Laughing Revival, Irenaeus: Against Heresies

Prophesying women in worship, laughing revival, speaking in tongues and musical worship teams are promoted as tools of evangelism. Corinth is the approved example. However, Paul understood the pagan views of a budding gnosticism and denounced any form of out of your mind madness as proof of moving into the presence of God. The "Big Lie" was simple -- tell the biggest, most outrageous lie; tell it often enough; tell it loudly enough -- and eventually people will believe it. Joseph Paul Goebbels just repeating Adolph Hitler

"Order for some is control. [Some say,] 'The meeting is out of order,' meaning, 'I cannot control the meeting anymore. I'm not the head honcho in this service anymore. Someone bigger than me has come into the service and caused a disruption,

taken away the attention from me, and I don't like it and I want order back in the service so that people will look at me rather than what God is doing.'

"I remember one service where I just went and sat down for an hour and a half. I just went and sat down. Well, there was nothing else I could do. Total pandemonium - people falling off of their chairs, people crying, people laughing and some were wailing - some were shaking. So, I just said to the people, I said, 'Look, just come up when you're ready and lift your hands and God will touch you.' I was sitting on the platform - just sat there and watched them for about an hour and a half. People came right up, got to the front, lifted their hands - BAM! - on the floor. I just sat there. I didn't even pray. You say, 'What'd you do?' I just sat there and twiddled my thumbs. I thought, 'Lord, I wish every meeting was as easy as this.' Now I had preached the word already and taught the word of God, and then I went and sat down. And they came walking up, got to the front, lifted their hands - BAM! - under the power of God"(11)

What has happened is that, like Pavlov's dogs, the "audience" has been taken over by an evil spirit. When they see the "person" who is supposed to lead them into laughing, they just lift their hands - BAM!

Power breeds corruption and nothing is more corrupting than a little dose of worldly success. The power to see "godliness as a means of financial gain" is perhaps the most corrupting. Popularity and the applause of men has led faithful men to claim for their books and methods the same place the Holy Spirit claims for the Words of Christ.

Music, prophesying and speaking in tongues in Corinth can be understood by knowing a little bit of what always happened in the ancient world when charismatic men found that they could make "tag alongs" of women and some men by inducing them to speak in tongues or prophesying where prophesying was often singing their own revelation and using musical instruments to give their words more power.

People do not naturally fall into speaking gibberish or laughing out of control unless they have been hypnotized by a mind manipulater (call him preacher) who holds expensive meetings to slowly introduce you into bodily (carnal) acts which can be interpreted as spiritual and give the manipulator power over you. It has been noted that this is a real "love affair" so that you wander from sea to sea just to hear them make pronouncements and gain more power. It has also been true that when you "fall out" with the preacher-soothsayer you loose the power.

Jubilee 98, for instance, estimated spending 1/4 of a million dollars to call the wanderers into assembly. Musical worship teams, instrumental music, lifting holy hands and laying on of hands were introduced with a vengeance. Ordinarily the 1500 people assembled would feel no impulse to "lift holy hands" at anything Mike Cope said or the musical worship team sang. Therefore, Mike introduced the people to lifting holy hands (overhead as in effeminate-not feminine). Most were coerced by the example of the manipulator and were subconsciously threatened with embarasssment if they did not lift up and lay on hands. Of course, the promise was that next time it will be easier. But we ask why? Isn't this ceremonial legalism trying to disfellowship those who disagree and build a new system leading to charismatic breakdowns? What if - and it will happen - someone begins to speak in tongues while all of the mind-altering tools are at work (weapons are instruments)? Won't this give the manipulator more power for the next convocation?

To their credit, most church members come out of a higher educated group and don't easily get suckered into having their minds bent out of shape.

Others just get sick at their stomachs and refuse to be manipulated. Click Here for the review of a young Christian looking for meat.

Irenaeus, and most early writers, show how this mind manipulation is done and undoubtedly was being done in Corinth where Paul condemned "out of assembly" prophesying and outlawed it in the assembly (1 Cor 11:14f). These manipulators in Corinth and later always believed that they had improved upon the master. Songs and sermons always prove it!

Irenaeus: Against Heresies (120-203 AD)


I. But there is another among these heretics, Marcus by name, who boasts himself as having improved upon his master. He is a perfect adept in magical impostures, and by this means drawing away a great number of men, and not a few women, he has induced them to join themselves to him, as to one who is possessed of the greatest knowledge and perfection, and who has received the highest power from the invisible and ineffable regions above. Thus it appears

as if he really were the precursor of Antichrist. For, joining

the buffooneries of Anaxilaus
to the
craftiness of the magi, as they are called, he is regarded by his senseless and cracked-brain followers as working miracles by these means.

(Note: Paul spoke of buffoneries in Ephesians 4 before he demanded internal melody as they spoke the Words of Christ or "Spirit" to one another.)

Joseph Campbell says that terms like "wine" or "wineskins" are affect images or secret change-agent words which have, among the simple-minded, the power of actual wine. Wine is dead but is still the image of exhilarating worship rituals. Long speeches and extended meetings have the same power to alter consciousness.)

Theatrical performances are also events that can be used to secure blessings and happiness; the element of recreation is indissolubly blended with edification and spiritual elevation. The structure and character of drama ... reveals its origin and function:

it developed from the last part of a magico-religious ceremony, which survives as a ritual introduction, and begins and closes with benedictions. Drama is produced for festive occasions with a view to spiritual and religious success (siddhi),

which must also be prompted by appropriate behaviour from the spectators; there must be a happy ending; the themes are borrowed from epic and legendary history; the development and unraveling of the plot are retarded; and the envy of malign influences is averted by the almost obligatory buffoon (jokes soffen them up just like music)

2. Pretending (4) to consecrate cups mixed with wine, and

protracting to great length the word of invocation,
he contrives to give them a purple and reddish colour (new wine)

so that Charis (Note: code word for grace only and Charismatic meaning perverted), (5) who is one of those that are superior to all things,

should be thought to drop her own blood into that cup through means of his invocation, and that thus those who are present should be led to rejoice to taste of that cup, in order that, by so doing,

the Charis, who is set forth by this magician, may also flow into them.

Again, handing mixed cups to the women, he bids them consecrate these in his presence. When this has been done, he himself produces another cup of much larger size than that which the deluded woman has consecrated,) and pouring from the smaller one consecrated by the woman into that which has been brought forward by himself, he at the same time pronounces these words:

"May that Chaffs who is before all things, and who transcends all knowledge and speech, fill thine inner man, and multiply in thee her own knowledge, by sowing the grain of mustard seed in thee as in good soil."

(Note: The mind manipulators takes the old wine of the gospel and kingdom, which Jesus never allowed to ferment, and using hot air, blow it up so that the old wineskin will no longer hold it.

The new wine must be consecrated by his women disciples because real men won't do it.

See the magic? Our new paradigm is so much greater than the old pattern of our lost, decadent and destructive churches that we must have a new wineskin to hold the new wine expanded by our magic. Some teams "plow the ground" so that the seed of Christ will sprout!"

Eliphaz said that what happens at Jubilee 98 and celebrative, seeker forms of preaching and music actually prevents "the worshipers from coming into the presence of God." This does not keep the new wineskins called The Family of God from directly violating the wisdom of Eliphaz to do what Ireneaus condemned:

Should a wise man utter (scholars singing together responsively) vain (angry, grieved) knowledge (ignorance), and fill his belly (hollow self) with the east (to project self as in halal) wind? Job 15:2 (The "east" or "from old" is the spirit of Babylon)

Should he reason with unprofitable (not ministering) talk? or with speeches (self-composed discourses) wherewith he can do no good? Job 15:3

Yea, thou castest (frustrate) off fear (reverence) , and restrainest (other's) prayer before (presence of) God. Job 15:4

For thy mouth uttereth (is associated with) thine iniquity, and thou choosest the tongue of the crafty (smooth tongued and cunning). Job 15:5

The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity. Mal.2:6)

Repeating certain other like words, and

thus goading on the wretched woman [to madness],
he then appears a worker of wonders when the large cup is seen to have been filled out of the small one,
so as even to overflow by what has been obtained from it. By accomplishing several other similar things,
he has completely
deceived many, and drawn them away after him.

We might allegorize him to agree with the Scripture that they claim to take the "tiny" resouce of and transform it into a "bigger and more powerfult" song, sermon or instrumental performance to completely deceive many and draw them away after him.

3. It appears probable enough that this man possesses a demon as his familiar spirit, by means of whom he seems able to prophesy, and also

enables as many as he counts worthy to be partakers of his Charis themselves to prophesy.

He devotes himself especially to women, and those such as are well-bred, and elegantly attired, and of great wealth,
........... whom he frequently seeks to draw after him,
........... by addressing them in such seductive words as these:

"I am eager to make thee a partaker of my Charis(ma), since the Father of all doth continually behold thy angel before His face.
........... Now the place of thy angel is among us: (7) it behoves us to become one.

Receive first from me and by me [the gift of] Chaffs. Adorn thyself as a bride who is expecting her bridegroom, that thou mayest be what I am, and I what thou art. Establish the germ of light in thy nuptial chamber.

Receive from me a spouse, and become receptive of him, while thou art received by him.
Charis has descended upon thee;
open thy mouth and prophesy." (sing their own songs, dance and play)

On the woman replying," I have never at any time prophesied, nor do I know how to prophesy;"

then engaging, for the second time, in certain invocations, so as to astound his deluded victim, he says to her,"

Open thy mouth, speak whatsoever occurs to thee, and thou shalt prophesy.

"She then, vainly puffed up and elated by these words, and greatly excited in soul by the expectation that it is herself who is to prophesy,

her heart beating violently [from emotion], reaches the requisite pitch of audacity,

and idly as well as impudently utters some nonsense as it happens to occur to her, such as might be expected from one heated by an empty spirit. (Referring to this, one superior to me has observed, that the soul is both audacious and impudent when heated with empty air.)

Henceforth she reckons herself a prophetess, and expresses her thanks to Marcus for having imparted to her of his own Chaffs.

She then makes the effort to reward him, not only by the gift of her possessions (in which way he has collected a very large fortune),

but also by yielding up to him her person, desiring in every way to be united to him, that she may become altogether one with him.

(Note: Of the Worship Faciliation Minister: Facilitation meaning 2. Psychologically increased ease of performance of any action resulting from the lessening of nerve resistance by the continued successive application of the necessary stimulation." (Webster).

4. But already some of the most faithful women, possessed of the fear of God, and

not being deceived (whom, nevertheless, he did his best to seduce like the rest by bidding them prophesy),
........... abhorring and execrating him, have withdrawn from such a
........... vile company of revellers.

This they have done, as being well aware that

the gift of prophecy is not conferred on men by Marcus, the magician, but that only those to whom God sends His grace from above possess the divinely-bestowed power of prophesying; and

then they speak where and when God pleases, and not when Marcus orders them to do so.

For that which commands is greater and of higher authority than that which is commanded, inasmuch as the former rules, while the latter is in a state of subjection.

Note: "the writer of comedy, expressing his dissatisfaction with the common usages, tries to expose the impious arrogance of the pravailing error in the drama of the Priestess, sagely declaring:

'If a man drags the Deity
Whither he will by the sound of cymbals,
He that does this is greater than the Deity;

But these are the instruments of audacity and means of living Invented by men. (Tertullian, Exhortation to the Heathen, Ante-Nicene, II, p. 193).

If, then, Marcus, or any one else, does command,--as these are accustomed continually at their feasts to play at drawing lots, and [in accordance with the lot]

to command one another to prophesy,

giving forth as oracles what is in harmony with their own desires,--
it will follow that he who commands is
greater and of higher authority than the prophetic spirit, though he is but a man, which is impossible.

But such spirits as are commanded by these men, and speak when they desire it, are earthly and weak, audacious and impudent, sent forth by Satan for the seduction and perdition of those who do not hold fast that well- compacted faith which they received at first through the Church.

5. Moreover, that this Marcus compounds philters (charm to arouse sexual love as in Asherah poles) and love-potions,

in order to insult the persons of some of these women, if not of all, those of them who have returned to the Church of God--a thing which frequently occurs--have acknowledged, confessing, too, that they have been defiled by him,
........... and that they were filled with a burning passion towards him.

A sad example of this occurred in the case of a certain Asiatic, one of our deacons, who had received him (Marcus) into his house.

His wife, a woman of remarkable beauty, fell a victim both in mind and body to this magician, and, for a long time,
........... travelled about with him.

At last, when, with no small difficulty, the brethren had converted her, she spent her whole time in the exercise of public confession, (1) weeping over and lamenting the defilement which she had received from this magician.

6. Some of his disciples, too, addicting themselves (2) to the same practices, have deceived many silly women, and defiled them. They proclaim themselves as being "perfect,"

so that no one can be compared to them with respect to the immensity of their knowledge, nor even were you to mention Paul or Peter, or any other of the apostles.

They assert that they themselves know more than all others, and that they alone have imbibed the greatness of the knowledge of that power which is unspeakable.

They also maintain that they have attained to a height above all power, and that therefore they are free in every respect to act as they please, having no one to fear in anything. (See the Second Incarnation greater than that of Jesus)

For they affirm, that because of the "Redemption" (3) it has come to pass that they can neither be apprehended, nor even seen by the judge.

But even if he should happen to lay hold upon them, then they might simply repeat these words, while standing in his presence along with the "Redemption:"

"O thou, who sittest beside God, (4) and the mystical, eternal Sige, thou through whom the angels (mightiness), who continually behold the face of the Father, having thee as their guide and introducer, do derive their forms (5) from above, which she in the greatness of her daring inspiring with mind on account of the goodness of the Propator, produced us as their images, having her mind then intent upon the things above, as in a dream,--behold, the judge is at hand, and the crier orders me to make my defence. But do thou, as being acquainted with the affairs of both, present the cause of both of us to the judge, inasmuch as it is in reality but one cause." (6) Now, as soon as the Mother hears these words, she puts the Homeric (7) helmet of Pluto upon them, so that they may invisibly escape the judge. And then she immediately catches them up, conducts them into the bridal chamber, and hands them over to their consorts.

(Note: if we ridicule the oponent and stand very still, God will not see us and judge us).

7. Such are the words and deeds by which, in our own district of the Rhone,

they have deluded many women,
who have their consciences
seared as with a hot iron.

Some of them, indeed, make a public confession of their sins; but others of them are ashamed to do this,

and in a tacit kind of way, despairing of [attaining to] the life of God, have, some of them, apostatized altogether; while others hesitate between the two courses, and incur that which is implied in the proverb, "neither without nor within;" possessing this as the fruit from the seed of the children of knowledge.


3. I well know, my dear friend, that when thou hast read through all this, thou wilt indulge in a hearty laugh over this their inflated wise folly! But those men are really worthy of being mourned over, who promulgate such a kind of religion, and

who so frigidly and perversely pull to pieces the greatness of the truly unspeakable power, and the dispensations of God in themselves so striking,
........... by means of Alpha and Beta (magical songs),
........... and through the aid of numbers (magical incantations or songs).

But as many as separate from the Church, and give heed to such old wives' fables as these, are truly self-condemned; and these men Paul commands us, "after a first and second admonition, to avoid." (8) And John, the disciple of the Lord, has intensified their condemnation, when he desires us not even to address to them the salutation of "good-speed;" for, says he, "He that bids them be of good-speed is a partaker with their evil deeds;"(1) and that with reason, "for there is no good-speed to the ungodly,"(2) saith the Lord. Impious indeed, beyond all impiety, are these men, who assert that the Maker of heaven and earth, the only God Almighty, besides whom there is no God, was produced by means of a defect, which itself sprang from another defect, so that, according to them, He was the product of the third defect.

Click for Paul's Comments to Timothy and Titus about lifting holy hands.

(3) Such an opinion we should detest and execrate, while we ought everywhere to flee far apart from those that hold it; and in proportion as they vehemently maintain and rejoice in their fictitious doctrines, so much the more should we be convinced that they are under the influence of the wicked spirits of the Ogdoad,--

just as those persons who fall into a fit of frenzy,
the more they
laugh, and imagine themselves to be well,

and do all things as if they were in good health [both of body and mind], yea, some things better than those who really are so,
........... are only thus shown to be the more seriously diseased.

(Note: Gnosticism Ogdoad: The term that describes the eight deities (four male-female pairs) that is associated with Hermopolis, who symbolize the state of the world before creation. The Archon of the Ogdoad imagines himself the supreme god.) (Note: The Dionysus women stood for or mediated for the other women)

In like manner do these men, the more they seem to excel others in wisdom, and waste their strength by drawing the bow too tightly,

(4) the greater fools do they show themselves.

For when the unclean spirit of folly has gone forth, and when afterwards he finds them not waiting upon God, but occupied with mere worldly questions, then,

"taking seven other spirits more wicked than himself," (Note: They do work in teams)

and inflating the minds of these men with the notion of their being able to conceive of something beyond God, and having fitly prepared them for the reception of deceit,

he implants within them the Ogdoad (team spirit) of the foolish spirits of wickedness.

To understand why Paul condemned these same people Click Here for the background to Corinth

To understand why these women were silenced in Corinth Click Here.

Against the Heresies (Ancient Christian Writers, No 55) by of Lyons, Saint Irenaeus, Dominic J. Unger (Translator) is available through

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