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Mail: Holy Spirit - John 14:16 - Another Comforter

Just a note to let you know that Jesus called the Holy Spirit, "another comforter" (Jn 14:16). The word "another" denotes clearly someone else

Tom

See Jay Guin speaking for those who do not define words or compare parallel statements.


Thanks, Tom

There is only One God "person" or being.

This is an important observation. There are many ways in which God appears in three forms (or even more) and these seem to contradict His being One God or Being. However, He manifests Himself in ways which "registers" with the triad nature of mankind who was created in His image. We are often at odds without ourself or even beside ourself but we are not triplets.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens:
         but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord,
        Sit thou on my right hand,
Acts 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
        that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
        both Lord and Christ.
Throughout the New Testament and especially in the Epistles as each writer completed his part, the term "The Holy Spirit" almost dissappears and the two-fold relationship of "persons" is universal in the salutations:
  1. God the Father in Heaven
  2. Jesus made to be both Lord and Christ to be the one mediator between man and God.
  3. The Spirit OF God identifies HIS rational nature.
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children,
        in that he hath raised up Jesus again;
        as it is also written in the second psalm,
        Thou art my Son,
        this day have I begotten thee.

Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead,
        now no more to return to corruption,
        he said on this wise,
        I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Jesus Christ as Spirit would remind the Apostles (only) of what He had commanded them to teach in person.
When He appeared to Paul to qualify Him to be an apostle who saw and heard the post-crucified Jesus called Himself Jesus of Nazareth: the same one Paul had persecuted. His Spirir form will be our form when we are resurrected if we have been accepted as His disciple by obedience in baptism.
This is the promise of the Holy Spirit of Christ which Jesus would become.

Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou Blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? John 10:36

If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. John 10:37
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe,
that the Father is in me,
and I in him. John 10:38

Full invisible Deity

Manifestations (personae)






Father in me

Works

Son of God




I in HIm

Speaks

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jn.14:8

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Jn.14:9

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Jn 14:10

Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works sake. Jn 14:11

I understand the "another" passage as follows:

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16

Jay Guin: Jesus is our Counselor, and the Spirit is another Counselor. The Greek word translated Counselor is the same word used for a defense attorney. It is literally “one who stands beside” to give comfort or counsel. Some translations call the Spirit the “Comforter.” And the word refers to a person, not a book. And Jesus himself speaks of sending “him,” not “it.”

Another does not mean "a different" Comforter but will be different in some respects: Jesus of Nazareth in His post-resurrection state WILL be Holy Spirit and not flesh and bones.

Jesus of Nazareth was born of a virgin, the SEED of Abraham: He did not exist before He existed.  Christ took on the form of a man to die on the cross. He died, was resurrected, was transfigured or changed.  He did and does exist in the same state we will be in after we are resurrected.  After Jesus received the promise of the holy spirit form HE returned at Pentecost and made Himself known by fire and tongues,  John says that the "another" or in a different form Comforter bears the name "Jesus Christ the Righteous: there is only one Paraclete.


Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him,
        that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh,
        he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ,
        that his soul was not left in hell,
        neither his flesh did see corruption.
1Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
        and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
        and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
        then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
        Death is swallowed up in victory.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Acts 2:33 Therefore (Jesus) being by the right hand of God exalted,
        and having received of the Father
        the promise of the Holy Ghost,
       HE hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
1Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting?
     O grave, where is thy victory?
1Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin;
    and the strength of sin is the law.
1Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God,
   which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself,  The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Acts 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
        both Lord and Christ.
1Corinthians 15:58  Therefore, my beloved brethren,
      be ye stedfast, unmoveable,
      always abounding in the work of the Lord,
      forasmuch as ye know that your labour
      is not in vain in the Lord.

When the Spirit Lord appeared to Paul He said "I am Jelsus of Nazareth." There is NO OTHER name.

Jesus was changed or metamorphosed into another form: He did not become a different person but He now exists in His post-glorified state.  That is the same state promised to us: the gift of A holy spirit.
Allos 3. allos kai allos, one or two; allo kai allo one thing after another, id=Xen.
II. rarely like alloios, of other sort, different, Il.: hence 2. sometimes like a comp., c. gen., alla tōn dikaiōn other than just,
Rarely: alloios , a, on, (allos) A. of another sort or kind, different,

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;
        that ye should be married to another,
        even to him who is raised from the dead,
        that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Heteros here is not another numerically but "in another or a different way, changed, altered."

1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
        for the trumpet shall sound,
        and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
        and we shall be changed.

236. allasso, al-las´-so; from 243; to make different: — change.
allassō , later Att. allanto-ttō Pl.Prm.139a: impf.
II.  a. ti tinos give in exchange, barter one thing for another,
2. take a new position, i.e. go to a place, “a.Haida thalamousE.Hec.483; “polin ek poleōsPl.Plt.289e.
243. allos, al´-los; a primary word; “else,” i.e. different (in many applications): — more, one (another), (an-, some an-)other(-s, -wise).

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile [slave] body,
        that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body,
        according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
metaskhēma^t-izō , A. change the form of a person or thing, Pl.Lg. 903e,
summorph-os , on,A. of the same shape as, tini Nic.Th.321, cf. Ep.Phil.3.21; tinos Ep.Rom. 8.29: abs., similar, Luc.Am.39.

Romans 8.[29] For whom he foreknew (Israel),
         he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son,
        that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
  1. Jesus of Nazareth was changed into another form.
  2. He ascended to the one God the Father
  3. He received the promised Holy Spirit
  4. He returned--as promised--at Pentecost as Holy or Wholly Spirit in form
  5. He (Jesus post-change) shed forth the sights and sounds in the upper room.
  6. He did not change His Name: Holy Spirit is not a name
1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
        And if any man sin, we have an advocate (paraklete) with the Father,
        Jesus Christ the righteous:
1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins:
        and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God,
        and one mediator between God and men,
        the man Christ Jesus

1 Thess 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep,
        that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
        even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
        that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord
        shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,
        with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
        and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit,
        but try the spirits whether they are of God:
        because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God:
        Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:
        and this is that spirit of antichrist,
        whereof ye have heard that it should come;
        and even now already is it in the world.
1John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them:
        because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1John 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them
1John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us.
        Hereby know we the Spirit OF truth, and the spirit of error. 

Notice that John used the word "another" and not "different" Comforter. Another is from the Greek:

Allos (g243) al'-los; a prim. word; "else," i.e. different (in many applications): - *more*, one (another), (an-, some an-) other (-s, - wise).

See the Greek sources to show that the Holy Spirit would not be a different Being.

Another and different--

"have a difference in meaning, which despite a tendency to be lost, is to be observed in numerous passages. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes 'another of the same sort'; heteros expresses a qualitative difference, and denotes 'another of a different sort. (Vine, on Another)

Paul speaks of a different gospel (heteros) which is not another. It is a totally different gospel and not one of the same sort or more of the same. (Galatians 1:6-7. This different word is:

Heteros (g2087) het'-er-os; of uncert. affin.; (an-, the) other or different: - altered, else, next (day), one, (an-) other, some strange.

Therefore, the Comforter would not be a different one but one of the same sort. Jesus lived in flesh and blood but the Spirit was in Him. When He was glorified in His resurrected physical body, He was a comforter of another sort but not a different sort. My physical self is of one nature and my spiritual self is another.

Therefore, this would not be another or different "person" but the spirit of truth.

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17

The apostles knew him (the another comforter) because He present-tense lived with them and would be in them.

In verse 18, Jesus defines comforter as a father who would not leave them orphans in the world. Furthermore, this Comforter would be the same Being in a Spirit form which they were presently listening to in a physical form. Jesus said that He would be the "another" Comforter:

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18

Remember that Jesus said that "if you have seen me you have seen the father." Now He says that He will be the Father to them. Next,

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:23

This would not be GOD and JESUS but "Father" and "Son."

However, Paul knew the "we" to be the full Deity which had decided that, for man to relate to a pure or holy Spirit God, He (God) would manifest Himself or "Image" Himself as a human being. This is still true. The human, physical mind cannot relate to a purely Spiritual Being. Therefore, Jesus as man is the Intercessor between our spirit and His Spirit:

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, Colossians 2:9

Jesus later "appeared" to Paul in "another form" and promised to guide him into all truth and remind him of what he had been taught. This is the same thing the Holy Spirit would do for the original apostles.

And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest Acts 26:15

But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Acts 26:16

Paul was not disobedient unto the "heavenly vision," Jesus was in "another" comforting form but His name was Jesus and He was the Lord.

I hope this helps you see "where I am coming from." I believe that the Bible clearly teaches that God manifests Himself in a triad form but that He is not three independant "persons" who, as some believe, is able to "stand side by side and face to face to hold a conference to decide who is best for what task." One notorious preacher even has a little, childish story in which the Father and Spirit seem to have tricked the Son into sacrificing Himself for the sins of the world!!

The Godhead appears to us as separated but only because our minds are not yet equipped to understand the deep things of God.

Thanks for treating differences with tolerance because I will never rise above being a student.

Kenneth


Thanks Ken for your response. I read it, but respectfully disgree. I believe in One God revealed in three persons. This is what I'm convinced the Bible teaches.

Tom


Well, Tom, I don't know how to say it plainer.

Do you have an alternative translation of Jesus promising "another" and then plainly saying "It will be me?" I may be missing something -- often do.

Do you have another passage which bothers you?

The word "person" is:

Prosopon which means "appearance." The early scholars, who always (somewhere in their writings) made it clear that God could not be cut up into a family. They used the word "personae" which does not mean person but a mask or an appearance of God in different roles. The pagan view was that god was literally many gods but at the head was usually a triad. The Old Testament uses a common word, elohim, which means a plurality. However, in many passages, it is clear that Jehovah is our elohim. To refute these pagan views of several or many gods, the Bible shows that the One God manifest in Jesus Christ fulfilled all of these roles which were considered necessary.

Webster agrees with this definition by saying that persona is an actor's face mask, hence a character. However, in a modern sense, a person is "a human being, distinguished from a thing or lower animal." So when we say that God is three persons we demote Him from being a Spirit being and make him into three human beings.

Ken

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 4.18.11 2000

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