ACU Lectureship Summitt 2008 Review Proving that those called to the SUMMIT have promoted musical idolatry and Romans proves that they are UNrighteous and have repeated the musical idolatry patternism of Mount Sinai.
Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Ronnie Norman skips around in Romans 14 to prove that that unity is prevented because people refuse to accept other people's MUSICAL PRACTICES taken FROM the pagan and perverted sects into what Paul called a synagogue which is only a "school of the Words"of Christ in the prophets and apostles. The only issue is WHAT FOODS would the people be seen buying or eating in the public marketplace AND what DAYS they would be SEEN by church members and whose temple market they would attend. Paul does not give the remotest support for ACCEPTING people in THEIR assemblies who wanted to debate the food and days. Nor, does he tolerate the religious practices of either sect all of which used music--which has only entertainment and fleecing value--which would be both perverting and making the BIBLE CLASS in Romans 15 impossible.
In Romans 14 Paul outlawed ANY of the sectarian religious practices and in Romans 15 outlawed SELF-pleasure which includes the same musical and perverting practices.
There were three sects in Rome who would be identified by their diet in the marketplace: the Dionysiacs, Orphics and Pythagorians. However, as Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and dancers to the marketplace, we know that all of these SECTS were highly addicted to charismatic (sexual) music to INDUCE a feeling of the gods being with them. This is the purpose driving all who introduce "machines for doing hard work." They are the WEAK in the faith insisting on imposing the "laded burden" of music over the heads of people who are INFIRM and would be damaged by the "music."
YOU CANNOT IMPOSE ANYTHING WHICH IS NOT FOR EDUCATION OR WHICH IS BASED ON HUMAN DECISIONS
In the very first verse Paul as usual repudiates those things people promote as "diversities of opinion." Doubtful disuptations to destroy what Paul calls "synagogue" or school of the Bible in Romans 15 where SELF-pleasure is outlawed which outlaws all of the performing arts so that we can "speak that which is written witn one mind and one mouth."
“Disputing” implies a questioning mind and suggests an arrogant attitude by those who assume they’re always right. Arguing with others in the body of Christ is disruptive. That’s why Paul spent the first part of chapter 2 on humility.
To dwell above, with saints we love, that will be grace and glory
But to live below with saints we know, now that’s a different story!
Dialogismos is used 14 times in the NAS (Matthew; Mark; Luke 6x; Romans 2x; 1 Corinthians; Philippians; 1 Timothy; James) and is translated as: argument, 1; disputing, 1; dissension, 1; doubts, 1; motives, 1; opinions, 1; reasonings, 2; speculations, 1; thoughts, 3; what...were thinking, 2
Dialogismos is used 11 times in the Septuagint (LXX) (Ps 40:5, 56:5, 92:5, 94:11, 139:2, 139:20, 146:4, Isa 59:7, Jer 4:14, Lam 3:60-61) Dialogismos often means the perverse, vain thinking which contemplates destruction (Ps. 94:11), and is turned against God (Jer. 4:14; Isa. 59:7) and against the godly (Ps. 56:5).Rom. 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord,
Commenting on Phil 2:14, MacArthur notes that dialogismos...
soon developed the more specific ideas of questioning, doubting, or disputing the truth of a matter. In Romans 14:1, the word is used of passing judgment on another believer’s opinions and in 1 Timothy 2:8 it is rendered “dissension.” Whereas grumbling is essentially emotional, disputing is essentially intellectual. A person who continues to murmur and grumble against God will eventually argue and dispute with Him. (MacArthur, J. Philippians. Chicago: Moody Press)
every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom. 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom. 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more:
but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock
or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.
G4348 proskomma pros'-kom-mah From G4350 ; a stub, that is, (figuratively) occasion of apostasy:—offence, stumbling (-block,[-stone]). To FURNISH one with an occasion ofor sinning.See Isaiah 8 to see what Ronnie Norman and friends are fulfilling:
The Stumbling Blick is also:Is. 8:10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought;The PURPOSE DRIVING this is that it is the ONLY MARK for identifying those who do NOT "teach that which has been taught." They defacto repudiate the Spirit OF Christ by "not speaking according to this word" and that means that there is NO TRUTH or LIGHT in them
speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.
Is. 8:11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand,
and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,
Is. 8:12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say,
A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
Is. 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself;
and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
Is. 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary;
but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel,
for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Is. 8:15 And many among them shall stumble,
and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
Is. 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
Is. 8:17 And I will wait upon the LORD,
that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.
Is. 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me
are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts,
which dwelleth in mount Zion.
Is. 8:19 And when they shall say unto you,
Seek unto them that have familiar spirits,
and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter:
should not a people seek unto their God?
for the living to the dead?
The familiar spirit is a dry, empty wineskin. It serves as the echo chamber of the nebel which means 'VILE.' It has the same meaning as the harp and the sounding gongs in 1 Cor. 13.
The Wizzard is one who thinks that they can hear the Word of God "beyond the sacred page." John called them sorcerers because they used rhetoric, singers and instrumentalists to STEAL the Word and money from othersYiddeoniy (h3049) yid-deh-o-nee'; from 3045; prop. a knowing one; spec. a conjurer; (by impl.) a ghost: - wizard.To the law and to the testimony:
"In Isa 8:19 the 'obhoth and yidh'onim are spoken of those who 'chirp and mutter." These terms refer to the necromancers themselves who practiced ventriloquism in connection with their magical rites. In Isa 29:4 it is said 'Thy voice shall be as an 'obh, out of the ground.'... They are stamped in these passages, as in the Witch of Endor narrative, as deceivers practising a fraudulent art. By implication their power to evoke spirits with whom they were in familiar intercourse is denied." (Int Std Bible Ency., ency, p. 690)
H178 ’ôb obe From the same as H1 (Ab, Ab, Lord, Lord sayers: apparently through the idea of prattling a father’s name); properly a mumble, that is, a water skin (from its hollow sound); hence a necromancer (ventriloquist, as from a jar):—bottle, familiar spirit.
Amos and Jeremiah speak of the Marzeah connected with the wine, women and musical instruments. The Marzeah was a festival WITH and FOR the DEAD: Israel had a COVENANT WITH DEATH.
"The marzeah had an extremely long history extending at least from the 14th century B.C. through the Roman period. In the 14th century B.C., it was prominently associated with the ancient Canaanite city of Ugarit (modern Ras Shamra), on the coast of Syria...
The marzeah was a pagan ritual that took the form of a social and religious association... Some scholars regard the funerary marzeah as a feast for--and with--deceased ancestors (or Rephaim, a proper name in the Bible for the inhabitants of Sheol)." (King, Biblical Archaeological Review, Aug, 1988, p. 35, 35)
"These five elements are:
........(1) reclining or relaxing,
........(2) eating a meat meal,
........(3) singing with harp or other musical accompaniment,
........(4) drinking wine and
........(5) anointing oneself with oil." (King, p. 37).
if they speak not according to this word,
it is because there is no light in them. Isa 8:20
"The spirits were thought to speak in murmurings or piping sounds (Isa 8:19), which could be imitated by the medium (ventriloquist)...Most spiritual and popular was the interpretation of dreams.It also was the case that mediums intentionally would convert themselves into a semi-waking trance. In this way the suitable mediums attained to a certain kind of clairvoyance, found among various peoples. This approaches the condition of an ecstatically aroused pseudo-prophet.. In Greece, too, oracles were pronounced by the Phythian prophetess who by vapors and the like was aroused to a practice of the mantic art. (Int Std Bible Ency, p. 2466)
Jude 16 These are murmurers, complainers [blaming Fate], walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having mens persons in admiration because of advantage.deinos g. kai pharmakeus kai sophistēs” Pl.Smp.203d; “deinon kai g. kai sophistēn . . onomazōn” D.18.276; “apistos g. ponēros” Id.19.109; “magos kai g.” Aeschin.3.137: Comp. “goētoteros”
-Boêisi [.loud cry, shout, in Hom. mostly battle-cry, shout, murmur of a croud, song of joy, roar of the sea, sounds of musical instruments
-Sophis-tēs , ou, o(, A. [select] master of one's craft, adept, expert, of diviners, Hdt.2.49; of poets, “meletan sophistais prosbalon” Pi.I.5(4).28, cf. Cratin.2; of musicians, “sophistēs . . parapaiōn khelun”
II. from late v B.C., a Sophist, i.e. one who gave lessons in grammar, rhetoric, politics, mathematics, for money
3. later of the rhētores, Professors of Rhetoric, and prose writers of the Empire, such as Philostratus and Libanius, Suid.; “Apollōnidē sophistē” PLips. 97 X 18
Pharmak-eus , eōs, o(,A. poisoner, sorcerer, S.Tr.1140, Pl.Smp.203d, etc.; “gnēsioi sophistai kai ph.” Jul.Or.6.197d.
LOOK TO THE HILLS (ZOE) AND MOUNTAINS (ACU)
-Bacchae 215] I happened to be at a distance from this land, when I heard of strange evils throughout this city, that the women have left our homes in contrived Bacchic rites, and rush about in the shadowy mountains, honoring with dances
this new deity Dionysus, whoever he is.
I will soon stop them from this ill-working revelry. And they say that some stranger has come, a sorcerer, a conjuror from the Lydian land,-Epôidos A. singing to or over, using songs or charms to heal wounds, “epōdoi muthoi” Pl.Lg.903b. b. Subst., enchanter, “e. kai goēs” E.Hipp. 1038 (but “goēs e.” Ba.234): c. gen., a charm for or against, “ethusen hautou paida epōdon Thrēkiōn aēmatōn” A.Ag.1418 ; e.
fragrant in hair with golden curls, having in his eyes the wine-dark graces of Aphrodite. He is with the young girls day and night, alluring them with joyful mysteries. If I catch him within this house, I will stop him from making a noise with the thyrsos and shaking his hair, by cutting his head off.
2. epōdos, ho, verse or passage returning at intervals, in Alcaics and Sapphics, D.H.Comp.19; chorus, burden, refrainIs. 8:21 And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward.
Is. 8:22 And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness.
G4350 proskoptō pros-kop'-to From G4314 and G2875 ; to strike at, that is, surge against (as water); specifically to stub on, that is, trip up (literally or figuratively):—beat upon, dash, stumble (at).The same "demon worship" is repeated in 1 Corinthians 10.
Scandălum , i, n., = skandalon,I. that which causes one to stumble, a stumblingblock (eccl. Lat.). *I. Lit., Prud. Apoth. 47 praef.—II. Trop., an inducement to sin, a temptation, cause of offence, Tert. Virg. Vel. 3; id. adv. Jud. 14; id. adv. Marc. 3, 1; Vulg. Psa. 118, 165; id. 1 Johan. 2, 10
-scandalum , II. Trop., an inducement to sin, a temptation, Skandalisftes onewho performes on a "skandalon" or trapese, a snare, enemy, LXX Jo.23.13, 1 Ki.18.21, Ep.Rom.11.9, 1 Ep.Pet.2.7
II. v. skandalistês. poieô A.make, produce, first of something material, as manufactures, works of art,
psallōī, -psallō, to play upon a stringed instrument, sing to the cithara: elegantius, S.: Doctae psallere Chiae,
Elegantius similar to deveho, Exporto, deporto
ē-lēgo, āvi, 1, v. a., I.to convey away (from the family) by bequest, to bequeath away,
Gal 2:13 G4879 sunapagō soon-ap-ag'-o From G4862 and G520 ; to take off together, that is, transport with (seduce, passively
G5272 hupokrisis hoop-ok'-ree-sis From G5271 ; acting under a feigned part; that is, (figuratively) deceit (“hypocrisy”):--condemnation, dissimulation, hypocrisy
Elegantius similar toExporto Ex-porto , āvi, ātum, yield):--carry (lead) away with, condescend. I.to bear or carry out, to bring out, convey away, export (
Thriambeuo (g2358) three-am-byoo'-o; from a prol. comp. of the base of 2360 and a der. of 680 (mean. a noisy iambus, sung in honor of Bacchus); to make an acclamatory procession, i.e. (fig.) to conquer or (by Hebr.) to give victory: - (cause) to triumph (over).
Theodoret (Quasten, Music & Worship, p. 65) claimed that the Jews brought liturgical music from Egypt and Philo wrote that "Moses learned rhythm, harmony, meter and everything concerned with instrumental music from the Egyptians." This is why Moses knew that the noise at Mount Sinai was not the sound of defeat or of victory. Rather, it was the "sound of them singing that I hear."
The Jews sang in the type of the Egyptian threnodies (elegies for the dead):
Thus they made a golden bull, the image of an animal that was held to be the most sacred in that land; they offered unholy sacrifices, performed impious dances and sang hymns which differed in no way from the pagan mourning songs. Philo, De specialibus legibusClick for more information about the vile musical sects Paul does not even say we should tolerate.
Musical instruments are always the MARKS of people who have denied the Word and fallen beyond redemption. Before chapter 14 Paul warned of what could only define the musical sectarians in Rome:
Rom. 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand:
let us therefore cast off the works of darkness,
and let us put on the armour of light.
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers,
he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col. 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you
or in drink,
or in respect of an holyday,
or of the new moon,
or of the sabbath days:
Col. 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
G4655 skotos skot'-os From the base of G4639; shadiness, that is, obscurity (literally or figuratively):darkness.
G4639 skia skee'-ah Apparently a primary word; “shade” or a shadow (literally or figuratively [darkness of error or an adumbration]):—shadow-SkiaRom. 13:13 Let us walk honestly [decorous], as in the day;
2. reflection, image (in a bowl of oil), Sch.Il.17.755.
3. shade of one dead, phantom, Od.10.495, A.Th.992,
of worthless things, that phantom at Delphi, of the Amphictyonic council, D.5.25; hai tou dikaiou s. mere shadows of
4. evil spirit, Hippiatr.130, PMasp.188.5
also, of one worn to a shadow, A.Eu.302;
not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Rom. 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ,
and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.2054. eris, er´-is; of uncertain affinity; a quarrel, i.e. (by implication) wrangling: contention, debate, strife, variance.
Rioting: 2970. komos, ko´-mos; from 2749; a carousal (as if letting loose): revelling, rioting.
Strife: 2054. eris, er´-is; of uncertain affinity; a quarrel, i.e. (by implication) wrangling: contention, debate, strife, variance.
"Instruments, especially flutes and drums, were used to induce ecstasy, or frenzy, in the worshippers of certain deities. The devotees of Thracian Dionysus (Bacchus) engaged in orgies at night. Members of the society were seized with a divine madness as they danced to the music and would seize an animal who was believed to be the incarnation of the god, tear the body limb from limb, and eat it on the spot. By this sacred communion they hoped to attain union with their god and themselves become Baccoi. There was a wave of Bacchic enthusiasm that swept Italy in 185 B.C. and created such a scandal that it was sternly repressed by the Roman senate." (Green, William M., The Church Fathers and Musical Instruments" unpublished paper, p. 32).
Ronnie Norman bowed to the faithful people by NOT imposing these practices in THEIR time for assembly. However, he is saying that HE will force them to support provided a THEATER or VENUE for those who in Romans 14 are marked as musical and perverted.
Britannica Online notes "The first time theatre truly freed itself from religious ritual to become an art form was in Greece in the 6th century BC when the dithyramb was developed.
This was a form of choral song chanted at festivals in honour of Dionysus, the god of wine, fruitfulness, and vegetation.
"Originally, it celebrated his rejuvenation (revival) of the earth; later, it drew on Homeric legends for its subject matter. According to Greek tradition, the actor and playwright Thespis invented the drama when he augmented the chorus of the dithyramb with a single actor who wore masks to portray several different characters."Comedy (from Greek komos, meaning "revel") was presented competitively in Athens from 486 BC at the Lenaea winter festival, though it fused much earlier traditions of popular entertainment, mime, phallic rites, and revelry in honour of Dionysus. Ancient shamanistic ceremonies also may have influenced its development.
"Flute-players in this pose in komos scenes by the painter are generally intent upon a neighbouring dancing figure whom they are stimulating with their music. The flute-case, of leopard-skin, with its mouthpiece-box, hangs in the field. The dancer had too many trips to the new wineskin and the stick helps keep him going in his exhilaration."
ROMANS 14 ONLY TOLERATES MEATS AND DAYS AND IN THE MARKETPLACE AND NOT IN THE CHURCH ASSEMBLY.
Most meals and keeping of days would be an issue ONLY in the agora or marketplace. Nothing but superstiitions not connected to the Kingdom are discussed.
The non-Christian memebers of these sects all engaged in charismatic music to get themselves UP to an "intoxicated" state. Paul does NOT give these people to bring ANY doubtful or personal PREFERENCE into the synagogue which is defined inclusively and exclusively in Romans 15. None of thse sects could be IN THE FAITH unless they had repented.
WHY RESTRICT ALL THAT DOES NOT EDIFY MEANING EDUCATE IN ROMANS 15
Rom. 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink;Paul didn't say that the DOUBTFUL DISPUTATION which included INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC even though it deliberately sowed discord:
but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Diet and what day one shows up for the surplus food may not be approved by everyone. However, if you serve with righteousness, peace and joy in the Spirit of Christ which is His Word (John 6:63) can be approved by all in Romans 15 where Paul defines the assembly or synagogue.Rom. 14:18 For he that in these things [righteousness, peace and Joy in the spirit]
serveth Christ is acceptable to God,
and approved of men.
What comes OUT of the mouth defiles and destroys: that is why the WORD to be used in the assembly are defined in Romans 15 as "that which is written" or "Scripture."Matt. 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly,
and is cast out into the draught?
Matt. 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth
come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Matt. 15:19 For out of the heart
proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Matt. 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
That is why Paul established an ABSOLUTE DIRECT COMMANDRomans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Whatever comes ouft of human imagination.
In Romans 1 Paul calls us back to Mount Sinai where the people engaged in MUSICAL IDOLATRY and were turned over to worship the starry host.Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God,The synagogue or Church in the wilderness was INCLUSIVE of Rest, Reading and Rehearsing the Word of God: that never changed for the righteous people who were called inot assembly ONLY for instructions from God.
neither were thankful;
but became vain in their imaginations,
and their foolish heart was darkened.
See the story of the Golden Calf: you will find that most people who repudiate baptism which was a TYPE at the Red Sea also fall into the musical idolatry of the pagan trinity.
"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it; but the employment of music in religious services, though idolatrous, is more distinctly marked in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).
"In the New Testament there is nowhere any emphasis laid on the musical form of the hymns; and in particular none on instrumental accompaniment whereas this is significantly paganism." (Delling, Gerhard, Worship in the New Testament, trans. Percy Scott Phil. Westminster press, 1962, p. 86).
2 Cor 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, [lifeless instruments]
but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
2 Cor 10:5 Casting down imaginations,
and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God,
and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
What is commanded to be included:
Rom. 14:19 Let us therefore follow [Diakonos serve, minister]
after the things which make for peace,
and things wherewith one may edify another.
Disciples assemble for EDUCATION: this is the ONE ANOTHER meaning of speaking with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH using that which is written as a DIRECT COMMAND in Romans 15.
Those who imposed music at an time in church history KNEW that they would sow discord and they did not follow PEACE. God specificially HATES religious festivals (Acts, Isaiah etal) and HATES people who sow discord.
Eating was not part of the synagogue and outlawed for the church, so these would be excluded from discussion when the only discussion material was "that which is written" or "Scripture." Paul DID NOT say that you must accept everyone in the ASSEMBLY: You MUST NOT accept those whose PREFERENCE is instrumental music which is not just the diet preferences and the pagan holy days they showed up to buy the surplus food from sacrifice.
What is commanded to be excluded:
Proslambano (g4355) pros-lam-ban'-o; from 4314 and 2983; to take to oneself, i.e. use (food), lead (aside), admit to friendship or hospitality: - receive, take (unto).
Dialogismos often means the perverse, vain thinking which contemplates destruction. It was used to describe the reasoning of those who thought themselves wise (Ro 1:21, 1Cor 3:20)
NIDNTT notes that.. The thoughts of the human heart do not necessarily lead, as the Greeks thought, to a knowledge of the truth (cf. 1 Cor. 1:21-25), but are evil (Mk. 7:21; Matt. 15:19), full of doubt and suspicion (Mk. 2:6, 8; Lk. 5:22; 6:8), moved by the passing moment (Lk. 3:15), full of greed (Lk. 12:17; 20:14), always concerned with the superficial (Mk. 8:16f.; Matt. 16:7f.) and full of sly calculation (Matt. 11:25; Mk. 11:31).
Because of the claim to want to become a MARKET DRIVEN Church:
2 Pet. 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
Ronnie Norman proposes to destroy the peace so that he can impose the immoral practices of the Roman sects Paul excludes from the discussion in the asssemblies. Edification in the church is only through speaking and excludes music.
How edification is to take place in the ekklesia or church:
Aedificatio, III. Figurative, building up, instructing, edification. Absolute: loquitur ad Aedificationem Ecclesiae, Vulg. 1 Cor. 14, 12 ; ib. Eph. 4, 12.
The phrase loquitur ad Aedificationem Ecclesiae defines THE meaning of the ekklesia or church and the same METHOD excludes music of any kind--more later.
Loquor to talk, whisper; to speak, talk, say in the language of common life, in the tone of conversation; instruction. The assured edification of his church. --Bp. Hall.
The PLACE where this quiet, calm non-pleasuring "teaching of one another" is the:
Ecclesia ekklêsia, an assembly of the people.
As common sense would indicate, all of the SPEAK words are EXCLUSIVE in saying "the opposite of poetry or music.
Those who were weak in the faith in Rome should not be rejected from attending the ekklesia or church in Rome based on their DIET and keeping other DAYS. The sole purpose of the church was to instill strong faith by rejecting their old worship rituals and speaking that which is written just as the elders are commanded to teach that which had been taught. Peter defined that miracle--attested Word of God as the PATTERN to be followed so that it would MARK as false teachers those who "spoke on their own" Jesus defined as the sons of the Devil.
DOUBTFUL DISPUTATIONS ABOUT DIET AND MARKET DAYS MUST BE HELD AS PRIVATE OPINION.
The worship rituals of all three sects were NOT to be included: doubtful disputations excluded any role in the assembly for the ideas derived from the minds of man and excluded from dialog or speaking those who were so identified as self seeking.Rom. 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God.
Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom. 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat,
because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
What Ronnie Norman and other sowers of discord are doing are making musical religion which is clearly OUTLAWED for any Bible student a DOUBTFUL DISPUTATION. That is then a violation of a direct command. If he transfigures the DIET and MARKET preference days equivalent to an ACT OF WORSHIP he is saying that the kingdom DOES necessarily consist of making instrumental noisex.
They were not impure simply because they ate different foods and observed different days. We would not hesitate to preach to a Seventh Day Adventest because they are vegetarians and observe the seventh day. They were not to be excluded because their knowledge of THE FAITH was not strong: ALL were to be accepted as students of the Word (only). However, Paul silenced them from dialog or preaching because they were included in the group specificially to receive the Word of God and never the word of a human.
I HAVE BEEN ASKED TO REVIEW RONNIE NORMAN'S USE OF ROMANS 14 TO JUSTIFY IMPOSING MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS ON A NONE-INSTRUMENTAL CHURCH OF CHRIST. This is a quick review. This is one of abouth half a dozen of the churches of those who set out to restructure all of the churches of Christ: they got only their own out of over 13,000 congregations. Too bad, too sad.
You may click to see the time line to imposing instruments and the Shepherding Movement on First Colony Church of Christ.
AT ANOTHER LEVEL
People identified by diet in the marketplaces might ALSO engage in the religious worship of the Sect of Orphic or Pythagoreans who were vegetarians, or the Dionysus worshipers who ate any kind of meat and drank wine.
If they were participants in the WORSHIP of these sects they were not permitted to attend the assembly for the purpose of disputing or DISCUSSING their doubtful religion. The church would certainly not provide a PLACE for them to carry out their musical and therefore perveted worship.
Because their PREFERENCE was singing and playing instruments to disconnect themselves from the rational or spiritual world, no literate preacher or elder would allow any musical SECTARIAN to take over the assembly.
Does Ronnie Norman and the SHEPHERDING ELDERS invite those Paul excluded?The phythagorans: They had a large number of superstitious abstinences and dos and don'ts. They abstained from beans, did not break bread, did not eat from a whole loaf, and did not eat the heart (of their sacrifices). Example superstitions, such as not touching a white cock, not stepping over a crossbar, not stirring a fire with an iron, not plucking a garland etc. are too tedious to list here but can be seen in Burnet (ibid., p. 96).
There is no doubt this concept was entirely religious and selective. They also viewed music and astronomy as sister sciences. They used music to purge the soul and medicine to purge the body. Such methods of purifying the soul were familiar in the Orgia of the Korybantes and thus explains the Pythagorean interest in Harmonics (Burnet, pp. 97-98).
Of the Dionysius meat eaters and wine drinkers.
Instruments, especially flutes and drums, were used to induce ecstasy, or frenzy, in the worshippers of certain deities. The devotees of Thracian Dionysus (Bacchus) engaged in orgies at night. Members of the society were seized with a divine madness as they danced to the music and would seize an animal who was believed to be the incarnation of the god, tear the body limb from limb, and eat it on the spot. By this sacred communion they hoped to attain union with their god and themselves become Baccoi. There was a wave of Bacchic enthusiasm that swept Italy in 185 B.C. and created such a scandal that it was sternly repressed by the Roman senate." (Green, William M., The Church Fathers and Musical Instruments" unpublished paper, p. 32).
"Dionysus certainly roves more than the other gods; the traditional picture of him is not one of him sitting sedately on Olympus sipping nectar and listening to the Muses (9 females) sing.
Rather it is one of him roaming through the wilderness,thrysus (a shaken reed bound with ivy and topped with a pine con e [Phallus]) in hand,
followed by bands of ecstatic women, his Bacchants, and spreading the art of cultivation of vines and of wine-making. Other gods may leave Olympus, but it is not habitual with them as it is with dionysus.
"...this sect crowned the image of Jesus along with those of Pythagoras, Plato and Aristotle. Further, there were impostors of all varieties: magicians, soothsayers, jugglers, deceivers and hypocrites, 'who appeared using mighty words with a host of unintelligible formulae and taking up with scandalous ceremonies in order to rob men of their money." (Int. Std. Bible Ency., Gnosticism, p. 1246).
"Aristotle tells us that it is the task of the initiate to suffer and to let himself be brought to a certain frame of mind.
He is not to seek to acquire knowledge and increased understanding.
The significance of ecstasy in the mysteries strikingly characterized by this statement.
The precise aim of orgies in the mysteries was to induce such a heightening of consciousness in a man that he would be receptive to the god who came to be united with him.
Such a person was then an enthusiast. Music was the most important element used to induce this condition. .. Aristotle explains that among the modes the Phrygian has the same power as the flute among instruments, for both are orgiastic and both heighten consciousness. This peculiar capability, which brought on religious ecstasy.. For that reason everything written in the Phrygian mode was. (Quasten, p 36-37)
"But perhaps nothing was more characteristic of the mystery religions than what they called ecstasy. Believers in the mystery religions sought to cultivate a magical, sensuous communion with the divine. They would do almost anything to get themselves into a semiconscious, hallucinatory, hypnotic, or orgiastic spell in which they believed they were sensually in contact with deity.
Some used wine to assist in the euphoric experience, as Paul implied in Ephesians 5:18. Whether from literal intoxication or emotional exhilaration, when worshipers fell into a state of euphoria, it was as if they had been drugged. They assumed they were in contact with God. (MacArthur, John, Charismatic Chaos, p. 164. Zondervan)
WELL IT CERTAINLY SEEMS THAT THERE IS A WELL-LAID PLAN TO DO JUST THAT?
In Romans 15 Paul will outlawed SELF-pleasure and the REPROACHES always the PREFERENCE of the Market-Driven sects. The STRONG are those who reject the polluted Market-Driven center:
The Weak sects would want to "join" to seek and impose their own pleasure.Rom. 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak,
and not to please ourselves.
The Strong in the Ekklesia will please others for edification or education: the purpose of the church.
Rom. 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
Rom. 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
If Jesus had joined in with the Pipers by singing and dancing he would have pleased the PERVERTED CLERGY and the meaning is that they would strip Him naked and INITIATE him into the sexual pleasures of the Romans Dionysiacs. Do we REALLY have to be SHAMED for not "receiving them?"
Psa. 69:9 For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me
2781. Cherpah, kher-paw´; from 2778; contumely, disgrace, the pudenda:—rebuke, reproach(-fully), shame.
2778. Charaph, khaw-raf´; a primitive root; to pull off, i.e. (by implication) to expose (as by stripping); specifically, to betroth (as if a surrender); figuratively, to carp at, i.e. defame; denominative (from 2779) to spend the winter:--betroth, blaspheme, defy, jeopard, rail, reproach, upbraid.
Remember that you are victims of the Vineyard Mother and the New Wineskins MARK. The Vineyard lady who gave you the new style praise singing shows you how to musically induce a SEXUAL-LIKE CLIMAX.
"Dionysus is the wine-god, and thus should be a pleasant fellow, a benefactor. But wine has both positive and negative aspects. It makes people drunk, causes them to behave in strange ways. The Greeks were well aware of the dual natures of wine, mirrored by the dual nature of its god.... He betrays a dual nature: being bright, joyous, and vital for life,
while also having a side that is dark, mysterious and deadly.
"The adored wife of the fallen Hector, is taken as a concubine by the authentes, who can command her domestic and sexual services. The word also occurs in a homosexual sense in a speech by Theseus, king of Athens, where love of young boys was considered a virtue rather than a vice." (Charles Trombly, Who Said Women Can't Teach, p. 174)
Paul did not permit women to participate in religious rituals because this AUTHENTIA authority would be a certain sign that something wild was going on.
"dionysus's worship is thus established by the simple means of killing the opposition. It has been suggested that every tragic hero who suffers and dies on stage at the Dionysia, the great dramatic festival at Athens, is in fact dionysus himself, being killed."
In every Greek city the god Dionysus (New wineskin god) was worshipped by fraternities and sororities and also by mixed communities. Dionysus was a god of fruitfulness and vegetation but especially of wine. The Dionysiac festivals provided an opportunity for stepping outside of the daily routine. The festivals included not only drinking wine and engaging in sexual activity but also participating in such significant features of Greek civilization as choral singing and mimes. In many cases, only the initiated could participate in the ceremonies. As almost every Greek did join in, initiation into the Dionysiac cult might be compared to tribal initiations. It seems that initiation into the Dionysiac Mysteries was accompanied by initiation into sexual life. Britannica Members
NOW, FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE WORSHIP PRACTICES WHICH WE ARE TO REPUDIATE.
THEY WERE NOT TO EXCLUDE THEM FROM HEARING THE GOSPEL PREACHED
Based only on these "moral" practices the church must not consider anyone unclean or not to hear the WORD preached and "taught as it had been taught" as many had each Sabbath in the synagoges.. Such mega churches Ronnie promotes in fact declares the poor and homless impure and seeks to attrict the rich and powerful.
Acts 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house,DO NOT PARTICIPATE, DO NOT TOLERATE
and haling men and women committed them to prison.
Acts 8:4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad
went every where preaching the word.
Phil. 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God,THE RELIGIOUS PRACTICES OF ALL OF THE ROMAN SECTS WERE EXCLUDED
without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation,
among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
No, it is not judgmental NOT to let the crooked race participate.
Perverse: G1294 diastrepho dee-as-tref'-o From G1223 and G4762 ; to distort, that is, (figuratively) misinterpret, or (morally) corrupt: perverse (-rt), turn away.
The crooked generation FROM WHICH we are to save ourselves are specificially the perverted, musical rituals which make a Word-centered assembly impossible. ALL of the CROOKED religion was in praise of Apollo who is Apollyon who uses the Muses or dirty adulteresses John identified in Revelation 18:22-23 as SORCERS.
-Skolios 1 curved, winding, twisted, tangled, bent sideways, : metaph. crooked, i. e. unjust, unrighteous , Il., Hes., etc.; skolia prattein, eipein Plat.:--so adv. skoliôs, Hes.INSTEAD OF A PAGAN MUSICAL RITUAL PAUL ALWAYS DEFINES THE SOLE PURPOSE OF THE CHURCH.
Prattein, -Prassô II. experience certain fortunes, achieved bondage, i.e. brought it on himself, grant power of song, get something, plot, 3. of sexual intercourse, b. esp. of secret practices and intrigues
Charis for his pleasure , for his sake, glôssês charin for one's tongue's pleasure, hy pleasure or sake, for the sake of my flesh, for the pleasure of devouring it, prassein, 4. love-charm, philtre, charizesthai (1.2), indulge, humour, orgêi,
Charizomai charizô in erotic sense, grant favours to a man,
Phil. 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; [The ONLY role]The CROOKED and PERVERSE INTEND TO SILENCE THE WORD OF GOD WITH MUSIC.
that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain,
neither laboured in vain.
They can neither be accepted for membership nor allowed to steal your church. This crooked musical worship is the MARK of Apollyon in Revelation who uses the Locusts (Muses) as dirty adulteresses to perform SORCERY on you. They have taken you captive.
G4646 skolios skol-ee-os' From the base of G4628 ; warped, that is, winding; figuratively perverse:—crooked, froward, untoward.Beyond what Paul clearly defines, the religious practices of NONE of the three sects would be tolerated in the ekklesia or church. Those RELIGIOUS practices are included by the further definition of WEAK and included by Ronnie Norman even when Jesus consigned them back to the marketplace
G5157 tropē trop-ay' From an apparently primary word τρέπω trepō (to turn); a turn (“trope”), that is, revolution (figuratively variation):--turning
-Tropos , ho, ( [trepô] ) turn, direction, way, IV. in Music, like harmonia, a particular mode,
Pindar, Olympian 14  that is done in heaven; with their thrones set beside Pythian Apollo of the golden bow, they worship the everlasting honor of the Olympian father.  Lady Aglaia, and Euphrosyne, lover of dance and song, daughters of the strongest god,  listen now; and you, Thalia, passionate for dance and song, having looked with favor on this victory [Nike] procession, stepping lightly in honor of gracious fortune. For I have come to sing of Asopichus in Lydian melodies and chosen phrases, because the Minyan land is victorious at Olympia,
-Aristotle, Poetics 1447b
There are certain arts which employ all the means which I have mentioned, such as rhythm and tune and metre--dithyrambic and "nomic" poetry, for example, and tragedy too and comedy. The difference here is that some use all these at once, others use now one now another. These differences then in the various arts I call the means of representation.
The traditional definition is that the Dithyramb was sung to a flute accompaniment by a chorus in honor of Dionysus; and that the Nomos [legalism] was a solo sung to a harp accompaniment in honor of Apollo,
These doubtful disputations meaning derived from personal opinion or preferences were outlawed in the ekklesia defined inclusively and exclusively in Romans 15. In the Apostolic Constitutions written by The Church of Christ c. 200, singers, instrument players, perverts or Sodomites were EXCLUDED from the church until they had "brought forth fruits of repentance."
PREFERENCES ABSOLUTLY OUTLAWED BY THE EXAMPLE OF JESUS, THE COMMANDS OF PAUL AND MINIMAL COMMON DECENCY.
The Agora or Marketplace where Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and dancers was down on the lower level in Athens. This is the ONLY place where diet preferences could be visible: This is where all of the singers, rhetoricians selling speeches or sowing discord, instrument players and the ALWAYS musical of perverted sectarians could be found: a red-light district where you went IF you were still a slave. ONLY SLAVES, PROSTITUTES OR SODOMITES PERFORMED RELIGIOUS MUSIC.
While free citizens learned music as part of warfare, only the lower classes were permitted to perform music and this would rarely be in civil society.
Only citizens were allowed to participate in the ekklesia or the weekly assembly for verbal instruction only. Slaves used the "psallo" rope polluted with red paint to MARK those who dallied around the singers, instrument players and sellers of bodies, were driven and MARKED so that when forced into the ekklesia they were polluted and NOT allowed to participate.
Only FREE CITIZENS were permitted to be elders or deacons in the local civil ekklesia. In the church they were not permitted to bring their old PREFERENCES into the body of Christ NOR were they permitted to allow false teachers or elders turned wolves (marked by music and perversion) to participate.
NO ONE WAS ALLOWED TO PRACTICES THESE PREFERENCES AS PART OF THEIR CHRISTIAN WITNESS.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son,
then an heir of God through Christ.
Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God,
ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God,
how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements,
whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE IS TRYING TO TURN THE WHOLE CHURCH BACK UNDER SLAVERY: THE SHEPHERDING ELDER CONCEPT.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Gal 4:12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.
Lucifer called the "singing and harp playing prostitute" intended to bleed off worship from God and His Word and receive the worship for him/her/itself.
Pindar, Odes 4: Aphrodite [ZOE] of Cyprus brought the maddening bird to men for the first time, and she taught the son of Aeson skill in prayerful incantations, so that he could rob Medea of reverence for her parents, and a longing for Greece would lash her, her mind on fire, with the whip of Persuasion.  And she quickly revealed the means of performing the labors set by her father; and she mixed drugs with olive oil as a remedy for hard pains, and gave it to him to anoint himself. They agreed to be united with each other in sweet wedlock
Epôidê , Ion. and poet. epaoidê ,A. song sung to or over: hence, enchantment, spell Od.19.457 Pi.P.4.217 ou pros iatrou sophou thrênein epôidas pros tomônti pêmati S.Aj. 582 ; of the Magi, Hdt.1.132,
All recorded history notes the conflict between MUSIC and the SPOKEN WORD.
Plato Symposium 215c
"You are a fleering fellow, eh? If you will not confess it, I have witnesses at hand. Are you not a PIPER?
Why, yes, and a far more marvellous one than the satyr. His lips indeed had power to ENTRANCE mankind by means of instruments; a thing still possible today for anyone who can PIPE his tunes: or the music of Olympus' flute belonged, I may tell you, to Marsyas his teacher. "So that if anyone, whether a fine flute-player or paltry flute-girl, can but flute his tunes, they have no equal for exciting a RAVISHMENT, and will indicate (prophesy) by the divinity that is in them who are apt recipients of the deities and their sanctifications.
You differ from him in one point only--that you produce the same effect with simple prose unaided by instruments.
THE MEANING OF WEAK IN RELIGIOUS PRACTICES THEY WANT TO IMPOSE ON YOU.
The kingdom of God does not involve what we eat in the marketplaces; it does not allow the practices of the marketplaces to go to the ekklesia which was for verbal instruction only. Therefore, we are to receive them in the church defined INCLUSIVELY in Romans 15 but no one speaks about diet because the ekklesia is a school of the Bible. No one is allowed to do doubtful disputations because we all "speak that which is written" and to create unity we sing with one MIND and one MOUTH.
When Jesus said that what goes OUT of our mouth defiles us, He was speaking of the Scribes and Pharisees whom He called hypocrites. In both Isaiah 29 and Ezekiel 33 the hypocrites which defiled were speakers, singers and instrument players.
Those weak in THE FAITH would be those most likely to want to puff as rhetoricians, singers or musicians. It doesn't even matter if they are pretty bad people because in the Restoration Movement the Campbells understood that church is "A school of Christ" and worship is "reading and musing the Word of God." This will allow the really bad WEAK people to develop to their fullest potential.
Rom. 14:1 Him that is weak in THE FAITH receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations
Because faith comes by hearing the Word of God, one could not be STRONG and think that THE FAITH included the use of instrumental music. THE FAITH in fact radicially consignes the pipers, singers and dancers to the marketplace with all of the other pollutants and where members would see each other at the food markets: this is NOT in the assembly.
The Weak according to Ronnie Norman are sensitive to scrupples and narrow. They should not be mean and prevent the INSTRUMENTALISTS with well laid plans to create the SELF-pleasure Paul outlawed by outlawing the WEAK in Romans 14 and in Romans 15 before the ekklesia and possibly be carried out.
However, all of the Bible, literature and medical science identifies the addiction to musical sounds as a moral weakness and effectively a DRUG ADDICTION. Those strong in THE FAITH and in their own faith would never be found trying to "lust their way into the presence of God" using music as a legalistic substitute for the loss of faith.
IT IS A FACT THAT SINGING, PLAYING, EATING MEATS, SELLING BODIES AND ALL COMMERCE WAS QUARANTINED TO THE AGORA OR MARKETPLACE.
DO YOU REALLY HAVE TO PROVIDE A VENUE SO THAT THE MORALLY WEAK CAN PERFORM?
770. GREEK: astheneo, as-then-eh´-o; from 772 [figurative and moral]; to be feeble (in any sense): be diseased, impotent folk (man), (be) sick, (be, be made) weak. asthen-eia in moral sense, feebleness, weakness
WEAK: Latin In-firmus, Weak in mind or character, superstitious, pusillanimous, inconstant, light-minded: very uncertain, not to be depended on, Of things, of no weight or consequence, weak, trivial, inconclusive
How can you depend on people who plan to try to force you to do something you know is polluting and which offends your well-trained conscience?
Or does Ronnie Norman say that your congregational singing is because YOU are weak-minded, pusillanimous and superstitious?
Do you want to feed Ronnie Norman to tell you that you are weak minded not to use "machines for doing hard work" and denying Grace? Speaking is the OPPOSITE of music and you will notice the meaning of the WEAK.
DO YOU REALLY HAVE TO PROVIDE A VENUE FOR PERVERTED PLEASURE?
WEAK: Delicate is Malakos path-êtikos d. = pathêtikos e. of music, soft, effeminate, harmoniai, of reasoning, weak, loose, logos Isoc.12.4, sullogizesthai to reason loosely,
Mousikos II. of persons, skilled in music, musical, III. of things, elegant, delicate; professional musicians, mousikos kai melôn poêtês, hêdion ouden, harmonious [in tune], fitting, trophêMusic means Pathêtikos: even the Roman Government outlawed practices Ronnie Norman is promoting.WEAK: Delicate or Malakos in Isocrates, Speeches 12 makes the same association with
1Cor. 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
1Cor. 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor
effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Cor. 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Arnobius defining heresies:
41. Was it for this He sent souls, that they which shortly before had been gentleand ignorant of what it is to be moved by fierce passions,
should build for themselves markets and amphi-theatres, places of blood and open wickedness, in the one of which they should see men devoured and torn in pieces by wild beasts, and themselves slay others for no demerit but to please and gratify the spectators, [voluptatemque] and should spend those very days on which such wicked deeds were done in general enjoyment,
and keep holiday with festive gaiety; while in the other, again, they should tear asunder the flesh of wretched animals, some snatch one part, others another, as dogs and vultures do, should grind them with their teeth, and give to their utterly insatiable maw, and that, surrounded by faces so fierce and savage, those should bewail their lot whom the straits of poverty withheld from such repasts; that their life should be happy and prosperous while such barbarous doings defiled their mouths and face?
Was it for this He sent souls, that, forgetting their importance and dignity as divine, they should acquire gems, precious stones, pearls, at the expense of their purity; should entwine their necks with these, pierce the tips of their ears, bind their foreheads with fillets, seek for cosmetics to deck their bodies, darken their eyes with henna ; nor, though in the forms of men, blush to curl their hair with crisping-pins, to make the skin of the body smooth, to walk with bare knees, and with every other kind of wantonness,Music means Hêdonê desires after pleasure, pleasant lusts, Ep.Tit.3.3, al. dêmêgorein [A demagogue uses the performing arts to appease the masses for profit]
both to lay aside the strength of their manhood,
and to grow in effeminacy to a woman's habits and luxury?
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. Tit 3:3
This is the SELF-pleasure Paul outlawed for the assembly:
Aresko (g700) ar-es'-ko; prob. from 142 (through the idea of exciting emotion); to be agreeable (or by impl. to seek to be so): - please. the STAFF borne by pornoboskoi [brothel keeper] on the stage
Exairô -lift up, lift off the earth 2. raise in dignity, exalt, magnify, exaggerate it. Rhetoric, treat in elevated style, of music
3. arouse, stir up excites thy wish to die, pervert, make away with, get rid of, to be excited, agitated. Includes: Choreia [choreuô] a dance, esp. the choral or round dance with its music.Music MARKS the effeminate
"Now, many a man from the false religions, which are not ashamed of criticising what is noble, will ask: how can there be a feast without carousing and overeating, without the pleasant company of hosts and guests, without quantities of unmixed wine, without richly set tables and highly stacked provisions of everything that pertains to a banquet, without pageantry and jokes,
bantering and merry-making to the accompaniment of flutes and citharas, the sound of drums and cymbals and other effeminate and frivolous music of every king,
enkindling unbridled lusts with the help of the sense of hearing. For in and through the same [pleasures] those persons openly seek their joy, for what true joy is their they do not know.
rhetoricians: Now, however, I have completely given up these devices of rhetoric. For I do not think it is becoming to the ninety-four years which I have lived
How you, men of Athens, have been affected by my accusers, I do not know; but I, for my part, almost forgot my own identity, so persuasively did they talk; and yet there is hardly a word of truth in what they have said. But I was most amazed by one of the many lies that they told--when they said that you must be on your guard not to be deceived by me.ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT USE MACHINES SUPERSTITIOUS?
WEAK: Aristotle on Politics (1339a)DO YOU REALLY HAVE TO PROVIDE A VENUE FOR SUPERSTITIOUS MUSIC?
1. for amusement and relaxation, as one indulges in sleep and deep drinking (for these in themselves are not serious pursuits but merely pleasant, and 'relax our care,' as Euripides says;[1339b] "And we may consider the conception that we have about the gods:
owing to which people actually class music with them and (sleep and deep drinking) employ all of these things,
..........sleep, deep drinking and music, in the same way,
......... and they also place dancing in the same class); (Aristotle isn't kind)
Zeus does not sing and harp to the poets himself.
But professional musicians we speak of as vulgar people, and indeed
we think it not manly to perform music, except when drunk or for fun.
Britannica: "Music, like the word, also may have symbolic meaning. The basic elements out of which musical symbolism is built are sounds, tones, melodies, harmonies,
and the various musical instruments,
........among which is the human voice.
Sound effects can have a numinous (spiritual) character and
may be used to bring about contact with the realm of the holy.
A specific tone may call one to an awareness of the holy, make the holy present, and produce an experience of the holy. This may be done by means of drums, gongs, bells, or other instruments.
The ritual instruments can, through their shape or the materials from which they are made, have symbolic meaning. The Uitoto in Colombia, for example, believe that all the souls of their ancestors are contained in the ritual drums. (See liturgical music.)
Lucian of Samosata speaks for everyone in proving that music is a superstitious ritual for the ignorant.
"Alexander, on the other hand, preferred his native place, urging very truly that an enterprise like theirs required congenial soil to give it a start,DO YOU HAVE TO DESTROY THE PEACE AND DESTROY THE EDIFICATION-EDUCATION?
in the shape of 'fat-heads' and simpletons; that was a fair description, he said, of the Paphlagonians beyond Abonutichus; they were mostly superstitious and well-to-do; one had only to go there with someone to playflute, the tambourine, or the cymbals, set the proverbial mantic sieve a-spinning, and there they would all be gaping the as if he were a god from heaven.
Rom. 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom. 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
1515. eirene, i-ray´-nay; peace (literally or figuratively); by implication, prosperity: one, peace, quietness, rest, + set at one again.
How can you even hallucinate that you are making PEACE when you are deliberately SOWING DISCORD, driving away the owners and creating a CONFLICTING SECTARIAN DIVISION within the same body.
DO YOU REALLY HAVE TO PROVIDE A VENUE TO REPUDIATE THE PLANS OF JESUS?
MUSIC DOES NOT EDIFY BUT CREATES THE SPIRITUAL ANXIETY JESUS DIED TO REMOVE.
1Cor. 14:3 But he that prophesieth
speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Cor. 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church
Paul compared percussion and wind instruments to SPEAKING IN TONGES.
The word SPEAK is both inclusive and exclusive.
loquor , whisper; to speak, talk, say (in the language of common life, in the tone of conversation;
(b).: ad aedificationem Ecclesiae, Vulg. 1 Cor. 14, 12 ; ib. Eph. 4, 12.Aedificationem Ecclesiae,
To Edify in the ASSEMBLY you must speak "that which is written" with one MIND and one MOUTH where the word Speak is:
Logik-os, [logos] A. of or for speaking or speech, merê logikê, hê, speech, opposite to mousikê or phantasia expressed in speech,
Again, the EXCLUDED music is perverted and perverting and never edifying or educating.Mousikos II. of persons, skilled in music, musical, III. of things, elegant, delicate, brômata Diox.1; professional musicians, mousikos kai melôn poêtês, hêdion ouden, oude -ôteron Philem.23 ; harmonious [in tune], fitting, trophê Delicate Malakos path-êtikos d. = pathêtikos e. of music, soft, effeminate, m. harmoniai, g. of reasoning, weak, loose, logos Isoc.12.4 , sullogizesthai to reason loosely,
Again, Philodemus held as self deceptive the view that music mediated religious ecstasy. He saw the entire condition induced by the noise of cymbals and tambourines as a disturbance of the spirit. He found it significant that, on the whole, only women and effeminate men fell into this folly.
Accordingly, nothing of value could be attributed to music; it was no more than a slave of the sensation of pleasure, which satisfied much in the same way that food and drink did. Johannes Quasten. In Music and Worship in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, beginning on page 41
1Cor. 14:3 But he that prophesieth [TEACHES]
speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Cor. 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;
but he that prophesieth edifieth the church
God did not give any singers or instrument players: they cannot edify. The church has no ROLE to perform "worship" rituals for which you can HAVE a preference.
EDIFICATION is restricted to speaking only
1Cor. 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
Eph. 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some,
evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph. 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry,
for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph. 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith,
and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man,
unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
How can you learn about Jesus Christ by giving heed (the sole worship word) to musical performers Jesus identified as hypocrites?
Ecclesia ( ecclesia)an assembly of the (Greek) people. I. Prop.: et ecclesia consentiente, senate and people, in the free cities of Greece:
This is opposite the MARKETPLACE where you eat what you wish without judgment.
Gregory Nanzianzen in Oration XXXI
But if these things are true, they ought not to be called myths, but to be proved not to be shameful; and if they are false, they ought not to be objects of wonder; nor ought people so inconsiderately to hold the most contrary opinions about the same thing,as if they were playing in the market-place with boys or really ill-disposed men,IS EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID ABOUT RHETORICIANS, MUSIC AND PERVERTS A LIE?
not engaged in discussion with men of sense, and worshippers of the Word,
though despisers of this artificial plausibility.
Luke 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the MEN of this generation?
and to what are they like?
Luke 7:32 They are like unto CHILDREN [boys] sitting in the marketplace,
and calling one to another, and saying,
We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced;
we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
Rom. 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written,
The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
Psa. 69:9 For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up;
and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me
2781. cherpah, kher-paw�; from 2778; contumely, disgrace, the pudenda: rebuke, reproach(-fully), shame.Psa. 69:11 I made sackcloth also my garment; and I became a proverb to them.
2778. Charaph, khaw-raf; a primitive root; to pull off, i.e. (by implication) to expose (as by stripping); specifically, to betroth (as if a surrender); figuratively, to carp at, i.e. defame; denominative (from 2779) to spend the winter:--betroth, blaspheme, defy, jeopard, rail, reproach, upbraid.
Psa. 69:12 They that sit in the gate speak against me;
and I was the song of the drunkards.
5058. Ngiynah, neg-ee-naw´; ngiynath (Psa. 61: title), neg-ee-nath´; from 5059; properly, instrumental music; by implication, a stringed instrument; by extension, a poem set to music; specifically, an epigram: stringed instrument, musick, Neginoth (plural), songDO YOU REALLY HAVE TO FINANCE AND TOLERATE THESE PEOPLE?
5060. naga, to touch, i.e. lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphem., to lie with a woman)
Spoiled Pets in the Ekklesia?
2 Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
And PAY them too: that defines a PARASITE.Truphaô 2.revel in, LXXSi.14.4 ; delight in, .Ne.9.25. [Nehemiah called the kings-priests parasites]
A. live softly, luxuriously, fare sumptuously, of a child, leukos . Ep.Jac.5.5, Gal.6.416, etc.; paison, truphêson, zêson
paison paizô [pais] 4. to play (on an instrument), to sport, play, jest, joke, to make sport of one, mock him,
III. give oneself airs, be dainty, fastidious, connected to the Polus, Spoiled pets: en tais ekklêsiais t. kai kolakeuesthai, of the people,
Charizô 2. gratify or indulge a humour or passion, 3. in erotic sense, grant favours to a man,NO! Let them listen and learn. DO NOT let them TAKE OVER your Worship IN the Spirit as Paul warned because the DOGS are howling musically trying to get in to get some sheep's flesh.
The elders turned wolves in Acts 20 are those who let the perverted in to seduce and eat up the lambs.
(ll. 1-5) I prithee, clear-voiced Muse, daughter of mighty Zeus, sing of the mother of all gods and men. She is well-pleased with the sound of rattles and of timbrels, with the voice of flutes and the outcry of WOLVES and bright-eyed LIONS, with echoing hills and wooded coombes.
"Music and Mantras, therefore, were used by the Orphics
to attract, or call down, the influence of the Mother of the Gods,
THE END-TIME MOTHER OF HARLOTS
Rev. 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev. 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev. 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev. 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
THE UNIVERSAL MARK OF THE LUSTED AFTER FRUITS
Rev. 18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
HOW TO IDENTIFY WHEN SOME WOMAN HAS TAKEN OVERRev. 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians [locusts-Muses], and of pipers,
and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee;
and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be,
shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone [sound locates the prostitutes]
shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev. 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee;
and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee:
for thy merchants were the great men of the earth;
for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev. 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints,
and of all that were slain upon the earth.
YOU MAY INVITE THEM IN BUT GOD WILL BURN THEM OUT AND IN REVELATION 19 THERE IS REJOICING.
And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the Lord unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more. Amos 8:2
Keluwb (h3619) kel-oob'; from the same as 3611; a bird-trap (as furnished with a clap-stick or treadle to spring it); hence a basket (as resembling a wicker cage): - basket, cage.
As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. Je.5:27
Keleb (h3611) keh'leb; from an unused root mean. to yelp, or else to attack; a dog; hence (by euphemism) a male prostitute: - dog.
For dogs have compassed me: the assembly [multitude, swarm] of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. Ps.22:16
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. Is.56:11
And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the Lord: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy. Je.15:3
Therefore I would have you bring no shame upon me, now when your youthful loveliness attracts men's gaze. The tender ripeness of summer fruit is in no way easy to protect; beasts despoil it--and men, why not?--  and brutes that fly and those that walk the earth. Love's goddess spreads news abroad of fruit bursting ripe. . . . So all men, as they pass,  mastered by desire, shoot an alluring arrow of the eye at the delicate beauty of virgins. See to it, therefore, that we do not suffer that in fear for which we have endured great toil and ploughed the great waters with our ship; and that we bring no shame to ourselves and exultation to our enemies. Housing of two kinds is at our disposition,  the one Pelasgus offers, the other, the city, and to occupy free of cost. These terms are easy. Only pay heed to these behests of your father, and count your chastity more precious than your life.I will not again pass by them any more. Amos 8:2Defining the WOLVES:
Peace, profane men! Let the basket-bearer come forward, and thou Xanthias, hold the phallus well upright.
Xanthias, walk behind the basket-bearer and hold the phallus well erect; I will follow, singing the Phallic hymn; thou, wife, look on from the top of the terrace. Forward!Oh, Phales, [god of generation, worshipped in the form of a phallus] companion of the orgies of Bacchus, night reveller, god of adultery, friend of young men, these past six years I have not been able to invoke thee.
Here is a man truly happy. See how everything succeeds to his wish. Peacefully seated in his market, he will earn his living; ....without being accosted on the public place by any importunate fellow,
neither by Cratinus, shaven in the fashion of the debauchees, nor by this musician, who plagues us with his silly improvisations, Artemo, with his arm-pits stinking as foul as a goat, like his father before him. You will not be the butt of the villainous Pauson's jeers, nor of Lysistratus, the disgrace of the Cholargian deme, who is the incarnation of all the vices, and endures cold and hunger more than thirty days in the month.
A BOEOTIAN By Heracles! my shoulder is quite black and blue. Ismenias, put the penny-royal down there very gently, and all of you, musicians from Thebes, pipe with your bone flutes