't know of a Church which SPEAKS (opposite of poetry) "that which is written for our learning (Romans 15) AND he doesn't know anyone who SINGS Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual songs which are ALL in the revealed text. He knows that musical sounds confiscate all of the brain so that it is IMPOSSIBLE to Teach and Comfort with that which is DISCOMFORTING to half of the population which Royce wants to DRIVE AWAY from his Worship Services when Jesus said that the Kingdom DOES NOT COME with observation: meaning religious services.

But Paul said do this kind of singing IN THE HEART and directed to God and not the audience. That would certainly guard any one able to read the text against hiring 'teams' to make all of those goofy sounds in their distinctive falsetto tone.

Since I do "disciple" and not "dogma" I am not "against" whatever people want to do when they  have decided to replace the Word of Christ with their own songs and sermons.  What I have said dogmatically is "that Royce etal cannot find a jot or tittlle; a command, example or remote inference of any one from Genesis to Revelation who gathered for congregational singing with or without instrumental accompaniment. Rather, that trying to brand me senile I just  offer an invitation for those who plan to sow discord to find such an instance.  Nor will they find any such example before Constantine let the pagans become preachers as we now allow rhetoricians, singers, actor and instrument players to be preacher.

Romans 15; Ephesians 4 and Collossians 3 are commands to TEACH that which is written by SPEAKING. The command is NEITHER to do external singing or playing an instrument. That is to guard the legalists not to try to do a legalistic end-run.

Hymnody developed systematically, however, only after the emperor Constantine legalized Christianity (AD 313); and it flourished earliest in Syria, where the practice was possibly taken over from the singing by Gnostics and Manichaeans of hymns imitating the psalms. The Byzantine Church adopted the practice; in its liturgy, hymns maintain a much more prominent place than in the Latin liturgy; and Byzantine hymnody developed complex types such as the kanon and kontakion (qq.v.; see also Byzantine chant). Saint Ephraem--a 4th-century Mesopotamian deacon, poet, and hymnist--has been called the "father of Christian hymnody." Britannica Online

Remembering that Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs are all in the Book of Psalms, and the command was to SPEAK them one to another, and Logos is the opposite of poetry, music or rhetoric, composing your own "scripture" was a deliberate apostasy used in making spiritual warfare.

A. First Human Replacement for the Bible. In the West, St. Hilary of Poitiers composed a book of hymn texts in about 360.

B. First Congregational singing. Not much later St. Ambrose of Milan instituted the congregational singing of psalms and hymns, partly as a counter to the hymns of the Arians, who were in doctrinal conflict with orthodox Christianity. In poetic form (iambic octosyllables in four-line stanzas), these early hymns--apparently sung to simple, possibly folk melodies--derive from Christian Latin poetry of the period.

C. First Musical Worship Teams. By the late Middle Ages trained choirs had supplanted the congregation in the singing of hymns. Although new, often more ornate melodies were composed and many earlier melodies were elaborated, one syllable of text per note was usual. Some polyphonic hymn settings were used, usually in alternation with plainchants, and were particularly important in organ music.

"The McClintock and Strong Cyclopedia not only speaks, in general terms, of 'heresy largely pervading the church and making rapid headway' at that very time, but it specifies 'the appointment of singers as a distinct class of officers in the church' with 'the consequent introduction of profane music'; and why should not instrumental music have been introduced if the carnal wishes of the people called for it" (Kurfees, M. C., Instrumental Music in Worship, p. 123)

"They were taught the doctrines concerning God, creation, providence, sacred history, the fall, the incarnation, the resurrection, and future rewards and punishments. Their books were portions of the Bible...

When the ecclesiastical spirit overcame the apostolic and Gospel teaching,
the study of the Bible was  largely displaced by ritual ceremonies
and priestly confessionals.

A few faithful continued to teach the Bible, as the Waldenses and the Lollards." (Shaff-Herzog Religious Ency. , Sunday schools, p. 159).

D. First Congregational singing of the commanded text: Congregational singing in the liturgy was re-established only during the Reformation, by the Lutheran Church in Germany.

The early chorale (q.v.), or German hymn melody,
was unharmonized and sung unaccompanied,
although harmonized versions, used by varying combinations of choir, organ, and congregation, appeared later

E.  Swiss, and later, French, English, and Scottish Calvinism promoted the singing of metrical translations of the psalter (see psalmody), austerely set for unaccompanied unison singing. English and Scottish Protestantism admitted only the singing of psalms. English metrical psalms were set to tunes adapted from the French and Genevan psalters. These were fairly complex melodies written on French metres. The English psalter used only a few metres, and the custom of singing each psalm to its “proper” tune was soon replaced by the use of a few common tunes. The common metre 8, 6, 8, 6 (the numbers give the number of syllables in each line), a form of English ballad metre, remains the archetypal English hymn metre.

Royce Ogle: but is against singing and preaching as well,  except for preaching about the Lord’s Supper.

That's not true: what I said was pretty simple and should not be a problem for anyone prior to soundbyteitis.  The Assembly met to READ and discuss the Word: the Lord's Supper was also a teaching activity. It is the only thing called "preaching" in an established congregation. Royce is happy if the simple singers sing, hum, whistle or even clap during the REMEMBERING.

1Corinthians 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,
        ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. 

That is a good "dead space" to be filled in with singing, humming, playing and even clappintg.

The ACT is to eat and drink: the PURPOSE is to teach and remind. Show Forth involves joining Jesus in the mental struggle.

kat-aggellō, A. announce, proclaim, declare, 2. recite, recount,agōna
Agon  gathering, assembly  6. mental struggle, anxiety, Th.7.71, Plb.4.56.4, Ep.Col.2.1: in pl., “tromoi kai a.Plu. Sol.7.

1Corinthians 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord,

        unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

Anaxios  anaxion sou too good for thee, undeserving in the eyes of all to suffer,
This conflict or contest is between of the WORLD and those OF FAITH or OF TRUTH.  Preaching is well recorded as one of the early apostacies by men who grasphed that just telling Bible storys with lots of jokes made them rich and famous.

Paul ALWAYS defines the role of the assembly which is to GUARD AGAINST what Royce etal want to endorse:
Colossians 2:1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
Colossians 2:2 That their hearts
might be comforted,
being knit together in love,
and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding,
       to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 15:7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.
Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: (Abraham)
Colossians 2:4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
      through philosophy and vain deceit,
      after the tradition of men,
      after the
rudiments of the world,
      and not after Christ
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you
        through enticing words
Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
Romans 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
If you cannot define words you cannot understand anything: most people cannot read or hear the Word because the enemies of the World perform music which means "to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter." It really works doesn't it?

Why would Paul warn about the AGONIZING we must do with Christ rather than hear "preaching" which has no intention of teaching that which has been taught. Here is the definition of wise or philosophy:

Sophis-teia  A. sophistry, D.S.12.53, Plu.2.78f, D.L.2.113, etc.; opp. sophia, Ph.1.10; s. mantikê, of Balaam, ib.609; title of work by Hermagoras of Amphipolis, Stoic.1.102: acc. to Poll.4.50, a barbarism, a sly trick, artifice, Eur., Thuc.; a stage-trick, claptrap3. a captious argument, a quibble, fallacy, sophism,

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Panourg-êma  A. knavish trick, villainy, S.El.1387 (lyr.), LXX Si.1.6 (v.l.); sophistry, Gal.5.251; cf. panourgeuma.

Mantikos , ê, on, A.prophetic, oracular, prophetic inspiration, mantikên Apollôn anêuren,

If you think that Ephesians 4 gives one to impose ceremonal legalism then you cannot understand the PURPOSE DRIVING the role of Jesus Christ.

That is the only command for PREACHING in a congregation.  That says that if you sing, whistle, clap or play instruments during this evangelistic act then you are showing Jesus that you are too good to suffer and agonize with him.
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath
        in every city them that preach him,
        being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
The Qahal, synagogue or Church of Christ in the wilderness was ordained by Christ (the Rock) for the godly Israelites who were not permitted to attend thee sacrifices of the Civil-Military-Clergy complex abandoned to worship the starry host.

The synagogues were held each REST DAY after they were settled as a School of the Word: vocal or instrumental rejoicing was outlawed along with an elevated form or rhetoric.  That "alarm" word was reserved to identify the Levites mounting an attach on Messiah.

Psalms 74:8 They said in their hearts,
        Let us destroy them together:
        they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.
Psalms 74:9 We see not our signs:
         there is no more any prophet:
        neither is there among us any that knoweth how long.
Psalms 74:10 O God, how long shall the adversary reproach?
         shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee,
        teaching in their synagogues,
        and preaching the gospel of the kingdom,
        and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Sounding trumpets IN the synagogue would meet the absolute definition of a hypocrite who wants to make people give their attention (the only worship concept) to him.

Matthew 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms,
        do not sound a trumpet before thee,
        as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets,
        that they may have glory of men.
        Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Why wouldn't that apply to speaking or singing IN the synagoge: the Holy Place as a type of the synagogue or Church would have someone present to execute you if you took your trumpet into any holy place.

hypocrĭta or -es , ae, m., = hupokritēs.
I.  A mime who accompanied the delivery of an actor by gestures, Suet. Ner. 24; Quint. 2, 17, 12; 11, 3, 7.—

A Hypocrite Expounds:

hupo-kri^tēs , ou, ho,
A. one who answers:
I. interpreter or expounder,tēs di' ainigmōn phēmēsPl.Ti. 72b; “oneirōnLuc.Somn.17, etc.

Peter outlaws further expounding: preaching is reading
2 Pet 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Outlawed: Epilusis (g1955)ep-il'-oo-sis; from 1956; explanation, i.e. application: - interpretation.
Outlawed: Epiluo (g1956) ep-ee-loo'-o; from 1909 and 3089; to solve further, i.e. (fig.) to explain, decide: - determine, expound.
Outlawed: epi-lusis , gives people permission to violate commands
A. release from, e. phobôn [fear] didou A.Th.134 (lyr.): abs., exemption from banishment, [purgatory?].
2. solution, sophismatôn  explanation, 2 Ep.Pet.1.20,  
4. spell, Magic:

Soph-isma   II. [select] clever device, ingenious contrivance, Pi.O.13.17 (pl.); “s. mēkhanasthaistage-trick, claptrap
3.  captious argument, quibble, sophism, Pl.R.496a, D.25.18, Epicur.Nat.28.9, etc.; “s. tēs rhētorikēsLongin.17.2; opp. a true logical argument (philosophēma, epikheirēma), Arist.Top.162a16:— Ar. calls a person sophism' holon, Av.431, cf.Ath.1.11b.

-măgĭcus , a, um, adj., = magikos,
I. of or belonging to magic, magic, magical (poet. and in post-Aug. prose): artes,Verg. A. 4, 493: “magicis auxiliis uti,Tib. 1, 8, 24: “arma movere,Ov. M. 5, 197: “superstitiones,Tac. A. 12, 59: vanitates,Plin. 30, 1, 1, § 1: “herbae,id. 24, 17, 99, § 156: “aquae,Prop. 4, 1, 102 (5, 1, 106): di magici, that were invoked by incantations (as Pluto, Hecate, Proserpine), Tib. 1, 2, 62; Luc. 6, 577: linguae,” i. e. hieroglyphics, id. 3, 222; “but lingua,skilled in incantations, Ov. M. 7, 330; Luc. 3, 224: “cantus,Juv. 6, 610: “magicae resonant ubi Memnone (son of Tithonus and Aurora, and king of the Ethiopians;) chordae,

A Hypocrite plays a part as a declamer:
II. in Att., one who plays a part on the stage, actor, Ar.V.1279, Pl.R.373b, Chrm. 162d, Smp.194b, X. Mem.2.2.9, etc.
2. of an orator, poikilos hu. kai perittos (of Dem.) Phld.Rh.1.197 S.; one who delivers, recites, declaimer,epōnTim.Lex. s.v. rhapsōdoi; rhapsodist, D.S.14.109, 15.7; this sense or sense 11.1 is possible in PCair.Zen.4.44 (iii B. C.).
3. metaph., pretender, dissembler, hypocrite, LXX Jb.34.30, 36.13, Ev.Matt.23.13, al.
A Hypocrite performs:  poikilos i^, ē, on,
2. of Art, p. humnos a song of changeful strain or full of diverse art, Pi.O.6.87; “poikilon kitharizōnId.N.4.14; “dedaidalmenoi pseudesi poikilois muthoiId.O.1.29; of style, “lexis poiētikōtera kai p.Isoc.15.47skhēmatismoi (Comp.); “ D.H.Is.3.
Pind. O. 6 My mother's mother was the nymph  [bride Rev 18] of Stymphalus, blossoming Metopa, [85] who bore horse-driving Thebe, whose delicious water I drink, while I weave my embroidered song for heroic spearmen. Now rouse your companions, Aeneas, first to shout the praises of Hera Parthenia, and then to know whether we have truly escaped the ancient reproach
A Hypocrite performs: epos, older wepos 1. song or lay accompanied by music,8.91,17.519.
IV. in pl., epic poetry, opp. melē (lyric poetry), iambeia, dithuramboi, etc., “rhaptōn epeōn aoidoiPi.N.2.2 ;

A Hypocrite performs: Rhapsōd-eō A. recite poems, esp. those of Homer
3. in contemptuous sense, repeat by heart or rote, declaim, “ouden . . all' ē rhapsōdēsousin hoi presbeis periiontes
II. c. acc. pers., sing of one, celebrate, “tous andreiousAr.Ec. 679.
professional reciters,
(Prob. from rhaptō, aoidē; Hes.Fr. 265 speaks of himself and Homer as en nearois humnois rhapsantes aoidēn, and Pi.N.2.2 calls Epic poets rhaptōn epeōn aoidoi: 
Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, [Orat] thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
ōro ,I. In gen. (so obsol.): “orare antiquos dixisse pro agere testimonio est, quod oratores dicti et causarum actores et qui rei publicae mandatas causas agebant,
2. Of oratorical speaking, eloquence (freq. in Quint.): ars orandi, the oratorical art, art of oratory, Quint. prooem. § 4; id. 2, 15, 20; 9, 4, 3: “orandi scientia,id. 1, 10, 2: “orandi studium,id. 9, 4, 110; 8, 6, 20.—

Angulus corner stone
A Hypocrite performs public prayer as liturgy:

Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
"The vb. Battologeo in Mt 6:7 (say not the same thing over and over again) refers to the superstition that the repeated utterance of a word will secure one's wish." (Int. Std. Bible Ency., Magic, p. 1964).

Heredotus 2.LVII. I expect that these women were called “doves” by the people of Dodona because they spoke a strange language, and the people thought it like the cries of birds; [2] then the woman spoke what they could understand, and that is why they say that the dove uttered human speech; as long as she spoke in a foreign tongue, they thought her voice was like the voice of a bird. For how could a dove utter the speech of men? The tale that the dove was black signifies that the woman was Egyptian

[3] The fashions of divination at Thebes of Egypt and at Dodona are like one another; moreover, the practice of divining from the sacrificed victim has also come from Egypt.

The word lelein is fundamentally an onomatopoetic one, meaning, as Thayer's Lexicon puts it, to go 'la-la'.  The Greeks shouted 'alala' both in worship and in war, and personified Alala as a deity (Pindar, Fr. 208 [78]; Plutarch 2.3496).  It was this same repetitive and meaningless syllabification in pagan prayers which Jesus described: 'for they think they shall be heard for their much speaking' (Matthew 6:7)

In Ephesians 5 in the Greek Paul gave the ANTITHESIS by defining speaking psalms, hymns and spiritual songs (the bible.}

The word is used of gossip, prattling, babbling, animal sounds, and musical instruments.  During the classical period, it usually was employed in a contemptuous sense.  Debrunner, writing in the Kittle-Friedrich Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, states 'Lalein can also be used quite objectively of speech when there is reference to sound rather than than meaning.  'To what kind of utterance can St. Paul refer?  There were many types of vocalization in ecstatic rites.

Iamblichus wrote: New patterns of Christian worship appear to have been more difficult for women to adopt than men, as they had not known the dignified rite of Apollo or Zeus.  For the most part, their religious expression had been accompanied by extravagances of every sort.   

We affirm, accordingly, not only that the shoutings and choric songs are sacred to the gods, each and all of them, as being peculiarly their own, but likewise that there is a kindred relationship between them in their proper order . . . and the peculiar usages of Sabazian worship make ready for the Bacchic enthusiasm, the purifying of souls, and deliverances from old incriminations, their respective inspirations are, accordingly, different in every important particular.

Thou seemest to think that those who are enrapt by the Mother of the gods are males, for thou callest them, accordingly, 'Metrizontes' yet that is not true, for the 'Metrizontesae' are chiefly women (op cit., pp. 121-123

Such women must learn that they were purified not through shouting but through the blood of Christ and through the washing of the water of the Word.

They have been heard to utter (different voices of equal strength, or with great diversity and inequality) in tones that alternated with silence; and again in other cases harmonious crescendo or dimenuendo of tone, and in still other cases other kinds of utterance. (Iamblichus, On the Mysteries, III, 4-6)

Royce Ogle: One of the problems I have is following his writing. I once commented to him that it’s like trying to break a secret code to try to understand him. I don’t know if he appreciated the humor or not.

My pattern is to quote the proof text and add the before and after text, look up the ways the words were used at that time and then post actual Greek or Latin literature where specific words and even identical phrases are used.  I add as little of "me" as possible.


Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

There is a secret code: Only those with A holy spirit (theirs) or A good conscience or consciousness can read BLACK text on BROWN paper. If I said that the NAME of the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ the Righteous all of the "progressives" would have all of their tilt lights blinking.

Jeremiah 6:10 To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear?
        behold, their ear is uncircumcised,
        and they cannot hearken:
        behold, the word of the Lord is unto them a reproach;
        they have no delight in it.

2Cor. 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face,
        that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

2Cor. 3:14 But their minds were blinded:
        for until this day remaineth
        the same vail untaken away
        in the reading of the old testament;
        which vail is done away in Christ.

2Cor. 3:15 But even unto this day,
        when Moses is read
, the vail is upon their heart.

2Cor. 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, [Baptism]
        the vail shall be taken away.  [Receiving A holy spirit]

Jesus used the example of being CONVERTED and BORN AGAIN like a child
Luke recorded the example of BAPTISM to be SAVED and CONVERTED meaning the same thing.

Until you are CONVERTED you will not be able to read WHOLE THOUGHT PATTERNS written in BLACK INK on WHITE paper.

Epi-strephô , pf.
c. Philos., cause to return to the source of Being, tinas eis ta enantia kai ta prôta
       Proteros and prôtos    II. of Time, former, earlier, children by the first or a former marriage,
       Prosthhen in front, before, formerly, of place and of time;
                            to gennêthen phusei pros to gennêsan
Genn-aô beget, bring forth, engender, call into existence
Phuo 1 Act.:--bring forth, produce, put forth, 2. beget, engender, get understanding,
Pros in the direction of
Genn-aô beget, bring forth, engender, call into existence
Deut XXX WEB. It shall happen, when all these things are come on you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you shall call them to mind among all the nations, where Yahweh your God has driven you,

[2]  and shall RETURN to Yahweh your God, and shall OBEY his voice according to all that I command you this day, you and your children, with all your heart, and with all your soul;

[3]  that then Yahweh your God will turn your captivity, and have compassion on you, and will return and gather you from all the peoples, where Yahweh your God has scattered you.
2Cor. 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Cor. 3:18 But we all,
        with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
        are changed into the same image from glory to glory,
        even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Royce Ogle: So, to keep a promise, and to give his views an airing that he feels others will not allow, here is the text of our online conversation by email.
But, Royce didn't do that: He first did a set up intending to mark me as a wacky old man. So, to be fair after all of these months of disinterest I thought I would respond to the EXTRA CURRICULAR ACTIVITY of Royce.  Adding the introduction was as slick as a salted slug.

Home Page

3.14.12  6.11.15  357 4.30.16 455

<img src="/cgi-bin/Count.cgi?df=piney/counter_Royce.Ogle.Refutes.Kenneth.Sublett.on.Instruments.html.dat">