Rubel Shelly: Plato Versus The Bible Reviewed by: Kenneth Sublett, Piney.com, Hohenwald, Tennessee
Dr. Rubel Shelly who practices Narrative Theology believes that the sifter of time has left only seven historical facts ABOUT Jesus Christ in the Bible. On the other hand, John is used as an example of one who took fragments of the Bible and used the sifter of time and theology and phylosophy and his own theological agenda to explain that which has been lost to us. Time, he believes, is the sifter of all but the CORE GOSPEL while the rest is up for constructing our own story which better fits our times. If true then one wonders whether the seven facts about Jesus are not also just temporary sifted fragments. In the next article, we will see that Rubel Shelly takes the false accusation that Jesus was a winebibber and "reincarnates" it is the absolute truth.
Without exception, those who claim that God cannot communicate through human words on paper always say: "But, I can if the price is right."A merchant can hardly keep from wrongdoing, and a tradesman will not be declared innocent of sin. Ecclest 26:29.
Many have committed sin for a trifle, and whoever seeks to get rich will avert his eyes. Ecclest 27: 1.As a stake is driven firmly into a fissure between stones,so sin is wedged in between selling and buying. Ecclest 27:2.The kiln tests the potter's vessels; so the test of a man is in his reasoning. Ecclest 27:5.
If a man is not steadfast and zealous in the fear of the Lord, his house will be quickly overthrown. Ecclest 27:3.
........ When a sieve is shaken, the refuse remains; so a man's filth remains in his thoughts. Ecclest 27:4.
By definition of a sieve, what comes out the bottom is pure. However, what remains is filth, garbage, chaff. Therefore, the notion that the "Bible has been sifted to leave just seven facts about Jesus means that all of the remainder is just garbage."
The fruit discloses the cultivation of a tree; so the expression of a thought discloses the cultivation of a man's mind. Ecclest 27:6.
........Do not praise a man before you hear him reason, for this is the test of men. Ecclest 27:7. If you pursue justice, you will attain it and wear it as a glorious robe. Ecclest 27:8.
........Birds flock with their kind; so truth returns to those who practice it. Ecclest 27:9.
Anyone who takes a SIFTER to the Word of God will let all of the good stuff flow trhough and what he has left is what someone else SIFTED IN.
THIS MAY BE YOUR ARMAGEDDON
Abbadon or Apollyon is Apollo Whose Seeker System Existed When John Wrote.
Lactantius: True Worship Chapter XXI.-Of the Pleasures of the Ears, and of Sacred Literature.
Pleasure of the ears is received from the sweetness of voices and strains, which indeed
is as productive of vice as that delight of the eyes of which we have spoken.
But we have already spoken of spectacles: there remains one thing which is to be overcome by us,that we be not captivated by those things which penetrate to the innermost perception.
For all those things which are unconnected with words, that is, pleasant sounds of the air and of strings, may be easily disregarded, because they do not adhere to its, and cannot be written.
Ye who are approaching the evil day, who are drawing near and adopting false sabbaths; Amos 6:3LXX
who sleep upon beds of ivory, and live delicately on their couches, and eat kids out of the flocks, and sucking calves out of the midst of the stalls; 6:4 (stolen by the tyrants)who excel in the sound of musical instruments;
they have regarded them as abiding,not as fleeting pleasures; 6:5 LXX
Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. Am.5:23
Or: who excel (marginal "applaud") in the sound of musical instruments; they have regarded them as abiding, not as fleeting pleasure." Amos 6:5 LXX (Jesus did read this version).
Pepys, ravished (raped) by the sound of wind music in the theatre, was reminded of the time when he was in love with his wife.
"For some people this is the height of enjoyment, provided the music presents no problems. But it is neither a substantial nor a lasting pleasure, and it is limited by the endowments of individual performers."
"But a well-composed poem, and a speech be-guiling with its sweetness, captivate the minds of men,and impel them in what direction they please.For they seek that which may soothe the senses. But whatever is pleasant to the ear effects persuasion, and while it delights fixes itself deeply within the breast.
Hence, when learned men have applied themselves to the religion of God, unless they have been instructed by some skilful teacher, they do not believe.For, being accustomed to sweet and polished speeches or poems, they despise the simple and common language of the sacred writings as mean.
Is God, therefore, the contriver both of the mind, and of the voice, and of the tongue,unable to speak eloquently? Yea, rather, with the greatest foresight, He wished those things which are divine to be without adornment,
that all might understand the things which He Himself spoke to all.
Therefore he who is anxious for the truth,
who does not wish to deceive himself, must lay aside hurtful and injurious pleasures,
which would bind the mind to themselves, as pleasant food does the body: true things must be preferred to false, eternal things to those which are of short duration, useful things to those which are pleasant.
Let nothing be pleasing to the sight but that which you see to be done with piety and justice;
let nothing be agreeable to the hearing but that which nourishes the soul and makes you a better man. And especially this sense ought not to be distorted to vice, since it is given to us for this purpose,
that we might gain the knowledge of God.
Therefore, if it be a pleasure to hear melodies and songs, let it be pleasant to sing and hear the praises of God. This is true pleasure, which is the attendant and companion of virtue. This is not frail and brief, as those which they desire, who, like cattle, are slaves to the body; but lasting, and affording delight without any intermission.
Dr. Shelly has given the Exodus a second incarnation: he sees the musical idolatry for which God turned Israel over to worship the starry host as a pattern for Christian worship and community. Amos 5 and 6 as well as Isaiah 5 defines the worship of the S.U.N. or other "wandering stars" as the TERMINAL stage of people going into captivity and death because their leaders had STARVED THEM TO DEATH BY TAKING AWAY THE WORD AS GOD'S "FOOD AND DRINK."
Totally consistent, he has "baptized" Santa and any of the "nation's" beliefs and practices which can be COLORED CHRISTIAN. That was the fallacy of the Catholic church which adopted pagan lights, music and ceremony from those "held by all cults." (See Catholic Encyclopedia under Candles).
You may read the entire sermon here:
"When Jesus Is Your Guest (John 2:1-12) Preached October 14, 2001, at Woodmont Hills Family of God, Reviewed October 14, 2001
First: How the World Generally Respects the Bible over Philosophy.
Speaking of the Bible
"Take (the Bible) as to its age--where else can authentic writings of such age be found? Its newest portions are near 2000 years old; its oldest part 3500 years. "Time," said a wise man "is a terrible sifter of books. Most books die in the year in which they are born. If a volume survives five or ten years it is above the ordinary. If it continues to hold interest for 50 or 100 years it has some special worth. If it is preserved even longer there must be some sort of pure gold in it."
"Judged by that standard, the Bible stands pre-eminent and commends its worth and value by the mere fact of its great age and its power to hold its own in the test of time.
"Again the sage of this world who told us how time so terribly sifts the books of men, spoke of the writings of Plato--how that, in his judgment, there were never more than a dozen people living at any one time who could fully understand and appreciate Plato; and for the sake of that dozen persons (he said) those writings have been tenderly handed down through the centuries. "Tenderly handed down"! That is said of ancient Plato's writing.
"But with the Bible it was far otherwise. No other book has ever outweathered such storms of opposition, malice, and hatred. Through long periods, kings and rulers, civil andecclesiastical authorities joined their efforts to destroy this book from the earth;
and even unto this day in some parts of the world has the ruthless power of despotism sought to extirpate this Book.
"Fifth-columnists" also boring from within, have all along tried to undermine the divine authority and message, have denied it, reviled it, ridiculed it.
Critics have "unmasked" it, and shot it full of holes. For all that the old Book is marching on triumphantly, sublimely indifferent to all hostility, and in greater force than ever before. The very hatred and opposition it has stirred up testifies to its greatness and importance. Was there ever any other book like that? Robert Boll
How Rubel Shelly Treats Inspiration.
Speaking of the writers of the New Testament Dr. Rubel Shelly says that:
Rubel Shelly: They weren't journalists in the sense that we use that term today, but Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were faced with the question I've just posed to you.
They certainly had no equivalent to the Chicago Tribune, CBS Radio, or The (London) Times. But they did have a sense of history and the significance of its key events. They had been expecting God to act in history on behalf of the kingdom of God through a figure they called Messiah.
They believed that they had been witnesses to people and events surrounding the fulfillment of those expectations --and had a sense of obligation to "report" that story to others because of its profound significance. So they wrote our Four Gospels.
But Paul wrote:But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God. 1 Co.7:40
FOR this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, Ephesians 3:1If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward: Ephesians 3:2
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words; Ephesians 3:3Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Ephesians 3:4
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; Ephesians 3:5
If Rubel Shelly is right then God is the author of confusion:
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace,as in all churches of the saints. 1 Cor 14:33
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 1 Cor 14:34
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 1 Cor 14:35
Speaking or singing their own songs is speaking in tongues. The 'uncovered prophesiers' of 1 Cor 11:5 had come out of paganism where usually women sang, danced, played instruments and composed their own "prophecy" as the word of the gods.
The Classics know this as "speaking in tongues" where the self-composed "revelation" was to fool the fools into thinking that they were inspired. Speaking in tongues was then interpreted by the priest to "fit your needs" of the moment. That is, the "preacher" translated the song where "songs" always speak a different language.
In the same way, Jesus identified them as the "children" of Satan because they also speak on their own:
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. John 8:38
Jesus then claims that they are not true Israelites because, to them, as at Pentecost, He was "speaking in tongues."Peter claimed to have received the Word in the unique mouth-to-mouth or face-to-face revelation of God and this had been proven by miracles. Therefore, he said that God had left us an example (written) as a MARK so we could identify the False Teacher who is a Liar just like his father.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. John 8:43
When he speaketh a lie,
........ he speaketh of his own:
........ for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44
Click to see that Hermes, Rubel claims for John's word, is the "god of music, of liars and of thieves." He is the original "interpreter" or Logos of the ancient World Dr. Shelly believes informed John.
Therefore, Paul warns those singing or speaking out of their "own spirit" that they WERE NOT the dispensers of new or unique revelation:What came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 1 Cor 14:36
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 1 Cor 14:37
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 1 Cor 14:38
If Jesus sent the apostles out into all the world with a message which was eternal, don't you expect that the Spirit had some input into "motivating" the writers to record their eyewitness accounts?
If Paul was wrong then Paul was a liar and a Satan. But Paul said that he didn't "speak in tongues" but always had his spirit aligned with what he knew as revealed truth "in his mind."
Rubel Shelly: Yet I'm not sure anybody thinks the Spirit of God woke up John or Matthew one morning and told him to sit down and write out an account of Jesus' life and ministry, death and resurrection.
I am quite certain that He picked ALL of the Apostles as TYPES of those who deliver truth versus Judas who was the son of perdition.
If we believe that John used the Shelly Sifter then John was a liar and a son of Satan. Furthermore, he was hallucinating and got the "revelation" out of his mad mind and not because he held long discorses with Greek Philosophers or had a copy of their latest theology. One sincerely doubts that John had a copy of Heraclitus.
THE Revelation of (2) Jesus Christ, which (1) God gave unto him, to (3) shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Rev 1:1
Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Revelation 1:2
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. Revelation 1:3
John was in the spirit or deep in mediation on the Lord's Day and not discoursing on Heraclitus or Philo. When he heard a voice like a trumpet behind him one might suspect that the Spirit of God woke up John" and told him to write a book:
I was in the Spirit on the Lords day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Rev 1:10
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. Re.1:11
I would not refute the writers of the New Testament such as John who wrote:
Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? John 21:23
This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. John 21:24
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. John 21:25
Witness is: Marturia (g3141) mar-too-ree'-ah; from 3144; evidence given (judicially or gen.): - record, report, testimony, witness.
Dr. Shelly's Narrative Theology is contrary to the evidence that all of the writers thought of themselves a being inspired recorders of the actual events. Even the correctives to Corinth was not out of Greek philosophy or Paul's "larger agenda." Rather, they were his futile attempt to advance them beyond the CORE GOSPEL so that they would be able to tolerate the deep doctrinal truth in his writings which are often commentaries on the prophets.
Not even Luke, the Historian, used anything but personal experiences and the collected experiences of those who were first-hand witnesses.
Nevertheless, continuing to plow up holy ground:
Rubel Shelly: I think they were responding to time and place by writing what they wrote.In the interplay of their free wills and the direction of the Holy Spirit,
They had their own personal, theological, pastoral, and evangelistic purposes in mind
when they planned and wrote these documents that survive to us in the New Testament.
........ they came up with an answer to their version of the question to put to you a few minutes ago:
That means: Personal opinion + The Holy Spirit = Inspiration.
This would make John a son of Satan and a liar. This sounds like the old legalism ladder: we can climb up our part of the way but then God reaches down and does what we are not able to do to save ourselves. While the Spirit does not overide the person's personality, He totally overides the person's knowledge base in a spiritual sense. Again, as with all of the ceremonial approach to God and even writing our own scripture is rank legalism.
Here is what Paul thought. He did not think that he interpreted the voice of Christ the Spirit and the other apostles.
THEREFORE we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. Hebrews 2:1
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; Hebrews 2: 2
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; Hebrews 2: 3
God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? Hebrews 2: 4
Paul left a historical record of that. If Paul was just sifting Greek phylosophy then no wonder he didn't know what he was saying about "women's roles" and "music."
Certainly Paul knew the Greek world and its religion. That is why Paul didn't need to "sift" but recorded his record to the churches such as Corinth deliberately confronting things like speaking in tongues and music.
Perhaps it is because Paul "sifted in" the "speaking" or teaching as opposed to any "musical" role for the church that so many are so anxious to discredit Paul's inspiration.
Jesus spoke what He heard from the Father. He commanded the apostles to speak what they heard or that which would be revealed in time. Paul practiced tht Christ-Like treatement of the Holy Word and insisted that the churches use that Word as its one and only teaching resource which needs no private interpretaion or futher expounding:
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col.1:18
And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Col.2:19
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Col.3:4
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. Eph 4:16
- For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; Col 1:19
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Col.1:12
IF ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Col 3:1
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. Col 3:2
for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word (Logos) of God; Col 1:25 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Col 3:10 "Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." Eph 5:14 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generation, Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body (church) Be very careful, then, how you live--not as unwise but as wise, Eph 5:15
- but is now disclosed to the saints. Col 1: 26
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free:
Wherefore be ye not unwise, but
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles Col 1:27
but Christ is all, and in all. Col 3:11
understanding what the will of the Lord is. Eph 5:17
To present to you the word of God in its fullness Col 1:25
Let the word of Christ dwell
be filled with the Spirit Eph 5:18
We proclaim him,
........ admonishing and teaching
........ with all wisdom,
........ teach and admonish
........ one another
........ with all wisdom, and
so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. Col 1: 28
as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs
in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace
with gratitude in your hearts (proof of unity)
singing and making melody in your heart
of God in truth: Col 1:6
to God. Col 3:16
to the Lord; Eph 5:19
To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me. Col 1:29
giving thanks to God the Father through him. Col 3:17
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Eph 5:20
If the "pattern" in the above table has been stolen from you and replaced with Brother Singers and Sister Singers singing sentimental praise songs (superstitious and erotic) then you have been persuaded to "come down from the holy mountain" of God's Word and down into the dark valley of the Cainites used by Lucifer to suck up the worship and prevent you from hearing the entire Word of God unsifted by human philosophy.
If you have been "emotionally" seduced out of the garden then it is not likely that you will ever recover.
Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; 2 Peter 1:13Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. 1 Peter 1:12
Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. 2 Peter 1:14
Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease
to have these things alway in remembrance. 2 Peter 1:15
Peter the fisherman probably didn't understand "theological."
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter 1:16
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2 Peter 1:17
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Peter 1:18
If Peter has sifted the revealed Word of God through Greek philosophy (the source of the Shelly Logos and ZOE, the female instructing principle and the "beast") he would have been using cunningly devised fables. This would make Peter a liar and a son of Satan.
Men can teach but men cannot expound or solve further the Word of God. This means that they cannot sift in dashes of Greek fables as part of the revealed Word.
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Peter 1:19
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20
Epilusis (g1995) ep-il'-oo-sis; from 1956; explanation, i.e. application: - interpretation
Epiluo (g1956) ep-ee-loo'-o; from 1909 and 3089; to solve further, i.e. (fig.) to explain, decide: - determine, expound.
But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples. Mk.4:34
Epi-lusis A. release from, e. phob˘n [fear] didou A.Th.134 (lyr.): abs., exemption from banishment, [purgatory?]. The word dissertio also carries the idea of trying to REMOVE fear by explaining away any worry about keeping laws.
3089 luō loo'-o A primary verb; to “loosen” (literally or figuratively):—break (up), destroy, dissolve, (un-) loose, melt, put off.
2. solution, sophismat˘n explanation, 2 Ep.Pet.1.20, 2 Pet 34. spell, Magic:
Sophisma A.acquired skill, method, stage-trick, claptrap, rhetorikos 2. of persons, skilled in speaking, fit to be an orator Pi.O.13.17 2. in less good sense, sly trick, artifice, dikŕn dounai s. kak˘n E.Ba.489 , cf. Hec.258; eph' hŕmas tauta paronta s. Th.6.77, cf. D.35.2; stage-trick, claptrap
Pi.O.13.17 Pindar Ode 0.13  the Seasons rich in flowers have cast ancient inventiveness. But the fame for every work is due to its inventor. Whence did the graces of Dionysus first come to light, with the ox-driving dithyramb?  Who invented the bridle for the harness of horses, or placed the double king of birds on top of the temples of gods? And in Corinth the sweet-breathing Muse blossoms, and also Ares, with the deadly spears of young men.
g4486 rhegnum to sunder by separation of the parts, a shattering to minute fragments; but not a reduction to the constituent particles, or disrupt, lacerate; by implication to convulse (with spasms); figuratively to give vent to joyful emotions:
Magos [a^], ou, ho, Magian, one of a Median tribe 2. one of the priests and wise men in Persia who interpreted dreams, 3. enchanter, wizard, esp. in bad sense, impostor, charlatan, Heraclit.14, S.OT387, E.Or.1498 (lyr.), Pl.R.572e, Act.Ap.13.6, Vett. Val.74.17: also fem., Luc.Asin.4, AP 5.15 (Marc. Arg.). II. magos, on, as Adj., magical, magps technŕi prattein t
Magicus, belonging to magic, magic, magical. superstitiones, vanitates, that were invoked by incantations: linguae= skilled in incantations, cantus, magicae resonant ubi Memnone chordae, mysterious, id. 15, 5
Why has God taken careless sermonized philosophy and all "versifying of sentimental poetry" out of the process. Why? If men can "further explain" the words of God then why didn't God let men make up their own without His dying to do it?
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21
> Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter 1:11
> And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Revelation 19:10
> Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17
Musical praise and dance teams claim "we are priests." "We are mediators between man and God." Since the pulpit area is typified in architecture as the "holy place" these presumptuous people are "standing in the holy place claiming 'I am God.'"
So, again listen to Jesus defining a form of "speaking in tongues."Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. John 8:43
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth
because there is no truth in him.
When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own:
for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44
If John or Peter or Paul taught out of their own heads based on their own present needs and the "times" then Jesus says that they are liars.
Rubel Shelly: How would you tell the most important story ever told in human history?
The decision was not to write a huge tome of abstract theory and theological principle
but to record anecdotal information about the One who ushered in the kingdom of heaven
and founded the Christian religion. Their strategy was to tell the big story through the little stories.
I would listen to Paul tell Timothy, a spiritually gifted man, what to do to tell the story without bending it to fit my times and problems:
Till I come, give attendance to (public) reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 1 Tim 4:13
Joel wrote that the Dabar (Logos, Spirit of Christ) spoke to him long before Dr. Shelly and the Greeks wrote of their "logos" as Mercury or Hermes the "father of those who handle musical instruments, the father of liars and the father of thieves."If we want to know about Joel's prophecy we read Joel to whom the WORD spoke. If we want to know the fulfilment of this prophecy then we listen to Peter. If we believe that on the day of Pentecost Peter, the humble fisherman, was such a theologian with a personal evangelistic agenda that he just sifted the prophecy to fit his needs then Peter was a liar and the true child of Satan.
THE word of the Lord that came to Joel the son of Pethuel. Joel 1:1
Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers? Joel 1:2Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation. Joel 1:3
Jesus identified Peter as Satan when Peter spoke out of his own mind:
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. Matt 16:22
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savourest (thinking) not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matt 16:23
Therefore, Jesus said that if any of the inspired people sifted the Word of God through their own MINDS then they are liars and the sons of Satan.
Then, since Peter says that the inspired Words of Christ needs and cannot tolerate any "further expounding" I would just "speak the Word" and let the "singing" be in the heart to perform "worship in spirit and in truth." The Spirit has said the same things many times and by searching the Scriptures they will interpret themselves. Any study of the culture and pagan practices will help us see and understand the mind of Paul but that culture must never allow us to retranslate the Word or simply abandon it.
This is why Paul did write about theology: the direct command was to TEACH one another from the revealed Word.
I would shudder if I found myself suggesting that "John took liberties" to construct his own narrative theology for his own time and circumstances:
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Revelation 19:10
Rubel Shelly: This method may have been as inspired as its execution. I'm not sure that purely human effort would not have attempted to tell the story of God in the flesh by some means that would have obscured the message for all of us.
Indeed, when heretics like the Gnostics or Marcionites took the message of Jesus in hand to redefine its essential content, their project suffered for the sake of its complexity.
The Marcionites suffered from teaching that the unknowable but superior god of creation was a demonic power. The good "god" or "this his dispensation" and came to cancel the debt of the hostile god. His problem was in "proof texting" and denying the inspiration of the Old Testament.
Therefore, he disobeyed the eternal principle that the Holy Spirit needs no one to "further expound" the Word but just to teach it.
Marcion did nothing as violent with charging the Incarnate God of the Universe with dringing, manufacturing and approving intoxicants. Unless, of course, this was a parable showing that the end-time worship will not be interesting in God teaching them some spiritual value. Rather, they will want a New Winesking god to make their worship into a musical, drunk in the spirit, exhilarated "experience."
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20
Epilusis (g1995) ep-il'-oo-sis; from 1956; explanation, i.e. application: - interpretation
Epiluo (g1956) ep-ee-loo'-o; from 1909 and 3089; to solve further, i.e. (fig.) to explain, decide: - determine, expound.
"... a herald dare announce only what he is ordered to announce, no more and no less; he must also word it just so and not otherwise. The herald is only the loudspeaker of the radio... God wants heralds, he supplies the grand announcement to be made, and no herald can improve upon it... This God who sends his heralds with his announcement and the people to whom he sends his heralds are not expected to pay those heralds." (Lenski, 1 Thess., p. 250).
THE NARRATIVE THEOLOGY SIFTER
This is a sieve. You can use it to strain wine from the grape. Or, according to Lucian of Samosata defining Alexander the Oracle Monger's Seeker Center, you can set it spinning and the noise which comes out can be sold as a message from the gods. This was a bit more advanced that the old wineskin the witch of Endor used. It was less advanced than the "sounding gong" of 1 Cor 13:1 which was a brass echo chamber used to amplify the sound and terrify the enemy: we don't do that "in church" if we are under a "holy" spirit.Rubel Shelly: They had to strain the story of Jesus through philosophical sieves. They had to create and clarify special terms. They made entrance into their circles a matter of "enlightenment" as reflected in peculiar vocabulary and interpretations.
The soul of neo-orthodoxy is not the radical conclusions reached by open advocates of the system, but rather its epistemology, according to which the Bible is not, in its essence, the Word of God;it is a human witness to revelatory "events." Since the Bible is not the touchstone of revelation,
the believer's faith does not depend on it. Scripture is sifted by the historical-critical method
........ to discover what the believer might choose to regard as "authoritative."
Johann Salomo Semler, the father of the historical- critical method, was in revolt against the supernatural. His dictum: "The root of all evil (in theology) is the interchangeable use of the terms 'Scripture' and 'Word of God.'
"Sound familiar? Scripture, we are being taught, is the Word of God only in a secondary sense. Brotherhood teachers seek to shift the locus of faith from the Bible to Jesus, from the propositional to the Personal, from the objective to the existential, from biblical faith to mysticism.
It is a fact that all Jews who spoke or wrote to the Greeks used the vocabulary of the Greeks. However, it is possible to translate--if you have the spiritual gift or not--from Hebrew thought to Greek words. After all, the Septuagint (LXX) version had been in existance for perhaps 250 years and Jesus DID use that version.
We noted above that this is to accuse them of being Satan himself.
Dr. Rubel Shelly claimed that John borrowed the concept of "Logos" from the Greek and Jewish philosophers. However, this is the result of violating the "further solving" of the incomplete work of God the Holy Spirit. We showed that the Logos as translation of Dabar appears in the first parts of Genesis. God speaks as the Dabar or Logos and John didn't have to get the Phd philosophers to help STRAIN the story of Jesus through the eyeballs of humans.
The CORE GOSPEL heresy
Rubel Shelly: In the meanwhile, the core gospel has survived two millennia now in its narrative form of telling the big story through collections of little ones about Jesus.
Here is the only thing which has survived out of all that Jesus revealed as the Antitype of the entire Old Testament. Nothing of what He taught. Nothing of what HE THOUGHT that He as Spirit was revealing to the Apostles. Nothing of "doctrine" which is the meat of the Word. Nothing has survived but the CORE of the once Apple of God's Word. None of Paul explaining the "demon" worship of Sinai which endangered Corinth. None of the "sending across the sea" of Paul to the Romans. None of it has value because it has been put through the strainer. However, while the Spirit cannot preserve His Word, we as latter-day 13th apostles have the power to strain our own version of the Bible.
This is why those who see the Bible as foundation for faith and practice are called legalists. Not that they think that they can save themselves but they are legalists for depending on the Bible like everyone did and most do prior to the hallucinators of the CORE GOSPEL. Again, Paul was insulting the Corinthians when he decided "to know only Christ and Him crucifed."
All of the rest has been sifted through the wine sifter mixing in Greek philosophy to refute The Spirit of Christ as the DABAR in the Old Testament and the LOGOS clearly defined outside of John's account. John sifted out some Greek notions about the LOGOS which we have shown to be false and more of the Mercury or Hermes character as father of instrumental muiscian and musicians, liars and thieves. The Greek logos was in may ways like Satan.
Here is the CORE GOSPEL heresy:
In a sermon Dr. Rubel Shelly stated:
Here is what God wants churches passionate about:
(1) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, (2) that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
(3) "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36).
(4) "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: (5) While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (6) Since we have now been justified by his blood, (7) how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!" (Rom. 5:8-9).
These are the essentials of Christian faith. It is this core message about Jesus that we share in common with other
Outside the essence of the gospel,
This is the old Leroy Garret teaching as it is enhanced by the Vineyard:
Leroy Garrett stated an earlier pattern:
"This is to say that the gospel is not the whole of the New Testament scriptures,
for the gospel was a reality long before the scriptures were written.
So, we have the "oral gospel" which was in effect before the "graphe," and the seven ones defined above are the only things which we can use to accept or reject fellowship.
The Post-Modern "hermeneutic" of the Latter Rain (or Latter Reign at Jubilee) asks:
"Are you having difficulty discerning or receiving this "new revelation"?
Then you have been interpreting your Bible in the "old way""If this describes you, then you belong to the "Old Generation"
........ which will not enter in to "possess the land" in the Latter Rain Revival. You may even be a member of a denominational church, with its dogmatic confession of faith and statement of doctrine.
........ These legalistic forms will be relics of the past in the up and coming "Post-denominational Church." Paul Cain ........ advises that you "dump all that carnal stuff" (doctrine)
........ and listen to what the "spirit" is saying to the churches through the Latter Rain Prophets and Apostles,
........ who are dispensing many "new, sacred truths.
"For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2 RSV)
In the world in which we live, a lot of people are interested in what feels relevant, seems "politically correct" or has a valid ring to it. Few are interested in the truth. But a lot of those same people are desperately seeking truth in a relationship. They want someone, at least one person to whom they can turn who will not turn away.
That is why the Gospel points not to an idea but to a person, not to a truth but to The Truth. Jesus proved he was true to me when he died in my place.
Key Quote: "Paul was not given a message or a doctrine to proclaim, he was brought into a vivid, personal, overmastering relationship to Jesus Christ. Verse 16 [Acts 26:16] is immensely commanding--"to make thee a minister and a witness."
Of course, we miss the point that Paul stopped there because the Corinthians were still carnal confirmed by their composing their own songs and speeches.
In Narrative Theology, John York and Rubel Shelly would take the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai which lost Israel God's Covenant of Grace and had Him turn them over to worship the starry host (Acts 7), have its second incarnation as a pattern for Christian worship and community.
Astrology is one of the primary methods of obtaining a message from the dead.
How to Write Your Own "scripture."
Next, Dr. Shelly will use the most recent event to explain how the SEVEN HISTORICAL FACTS ABOUT JESUS supposedly actually happened. And that CORE GOSPEL is all that survived of the Biblical story.
Not to worry! However, the fallible apostles used the SIFTERS OF THEIR MINDS and contemporary philosophy and their personal agenda to invent or borrow concepts such as the LOGOS to tell the inspired story to fit their minds and their audience.
However, Jesus would define this as lying and the apostles as the sons of Satan.
And Peter would accuse them of taking eye-witness accounts of what he "believed" that he actually heard and do a private interpration by "further expounding." This, too, would make the apostles liars and virtually insane to suffer as they did just to preserve their own experiences.
Dr. Shelly swings back to the notion of inspiration:
Rubel Shelly: The decision was not to write a huge tome of abstract theory and theological principles but to record anecdotal information about the One who ushered in the kingdom of heaven and founded the Christian religion. Their strategy was to tell the big story through the little stories.
If you accept inspiration then each writer told the story for the simple fisherman and using parabolic language Jesus deliberately excluded the doctors of the law because He knew that they had no love for the Truth and would water it down and retail it--for a price, always for a price.
We can "understand" the process of Inspiration by a modern pattern? Asking: "What would you do if you were a 13th apostle?"
A Modern Parallel
Rubel Shelly: You and I are living through a big story in American history right now. People are going to look back on Sept.11, 2001, as long as the history of the United States is told. It is another of those days that will "live in infamy" for citizens of this nation. But the vast majority of us will not remember it in terms of global terrorism, international coalitions, particular military battles, or speeches. We will remember by means of the personal stories and anecdotes that will survive in their retelling.
We honest Disciples just READ and STUDY IT: that is all God asks of the ekklesia or synagogue or school of the Bible.
Any one taking in hand to record an orderly account will read the "written" record, interview eyewitnesses and have, of necessity, to depend on them. In the case of Jesus Christ, He selected, trained and Spirit empowered certain men. He told them to "go preach the gospel." Luke claims to be a historian but recording eyewitness acounts and did not sift the history for his own personal agenda.
Rubel Shelly: Yes, engineers will write detailed studies of the twin towers of the World Trade Center. They will calculate the stresses that toppled them -- the mass of two commercial airlines, quantities of fuel onboard them, temperature effects on steel, etc.
All the engineers can see is the garbage heap. He will not waste a microsecond trying to explain why the building came down: any TV viewer watching the burning fuel would Know that the building would come tumbling down and the only thing to learn from it is "Don't let terriorists get in your airplanes in the first place." In the end, the CORE VALUE is how to design buildings better and how to keep people from running into them.
There is absolutely nothing about little girls which will alter the CORE events: she is the consequence of people not GIVING HEED to the totality of the message.
And on and on about explaining the CORE EVENT by its subjective effects.
Rubel Shelly: But the real story of the tragedy is he story of a six-year-old daughter of a single mother who doesn't have anyone to be her family now. The big story is wrapped up in the little stories -- and no story involving a real person in God's own image is "little" in its significance.
There are two distinct events: First, what acutally happened has nothing to do with the young girl without a mother. The suffering child is based on the fact that the engineers probably decided NOT to follow the rules but to IMPROVIZE and push the laws to the limit.
The grown up girl can tell about the EFFECT the happening had on her life. However, the attack was an event of history and can and must be told by eyewitnesses and those who collected the evidence. If we depend on those affected by the experience we will get a subjective view. We can never know about the effect. Because of the tragedy the young girl might become a believer as a direct result.
None of these people are claimed to be guided by the Spirit of Christ as Christ promised to guied His picked witnesses. If they are "truth sifters" then they are no more than people hauling away the wreckage.
Rubel Shelly: Here is what the editors of The New York Times and Chicago Tribune decided about telling the big story of more than 5,000 people dying in New York City, Washington, D.C., and on United Airlines Flight 93. The story is too massive to get one's head around, so the best way to tell it is by recording profiles and photos of the men and women whose lives were snuffed out.
What an editor chooses to publish is exactly that which EXPLOITS the event for a profit: no more, no less. If WE want to build a tower then WE will take into consideration the ENGINEERING FACTS. Whether our tower will fall or not has NOTHING to do with sad events.
As an engineer who grasps logic 101aaa it seems that the full story begins with an evil agent who decided to snuff out the right of the world to hear the whole story. Then, he wrapped his arms around ignorant men who didn't quite grasp their evil task until they found their bodies being compressed inside of a tall building. There ARE no parts of this story which can be EXCLUDED so that we can get our arms around it. What is CORE to one person may be trivia to another.
Rubel Shelly: Those stories are summaries of the human toll of an inhuman act. "The idea was to convey the scale of what happened but also the humanity," said Jonathan Landman, metro editor for The New York Times. "You can show the scale of it by giving it a full page, and you reflect the humanity of it by writing the profiles of the individual people."
It was Plato who said once that the idea of God is just too big for the human mind to get around it. But what about the story of a baby? What about the story of a man talking with his friends and replying to his critics? What about a story of betrayal?
What about a whole series of "little stories" from the life of God who is tabernacled in flesh?
Apparently just like the Gnostics: They had to strain the story of Jesus through philosophical sieves. They had to create and clarify special terms. They made entrance into their circles a matter of "enlightenment" as reflected in peculiar vocabulary and interpretations.
Rubel thinks that he has his ARMS around the Bible well enough to CORRUPT it which in Peter's words meant to "sell learning at retail."
Plato was correct: philosophers cannot grasp God. God knew that and He knew that "there was no man" who could intercede or mediatiate. Therefore, God sent His "Own Right Arm" to be the one and only, unique teacher of mankind. That is why "further expounding" can be an insult to God.
Dr. Shelly's Postmodern view is older than Plato but Greek philosophy (from which John got the LOGOS idea according to Shelly) believed that you couldn't get your arms around ANY truth which was always in a FLUX.
"Cratylus was a follower of Heraclitus, who, most notably, carried his doctrine of flux to its logical extreme. Consequently, according to Aristotle, he "ended by thinking that one need not say anything, and only moved his finger; and [he] criticized Heraclitus for saying that one cannot enter the same river twice, for he himself held that it cannot be done even once."
He seems to have believed that true things cannot be said of things that change, because by the time words are uttered, things have changed.
Words, therefore, falsify reality by introducing stability where there is none, and we would do well to say nothing at all.
"Aristotle also tells us that "[i]n his youth Plato first became acquainted with Cratylus and the Heraclitean doctrines -- that the whole sensible world is always in a state of flux, and that there is no scientific knowledge of it -- and in after years he still held these opinions" (987a). Indeed, Plato named a dialogue after Cratylus in which he attributes the radical flux doctrine of Cratylus to Heraclitus
and then wrestles with the problems that such a view raises for understanding language.
"Whether Plato confuses Cratylus and Heraclitus in this dialogue for literary reasons or whether he is genuinely confused about the two is difficult to determine. In either case, Plato does adopt the radical view of flux to characterize the material world and, as Aristotle suggests, on this basis, determines that it is impossible to have knowledge of it. Aristotle maintains that this characterization is what caused Plato to develop his theory of transcendent ideas, or forms, thereby rendering knowledge possible.
"But I can get a NEW VISION through NEW GLASSES and do what Christ the Spirit could not do, but "for a price, always for a price."
Plato would ask:
"Consider a well-anthologized example: Can God create a rock too big for himself to lift? If one replies yes, God can create a rock too big for himself to lift, then it follows that there is something that God cannot do: namely, lift that rock. If one replies no, God cannot create a rock too big for himself to lift, then it also follows that there is something that God cannot do: namely, create that rock.
That is why God PUT DOWN the wise and tower builders and counters: He said that doctors of the Law take away the key to knowledge. The SOPHISTS are excluded from the role as HERALDS who doesn't fail to deliver a message from the king to the general JUST BECAUSE he cannot understand it. Athenian law OUTLAWED sending our Philosophers or poets because they could not be trusted with just, in Paul's words, "teach that which has been taught.""Of course God commands us not to do certain things. But no one claims that these commands are the sole basis for morality, or that God issues these commands arbitrarily, for no good reason. There is nothing arbitrary about a parent forbidding her children from playing in the street; why should it be any different for God?" Resource
While Rubel allows private worship it also involves some method to do an end run and see God manifested outside the face of Lord Jesus Christ. He is quoting himself from his book in which he noted.
Rubel Shelly: "an assembly with other determined worshipers when a block of time is intentionally set aside to seek the face of God."
"Plato observed that the idea of God is too big for the human mind to wrap around. Precisely! And thus is born the attitude from which worship springs. When one becomes aware of a God who is more than the conclusion to a theistic argument, greater than anything the human understanding can approach, and too magnificent to explain,he bows before that God and whispers, "Holy!'
Or he dances before him and shouts, "Holy!"
Or he weeps before him and cries, "Holy!" Or he is too struck with awe to say anything at all." (Rubel Shelly and Randy Harris, The Second Incarnation, p. 118-119.)
The problem is that Christ in Spirit ordained the Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness: it was quite identical to the ekklesia or synagogue Jesus exampled, Paul preached and the church followed for centuries. The assembly was a School of the Word of God only and the only "worship" is in giving heed to Jesus Christ through HIS Words. The holy convoation H4774 Miqra was.
Num 10:7 But when the congregation is to be gathered together, ye shall blow, but ye shall not sound an alarm.
H6951 qahal kaw-hawl From H6950 ; assemblage (usually concretely): assembly, company, congregation, multitude.
Qahal is the most common word for the synagogue which was for verbal instruction only. H7321 rua roo-ah' A primitive root; to mar (especially by breaking); figuratively to split the ears (with sound), that is, shout (for alarm or joy): blow an alarm, cry (alarm, aloud, out), destroy, make a joyful noise, smart, shout (for joy), sound an alarm, triumph.
The prophecy of Judas as the Familiar Friend was that he would try to TRIUMPH OVER Jesus.
By this I know that thou favourest me, because mine enemy doth not triumph over me. Psalm 41: 11
Con-grĕgo Congrego Academia congregation. where plato taught, scholars are called Academici, and his doctrine Philosophia Academica.. The philosophy of the Acadamy,A. For The philosophy of the Academy: instaret academia, quae quidquid dixisses,Simplex I. In gen., simple, plain, uncompounded, unmixed,Tuba Apart from military purposes, it was used on various occasions, as at religious festivals, games, funerals,
b. Sonorous, elevated epic poetry,
c. A lofty style of speaking,
tuba belli civilis,i. e. exciter, author, instigato
Cicero F 6. The passport has not been issued at once, owing to the amazing rascality of certain persons, who would have been bitterly annoyed at a pardon being granted to you, whom that party call the "bugle of the civil war"--and a good many observations to the same effect are made by them, as though they were not positively glad of that war having occurred.Vergil, Aeneid 5.104
Now came the day desir'd. The skies were bright
With rosy luster of the rising light:
The bord'ring people, rous'd by sounding fame
Of Trojan feasts and great Acestes' name,
The crowded shore with acclamations fill,
Part to behold, and part to prove their skill.
And first the gifts in public view they place,
Green laurel wreaths, and palm, the victors' grace:
Within the circle, arms and tripods lie,
Ingots of gold and silver, heap'd on high,
And vests embroider'd, of the Tyrian dye.
The trumpet's clangor then the feast proclaims,
And all prepare for their appointed games. clango, no
I.perf., ĕre, 3, v. n. [kindred with crocio, glocio; cf. clamo and klaz˘] , to clang, to sound, resound (rare; only in ante-class. and post-Aug. poets): crepitu clangente, Att. ap. Non. p. 463, 16:
horrida clangunt signa tubae,Stat. Th. 4, 342 ; cf.: luctificum clangente tubā,Val. Fl. 3, 349 : clangunt aquilae, Auct. Carm. Phil. 28.Ululo UlŭloI. Neutr., to howl, yell, shriek, utter a mournful cry. B.Transf., of places, to ring, resound, re-echo with howling: penitusque cavae plangoribus aedes Femineis ululant,Verg. A. 2, 488 : resonae ripae,Sil. 6, 285 : Dindyma sanguineis Gallis,
fēmĭnĕus II.Transf., with an accessory notion of contempt, womanish, effeminate, unmanly:
magicus , a, um, adj., = magikos, of or belonging to magic B. To say urgently or continually (late Lat.): vernacula principi, Amm. 17, 11, 1 . Ubcijws vt ubxBRbrRUIBA
A. superstitio , o-nis, f. [super-sto; orig a standing still over or by a thing; hence, amazement, wonder, dread, esp. of the divine or supernatural] . II. In post-Aug. prose sometimes for religio, religious awe, sanctity; a religious rite:
B. vanitas , a-tis, f. [vanus] . B. Esp., falsity, falsehood, deception, untruth, untrustworthiness, fickleness, etc.
C. resono to sound or ring again, to resound, re-echo
D. Cantus I. Neutr., to utter melodious notes, to sing, sound, play.Transf., of the instruments by which, or (poet.) of the places in which, the sounds are produced, to sound, resound:
Then Shelly - Harris pulls you back from the brink and warns that: "To create settings that deliberately manipulate emotions and tantalize participants is cheap theater rather than worship." At the same time, "when an encounter with the Living God is fostered -- with whatever 'feelings' may accompany that encounter (e.g., celebration, melancholy, tears, laughter, judgment, etc.) -- has worship transpired."
Church "worship theater" is not CHEAP THEATER! Very expensive!
Jesus said that worship happens only in the spirit or mind and as it is devoted tot he "Spirit of Truth" or the Word. Furthermore, Paul's only clear "worship" concept is to GIVE HEED to Christ by GIVING HEED to His word which is Spirit and Truth.
Synagogue or school of the Bible occurs in the Holy Place of the "breat, candlesticks of enlightenment and the incense or our prayers. No music allowed in the Holy Place on the penalty of death.
Our WORSHIP happens in the MOST HOLY PLACE where we come boldly before the throne of grace in darkness and silence: no music allowed when we worship God!
"Music and gymnastic (must) be preserved in their original form, and no innovation made. They must do their utmost to maintain them intact. And when anyone says that mankind must regard...The newest song which the singers have,
they will be afraid that he may be praising, not some new songs, but a new kind of song;
........ and this ought not to be praised, or conceived to be the meaning of the poet
........ for any musical innovation is full of danger in the whole State, and ought to be prohibited.
So Damon tells me, and I can quite believe him; he says that when modes of music change, the fundamental laws of the State (church) always change with them..."
"Then," I said, "our guardians must lay the foundations of their fortress in music?"
"Yes," I replied, 'in the form of amusement: and at first sight it always appears harmless'." (The Great Dialogs, Plato, Classic edition, p. 312)
Plato also ridiculed the idea that "tithes and offerings" or a clergy is necessary for the "gods" to do their work:In the next place, we must not let them be receivers of gifts or lovers of money.
Neither must we sing to them of
"Gifts persuading gods, and persuading reverend kings. Neither is Phoenix, the tutor of Achilles, to be approved or deemed to have given his pupil good counsel when he told him that he should take the gifts of the Greeks and assist them;
but that without a gift he should not lay aside his anger. Neither will we believe or acknowledge Achilles himself to have been such a lover of money that he took Agamemnon's or that when he had received payment he restored the dead body of Hector, but that without payment he was unwilling to do so. Plato, Republic
Because God is Pure or Holy Spirit He came in the flesh to "image" Himself in human terms to show us what to believe and how to react about God. If we allow the spectators to tell the story then Simon the sorcerer would not have an inspired record. Cornelius could tell about the story but he could not explain the Spirit of God or the Mind of Christ without gross error. So, Cornelius the spectator was not allowed to leave a record.
In the next section, Rubel Shelly makes the same outrageous accusation about Jesus which the Pharisees and others of the first century Post-Modern or Narrative Theology cult made: that Jesus manufacured 180 gallons of fermented wine (strong drink) for an already-drunk wedding party, and that Jesus was a winebibber.
The end-time Great Harlot will be be drunk with "new wine" or "the blood of Christ."
And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Re 17:5
I saw the woman, drunk with the blood (haima new wine or the blood of Christ) of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement. Re 17:6
And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. Re 17:7
"Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. Re.17:9
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Rev 18:22
Castigating the worship of the starry host such as in Amos 5 and 6 had God saying, "You offer the sacrifice to me but you eat the meat." Furthermore, the drink offering must be POURED OUT on the altar:
"The Lord, the LORD Almighty, called you on that day to weep and to wail (repent), to tear out your hair and put on sackcloth. Isa 22:12
But see, there is joy and revelry, slaughtering of cattle and killing of sheep, eating of meat and drinking of wine! "Let us eat and drink," you say, "for tomorrow we die!" Isa 22:13
The LORD Almighty has revealed this in my hearing: "Till your dying day this sin will not be atoned for," says the Lord, the LORD Almighty. Isa 22:14
Jesus defined the Jewish theologians as liars and sons of Satan specificially because they set aside the commandments of God just so they could write their own narrative theology. What was their motive? It was to suck in the seekers and use "financial planners" to steal the widow's inheritance or even steal their "church" houses.
Any effort to poke fun at God by poking fun at inspiration will always find lots of "seekers." However, in the end they will steal your temple and convert it into a "venue for Rock and Roll and Contemporary Christian Music" (the ultimate oxymoron).
Then, they will have truly converted the S.O.N. into the S.U.N. and you will see a living, breathing latter day second incarnation of the Seeker Center of Apollo (Abbadon or Apollyon). Here is the evidence that you have restored S.U.N. worship featuring the "stars" just as did the Jews at Topheth (tambourine) which began as "the king's music grove" and came to stand for hell itself: the place of everlasting burning where the Babylon king/queen will be consumed along with his/her harps and musicians by fire and a bed of maggots.The final blow will be to be 'Anxious to malign Christ' by accusing Him of being a Wine Drinker, Wine Manufacturer and Distributer. He will become Dionysus the "god of new wineskins" and Zoe the "female instructing principle" identified as "the beast" in the Greek and more ancient SIFTINGS which permeate "christianity." This is the sign to "come out of her."
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