Matthew 11 

Response to "Peck" and "Marc s" defending the use of music and musicians in the Church of Christ.  Marc s rejects the idea that SPEAK as excluding all forms of what Jesus identified as the hypocrites and takes the liberty to gloat: "Oh yeah, I'm familiar with his beliefs. As I said on that thread, the splitting off of his comments should likely happen more often." Marc s. So, I have split off Peck and Marc s for a much broader debate.

I recommend Erasmus' in praise of Folly.  173

Take away this salt of life, and the orator may even sit still with his action,

the musician with all his division will be able to please no man,
the player be hissed off the stage, the poet and all his Muses ridiculous, the painter with his art contemptible, and the physician with all his slip-slops go a-begging. 

As if anyone hearing an ass bray should take it for excellent music, or a beggar conceive himself a king. And yet this kind of madness, if, as it commonly happens, it turn to pleasure, it brings a great delight not only to them that are possessed with it but to those also that behold it,
        though perhaps they may not be altogether so mad as the other,
        for the species of this madness is much larger than the people take it to be.

For one mad man laughs at another, and beget themselves a mutual pleasure.
Nor does it seldom happen that he that is the more mad, laughs at him that is less mad.

Or to what purpose is it I should mind you of our professors of arts? Forasmuch as this self-love is so natural to them all that they had rather part with their father's land than their foolish opinions; 

but chiefly players, fiddlers, orators, and poets, of which the more ignorant each of them is, the more insolently he pleases himself, that is to say vaunts and spreads out his plumes.

And like lips find like lettuce; nay, the more foolish anything is,
the more 'tis admired, the greater number being ever tickled at the worst things, because, as I said before,
most men are so subject to folly. 

This is important because when God pours out the WINESKINS of His wrath the word is ORGE or He turns seemingly sane men into singers, rhetoricians, jesters and buffoons.

Click for an index of his takes on ALL of the clergy.

Because Marc s posted a thread under my name and gladly accepted the "children piping in the marketplace" I have posted this discussion of the MARK between the new marketplace religion of "wine, women and song" even as they lie about all of the "instrument" terms in the Bible and church history, and the Church of Christ and accept running off 300 outof the 900 "owners" to clearly "make a place in the mainstream  for those who both amuse and repulse us." That was the boast that the homosexual community would take over the churches after taking captive music and the media.

In a DEBATE over whether DEBATE is proper for the church, we noted that the ekklesia has the same meaning as the synagogue. That meant to "gather" the people to read the word and speak one to another.  The word is not preach but dialog or dispute. After discussing that portion of the read Word, the group tried to "gather" or assemble their understanding. The word SPEAK specificially means the opposite of rhetoric, singing, playing instruments or any thing that would hinder the sullogizing process.

In Romans 14 Paul outlawed doubtful disputations meaning discussing the persons OWN pet ideas, sermons or songs.  Romans 14 defines the "synagogue" and in a number of places contrast the "out of church" or marketplace activities as NOT permitted in the ekklesia or synagogue.

In contrast to the Bible and historic understanding modern religions or cults have stopped the dialog and imposed the rhetoricians, singers and musicians Jesus CAST out to the marketplace along with all of the other pollutants and polluters. In those areas music, sexuality and peversions were MARKS Jesus and Paul and all decent early churches excluded. The Apostolic Constitutions about the year 200 by The Church of Christ lumped musicians, prostitutes and Sodomites together.

The ONLY role of the ekklesia or synagogue (Paul's word) was to READ, discuss or DIALOG the Word, admonish one another to obey the doctrine, TEACH the Death of Christ in the Lord's Supper, and GO HOME.  Paul warned about the weak (effeminate) or SOFT people in the area of the MEAT markets (Agora), SILENCED them and commanded SPEAKING "that which is written." ONLY. The thing which DESTROYED the SYLLOGISM nature of the Ekklesia or Church is identified by the SOFT:

THOSE HISTORIC "BEAN EATERS" WHO INVADE THE DIALOG OF THE BODY AND SEDUCE IT ARE DEFINED BY THE TERM:

Malakos g. of reasoning, weak, loose, logosIsoc.12.logoslian m. Arist.Metaph.1090b8 . Adv. -kôs, sullogizesthai to reason loosely

e. of music, soft, effeminate, m. harmoniai    melos lyric poetry, choral songs opposite Epic,
2. music to which a song is set, tune, logou te kai harmonias kai rhuthmoum

In the same chapter Jesus will claim that the people went out to see a SOFT John the Baptist and then consigned the pipers, singers and dancers to the Agora where SECTS werel identified by their diet (Rom 15) but all dallied to see and hear the dogs or catamites, singers, dancers, drama, pagan rituals and buy and sell.  The PSALLO rope was used to MARK them as polluted as they were forced to go up to the PNYX to attend ekklesia (church) for verbal instructions only.

The literature warns that the MARKET place musicians (parasites) often invaded the ekklesia (church) and discovered that they could pervert the whole assembly by sexual favors, fawning like dogs, making music all to get eat without working.  

HOWEVER, THIS CANNOT BE THE EKKLESIA WHERE THE SPIRITS OF CHRIST ALL RELATE TO DIVINE WISDOM:

[395] Sophistry is not wisdom, and to indulge in thoughts beyond man's ken is to shorten life; and if a man on such poor terms should aim too high, he may miss the pleasures in his reach.

These, to my mind, are the ways of madmen and idiots. Oh! to make my way to Cyprus, isle of Aphrodite, where dwell the love-gods strong to soothe man's soul, or to Paphos, which that foreign river, never fed by rain, enriches with its hundred mouths!

[402] Oh! lead me, Bromian [Dionysus "to roar"] god, celestial guide of Bacchic pilgrims, to the hallowed slopes of Olympus, where Pierian Muses have their haunt most fair.

Bromian also of music, lura bremetai kai aoida Pi.N.11.7

Pindar Nemean 11. [6] often they worship you, first of the gods, with libations, and often with the savor of burnt sacrifice. Lyres and songs peal among them, and Themis, who belongs to Zeus the god of hospitality,

There dwell the Graces; there is soft desire; there thy votaries may hold their revels freely.
The joy [417] of our god, the son of Zeus, is in banquets, his delight is in peace, that giver of riches and nurse divine of youth. Both to rich and poor alike hath he granted the delight of wine, that makes all pain to cease;

CHARA or CHARIS which is the "goddess" of Charismatic which involves pederasty among ALL "priesthoods." That is why Jesus died to "fire the doctors of the Law who take away the key to knowledge."

The SELF pleasure Paul outlawed identifies the prophesied REPROACHES of Jesus which means to MAKE HIM NAKED to expose his PUDENDA. That is, it was prophesied and said to have been fulfilled that the TRIUMPH OVER of Jesus and the PERSONA of Judas with his flute case meant that they sodomized Jesus as the warrior musicians MOCKED him: maybe THAT is why people want to LEAVE Jesus hanging on the cross quite naked?

Matt. 11:6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

4624. skandalizo, skan-dal-id´-zo; from 4625; to entrap, i.e. trip up (figuratively, stumble (transitively) or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure):  (make to) offend. 

And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, 
        What went ye out into the wilderness to see? 
        reed shaken with the wind? Matt 11:7

Jesus always spoke or acted parables to "fool the fools" from the foundation of the world. Probably no person at the preacher or musician level knows that they are MARKED or identified by Jesus so those with eyes and ears will not be TRIUMPHED OVER as Psalm 41 says that Judas would try in a musical sense.  You may want to click on the Dead Sea version of Psalm 41.

The effeminate priests of Dionysus shook the thyrus or bundle of reeds. In addition, the reed was vital in the seductive process of the serpent: 0.Idiot

Behold! the Holy Idiot, lost within 
A private world. He'll have the chance to win 
New freedom from confining rules. 
Rejoice The madness! For it brings another choice. 
Now let the Saturnalia begin

When the time comes, as it always does, when the old rules, conceptual structures, prejudices and beliefs are no longer adequate to the challenges at hand, then a Divine Maniac is needed. He or she lives in a private world, and so is not bound by the shared conventions, preconceptions or norms of the society. The Gods - or Chance - select the Idiot who will become the savior who will transform society. He is elevated to King for a short time (for only so much madness can be tolerated), and must undergo many transformations before, with luck, he rejuvenates the world. [Second Incarnation]

It is appropriate that 0.Idiot leads the trumps for, according to Cartari (Imagini degli Dei, 1647), Bacchus invented the "triumph" in the form of the wild processions of maenads, panthers and other creatures, which he led (Williams 31). Indeed, Latin triumphus or triumpus comes from Etruscan, which got the word from Greek thriambos, a hymn to Bacchus (Bonfante, p. 17). Our image is based on the famous Townley Vase (2nd cent. BCE), which depicts a Bacchanalian triumph.

What men or gods are these? What maidens loath? What mad pursuit? What struggle to escape? What pipes and timbrels? What wild ecstasy? - Keats, "Ode to a Grecian Urn"

Fig trees, which are sacred to Dionysos, represent both vitality and enlightenment. The figleaf is shaped like male genitalia and the fig fruit like female genitalia; to this day in Europe the fica (sign of the fig/vulva), a gesture made by placing the thumb between the first two fingers, is used for protection (as also are phallic gestures). The Bodhi, under which the Buddha found enlightenment, was a fig tree; so also our Idiot will be illuminated beneath fig-laden branches. (Biedermann s.vv. fig; fig, sign of the; Cooper s.v. fig)

The thyrsus (pine-cone tipped staff) is a phallic symbol representing the life force. Its staff is a stalk of the narthex (giant fennel), which Prometheus used to convey the celestial fire to humanity (see 12.Hanged Man). The jester is consistently associated with the phallus as a symbol of fertility and lewdness (lewd jokes were an essential part of several Greek religious festivals, including the Eleusinian Mysteries and the Anthesteria, in both of which Dionysos had an important role, and the Thesmophoria). (Biedermann s.v. thyrus; Cooper s.v. thyrsos; Nichols 28)

Lets back up and see  how Adam and Eve Fell: 

Of the Transmission of the Art of Playing the Harp, that is to say of Music and Singing and Dancing.

 

Yôbâl (Jubal) and Tôbalkin (Tubal-Cain), the two brethren, the sons of Lamech, the blind man, who killed Cain, invented and made all kinds of instruments of music.

 

Jôbâl made reed instruments, and harps, and flutes, and whistles,

 and the devils went and dwelt inside them.

When men blew into the pipes, the devils sang inside them,

and sent out sounds from inside them.

 

And Satan had been made ruler (or prince) of that camp Fol. 12b, col. 2. And when the men and women were

 

stirred up to lascivious frenzy by the devilish playing of the reeds which emitted musical sounds, 

and by the harps which the men played

through the operation of the power of the devils, 

and by the sounds of the tambourines and of the sistra 

which were beaten and rattled through the agency of evil spirits,

the sounds of their laughter were heard in the air above them, 

and ascended to that holy mountain.

 

The "parable" not well hidden from the literate means:

 

Saleuo (g4531) sal-yoo'-o; from 4535; to waver, i.e. agitate, rock, topple or (by impl.) destroy; fig. to disturb, incite: - move, shake (together), which can [-not] be shaken, stir up.

 

Salos (g4535) sal'-os; prob. from the base of 4525; a vibration, i.e. (spec.) billow: - wave.

Saino (g4525) sah'ee-no; akin to 4579: to wag (as a dog its tail fawningly), i.e. (gen.) to shake (fig. disturb): - move.

 

Salpigc (g4536) sal'-pinx; perh. from 4535 (through the idea of quavering or reverberation): a trumpet: - trump (- et).

HERE IS THE ABSOLUTE CONNECTION BETWEEN RELIGIOUS MUSICIANS AND SUMMER FRUITS.

THUS hath the Lord God shewed unto me: and behold a basket of summer fruit. Amos 8:1

And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the Lord unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more. Amos 8:2

A basket:

Keluwb (h3619) kel-oob'; from the same as 3611; a bird-trap (as furnished with a clap-stick or treadle to spring it); hence a basket (as resembling a wicker cage): - basket, cage.

As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. Je.5:27

Keleb (h3611) keh'leb; from an unused root mean. to yelp, or else to attack; a dog; hence (by euphemism) a male prostitute: - dog.

For dogs have compassed me: the assembly [multitude, swarm] of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. Ps.22:16
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. Is.56:11

And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the Lord: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy. Je.15:3

Aeschylus, Suppliant Women The tender ripeness of summer fruit is in no way easy to protect; beasts despoil it--and men, why not?-- [1000] and brutes that fly and those that walk the earth. Love's goddess spreads news abroad of fruit bursting ripe. . . . So all men, as they pass, [1005] mastered by desire, shoot an alluring arrow of the eye at the delicate beauty of virgins. See to it, therefore, that we do not suffer that in fear for which we have endured great toil and ploughed the great waters with our ship; and that we bring no shame to ourselves and exultation to our enemies

Opôr-a belonging to bakcheios III. metaph., life's summer, the time of youthful ripeness, Pi.I.2.5 ;

Bakch-eios or Bakcheios, A. of or belonging to Bacchus and his rites, botrus S.Fr.255.2 ; nomos E.Hec.686 (lyr.); rhuthmos X.Smp.9.3 , etc.: hence, frenzied, rapt

The PSALLO rope made from REEDS has another meaning:

schoin-iôn II. an effeminate air on the flute, Plu.2.1132d,1133a, Poll.4.65,79.

This is repeated in th end time for the speakers, singers and musicians as FRUITS working for the Mother of Harlots.

And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. Rev 18:14

Opôr-a

Bakchias A. of or belonging to Bacchus and his rites rhuthmos X.Smp.9.3 , etc.: hence, frenzied, rapt,

The only meaning of LEGALISM in the Bible.

Nomos , ho, ( [nemô] ) can mean "the Law of God" without respect to MOSES.
A. that which is in habitual practice, use or possession, not in Hom. (cf. J.Ap.2.15), though read by Zenod. in Od.1.3.
I. usage, custom, [Mousai] melpontai pantôn te nomous kai êthea kedna Hes.Th.66n. archaios aristos

Mousa 1 [*maô] I. the Muse, in pl. the Muses, goddesses of song, music, poetry, dancing, the drama, and all fine arts, Hom.: the names of the nine were Clio, Euterpe, Thalia, Melpomene, Terpsichore, Erato, Polymnia or Polyhymnia, Urania, and Calliope, Hes.,

II. mousa, as appellat., music, song, Pind., Trag.:--also eloquence, Eur.:--in pl. arts, accomplishments, Ar., Plat.

Melpô to sing or CELEBRATE. This "arousal singing" was always associated with Phoibos who was the BRIGHT ONE who is also Lucifer and Zoe. He competed with the Pythian spirit Paul cast out of the little TRAFFICING girl USED by men.

The MARK on the forehead:
III. metaph., life's summer, the time of youthful ripeness, Pi.I.2.5 ripe virginity,

Pindar, Isthmian 1.[1] The men of old, Thrasybulus, who mounted the chariot of the Muses with their golden headbands, joining the glorious lyre, lightly shot forth their honey-voiced songs for young men, if one was handsome and had [5] the sweetest ripenesssweet gentle-voiced odes did not go for sale that brings to mind Aphrodite on her lovely throne. [6] For in those days the Muse was not yet a lover of gain, nor did she work for hire. And, with silvered faces, from honey-voiced Terpsichore. But as things are now, she bids us heed [10] the saying of the Argive man, which comes closest to actual truth: [11] “Money, money makes the man,” he said, when he lost his wealth and his friends at the same time. But enough, for you are wise. I sing the Isthmian victory with horses, not unrecognized, which Poseidon granted to Xenocrates,

And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Rev 18:22