Worship with Candles

Robin Guidicy the Candle Wax: I had not intended to post this but because mentioning it got me labeled as slurring and attacking Robin I will post some of his article and comment on it.

The article came from:

'The Candle Wax' from Out of the Box Thoughts from Robin Guidicy

Note: in this review I quote historical data. For instance, the Catholic Encyclopedia does not claim any Biblical authority for candles or music but confesses that they lifted them from pagan cults to attact the pagans. The word "pagan" is used in that context. According to Webster's it simply means a rustic or THE OTHER. A non-Greek is a pagan to a Greek and therefore a non-Christian is a pagan to a Christian.

As the word "pagan" and the word "Christian" in the modern context are not much removed from one another, when we use the word it does not speak to you if you belong to The Pagan Church making you evil. And if we think of people being a "christian" it does not mean that they are a CHRISTIAN.

I was responding to an article which mentioned speaking in tongue's and Robin's charismatic style of song leading at Madison Church of Christ already plagued with "worship performers."

People with a secure relationship with Christ do not feel compelled to DO WORSHIP with symbols (idols) such as candles and music. The fact is that religious rituals are a dead give away that the "seeker" much like David had lost contact with God and was desperately seeking to find, arouse or awaken Him.

"The burning of candles is undoubtedly the result of fire worship that dates back to the beginning of time. It was found by early man that fire could drive away the feared beasts of prey, make his food taste good, and warm his body. Thus fire was found to be beneficial. Down through the ages man has discovered the mystical properties of candle burning, associated with various colors."

Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the "temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, Holidays, and seasons of devotion, processions, blessings of the fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests, munks and nuns), images, and statues... are all of PAGAN ORIGIN." -The Development of the Christian Religion Cardinal Newman p.359

The Catholic Encyclopedia also confesses that they got MUSIC from all common PAGAN CULTS.

The justification for getting "out of the box" and having a candlelight service knowing that it will offend many is that we need to rise out of:

Robin Guidicy: Muddling through this life, refusing to grow spiritually, rejecting positive experiences, using or not using the crutch of tradition, you are filled with ignorance or fear, are afraid of the unknown, the unchartered, or the unseen. You live on milk or are reactionary to inconsequential things. Your reaction proves that you are guilty.

We will show that those who depend on the Bible and all of church history know that candles are for giving light or superstitiously used as a small fire to conduct fire worship of the S.U.N. god or Satan.

Therefore, the new revelations intend to use liberties with the Bible and all that happened before them. Those of use labeled by the listed judgmental terms depend on the Bible and how candles were used. Therefore, not using candles as mediators of a religious "moving experience" is based on the rational (spiritual) while superstition is based on ignorance.

However, we are looking at two Words, two Lords and two radically different ways of worshiping a Spirit God. Our God is worshiped in the spirit or mind, theirs is worshiped in the experience sensed in the nerve endings of the carnal body.

From another site notes that:

"Worship should be the mountaintop experience of the week and should leave the worshiper hungering for more. The worshiper should leave each service closer to God, uplifted, fulfilled, inspired, motivated to seek a closer relationship with God and one another.

That's simply not what Jesus or Paul taught. Paul said that he both worshiped and prayed IN THE SPIRIT. That does not mean inside of a God person but in his own mind as He gave heed to the Words of Christ. Worship does not produce a charismatic EXPERIENCE. The "new style worship" seeks to bring the worshipers into the presence with music, performance talent and other idols. However, Paul warned:

That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: Acts 17:27

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Acts 17:28

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and mans device. Acts 17:29

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Acts 17:30

"Worship" produces a "FALL ON YOUR FACE EXPERIENCE" in my Bible. In a spiritual sense that falling or bowing is to "giving heed to that which is written."

Church is from Ekklesia which was a court to hear testimony and reach decisions. When people "gathered" as church a form of the word "synagogue" was used. The synagogue was a school of the Bible and not a worship center calculated to stimulate the nerve endings to have an experience and leave you hungry.

I wrote to Robin Guidicy more than a year ago but I am still waiting for a response. I will quote Robin in part and you can read the rest if you have good eyes.

The Concerned Members at Madison Church of Christ in Nashville have noted the Heglian Dialectic as a way to first dissociate people by making them unhappy with the OLD so that they have instill a new VISION. While this may seen like a new process, it was well known by Satan in the garden of Eden and was well documented by Machiavelli and Hitler. It is not a sinister plot: it is also used by advertisers to get you to give away last year's automobile for the new and improved version.

The Y2K Syndrome. People were carefully conditioned to believe that TRUTH would fly away into a BLACK HOLE and do a time travel through a WORM HOLE. Therefore, "just now we don't know what truth is until we get the new message from God." Some believe that it will pop out of a "white hole." Because "white holes" in theory pop out in the past, it comes as no surprise that the new worship styles replacing the church as "school of the Bible" look amazingly like those in Babylon just after the flood.

Therefore, as usual, there is a need to ridicule everything as "traditionalism" to condemn the "old" in order to make way for the "new revelation." But, before you do I would remind you that Joseph Campbell, in Myths to Live By, notes that as people loose faith in their old religion they begin to "crack away" and "revert to the archaic" systems of religion.

"Yet there is a great religious fervor and ferment evident among not only young people but old and middle-aged as well. The fervor, however, is in a mystical direction, and the teachers who seem to be saying most to many are those who have come to us

from a world that was formerly regarded as having left altogether behind in the great press forward of modern civilization,

representing only archaic, out-lived manners of thinking. We have gurus galore..."

"I find the end of the millennium personally upsetting to many people. Lately we've been getting lots of manuscripts on how to change your life in ways that haven't really been tried before..."

Of Baby boomers, one editor said, "Right around the turn of the millennium they'll be going through their midlife crisis, whether they like it or not.

This will prompt them to undertake some inner searching --not the least the search for spiritual guides (channelers or vintners) to lead them out of the wilderness of midlife." (Jeremiah, David, Invasion of Other Gods, p. 153).

After the Europeans upsed the old religious system of the Indians:

"Within the span of a decade the religion had become archaic; and it was then that the peyote cult, the mescal cult, came pouring in from Mexico (Aztec land), onto and across the plains, as a psychological rescue... they would gather in special lodges to pray, to chant, and to eat peyote buttons, each then experiencing visions, finding within themselves what had been lost from their society." (Joseph Campbell, p. 89)

"Now the first and most important effect of a living mythological symbol is to waken and give guidance to the energies of life. It is an energy-releasing and directing sign, which not only 'turns you on,' as they say today,

but turns you on in a certain direction,
making you function a certain way--
will be one conducive to your participation
in the life and purposes of a functioning social group
." (Campbell, p. 89).

"when the symbols provided by the social group no longer work, and the symbols that do work are no longer of the group, the individual cracks away, becomes disassociated and disoriented, and we are confronted with what can only be named a pathology of the symbol." (Campbell, p. 89)

Fact: all of those WORSHIP RENEWAL rituals to replace the OLD, OUTDATED are just Satan recycling the most ancient forms of paganism. Festivals intend to take your mind of Lord Jesus Christ and to FORCE YOU TO CONFORM THROUGH BRAINWASHING!

Unfortunately the younger generation of men going through menopause believe that it is the standard which must be imposed upon everyone else.

Whether right or wrong for you, Candle Light services are the well-documented Archaic worship beginning in Babylonia and bestowed on Israel because of their musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. God "turned them over to worship the starry host."

If old churches of Christ are uniquely ignorant and fearful to engage in trying to worship a Spirit God by lighting up candles it may be because the pre baby boomers (infantile drummers) understood that the world's history associate candles and music with paganism.

The baby boomers have a right to go off and pay for a church in which they can drip candle wax on the carpet to their heart's content.

However, it is pretty weird that the totality of evidence is discounted as ignorance and the VISIONS OF THE NEW LIGHTS is held to be educated, brave and spiritual.

However, that is the meaning of postmodernism. Truth didn't exist until ME.

For instance, evidence IGNORED: In Jerusalem they used little babies as "wicks" to light up Molech so that he would give them a revelation through the cries which were interpreted by the priests. In Israel (Amos 5, 6, 8) it was Remphan or Chiun worshiped with music.

"From very early times the Romans had celebrated their Saturnalia in honour of the old vegetation-god at that time with a great display of presents, CANDLES, and dolls (probably a reminiscence of an earlier sacrifice of children). From the reign of the Emperor Aurelian (270-6), who introduced a SOLARCULT (the S.U.N. god) of a high ethical character, December 25th was the outstanding day of their calendar and was officially described as "the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun." Joseph McCabe

Of the
Saturnalia: Sir James George Frazer, in his classic study of magic and religion (The Golden Bough, McMillan, 1976), says this mock king was an allusion back to the idyllic days of the reign of Saturn and the slaves being given temporary freedom at this time hearkened back to these days when all were free and things were just (ibid., ix, p. 308 ff). Roman soldiers stationed on the Danube in the reign of Maximian and Diocletian are recorded (by Franz Cumont) to have chosen a young and handsome man to resemble Saturn from among them by lot thirty days before the festival.

They dressed him in royal attire to resemble Saturn. He went about in public
attended by a retinue of soldiers and indulged his passions no matter how base and shameful. At the end of thirty days, he then cut his own throat on the altar of the god he personated.

In the year 303, the lot fell upon the Christian soldier
Dasius but he refused to play the part of the heathen god and to soil his last days by debauchery. He refused to give in to the intimidation of his commanding officer Bassus and was accordingly beheaded by the soldier John at Durostorum on Friday 20 November 303 being the twenty-fourth day of the Moon at the fourth hour (Frazer, ibid.).

This is quite identical to the AZTECS used by Rubel Shelly and Randy Harris as a PATTERN for church renewal.

The origin of candles

The use of candles goes back to the ancient Aryan religion which used them at the Yule ceremony to ward of the gods of thunder, storm and tempest (Frazer, x, p. 264 (n. 4) and also p. 265). They were lit and tied to the sacred oak (ibid., ii, 327).

In some areas (Ruthenia and Europe generally) they were used by thieves and burglars to cause sleep (Frazer, i, pp. 148-149) and in this case they were made of human tallow (ibid., i, p. 236).

Parts of the human anatomy were also used as candles or human bones were filled with tallow made from the fat of hanged men (ibid., p. 149).

Sometimes, candles were made from the fingers of new born or, preferably as they saw it, unborn children. As late as the seventeenth century in Europe robbers used to murder pregnant women to extract such candles from their wombs (ibid.).

Candles were burnt to ward off witches. They entered Christianity through the Catholic or Orthodox Church (cf. Frazer, ibid., i, p. 13).

The ancient Aryan practice continued among the Germans of lighting new fire by means of a Bonfire at Easter and sending the sticks to each home to start the fires to ward off the gods of thunder, storm and tempest. The practice was introduced to Catholicism as the Easter candle.

This single giant candle was lit at Easter on Saturday night before the Easter Sunday and then all the candles of the church were lit from it. This continued for the year until next Easter when the single Easter candle was again lit.

We watched this last night from the "church of the nativity." The "birthplace" of Jesus is marked by a starburst as symbol of planetary worship. As predicted, fire fell from "heaven" and the priest lit all of the other candles. The people passed their hands through the candles and washed their faces as they held what looked like an orgy of riot.

The practice of lighting the candle appears to take place on the night before the day of the Sun as part of the ancient Sun worshipping system.

In the Temple, incense was burned. Candles were not burned other than as the Menorah.

This practice of burning lights as candles or tapers was similar to that of the Saturnalia. We know from the Book of Baruch 6:19 ff that the practice of lighting candles before idols overlaid with precious metals was Babylonian. The practice of lighting multiple candles probably entered Judaism through the Babylonian system. We will deal with it in more detail in the section on Easter.

The Menorah was seven branched and ordered by God for the Temple. In Solomon's Temple, there were ten tables of seven candles representing the Council of the Elohim of which the Sanhedrin was a copy. The nine branches are given mystical symbolism. There is no biblical authority for them.

Click to see the Serpent worship, Music, Candles and fire worship connection.

Child mas

In honor of the Queen of Heaven's child who was killed by a boar, a system was set up where a child was sacrificed. This is one of the forms it took:

In advance of the festival, the trees of the groves were decorated with gold- and silver-dipped boar testicles, and gifts for the sun god were placed under them.

The way that the phallics were changed from a pole to a tree was that Semiramis, the night before this festival, had a log, called a yule, brought in and set up. During the night, she burned the yule,

and brought in a tree to show that the dead log had been brought to life by Tammuz's resurrection.

The babies that were conceived on Ishtar (Easter) day were born in time for this Child mas. They were dedicated by sprinkling water over them in the form of a T, for Tammuz, while the priests built up a big fire, over which was a chute. The live baby was placed in an iron case, which in turn was placed inside the chute. The baby was roasted over that fire, and at the other end of the chute, the priests would have a feast. [They were priests of Baal: Khana-Baal. Get it?}

As a side dish, eggs were dyed in the blood of the children who were not roasted.

Question: when you direct the children's attention away from Christ and toward pagan superstitions are we not sacrificing them?

Robin Guidicy's Theology: "It amazes me, how often we, as believers, muddle through this life, hardly taking the time to NAVIGATE the waters of spiritual growth. So much so, that when we have a positive spiritual EXPERIENCE it comes as a pleasant surprise.

The human spirit is to the human what the Mind of Christ is to the Holy Spirit God. Jesus said that worship is IN SPIRIT or in the mind as it is devoted to TRUTH: the Word of God is Spirit and Life (John 6:63). If you tickle the nerve endings by watching a candle you are giving heed to an idol which is required to ENHANCE the plan of Christ to speak through His Words to our spirit. The candle is aiding as "mediator" between man and God.

Spiritual (rational) growth comes from eating spiritual food: the Word of God. The "singing" cult the Musical Worship Leaders have silenced is really called speaking or teaching the Word. We know that because that is what Paul commanded, because OUR singing did not exist at that time and because the church was school of the Bible and not a pagan worship center. Remembering that Lynn Anderson (and lots of other people) is Navigating the Winds of Change. However, Paul showed us how to grow:

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Ephesians 4:14

But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: Ep.4:15

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Eph 5:19

For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. Rom 15:4

Jesus identified the Jewish clergy as children playing and piping trying to get others to dance. If you are still not GROWING a candle won't do it: singing won't do it but:

WHEREFORE laying aside all malice, and all guile (a trick of the trade, decoy), and hypocrisies (acting), and envies, and all evil speakings, 1 Pet 2:1

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 1Pe.2:2

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. 2Pe.3:18

Grace is not "unlimited forgiveness for unlimited sins" but it is Charisma which means POWER to conform to the WILL of Christ.

Your self composed, erotic praise songs are neither milk nor meat and therefore CANNOT produce spiritual growth while you are violating the Words of Christ.

Robin Guidicy: "Many times we use the crutch of tradition, but the root isn't tradition it is instead ignorance or fear. We are afraid of the unknown, the unchartered, or the unseen.

"We live on milk instead of meat, and our reactions to the smallest, most inconsequential things are reflective of that.

Now, we have used the old Heglian principle. Click to see how you must be convinced that YOUR OLD way is ignorant before WE can teach you the truth:

"Because all of this information is contingent upon a specific ideology,
public receives a socially-constructed common sense or group mind.

"People might have a religious experience with such a higher power,
one thing is discounted:
        The importance of
propositional truth. Or, to put it differently,
                postmodern worshipers are like postmodern readers;
                they are
the source of truth, not the discoverers of truth.
"Of the several religious leaders we profile in The Death of Truth,
        most explicitly say that
personal experience is the key to understanding religion.

"Dissociation is the loss of conscious awareness of the real world. Specifically, postmodern religionists call for people
leave all rational thinking behind before ascending to the godhead.
        Thus, they see one thing as the
supreme barrier to deep religion: Reason, and its handmaiden, truth.

"Whether it's Joseph Campbell, John Bradshaw or Fredrick Turner, all agree that
        we must
first take leave of our senses
        before trying to know spiritual things. How similar they are to some calls within the evangelical church!

The Postmodern Method: Religion Jim Leffel and Dennis McCallum, contributors

Music and candles as magic are after the traditions of men because Christ did not teach them:

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Col. 2:8

However, Jesus established some traditionalism which has not happened:

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 2Th.3:6

Paul knew only Christ and Him crucified because the Corinthians were not yet ready for the MEAT OF THE WORD. They were still carnal and based on the background of Corinth they were plagued with looking for PHYSICAL proof that they were worshiping a Spirit God. As far as Paul and history knows they never moved far beyond the CANDLE-POWERED pagan worship.

Robin Guidicy: "We had a candlelight service Christmas Eve at our church, for the first time. In ANY other religion it would not matter, but for us, candles are a big issue. The rest of the world burns them you know, and we don't. In fact, I'm not really sure what we did before Edison invented the light bulb. Perhaps the moon was closer to the earth and provided the needed light.(ha)

Now, I can appreciate the power going out at minus 4 degrees for four hours: you turn on the 18th century oil running lamp and light the candles, turn on the battery radio and listen to 40s Grand Old Opry songs and listen to the same old Martha White Flour commercial. But (Scrooge always says but) that is for me and not for God.

When the power comes on I understand that the power of candles (legalism or traditionalism) does not measure up to Edison's bulb (Jesus as the Light)

WE burned kerosene because candles would be the most cost intensive, luxurious, candle-power resource: only rich people had candles where I grew up. Sure, people burn candles for some events but trying to worship a Holy Spirit God with fire worship is not post modern: maybe post flood. I don't believe that I have ever heard candles mentioned in the church of Christ except during weddings.

Joseph McCabe became a bitter Monk and therefore his writings are pretty harsh.

The choice of December 25th was obviously part of the general policy of disarming the pagans and Mithraists when their cults were suppressed, and it began, significantly, at Rome.

In pre-Christian times knowledge of astronomy and the calendar was so imperfect that the great nature-festivals, originally fixed at mid-winter, spring, mid-summer, and autumn, often got out of date,

but even in Roman days the birth of a solar or a vegetation-god, saving the world from the darkness, discomfort, and sterility of winter, was widely celebrated at the winter solstice (December 21st) or just after it, when the day began to lengthen again.

From very early times the Romans had celebrated their Saturnalia in honour of the old vegetation-god at that time with a great display of presents, CANDLES, and dolls (probably a reminiscence of an earlier sacrifice of children). From the reign of the Emperor Aurelian (270-6), who introduced a SOLAR CULT (the S.U.N. god) of a high ethical character, December 25th was the outstanding day of their calendar and was officially described as "the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun."

The coming of Mithraism from Persia confirmed the date. The Mithraic cave-temple was on the Vatican Hill, close to the Christian settlement, and the midnight celebration of the birth of the saviour-god,

--with blaze of candles and clouds of incense (as in the Catholic "midnight mass" to-day), would be familiar to every Christian.

Do candle users worship the sun? Probably not but the total evidence for using candles in worship deprives anyone from branding as ignorant and fearful those who do not worship with candles.

Hislop notes that: Along with the sun, as the great fire-god, and, in due time, identified with him, was the serpent worshipped.

"In the mythology of the primitive world," says Owen, "the serpent is universally the symbol of the sun." In Egypt, one of the commonest symbols of the sun, or sun-god, is a disc with a serpent around it. The original reason of that identification seems just to have been that,

as the sun was the great enlightener of the physical world

so the serpent was held to have been the great enlightener of the spiritual,

by giving mankind the "knowledge of good and evil."

Sophia, Eve, Zoe and Mary are identified as the great enlighteners, the Mother of the gods. Zoe taught the minor "jehovahs" how to organize instrumental music bands. She is quite identical to Lucifer, the enlightener and "they called her the Beast." Shophia-Zoe are "the female instructing principle."

This, of course, implies tremendous depravity on the part of the ring-leaders in such a system, considering the period when it began; but such appears to have been the real meaning of the identification. At all events, we have evidence, both Scriptural and profane,

for the fact, that the worship of the serpent began side by side with the worship of fire and the sun.

The beginning, then, of sun-worship, and of the worship of the host of heaven, was a sin against the light--a presumptuous, heaven-daring sin.

As the sun in the heavens was the great object of worship,
so fire was worshipped as its earthly representative.
Robin Guidicy: "In truth, we in the church of Christ have become OBSESSED with making sure the rest of the world knows that Christmas Day isn't Jesus birthday, and so, we refuse to sing the songs of the season, or talk about his birth at all.

Not so. I have lived over 71 years and have heard little about Christmas. It is Rubel Shelly who wants to "baptize" Santa and even the S.U.N. god as the S.O.N. God. Both Christmas, Santa and candles are intimately related to ancient S.U.N. worship to which God TURNED ISRAEL OVER because of their musical IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai.

Remember that the primary worship word in both Hebrew and Greek means "to give heed to." If we worship our wives this means that we pay attention to them. If we spend all of our time on CCM from CDs stolen of the internet then we are worshiping the performers. If our attention is fixated on candles so that he produces a "moving experience" then candles, like all symbols are IDOLS.

The demand of God through Amos to the Israelite S.U.N. worshipers was to "give heed to His Word." They did not but gave heed to "new wineskins" and musical performance. The result was that God DRIED UP the Word and they died for spiritual hunger and thirst.

If we light a candle in connection with "worship" then we are giving heed to the little fire and it seems to actually BESTOW light and spiritual warmth. Therefore, we are worshiping the candle fire.

If we direct our kids to Easter Egg trees then wittingly or half-wittingly we are directing their attention away from the CREATOR to the CREATURE. This is absolute if you connect it to "church."

Rubel Shelly: "And when I tell you that Santa has been baptized, I'm echoing the ancient Christian tradition of what one theologian dubbed "baptizing the traditions of secular holidays in the message of God's love that has been revealed in Jesus Christ."

Since the time of Emperor Constantine's conversion to Christ and his order to "Christianize" the pagan feasts,

Christians have been seeking to turn every symbol (mark IDOL) to the glory of God. Thus a midwinter festival to the s-u-n was converted into a day of rejoicing over the S-o-n of God. If Jesus is described by biblical writers as the "Sun of Righteousness" and God's "true light coming into the world," what could be more natural?

All this is to say that one of the good things about "baptizing Santa Claus" is to dispel the false notion that Christians don't know how to have fun. That we never lighten up. That we're perpetually guilty of some sort of -- and this is Jack Hayford's term -- "sanctified Scroogism."

While Dr. Shelly sees the Exodus as a pattern for Christian worship and community, the Bible and everyone else reject the idea:

Too Long In The Sun, Richard Rives sees in Exodus 32, a Biblical precedent which provoked God nearly to the point of destroying the nation of Israel for their sin of blending (baptizing) pagan worship with His own:

"...the golden calf was built and the celebration declared a 'feast to the Lord.'...The people had declared a celebration to honor God that

he did not recognize as being in his honor."

I have worked in churches from Alabama, to Tennessee, to Indiana, to Minnesota, to Washington state and back to Tennessee which sang Christmas songs for the kids. Therefore, I believe this is simply the ploy to make churches of Christ look silly in order to instill some Lynn Anderson's NAVIGATING schemes. Rubel Shelly uses the same ploy to make those who will not worship with instrumental groups as something like brother killers, fire bombers of clinics and attackers of ladies wearing furs. Blacks in Seattle were told of those who opposed instruments that this meant that they would be present-perfect-tense "racists." They lied, cheated and stole their building also after being empowered by Willow Creek (lifted by Saddleback), Jubilee and the Zoe Group.

Now that you have been warned about objecting:

Robin Guidicy: "So, late on the night before Christmas, we gathered in the auditorium, by the flicker of a candle and worshipped our God. Those of our congregation that attended were moved, and want it to become an annual service.

From the Towers of Babylon onward people have always believed that BEING MOVED means worship. It may be or it may not be: music creates endorphins or Morphine-Within and the goose-bump quotient is a measure of how drugged up you are.

Maybe some are not ignorant, fearful, backward or "unspiritual." Perhaps some are just better informed and don't depend on latter day impulses which are guaranteed to fall on those who subscribe to the "Core Gospel" that the Bible has been sifted of all authority for faith and practice: perhaps it is strong delusions being sent by strong deluders who do a BODY COUNT and ENTHUSIASM (enthus O mania) check to validate their idolatry of talent to STEAL SHEEP:

"Here were collected all the elements calculated to affect the imagination.
The spectacle presented at night was one of the wildest grandeur.
The glare of the blazing camp-fires falling on a dense assemblage of
heads simultaneously bowed in adoration and reflected back from long ranges of tents upon every side; hundreds of candles and lamps suspended among the trees, together with numerous torches flashing to and fro, throwing an uncertain light upon the tremulous foliage, and giving an appearance of dim and indefinite extent to the depth of the forest;
the solemn chanting of hymns swelling and falling on the night wind;
the impassioned exhortations; the earnest prayers; the sobs, shrieks, or shouts, bursting from persons
under intense agitation of mind;
the sudden spasms which seized upon scores, and unexpectedly
dashed them to the ground --
all conspired to invest the scene with terrific interest, and to work up the feelings to the highest pitch of excitement.
When we add to this, the lateness of the hour to which
the exercises were protracted, sometimes till two in the morning, or longer; the eagerness of curiosity stimulated for so long a time previous; the reverent enthusiasm which ascribed the strange contortions witnessed, to the mysterious agency of God.

DOING worship rituals is truly an expression of a lack of faith. We are obsessed with doing something to create that MOVED feeling which does not arrive from being given back the "keys of knowledge."

Robin Guidicy: My God looks for authentic, BIBLE-based worship, that focuses on him and not the worshiper. The lighting, temperature, clothing, carpeting, are of no consequence.

Jesus said that MY God only looks for worship in the spirit or mind (nous) which is the holy place (naos) of the temple. The seven branched candle sticks or the seven candlesticks represent the seven Spirits of God. These are not "charismatic movements."

AND there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: Isaiah 11:1

And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord; Isaiah 11: 2

And shall make him of quick understanding (spiritual) in the fear of the Lord: Isa 11:3a

And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. Rev 4:5

The holy place was typical of the church or body of Christ. There was no singing or music in the holy place and when the incense was offered by the priest there was total silence as both those inside and outside the holy place. That meant that the "players" HELD their harps and offered their own prayers in total silence.

God in the Most Holy Place "dwells in darkness" and total silence. Therefore, you cannot--dare not--try to impress Him with sound:

and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: Isaiah 11: 3b

When the elders fell before the lamb they had harps and incense but these WERE the prayers of the saints (Rev. 5:8).

Consistent with this there was no praise service in the Synagogue or in the early church. Worship was "giving heed" to the Word (light) and offering their own prayers in silence.

"The priests and the people had reverently moved back from the altar in the courtyard, and were prostrate before the Lord, offering unspoken prayer and thanksgiving for God's mercies, provision, and deliverance, along with petitions for blessing and peace." From Source

The teaching was from the Word or Spirit of Christ (John 6:63) but the singing, melody and praise was "in the heart" or silent:

singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord Eph 5
singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord Col 3

And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. Col.3:17

Because of the figurative language, when you hold your harp you understand that God is in His Holy Temple and all the earth is to keep silent before Him. Your prayer and incense is in the heart and directed to God and not the "audience." Even the trumpeters and harpist in the court representing the "world" also held their peace when God was being worshiped.

No lamps were allowed in the most holy place where God meets us: our authenticity is tested by whether we have the TRUTH in our own, personal spirit as we worship. The Levitical musicians were not allowed in the holy place representing the church and any musician who attempted to accompany ME into the most holy place would have been killed for presumptuous sin.

The LIGHTS in the holy place have been replaced by the blood of Christ who died to give us light. Thereafter, we do not depend on candle power in the holy place or church any more than we depend on the blood of bulls and goats after Christ came to fulfill the FINAL Jubilee.

Therefore, a strong delusion is in effect when people reject the LAVER and depend on flickering lights and Levitical musicians (noise makers).

I don't know how you can get a flickering fire out of the Bible's teaching about "worship." The primary worship word applied to the assemblies means "to give heed to the Word." That even defines David when he is said to be worshiping a spirit God. If we "give attention" to the candle then we are engaged in fire worship.

Robin Guidicy: It was reported to me that someone had found candle wax on the carpet, during he next week. "Thats great, I replied, "Someone was here worshiping God."

SIGNS or MARKS? Candle wax evidence of worship? That is what the witches and neo-pagans believe about their circle around the fire with candles.

FOR REBELLION IS AS THE SIN OF WITCHCRAFT, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. 1 Sam 15:23

Religious Ceremonies. The religious rites, which we should call divine service at the present day, were solemnised with the greatest reverence. Homage to the Master was always paid at the beginning of all the sacred functions, and this often included the offering of a burning candle. At Poictiers in 1574 [1] the Devil was in the form of "a large black goat who spoke like a person", and to whom the witches rendered homage holding a lighted candle.

Boguet says in 1598[2] that the witches worshipped a goat, "and for greater homage they offer to him candles which give a flame of a blue colour. Sometimes he holds a black image which he makes the witches kiss, and when kissing it they offer a candle or a wisp of burning straw".

The Somerset witches in 1664[3] said that when they met the Man in Black at the Sabbath "they all make low obeisance to him, and he delivers some Wax Candles like little Torches, which they give back again at parting".

As a rule the candles were lighted at a fire or light which the Grandmaster carried on his head between his horns; which shows that the rite was reserved for the great Sabbaths when the Devil was "in his grand Array".

De Lancre (Tableau p. 68) says that the Devil usually had three horns, with "a kind of light on the middle one, by which he is accustomed to illuminate the Sabbath, and to give fire and light to those witches who hold lighted candles at the ceremonies of the mass which they counterfeit."

Usually the Devil lit the candles himself and handed them to his worshipers, but sometimes the witches were permitted to light their own candles. In either case the symbolism conveyed the meaning that to his worshipers their god was the source of all light. (This is Lucifer/ Zoe)

During the ceremony of receiving homage the god was enthroned. After the ceremony of the candles the congregation knelt before his throne chanting his praises. Then there were hymns and prayers, and sometimes the Master gave an address on the tenets and dogmas of the religion. This was more common in Scotland than elsewhere, as sermons have always been popular in that country, but preachers were known in France also. Murray on Witches.

Are candle burners witches? Of course not. However, all of the evidence should prove that those who do not use mediating candles are not just ignorant or fearful.

If the test is "my feelings" you are not talking about your spirit or mind (nous) as the holy place (naos) which is the only PLACE God plans to meet you, then you believe that if if feels good to us it must feel good to God. That is why "musical worship teams" were anciently known as "the harem of the gods."

My point is that the stream of history gives us good reasons for not believing that a pleasant custom is worship -- as in ancient fire worship. For instance, our old traditionalists may have understood what the Catholic Encyclopedia always lays out so honestly: they had no motive for relying on the Word but adopted paganism into the church as it became dominated by the Roman Empire. That was the easy way to get lots of new "members" but of course they had to compromise. That is where they also got their "converted" paid priesthood.

The whole article from the Catholic Encyclopedia is here. I find that if you want to know anything then dictionaries and encyclopedias certainly help.

"Candles from the Catholic Encyclopedia: The word candle (candela, from candeo, to burn) was introduced into the English language as an ecclesiastical term, probably as early as the eighth century. It was known in classical times and denoted any kind of taper in which a wick, not uncommonly made of a strip of papyrus, was encased in wax or animal fat.

We need not shrink from admitting that CANDLES, like incense and lustral water, were commonly employed in pagan worship and in the rites paid to the DEAD.

But the Church from a very early period took them into her service, just as she adopted many other things indifferent in themselves, which seemed proper to enhance the splendour of religious ceremonial.

We must not forget that most of these adjuncts to worship, like MUSIC, LIGHTS, perfumes, ablutions, floral decorations, canopies, fans, screens, bells, vestments, etc. were not identified with any idolatrous cult in particular; they were COMMON TO ALMOST ALL CULTS.

Alexander Hislop associates the candles with the worship of Nimrod at the Tower of Babel and of devil worship.

"The wax-candle was, in fact, a hieroglyphic, like so many other things which we have already seen, and was intended to exhibit the Babylonian god in one of the essential characters of the Great Mediator."

The re-imaging or re-visioning of the church movement promoted by Rubel Shelly restores the worship of goddess worship such as Sophia or ZOE. Among Methodists (feminists Methodists propelled) The revisioning of the Lord's Table depends on the wax candles and the honey for elements.

Alexander Hislop also reports on the views that Christmas was related to Babylonian worship:

"It was the custom," says he, "during the five days it lasted, for masters to be in subjection to their servants, and one of them ruled the house, clothed in a purple garment like a king." (Sabbath)

This "purple-robed" servant was called "Zoganes," the "Man of sport and wantonness,"

and answered exactly to the "Lord of Misrule," that in the dark ages, was chosen in all Popish countries to head the revels of Christmas. The wassailling bowl of Christmas had its precise counterpart in the

"Drunken festival" of Babylon; and many of the other observances still kept up among ourselves at Christmas came from the very same quarter.

Flaunting of religious taboos or the "holiness of sin" has been part of every attempt to help Christ begin the millennium. It seems clear that the candle light service, women exercising sexual authority (authentia) and music intends to flaunt old taboos to prove that one has "graduated" into the world of "seeing the unseen" which history cannot see.

The candles, in some parts of England, lighted on Christmas-eve, and used so long as the festive season lasts, were equally lighted by the Pagans on the eve of the festival of the Babylonian god, to do honour to him:

for it was one of the distinguishing peculiarities of his worship to have lighted wax-candles on his altars.

The Christmas tree, now so common among us, was equally common in Pagan Rome and Pagan Egypt. In Egypt that tree was the palm-tree; in Rome it was the fir; the palm-tree denoting the Pagan Messiah, as Baal-Tamar, the fir referring to him as Baal-Berith.

The mother of Adonis (Tammuz), the Sun-God and great mediatorial divinity, was mystically said to have been changed into a tree, and when in that state to have brought forth her divine son.

If the mother was a tree, the son must have been recognized as the

"Man the branch."

And this entirely accounts for the putting of the Yule Log into the fire on Christmas-eve, and the appearance of the Christmas-tree the next morning.

Even where the sun was the favourite object of worship, as in Babylon itself and elsewhere, at this festival he was worshipped not merely as the orb of day, but as God incarnate. It was an essential principle of the Babylonian system, that the Sun or Baal was the one only God. When, therefore, Tammuz was worshipped as God incarnate, that implied also that he was an incarnation of the Sun. Hislop

Here is an old woodcut of the Jew's worship of the Sun. A modern version exists at Woodmont churh in Nashville: Phallic symbols even when MASSA probably used slave labor to flaunt his power.

Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lords house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. Ezekiel 8:14

Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. Ezekiel 8:15

And he brought me into the inner court of the Lords house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. Ezekiel 8:16

The cult of Tammuz centered around two yearly festivals, one celebrating his marriage to the goddess Inanna. Inanna is Ishtar or Easter.

This is totally consistent with the view that "musical worship teams" in Rubel Shelly's words "lead the worshipers into the presence of God." Other teams claim that they are the priests and "mediators between man and God" or "we are the platform upon which God lands." Since the Zoe group is all mixed up in training "worship" teams to do body or physical worship, the use of the fire of the candle as mediator is not stretched.

In Pagan processions: "these were usually followed by the principal youth of the place, in white linen vestments or surplices, singing hymns in honour of the gods whose festivals they were celebrating, accompanied by crowds of all sorts that were initiated in the same religion, all with flambeaux or wax-candles in their hands."

Now, so thoroughly and exclusively PAGAN was this custom of lighting up lamps and CANDLES in daylight, that we find Christian writers, such as Lactantius, in the fourth century, exposing the absurdity of the practice,

and deriding the Romans "for lighting up candles to God,
as if He lived in the dark."

I clearly understand that motives make the difference but these notes (if you are listening) should explain why the older scholars understood the symbolism of candlelights as an attempt to worship God by adopting pagan rituals such as music which appeals only to the flesh. At least we can say that it is grossly unfair to brand those who will not participate in what was ancient fire worship or Devil worship as: "muddlers, not interested in spiritual growth, depending on crutches, being ignorant, being fearful, not able to 'see the unseen,' living on milk, being reactionary to inconsequential things." And the proof of superiority is getting the freedom to resurrect ancient (but end-time) Babylonian superstitions.

If I understand Revelation 18, the rest of the world will probably be engaged in fire and musical worship when Jesus sounds His Trumpet-like voice.

And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Rev 18:22

And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. Re.18:23

But for the rest of us who meet in the holy place (church) but worship in the spirit or mind (most holy place) there can be no light and no musicians trying to push their arrogant way between the worshipers and their personal God.

If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light. Lu.11:36

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Re.22:5

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2Co.4:6

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. Ep.5:14

The "heglian" method or even Machiavelli is quoted about change agency which is also boasted of by Hitler, is that you have to convince everyone that the OLD is destructive before you can reveal the new.

No, I am not attacking Robin Guidicy but I am attacking the views promoted by the Jubilators that if we don't baptize most any practice "to be as much like the world as possible" then we are backward sinners.

Modern candle, fire or sun worship is as ancient as the Catholic urge to adopt pagan practices to attract pagans. However, calling a thing "Christian" does not make it so as Dr. Rubel Shelly suggests:

Rubel Shelly: "Whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him," counseled the Apostle Paul (Col. 3:17).

If any activity, celebration, or feast cannot be immersed in Christ-honoring significance, there is no place for it in our lives.

If it can be baptized in or colored with Christian connotation,

we would be dishonoring God and cheating ourselves by failing to do so.

This does not translate "Do whatever you wish to do, just label it with Christian."

Rather, it means that "unless you have Christ's authority attached to it you CANNOT do it."

"When once it was proved that the Pope was willing to adopt Paganism under Christian names, the Pagans and Pagan priests would be his most hearty and staunch defenders.

And when the Pope began to wield lordly power over the Christians, who were the men that he would recommend--that he would promote--that he would advance to honour and power?

Just the very people most devoted to "the worship of the strange god" which he had introduced into the Christian Church.

Gratitude and self-interest alike would conspire to this.

Jovinian, and all who resisted the Pagan ideas and Pagan practices, were excommunicated and persecuted.

If you want to find out whether it is churches of Christ who are OBSESSED with not worshiping Santa, Ishtar, Candles and Musical "idolatry of talent" just look up the word on the internet and tell me if you can find a COC article anti-Christmas! Robin Guidicy's article is the only one I have read by a church of Christer.

Refusing the mediating power of candles, instruments, praise teams or any other "device" does not mean that WE muddle through this life, refuse to grow spiritually, depend on positive experiences, use or don't use the crutch of tradition, are filled with ignorance or fear, are afraid of the unknown, the unchartered, or the unseen, live on milk or are reactionary to inconsequential things.

Ignorance applies to THEY who don't know the facts about music or idols such as candles.

However, WE know in fact that all of the informational base which might dispel ignorance informs us that candles are idols, are mediating devices and have been historically associated with S.U.N. worship or Satan worship.

WE depend on the Bible and history to inform us, THEY depend on their personal opinion for authority in worship. Therefore, WE and THEY do not practice the same religion.

THEY may use all of the candle power THEY wish but THEY sshould not feel the need to justify THEIR practices by trying to prove that WE have to be dispatched by serial justmental terms.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Peter 1:19

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Colossians 3:10

Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, Luke 1:78

To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace. Luke 1:79

And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel. Luke 1:80

It would seem that one who must disqualify those not OUT OF THE BOX by a fairly brutal attack in order to get MOVED by the flicker of a fire may be more obsessed about candles and Christmas than most of us who just take a deep breath about Thanksgiving and try to hang on until about January 15.


Musical worship Index

Home Page

Counter added 6.05.07

 2.03.10 2000