Douay-Rheims Bible - Transubstantiation - Eating the Flesh and Blood of the Historical Jesus ChristIn the Douay-Rheims Bible, Jesus never said: This WINE IS my BLOOD! Surprised aren't you? He really said: This juice is the New Testament. The bread must be understood in the same way: a memorial and that which is memorialized are not the same thing. In Luke 22:
15 And he said to them: With desire I have desired to eat this pasch with you, before I suffer.
(In Babylon from whence the 4 cups comes, the literal blood was memorialized by literal wine. Therefore, the grape juice was symbolic and caused people to remember the blood shed in Egypt. When Jesus took the juice everyone understood that it was not literal blood but represented blood. When the Jews offered a DRINK OFFERING with fermented wine they POURED IT OUT at the base of the altar)
16 For I say to you, that from this time I will not eat it, till it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
(To eat and drink the pasch was to eat literal bread and drink literal juice.)
17 And having taken the chalice, he gave thanks, and said: Take, and divide it among you:
(Note: you don't divide a chalice: you divide the contents. You have to understand figurative language)
18 For I say to you, that I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, till the kingdom of God come.
(Now, Jesus understood that it was literal grape juice but it would stand for or memorialize His blood.)
19 And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me.
(The body was still alive so the bread was bread and not fleshly tissue)
20 In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.
(The contents in the chalice represented the blood of Christ to be shed for everyone)
1- thanks for the reading lists, but tell me something ken; what are you trying to prove: is it that you can read and i can't or that you know what it means but i don't?
2- how can you say, with a straight face, that you honor any spirit? you don't even honor the plain words of Christ Himself. Christ says "this IS my body". you say it is NOT His body. think about it ken. obey the gospel ken.
Bill, you are still not listening to Jesus explain Himself. Reading is the lost art because it is almost impossible to read the Word as it has been delivered without coloring it with what we have been taught from infancy.
Remember that I wrote that Jesus said "this is my body" to offend those who didn't, couldn't, grasp the meaning of spirit.
He knew that He would skim off those who couldn't discern spirit speech (parables to hide the truth from the foundation of the world, Mt 13) then He could explain spirit to those who did not run off into their old Judaism (which your good people reconstructed and your scholars admit it). Most protestants do the same think.
You may want to listen to the claim among protestants that they are modern Levites. Most musical praise teams or worship teams are deluded into believing that the are the mediators between God and the worshiping and paying "audience." Their priesthood is exactly like the Catholic priesthood which is exactly like the Jewish priesthood. But, readers understand that the Jewish priesthood and Levites were mediators but they forcefully kept the people away from the symbols of God's presence. Music was the method of tyranny to force those incidentally present as the clergy and king worshipped to fall on their face. The "audience" did not worship with music.
After speaking to those who didn't or couldn't hear, then Jesus could say, "the body counts for nothing, it is going away." However, the "spirit" which produces His Spirit (mental disposition) and His Life (salvation) was His WORDS.
So Jesus spoke on two levels to two different people:
The "flesh" thinkers to whom He deliberately hid the truth, and
The "spirit" thinkers to whom He revealed that one must eat and drink of His Word because that is where He put His Mental Disposition. As the always-existing God, Jesus lives as pure or holy Spirit.
The "juice" was a "memorial" of the literal shed blood and the bread was the "memorial" of the offered body.
The flesh thinkers were chased off because they couldn't survive in a spirit church.
The spirit thinkers remained faithful but they ate and drank bread and juice as a "memorial" (like a tombstone) of the event. Christ's WORDS and not the juice transferred the literal Spirit or mental disposition of Lord Jesus (Jehovah-Saves) Who is the One and only God and the One and only Spirit. Because he is pure (uncontaminated with anything not spirit) He is Holy Spirit.
The "flesh" thinkers continued the Jewish legal system with a king (pontiff), priests and Levites and temples modeled after Jewish temples as Jewish temples were modeled after pagan temples with the "poles" or spires to prove that the effeminate church still wanted to be known as masculine. The Catholic Encyclopedia knows that the trappings of paganism were added to attract the pagans. When you attract the pagan (flesh) thinkers you loose control to the pagan (flesh) thinkers.
Most protestant churches bash Catholics but do exactly the same thing.
The flesh thinkers hung around and protected the old temple until about a million of them were dead.
And they literally ate the flesh and drank the blood of their own children. The literal or flesh people had Christ's judgment passed upon them.
The spirit thinkers were "hurried off into the wilderness" as the marriage of religion and civil rulers (as in the Kingdom under the Jews) poured out a flood of water (untruth) to try to drown the "woman and her child" who did not, could not, marry up with a civil ruler but had to depend totally upon Christ in the Spirit realm.
Most protestant churches spew forth the same flood of untruth and half-truth because as "organizations" their primary interest is in 'buildings and grounds' or 'programs' to keep the people's minds off the Spirit Words of Christ. Almost all "singing" falls under the condemnation of Amos condemning Israel.
Assuming that you really are a reader of the Spirit, let's rehearse:
The message of literal flesh and literal blood was spoken to the flesh thinkers from whom Jesus hid the truth. The "cannibalism" chased them out of the way and made them into literal cannibals. Any church, Catholicism and almost all "Protestants" depend almost totally upon a "flesh" form of religion and worship: Literal Levitical Musical Praise Teams to "lead the audience into the presence of God!" Like, Wow! Pure flesh and blood:
The truth of "the flesh counts for noting but spirit and life is in my Word," was spoken privately to the spirit thinkers.
Jesus never spoke to the "multitudes" without speaking in parables. You could never find Jesus in a crowd of "spiritual" people because spirit people are not usually popular enough in any location to make up a crowd.
Conclusion: by believing in the literal flesh and blood you may be among those to whom Christ the Spirit does not speak.
You may want to read again and listen with your "spirit" to the Spirit of Christ explain this in John 6.
To Those Not Given the Truth Jesus said:
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:54
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. John 6:55
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. John 6:56
These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. John 6:59
Now, Bill, how can you drink the literal blood of the literal Jesus and be literally inside of the literal Jesus?
Now, you have the literal Jesus living inside of the literal Bill while, at the same time, the literal Bill is living inside of the literal Jesus. Do you really want to get mixed up with the flesh thinkers?
To Those To Whom He Explained the Parable Jesus said:
Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? John 6:60
When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? John 6:61
What and if ye shall see the Son of man (flesh) ascend up where he was before? John 6:62
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63
So, spiritually, I can dwell in the word and the word can dwell in me.
So, Bill, if the protestant musical worship team can literally materialize God and your priest can resurrect Jesus and make Him live inside (to be carried by the priest) the wafer, what would you have? Jesus said "the flesh profiteth nothing?" You would just be a cannibal and literal flesh cannot change your literal mind. You can eat steak all day long but you won't have the urge to burp up and rechew it like a cow. Even if you could literally ear the literal flesh and drink the literal blood of Jesus you would be just where you would be if you picked on any good Jew you found on the street. You could eat him whole and drink all of his blood and you would just be a Nazi. Your spirit nature would not be changed for the good and indeed your spirit would be doomed immediately.
The "flesh and Blood" Jesus was going away and the Spirit Christ would return (John 14:16-18). Therefore, it was self evident that His flesh and blood was not for carving up and blood sucking.
To Romans and Corinthians tempted very early to do what Rome finally did.
Using the fatal attraction of the Egyptian bull whose flesh you could eat and blood you could drink which sentenced Israel to destruction at Mount Sinai, Paul warned not to repeat the pagan god-resurrection rituals so that you could carry him around in procession. He warned the Romans (and Corinthians in 10:20) not to try it:
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Romans 10:6
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) Romans 10:7
So if you try to resurrect Jesus and call Him into your assembly and "provide a platform upon which God lands" you will just be a pagan Roman who has no hope of eternity because you reject the once-for-all literal appearance (until the end) and the totally-adequate shedding of blood which looked backward to all faithful people and looked forward to all faithful people. That blood does not need a clergy person to administer it. Indeed, anyone who gets between Christ and His Children is a pretend mediator and is one of those flesh people to whom Jesus refuses to even speak.
Well, Bill, this is the way I read it. You can Click Here and read the same story in the The Douay-Rheims Bible
40 And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting, and I will raise him up in the last day.
41 The Jews therefore murmured at him, because he had said: I am the living bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said: Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How then saith he, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered, and said to them: Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets: And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard of the Father, and hath learned, cometh to me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father; but he who is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Amen, amen I say unto you: He that believeth in me, hath everlasting life.
48 I am the bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the desert, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven; that if any man eat of it, he may not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven.
52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world.
53 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.
55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.
56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.
57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.
58 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.
59 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.
The Jews ate literal Manna and are dead. Therefore, the "bread" of Jesus is not literal.
60 These things he said, teaching in the synagogue, in Capharnaum.
61 Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it?
62 But Jesus, knowing in himself, that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you?
63 If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
64 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life.
65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning, who they were that did not believe, and who he was, that would betray him.
66 And he said: Therefore did I say to you, that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father.
67 After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him.
68 Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away?
69 And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Peter comprehended that he was not being asked to eat literal flesh and blood. The spirit they would drink of was clear to him:
64 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life.
70 And we have believed and have known, that thou art the Christ, the Son of God.
71 Jesus answered them: Have not I chosen you twelve; and one of you is a devil?
72 Now he meant Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon: for this same was about to betray him, whereas he was one of the twelve.
Note: Judas was a thief and he carried the money in the bag designed to carry the mouthpieces of wind instruments. It was always attached to a flute case and Psalm 41 promised that Judas would not triumph over Jesus. Triumph is the loud rejoicing with wind instruments which destroys the rational ability to understand the Word and was outlawed for the assembly. Numbers 10:7
First Corinthians CHAPTER 11.
Women must have a covering over their heads. He blameth the abuses of their love feasts; and upon that occasion, treats of the blessed sacrament.
BE ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me: and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you.
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraceth his head.
5 But every woman praying or prophesying with her head not covered, disgraceth her head: for it is all one as if she were shaven.
6 For if a woman be not covered, let her be shorn. But if it be a shame to a woman to be shorn or made bald, let her cover her head.
7 The man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man.
9 For the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man.
10 Therefore ought the woman to have a power over her head, because of the angels.
11 But yet neither is the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12 For as the woman is of the man, so also is the man by the woman: but all things of God.
13 You yourselves judge: doth it become a woman, to pray unto God uncovered?
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that a man indeed, if he nourish his hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman nourish her hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering.
16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor the church of God.
17 Now this I ordain: not praising you, that you come together not for the better, but for the worse.
18 For first of all I hear that when you come together in the church, there are schisms among you; and in part I believe it.
19 For there must be also heresies: that they also, who are approved, may be made manifest among you.
20 When you come therefore together into one place, it is not now to eat the Lord's supper.
21 For every one taketh before his own supper to eat. And one indeed is hungry and another is drunk.
22 What, have you not houses to eat and to drink in? Or despise ye the church of God; and put them to shame that have not ? What shall I say to you? Do I praise you? In this I praise you not.
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread.
24 And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me.
25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.
26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come.
Eating and drinking was not to drink and eat literal flesh and blood: the Douay says that it was to commemorate the Lord. A commemoration is a symbol and not the reality.
27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.
By not honoring Christ one became guilty of shedding the blood of Christ because the sacrifice has no value to one who does not recognize its value.
28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
30 Therefore are there many inform and weak among you, and many sleep.
31 But if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But whilst we are judged, we are chastised by the Lord, that we be not condemned with this world.
33 Wherefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another.
34 If any man be hungry, let him eat at home; that you come not together unto judgment. And the rest I will set in order, when I come.
Bill, I have covered this at great length for the readers.