Feeding Sheep or Amusing Goats

Kenneth Sublett, Piney.com, Hohenwald, Tennessee

Donnie Cruz Letter to the Elders 

"An evil is in the professed camp of the Lord, so gross in its impudence, that the most shortsighted can hardly fail to notice it during the past few years. It has developed at an abnormal rate, even for evil. It has worked like leaven until the whole lump ferments.

The devil has seldom done a cleverer thing than hinting to the church that part of their mission is to provide entertainment for the people, with a view to winning them.

"From speaking out as the Puritans did, the church has gradually toned down her testimony, then winked at and excused the frivolities of the day. Then she tolerated them in her borders.

Now she has adopted them under the plea of reaching the masses.

"In vain will the Epistles be searched to find any trace of this gospel of amusement! Their message is, "Come out, keep out, keep clean out!" Anything approaching fooling is conspicuous by its absence.

They had boundless confidence in the gospel and employed no other weapon.

"After Peter and John were locked up for preaching, the church had a prayer meeting but they did not pray, "Lord grant unto thy servants that by a wise and discriminating use of innocent recreation we may show these people how happy we are." If they ceased not from preaching Christ, they had not time for arranging entertainments. Scattered by persecution, they went everywhere preaching the gospel. They turned the world upside down (Acts 17:6). That is the only difference!

Lord, clear the church of all the rot and rubbish the devil has imposed on her, and bring us back to apostolic methods.

"Lastly, the mission of amusement fails to effect the end desired. It works havoc among young converts. Let the careless and scoffers, who thank God because the church met them halfway, speak and testify.

"Let the heavy laden who found peace through the concert not keep silent! Let the drunkard to whom the dramatic entertainment has been God's link in the chain of the conversion, stand up!

"There are none to answer. The mission of amusement produces no converts. The need of the hour for today's ministry is believing scholarship joined with earnest spirituality, the one springing from the other as fruit from the root. The need is biblical doctrine, so understood and felt, that it sets men on fire. Charles Haddon Spurgeon 1834-1892

Scholars note that the musical praise movement is spiritually sterile: it leaves no offspring and therefore dies of its own shame but not without taking many with them.

See the connection between Charismatic terms and homosexuality in the pagan religions. Worship as Threskia was invented by Orpheus in the Greek world and it is practiced any time and place people engage in WORSHIP ACTS OR RITUALS intending to influence God or the "audience."

The heavy burden laded on the poor used like pack animals was "spiritual anxiety created by religious ritual." When the body moves and the hands fly one is being "afflicted" emotionally and the only motive is to steal the worship due to God. Jesus came to give us rest from these afflicting ceremonies.

Giving Heed to the Word was the principle "act" of worship in the Christian Synagogue. "Preaching" Narrative Theology of cut-N-paste sermons was never an act of worship. Thomas Campbell and most older scholars define how the Word is the "Truth" of worship "in spirit" or in the mind which is the only kind and place God even bothers to look for. Outrageious Biblical illiteracy "among the scholars" is explained by Paul's teaching that "fools love to be fooled." Read how two people had to abandon churches built around pagan entertainment in order to discover the Word. Click and go down to where The Devil is Laughing to see how he and the watching world is not laughing WITH the new for-hire Bible Repudiators but laughing AT them and their followers just as the Israelites became a LAUGHINGSTOCK with their musical idolatry at Mount Sinai (Now the SCHOLAR'S pattern for worship and community.)

"Wherefore the blessed apostle says : "I testify in the Lord, that ye walk no longer as the Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind; having their understanding darkened,

being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart: who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness and concupiscence. [Eph. iv. 17-19. ]

"Let no one then despise the Word, lest he unwittingly despise himself. Clement

Our comments on the first part of the letter to Concerned Members Forum at Madison church of Christ, Nashville, Tennessee.

New Notes Added On the Vineyard Pattern. Violating Paul's Direct Command is Having Sex with God!

Rough notes reviewing the AUTHORITY for the practices at Madison Church of Christ of hand clapping (body drumming) and other charismatic practices induced by a "new style of worship" which a class leader promotes as "holy theater" which must be induced by infiltrating and diverting.

These practices have caused a majority of the founding and funding members to leave the congregation as it is taken over by a community church movement.

The notes in the box are some of the defenses made by members for their practices. We can understand what they want to do by what they defend

Dear Fellow Christians,

We can appreciate the spirit and tenor of your letter but we must disagree with your conclusions. It is correct that we are to stand firm and be loyal to the practices, principles, and commands as they are spelled out in GOD's word but not necessarily traditions.

You are making interpretations that are tradition based and not based upon intellectual honesty thus doing precisely what you say not to do in this letter when you refer to "private interpretation of the scripture".

The restoration movement in North America has been a great attempt to restore Christianity to be as close to that of the New Testament as possible. Since none of us are 1900 years plus in age, all we can do is draw from the Bible and biblical historians as to what the early church was like. There are many things that we can and do agree upon such as how we are added to the church, the work of the church, the organization and government of the church and the teachings of the church. On these issues we say that the scripture is very clear.

However, when it comes to the worship practices of the early church, there is very little actually taught in the scriptures and historical documents.


Jimmy Sites said the conflict was fueled by tradition-bound individuals who lack tolerance for opinions about worship styles other than their own. However, the conflict is always caused by those who add practices which have no Scriptural basis or which are not necessary for the operation of the church. Since, the church prospered before Jimmy and the intrusion of charismatic worship styles, we might suggest that those who ADDED the fuel caused the conflict. However, then Jubilee and Navigating the Winds of Change scheme is that if we want to add something to YOUR worship and YOU resist us then YOU are the hostile forces. Abraham Lincoln following Adam knew the guilt clause:

"There were those saying that they could "not abide the election of a Republican President." In which event they would destroy the Union. "And then, you say, the great crime of having destroyed it will be upon us! That is cool.

A highwayman holds a pistol to my ear, and mutters through his teeth, "Stand and deliver, or I shall kill you, and then you will be a murderer." Abraham Lincoln, Frost, Vol. 1, p. 274

Conflicts always begin by innovators and improvisers who are stripped bare of Biblical knowledge. Those resisting are always falsely accused of being tradition bound. The real reason is exemplified by this present article and the push for converting the church into a venue for "holy entertainment." That has never been a "worship style" except among superstitious pagans. Hand clapping during the Lord's Supper is more serious than the false claim of "just raising hands during prayer."

Next, the news article points out further proof that it is trying to shift the blame to faithful believers:

"Over the past year, Madison's conflict has unfolded without a senior minister in place. The last one, Jimmy Sites, left last year. Contemporary worship gestures started surfacing during his tenure, reportedly originating in a Sunday school class for young parents.

Next, look at the statement:

However, when it comes to the worship practices of the early church, there is very little actually taught in the scriptures and historical documents.

Then by what authority would one singing, clapping, dancing, waving their hands and falling on their face on the floor be IMPROVIZED when the inventors know that they are offending those who understand that church does not DO WORSHIP with the body. Rather, the primary worship word in bot the Old and New Testaments is to SEEK or GIVE HEED to the Word of God.

Singing as such is not a direct command: rather, the command is to TEACH THAT WHICH HAS BEEN WRITTEN and the singing is a spiritual activity as the RESULT of hearing the Words of Christ.

Teaching the Word one to another is really the only thing clearly defined by a worship word. In the Old Testament the Hebrew word is:

Hebrew: Darash (h1875) daw-rash'; a prim. root; prop. to tread or frequent; usually to follow (for pursuit or search); by impl. to seek or ask; spec. to worship: - ask, * at all, care for, * diligently, inquire, make inquisition...

Greek: Zeto (h2212) dzay-teh'-o; of uncert. affin.; to seek (lit. or fig.); spec. (by Heb.) to worship (God), or (in a bad sense) to plot (against life): - be (go) about, desire, endeavour, enquire (for), require, (* will) seek (after, for, means). Comp. 4441.

Strange that we find so much material in the Bible and in church history. Most of it has to do with "what not to do" and music was the universal sign of worshiping the creature rather than the Creator.

This is the mantra: God didn't see fit to speak or was unable to instruct us but I can do it for you! God called the devil a liar because "he spoke on his own."

It is not necessary to interpret the universal Old Testament's association of music and listening to a "beautful song" as telling God: "We will not listen to you." God saw to it that this statement was made over and over.

Wherefore do
the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power? Job 21:7
Their seed is established in their sight with them,
and their offspring before their eyes. Job 21: 8
Their houses are safe from fear,
neither is the rod of God upon them. Job 21: 9
Their bull gendereth, and faileth not;
their cow calveth, and casteth not her calf. Job 21: 10
They send forth their little ones like a flock,
and their children dance. Job 21: 11
They take the timbrel and harp,
and rejoice at the sound of the organ. Job 21: 12
They spend their days in wealth,
and in a moment go down to the grave. Job 21: 13
Therefore they say unto God,
Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. Job 21: 14
What is the Almighty, that we should serve him?
and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him? Job 21: 15

You don't have to interpret all of the "music" passages: the operative word read in linear progression from left to right commands teaching or preaching the Inspired Word or Spirit one to another with the melody (always externally destructive) left in the heart or mind.

Therefore, there is no connection between music or dance (body motion or clapping) and the worship of a Spirit God in the entire Bible. No! blowing 120 trumpets in unison and strumming harps and shouting is NOT worship. Rather, the word SERVICE under the bondage of the Law literally meant HARD BONDAGE.

The common people met in assemblies (rarely translated synagogue) to hear the Word and give heed to it: this is both the Old and New Testament meaning of worship. Worship is not related to DOING rituals.

Therefore, "actually," the Bible both Old and New defines Worship as "giving heed" to God by giving heed to His Word. Sure, David played his harp and made himself vile (the meaning of praise) but that was not "worship." When David worshiped he meditated or made melody in his heart as he "spoke to himself" in Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. He even sang psalms in his bed.

Looking backward, because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai, God turned Israel over to "worship the starry host." They worshiped the creature rather than the Creator. Therefore, at the temple where they had turned David's animal-burning instrumental "sounders" into daily "worship teams" God warned them to:

Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The Lord is his name: Amos 5:8

Seek is: Darash (h1875) daw-rash'; a prim. root; prop. to tread or frequent; usually to follow (for pursuit or search); by impl. to seek or ask; spec. to worship: - ask, * at all, care for, * diligently, inquire, make inquisition...

Therefore, God said:

Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs;
for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. Amos 5:23

Why? Why because this was the mark of the prostitute both male and female who, in many ancient traditions, were representatives of Lucifer using theatrical performance to seduce people out of their money:

And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as Isaiah an harlot. Isaiah 23:15

Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. Isaiah 23:16 [Lucifer was bisexual wanting to be remembered as male]

And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years (Just as with Judah), that the Lord will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms (ecumenical!) of the world upon the face of the earth. Isaiah 23:17

And her merchandise and her hire shall be holiness to the Lord: it shall not be treasured nor laid up; for her merchandise shall be for them that dwell before the Lord, to eat sufficiently, and for durable clothing. Isaiah 23:18

Even though the turned over theatrical performers are made to "stand in the holy place" which in church architecture is the "area of the liturgy" they violated the Law of God Who said:

Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God. Deut 23:18

Keleb (h3611) keh'leb; from an unused root mean. to yelp, or else to attack; a dog; hence by euphemism a male prostitute: - dog.

These were the very people who would try to "triumph over" Lord Jesus with "musical instruments and making a joyful noise before the Lord" which was the Army'' battle cry

For dogs have compassed me: the assembly (FAMILY) of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. Ps.22:16

I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me Psalm 22:17

They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. Psalm 22:18

But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me. Psalm 22:19

Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power (open hand) of the dog. Psalm 22:20

They were murderous because Jesus and John were not of their "type.."

But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings houses (family). Mt.11:8

Malakos (g3120) mal-ak-os'; of uncert. affin.; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); fig. a catamite: - effeminate, soft.

However, they are rejected along with sorcerers who used musical devices to "speak for the demons" and idolaters who did likewise.

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev 22:15

A liar repudiates Christ's Words and makes up his own:

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Jn.8:44

For this reason, people are deliberatelly scattered abroad when they violate God's will:

BEHOLD, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. Isaiah 24:1

We know that the earliest history shows that singing Biblical material was the only "musical" practice. And since harmony as we know it did not exist, this would have been "speaking one to another." Church was still synagogue or school so we will not find any satisfying "liturgy" but we still have the Biblical text. We also have the universal condemnation of music by the church fathers. If you can believe that the Bible and history is silent then I have a vertical lot I would like to sell you: tree covered, waterfall and all.

The word for worship used int he Old Testament in the legal sense means to "be a bondservant." The "musicians" were straw bosses to force your face into the ground during animal burning time. Or, as God predicted, they would take your flocks, tithes, sons and daughters and force them into slave labor using the "musicians" as slave drivers to build the temple.

We are admonished to do things in an orderly way however nowhere in the Bible do we have a "thus sayeth the Lord" on how to conduct worship in our assemblies. More appropriately we do have instruction on how to worship on a 7 x 24 basis. We have to look in many places in the scriptures to determine the elements of corporate worship and draw from inference not making scriptures to be "proof texts" which are really not.

Historically, worship in the church has been evolving and especially so during the last 200 years. If you will check the biblical historians that specialize in the history of the restoration movement in America (churches of Christ, Christian church and Disciples of Christ), you will find that worship traditions and practices were different 200 years ago and have been continually evolving.


The reformation movement which John Calvin called a restoration movement always sought to define the work and worship of the Church by the commands and examples of the New Testament.

The Restoration Movement did not EVOLVE anything. Rather, they sought to conform the church to the New Testament examples. Since the New Testament said nothing about music, neither Calvin nor Campbell had to remove music from the church.

Jesus said that a Spirit God only LOOKS for worship in the spirit which is our mind (nous). Our mind in the new holy place (naos). The spirit as PLACE replaced Gerezim or Jerusalem or Nashville as PLACE. That worship consists only of giving heed to God by giving heed to His words. We prove ourselves children of Satan, according to Jesus, when we give heed to the singer-clappers and to their words.

It is clear that worship defined in the pagan, ritualistic sense always "evolves." However, the primary "WORSHIP" word in both the Old and New Testament related to the direct command from Paul to Timothy: "Give attendance to the public reading of the Word, to doctrine to exhortation." Worship is in the PLACE of "spirit" or mind (nous) which is the only holy place (naos) Jesus said that the Father will even look for us. When we observe the Lord's Supper we "give heed" to the historical event and show it forth as a teaching-reminding effort. When we read the word we give heed to God's words and not ours. We worship whom or what we "give attendance." If we are giving attendance to the musical worship team and their songs then we are worshiping the performers and not God. Like the synagogue, the church was school and not "pagan worship center."

We have Paul stating many times how the church assembly or synagogue (school) was to edify or educate. The "singing" passages are not related to "music" but define the synagogue method of teaching the Bible. Paul's use of the Greek excludes external melody which is related to the SOP Jesus fed Judas and to "grinding the enemy into fine powder." If "melody" universally speaks of a pagan or destructive practice we need no law which says: "Thou shalt not attack they brethren with they singing arrow from thy twanging bowstring." Nor, do we have to be told: "Thou shalt not make a musical instrument out of thy sister by plucking out her hair and making it 'sing.'"

Not fair to group all things and again "music" is one of the clearest taught practice in the entire Bible. It never had anything to do with spiritual worship and everything to do with pagan worship, prostitution or the "like the nations" worship Israel's ELDERS demanded and which God granted to send them on their way to captivity and death they had earned by their musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

How glorious you were, O Elijah, in your wondrous deeds! And who has the right to boast which you have? Ecclesiasticus 48:4.

You who raised a corpse from death and from Hades, by the word of the Most High; Ecclesiasticus 48: 5.

who brought kings down to destruction, and famous men from their beds; Ecclesiasticus 48: 6.

who heard rebuke at Sinai and judgments of vengeance at Horeb; Ecclesiasticus 48: 7.

who anointed kings to inflict retribution,

and prophets to succeed you. Ecclesiasticus 48: 8.

The word "afflict" is associated with antiphonal singing with instruments. The war chant afflicted the enemy into cowardice because you boasted that "my god can defeat your god." The Livitical instrumentalists (not musicians) were always under the king and commanders of the army: they were warrior musicial afflicters:

O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help. Hosea 13:9

I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes? Hosea 13:10

I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took him away in my wrath. Hosea 13:11

The preacher-educational push in Nashville is that the Bible has evolved so radically that there are only seven facts about Jesus which has not "evolved" itself out of existance except as a resource for constructing our own "narrative" and among a growing number "be our own Christ."

The "evolution" of worship truly got its emotional dissociation during the witchcraft craze. Then, and now, this was and is the product of preachers protecting their ill-gotten turf.

The First Great American Awakening was pushed over the edge by George Whitefield. George, like our own performers, had been trained in the theater. He blasted the theater but used theatrical preaching to manipulate people into temporary schizeophrenis. Not even then would old George go beyond the pale and use instruments or secular songs.

The Second Great American Awakening came into full possession of the methodology and voodoo-based black oppression music. By blending it with "christian" hymns with a hillbilly twang they discovered that you could manipulate people into a charismatic fit: swaying, hand clapping etc. This could be sold as "the work of the Holy Spirit." But it was an unholy spirit of competition.

Still, none of the non-Catholic type denominations would have dared used instruments. So, this is the evolution but the Word of God did not have an EXPIRED IN 1800 IN FRONTIER AMERICAN label.

The evolution was in organizing the Sectarian Instrumental and Choir wing of the church. However, much of this came out of the Christian Church out of Americal Methodism out of Anglicanism. This was the "high church" view that men (elders) have the authority to fill in the time-dependant blanks God overlooked. However, even Anglicans never got a chance to reject the Catholic High Church view of clergy because Queen Elizabeth vetoed their plan.

For example, Alexander Campbell thought that the use of written music in Christian worship was a sin and a hindrance. He used only a book of psalms and poems. It is for certain the 1sst century church did not have song books yet we use all kinds of songbooks today. The early church sang from the heart and the scripture. In 1 Corinthians, Paul said; If anyone has as song, let him sing it meaning that if a person brought a new song to worship, that he should sing it to the congregation - who knows - he may have sang solo, duet, in a quartet, formed a praise team or a choir.

Just confusing the facts: you could identify everything in "non-instrumental" churches as wrong or evil but that would not change a jot or tittle about "music as worship" which is the best documented pagan practice in the history of religion. Only those who don't like to read but like to body worship could have escaped the abundant history.

Paul said that if everyone prophesied then everyone would be edified. Prophesying by one who is not inspired is to READ THE WORD and end it with: "Thus saith the Lord." This means that the Lord speaks in the way the Lord intends to speak to those who are not prophets.

However, among the Corinthians:

How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation.

Let all things be done unto edifying. 1Co.14:26

Paul could speak in tongues or the minor dialects but he would NOT DO SO IN CHURCH. Therefore, Paul did not give permission to speak in one's own minor dialect when everyone knew Greek.

Therefore, by the same verse he does not give permission to sing their own song because he always prescribes "that which is written" as the only teaching resource.

Therefore, everything WHICH IS DONE in the public assembly MUST be for edification: tongues and self-composed poems do not edify and therefore are not commanded.

The Presbyterians which influenced the Campbells use the Psaltery or psalms only and did not use instruments. That was because there is a direct command to use "that which is written" (Rom 15), the Spirit (Eph 5) or the Word of Christ (Col. 3).

There are also all kinds of Bibles also.

Well, we know something about Restoration Movement History. Alexander understood the Bible and refused to become a "pastor." However, he made his living by marrying well and publishing. When he published his first book of SONGS it had no notes. They used one of five tunes to sing all of them. However, his competition took these songs and put notes to them. Therefore, this was not evolution but commercialization of religion. The publishers, and not God, have made all of the songs sung in almost all of the churches: "if I can compose your songs it matters not who preaches the sermons."

The direct command is that we "teach" the Biblical Text and there is no immediate command to "sing." The DIRECT COMMAND is to use "that which is written." Therefore, Alexander Campbell simply did not grasp that singing was not an act of worship but an act of EDUCATION. Paul said it to the Romans just as He said it to others:

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Rom 15:4

Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: Rom 15:5

That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 15:6

There certainly is no more "musical" concept in the Bible than in teaching a Physics class. We need no legalism which says: "Thou shalt not entertain my class with they team whist I am teaching Physics." We would just call the cops and we doubt NOT that a Holy God will do no less. Singing in the modern style is a concession but it often leades to self-composed praise songs so that teaching the Bible in song is totally lost.

No, the Corinthians were not commanded to do any of these.

Pavoratti comes to our congregation as says: "I see that all of you have a song and that you are all singing opera." Now, we are informed enough about Paul's use of irony that we don't go home and tell mother: "Pavoratti says that I sing opera." Like Paul in 1 Cor 12, as a Pavoratti would say, "but you don't ALL have the talent, do you!" Now, this is an insult and not a legalistic pattern. The CORE gospel was also an insult to eternally carnal people.

Paul said that these songs came out of their own "spirit" or mind, that they were speaking to god (generic) when they ought to be listening, and that this was just speaking into the air. He condemns utterly those who would "instruct God" or be His counselor. A bit of background grasps that the "just out of pagans" were prone to worship the goddes of the Air.

But if all prophesy (teach the word saying "thus saith the Lord"), and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 1 Cor 14:24

And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. 1 Cor 14:25

"But what do we find with you" is not a command but ridicule:

How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. (teaching) 1 Cor 14:26

"Doctrines" and "essential practices" are not within the arena of "authority" for the elders: they do not compose their own songs, their own doctrines, speaking in tongues (complex singing and instrument) and have a revelation from God.

Paul didn't say "do all of these things." He said, "do all that you do be instructive." This is exactly the instructions in the other "singing" passages:

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,

singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. Col 3:16

If your body begins to rock and you begin to clap your hands you are engaged in "body worship."

When the Greeks read something in the Greek language their speech patterns were called "singing." The normal inflection of the voice as was cantillation among the Hebrews meant that "singing" was "reading like a schoolboy reads the hallel."

"These musical fragments show that Greek music was predominantly vocal, although instrumental pieces were sometimes presented.

"The music was homophonic; i.e., it consisted of single melodic lines.

"Ancient Greek was a pitched language, so melody had to be an outgrowth of the natural inflections of the spoken language. [That was "speaking" one to another and in the synagogue it would be called cantillation or chanting: speaking in an elevated voice]

"In early Christian times the Gnostics used the Greek scale in their incantations, and Byzantium adopted the Greek modes.

Paul then goes on to demand that if anyone does any of these things believing that they are inspired (give God the credit for my inspired songs) they would have to have a monitor: an interpreter to agree that he was inspired. But they were all singing THEIR song and teaching THEIR doctrne and making THEIR revelation: but Paul would say, "but you don't all have a gift, DO YOU?

So, what do we have? We have the Apostle Paul say that even if one who believes themselves to be inspired have no authority to speak out of their own spirit unless they are willing to be questioned and censured. Elders do not rise above that Authority. Jesus claimed that He only spoke what He heard from the Father. Therefore when people come to believe that elders are above questioning it is no wonder that they are compared to "celestial beings."

Paul prescribed the command of Christ that our teaching and praying be "in spirit and in truth."

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 1Co.14:15

This is parallel to :

That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 15:6

Paul's universal demand is: "Teach or preach the revealed Words of Christ, sing and make melody in the heart." That means singing in the spirit along with speaking or singing the Words of Christ.

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit (The Word); Eph 5:18

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Eph 5:19

All of these in the Septuagint are Biblical Psalms and not self-composed songs.

You might as well compose YOUR OWN BIBLE as to compose your own song book.

This meets Jesus' demand for worship "in spirit and in truth." Choirs singing human compositions violate this direct command. Therefore, it will do no good to pretend to Madison that God has no will in the way we are to worship. Therefore, you have to trust yourself to elders who trust themselves to theatrical performers who effeminize and weaken the church.

Mature members are not hard hearted: they simply are higly offended when the elders present them with performance preaching or singing which "afflicts" the masculine nature of most males.

Before and during the Restoration Movement, the "musical" practices within the Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians and Congregationalists universally repudiated "music" as a device of worship until just before and following the Civil war. The changes did not happen with any attempt to justify it by the Bible until 1878. Then, as now, the musical thrust was a seeker after those with money. Following the civil war, the northern cities were very wealthy and began to compete with one another for "crowds" to pay for the new mega-churches.

The Catholic Encyclopedia in the 1913 edition agrees with the non-instrumental or non performance vie.

All of the church fathers understood that music was not a "worship" word in the Bible and simply had no role to play in the church which was synagogue or school and not a pagan "worship center."

All of the protestant reformers repudiated music for the same reason some of us still do.

There is not now nor ever has there been a lack of information or Biblical evidence that one cannot do "in spirit" or in the mind devotion to God by stimulating the external, carnal sense. When the body moves as a result of "music" then the performance is inducing the impulse of "fight, flight or sex." Many mature, masculine members flee, most endure the impulse of "sex" and a few brave souls are stirred to fight. Yes, musical performance can and does induce violence.

Our spirit worships God's Holy Spirit and 'you' can have no part of my worship. Ample church history notes singing the inspired Biblical material but this was never "music" which in the Greek world was a secular, carnal and usually prostitute role.

And if you are so addicted to getting kicks out of assigning worship to that one hour one Sunday then you have no authority to define that as the exclusive place and method of worship which is so addictive that you will agree to sowing discord and offending these little ones and 'stealing church houses of widows' just like the Pharisees.

Again we quote:

However, when it comes to the worship practices of the early church, there is very little actually taught in the scriptures and historical documents.

But aren't we ever so lucky that the Bible is filled with negative associations between music and worship: if God approved of music as worship, why would He associate it with the pagan idolatry at Mount Sinai, telling God I will not listen to you, comparing those who come to hear the beautiful voice as treating God like a prostitute, associating instrumental noise only to burning sacrifices in the temple in Jerusalem, attributing the king/queen of Tyre the qualities of Lucifer who used music in a commercial/religious seeker system, said that the king/queen of Babylon would rot on a bed of maggots along with his/her harps, prophesying that the Judas attack would be a vocal and instrumental attack, having Jesus attacked by the pipers and singers, having Jesus drive away the "musical mourning team," having Paul define-away "music" in teaching and having John predict of the end-time Babylon Harlot and her commercial seeker system with musicians and instruments?

If music is God ordained to be the way Spirit is worshiped with the "works of human hands" why is His Spirit association 100% with beyond-redemption experiences in Israel and then Judah? Why would He not give us just one hint that: "Hay, I just love musicians trying to seduce Me." Or why is music never associated with an ethos or power to make people better? Or why does He endanger His own gift by associating it with warfare, prostitution and the "like the nations" worship at the temple?

Or why would He outlaw the "playing of trumpets and making a joyful noise before the Lord" when the nation was assembled? These assemblies were only for instruction and the trumpets were used like church bells but they were not used for "worship."

Aren't we lucky to have lots of historical documents which do not detail liturgy because there was none. However, they define Paul's direct command as the way to 'teach and preach' to those without their own copy of the Bible. And so lucky that they all universally condemn using the instruments of the pagan theatrical crowd and prostitutes even in their secular parties and totally repudiate them "while in church."

If you have dissociated your mind by replacing Truth with music, you may believe that there is no evidence. That is just wishful thinking and slight of hand. If you are interested in what the church Fathers said about "music as worship" just click here: but turn off the CCM blasting away your eardrums because you CANNOT learn and listen at the same time.

CHANGE - Is being a change agent a bad thing?

Think about it. It is evident that the restoration movement has been about change. Not change for change's sake but for the sake of coming closer to GOD in the worship of him. Our worship is not the only thing that has changed. So has the understanding of our faith and its practices.

During the first 150 years of our movement, it was unthinkable to care for orphans and widows outside the home. Not in a children's home or Golden Age Village. We at Madison pioneered this change when it was splitting the church. 50 years ago - it was unthinkable to have a kitchen in the church building - but we pioneered it and turned into "meals on wheels" and Room in the Inn and modern day "all day preaching and singing on the grounds".

The new word is not "change" but innovating and improvising.

You strum away on your harps like David and improvise on musical instruments. Amos 6:5

"Doubtless they sounded harmoniously in their own ears; but it reached no further. Their melody, like much Church-music, was for itself, and ended in itself. 'Let Christian chanters learn hence, not to set the whole devotion of Psalmody in a good voice, subtelty of modulation and rapid intonation, quavering like birds, to tickle the ears of the curious, take them off to themselves and away from prayer, lest they hear from God." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 300)

"That chant to the voice of the lyre, accompanying the voice of the lyre with the human voice, giving vocal expression and utterance to what the instrumental music spoke without words. The word, which Amos alone uses in this one place, describing probably 'a hurried flow of unmeaning, unconsidered words, in which the rhythm of words and music was everything, the sense, nothing; much like most glees. The E.M. 'quaver' has also some foundation in the root, but does not suit the idiom so well, which expresses that the act was something done to the voice of the lyre, accompanying the music, not altering the music itself." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

Modern choir singing is called "organum" or after the pipe organ. A well trained team can become a vocal band. Therefore, to claim not to be instrumental but to add the human equivalent is just legaleze like the Pope's invention of A Cappella.

The American Restoration Movement changed almost nothing in their worship: didn't have to, no one was so gross as to add choirs and instruments to their spiritual worship. They explicitely repudiated that form of singing designed to mentally dissociate people into coming to the mourning bench to get their salvation!

The goal was not to come closer to God but to come closer to the Bible! Like David the musician, they didn't feel that God was lost or "up there" so that our musical worship team must "lead you into the presence of God."

Perhaps we are reading the wrong history. Normally orphans were cared for in an intimate, personal way which would not destroy the peron's self-worth. History did not await Madison in 1950 to invent orphan homes. People always took care of one another before Pot Luck Paula had not turned "church" into Pot Belly Ken. Before then, churches believed Christ and honored Christ by "going into all the world to preach the gospel." Paul was not conserned with orphan homes but preaching the gospel. He was not sent to form orphan homes but to preach. That was some other person's "job description." Indeed, Phoebe seems to have been a Greek official: she was Agape, Welcome Wagon, House Hunter, Job Seeker and whatever it took as an agent of the Government to help foreigners get settled down.

We remember supporting orphans before Madison was born. So, we were not evil just because "church" was for education and honoring Christ rather than entertaining and worshiping the team.

When that was done the early churches ALWAYS took care of widows and orphans: long before Madison church of Christ. The earliest secular history about the "assembly" was that they took up collections for the needy and not for the rich and famous who refused to move on: they gave even one claiming to be an apostle only two or three days and then sent him on or found him a job. The Widow in Deed is confused with the deaconess but she was put on the church rolls for help. Now, we steal the widow's church houses and send them out into the cold looking for a new one afte spending their lives building Madison only to be told that "we are waiting for you to die so we can take over."

But, I know where the writer is heading. It is predictable to identify the old "traditional" worship service with not caring for widows and orphans. Why, one Nashville fellow equates our view about music to fire bombing abortion clinics or chasing down a fur-wearing lady and doing her in. However, Madison did its work when it was manned by elders rather than what Lipscomb called the "youngers." This was before the belly-button-examining, fur-licking, Baby Boomers (Infantile Drummers) decided that they were God's ordained agents to change church into "venue for rock and role" (that "f" word). They even believe that their songs are more inspired than God's songs.

This is why it is so unthinkable that we can believe that a change in worship form (not elements) can get us all bent out of shape. It is safe to believe that our dear brother Ira North, would say to the spirited worship, as he always did - "Isn't that great, Isn't that wonderful". How soon we forget.

One pro-instrumentalists suggests that the bread is still the bread whether it is on a plate or not: the plate does not change the FORM of the elements. That's so true. However, the bread is still bread if it is served up on a cow chip. See the difference? No?

Ira North would not approve of those now telling their seniors: "It is corban." It is dedicated to the Lord. We just have to worship our bodies. Sorry about that but when the Voodoo drums (singers) began to beat then I have to get on my feet and sorry it offends you old lady but soon you will be dead and we can do it our ways."

They fawn over the "leaders" which one e-mali equates to "celestial beings" but have no respect for the true elders male and female who are foced out in the cold if they do not want to be offended.

Ira was Biblically literate and it is so unthinkable that one would try to resurrect him to get his approval for choirs, mediating teams, charismatic worship and, not far off, a rock and roll band just like the Saddle Backers. Ira would have known that "music" is not an operative, worship word in the entire Bible. Is music wrong? Of course not. However, in a "religious" sense "Music, sex and perverted sex" were locked-at-the hip components in paganism.

You cannot do music or listen to music without telling Christ: "Just for the moment I don't want to follow you into suffering. I want to get my fix from musicians pulling tricks." (Well, the Classics and church fathers knew that.)

Alexander the oracle Monger knew that you could sing and toot the flute (vocal band equivalent) and seduce the "fatheads and simpletons." And "only females and the effeminate" fell into musical breakdowns. Read it, you will find out how music is always used to manipulate weak or immature minds.

Musical Prophesying - Witchcraft - Making Souls Fly

To refer to worship that calls us to participate with our whole body and soul, "holy entertainment" is to be intellectually dishonest in the worst way.

That is the Saddleback term. Jesus said that God only looks for worship in the spirit or mind: he doesn't care how many "Lord, Lords" you say as you prophesy (the meaning of music and singing). Your body is carnal and is SUPPOSED to be considered dead (Rom 12) and burned up on the altar before your spirit can even approach God. If you are worshiping with your body then you are not worshiping IN SPIRIT.

"Singing served as a means of inducing ecstatic prophecy (speaking in tongues).

Thus the essential relationship between music and prophecy can be clearly seen.

This relationship also explains why the expression for "making music" and "prophesying" was often identical in the ancient tongues. origen contra celsum 8.67.

The Hebrew word Naba signifies not only "to prophesy" but also "to make music." (Quasten, Johannes, Music and Worship in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 39)

Therefore, if you are involved in BODY WORSHIP with music, God will say, "I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOUR NAME."

Your spiritual forefathers and foremothers in the seeker systems don't hesitate to call it entertainment. If your body moves it is because you are under attack by deliberate inducers of endorphins and other junk called "morphine within." Harmony induces pain, pain induces endorphins, endorphins mask pain, leave some left over to be PEDDLED as "spirituality." Paul said that the body and spirit are eternally in conflict: if your body "worships" then you have been dissociated and you are following those "who make souls fly." See how soul and body hunters are condemned by God as soothsayers or enchanters or diviners:

Paul spoke directly to the "musical instruments" which were brass, hi-tek versions of the familiar spirit of the witch of Endor. Her's was a hollow, empty wineskin. The same concept defines the nebel or harp by which one spoke the voice of the angels or departed souls (demons) to get a message.

The Corinthians honored these witches because the uncovered prophesiers (11:5) came out of such practices which hunted souls to make them fly to have the gods speak to them. However, Paul would say: "Even, if I could speak the voice of angels" I would be identical to the empty brass echo chambers and cymbals who could "speak to you from the gods" but brass as a musical instrument cannot love you:

THOUGH I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1 Cor 13:1

False prophesying out of a person's own spirit (Paul to Corinth) was always musical. Therefore, the women were especially good at composing "old wives tales" or magical incantation called hymns. Furthermore, Jesus identified the Devil as a liar where liar is defined as "speaking on his own."

Singing their own songs which had no rational meaning was speaking in tongues. It has been said that if women were excluded from speaking in tongues there would be no speaking in tongues. And if women and the effeminate were excluded from "standing in the holy place" there would be no music called "worship."

Ezekiel who in chapter 33 has God identifying those seeking musical performance as treating Him like a prostitute also spoke to the women.

Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them, Eze 13:17

And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Woe to the women that sew pillows (seductive suggestion) to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls

Will ye hunt the souls of my people, (soul Seekers)

and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you? Eze.13:18

Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows (clothing to suggest after-hours free time), wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly (lift up), and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly. Eze 13:20

Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life: Eze 13:22

Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the Lord. Eze 13:23

Rubel Shelly teaches that the musical team can "lead the worshipers into the presence of God" and the Vineyard look-alike says that the goal is to reach a climax with God. This repudiates Christ as the One and Only Mediator and disgusts a holy God who will spit you out of His mouth.

Matthew Henry notes:

3. They kept people in awe, and terrified them with their pretensions: "You hunt the souls of my people (v. 18), hunt them to make them flee (v. 20), hunt them into gardens (so the margin reads it);

you use all the arts you have
to court or compel them into those places
where you deliver your pretended predictions,

or you have got such an influence upon them that you make them do just as you would have them to do, and tyrannise over them.''

"It was indeed the people's fault that they did regard them,

but it was their fault by lies and falsehoods to command that regard;
they pretended to save the souls alive that came to them, v. 18.

If they would but be hearers of them, and contributors to them, they might be sure of salvation;

thus they beguiled unstable souls that had a concern about salvation as their end but did not rightly understand the way, and therefore hearkened to those who were most confident in promising it to them.

But will you pretend to save souls, or secure salvation to your party?'' Those are justly suspected that make such pretensions.

But Jesus said that God only SEEKS those who worship "in spirit and in truth." Now, that does not mean enthusiastically without regard to the Truth. The "spirit" is the PLACE where God looks for us. He cannot be seduced in a "knowing" way by our BODIES. This was always the claim of king/queen of Tyre who was the agent of Lucifer and called "the harp-playing prostitute." Ezekiel 33 has God equating those who come to listen to "a beautiful voice" as coming to Him like they came to their prostitute priests.

Michal, David's faithful defender, found something wrong with it. David "rose up to play" using the same words as when Israel rose up to play in musical idolatry around the golden calf. David, bless him, believed that he had God in a box. He told Michal that he was happy because the slave girls (camp followers) praised him and he would "make himself even more vile." That is the meaning of Davids praise, Halal, related to "lucifer."

The Jewish people had NEVER worshiped God with singing, instruments, dancing or hand clapping. Worship to the Jews was "bowing down" or "hard bondage." And this was mostly fulfilled by the tribe of Levi. The synagogue had never "worshiped" by singing, playing, dancing or clapping hands." These are practices of the culture and never "acts of worship."

There was never any "music" in the Jewish "pattern" of worship. Pagans knew that music and cultic prostitution went together and therefore neve seduced the "elders" into getting us a musical worship team so we can worship THEM.

Jesus spoke brutally of music but too deep for now.

Paul commanded "in the heart" melody which, by the definition of Psalmos, excludes any other "instrument."

Why, even the trees praised, sang and clapped their hands. But Jesus said that the truth had been spoken in parables "from the foundation of the world" to hide it from those who cared nothing for truth.

Again, Rubel Shelly of Woodmont Hills will actually lead you into the presence of God

Position Title: Worship Facilitation Minister (Link mercifully removed)

"Work with the worship planning committee, the preaching minister and worship presentation groups (music, drama and technical) to facilitate group worship experiences which will help bring worshipers into the presence of God.

That means to "Make Souls Fly" and such identification was the eternal way to capture souls and give them wings.

Jesus told us, "If we won't praise His name, the very rocks and stones will cry out".

Amos and Isaiah connected musical worship with total ignorance of the Word of God. This caused the people to hunger and thirst for the Word and be taken into captivity and death: captives were always led into captivity to the beat of musical PRAISE which was to make them seem vile and as they CLAPPED their hands in contempt.

No, He told those who opposed Him but He did not leave this as a pattern. These people don't sing "praise the lord, praise the lord" or "lord, lord." Rather, praise is to tell the story of what they know.

Lots of people praised God but I don't think that they ever held a PRAISE RITUAL. wouldn't that be legalistic?

And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen; Luke 19:37

Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest. Lu 19:38

Rejoice is: Chairo (g5463) khah'ee-ro; a prim. verb; to be "cheer"ful, i.e. calmly happy or well-off; impers. espec. as salutation (on meeting or parting), be well: - farewell, be glad, God speed, greeting, hail, joy (-fully), rejoice

Cry Out: Krazo (g2896) krad'-zo; a prim. verb; prop. to "croak" (as a raven) or scream, i.e. (gen.) to call aloud (shriek, exclaim, intreat): - cry (out).

And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness for in one hour is she made desolate. Re.18:19

And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Rev 18:22

Praise means to "tell what you know about the Bible or for miracles performed by Jesus. It does not mean to cry out "lord, lord." We praise Johnny by telling abut his good grade. We praise God by telling people what God has said in His Word. We praise Jesus by telling how He raised the Dead. We don't praise self or the praise leader.

These people were not in a "Corporate Worship" or "Plenary Session" as those who try to intruduce instruments into "non plenatry sessions."

All of the legalistic "patterns" for charismatic (musical) worship are lifted from the private activities of people. If you see Jesus performing a miracle then it is proper to tell everyone: "I just saw Jesus raise the dead." However, the praise must have some object or activity to laud.

Praise means to "tell what you know about the Bible or for miracles performed by Jesus. It does not mean to cry out "lord, lord." We praise Johnny by telling abut his good grade. We praise God by telling people what God has said in His Word. We praise Jesus by telling how He raised the Dead. We don't praise self or the praise leader.

These people were not in a "Corporate Worship" or "Plenary Session."

Clapping of our hands, raising our hands in worship, kneeling in prayer are all very biblical. If we want to be really intellectually true to restoring New Testament worship, we must know and admit that it's very pattern and practices came from the influence of Jewish worship.

It was the only thing that early believers had for a pattern. Timothy in his writings talks about how right it is for holy hands to be lifted. The Jewish people were very demonstrative in their worship.

Not only did they clap their hands, they even danced. NO, we are not saying we should dance (like David) although we would fail to find anything wrong with it, it is just not for us.

No, the Jews never "worshiped" by clapping their hands: just some more death-dealing ignorance of the Word. But, we will show you where Madison gets its charismatic worship MOTHER from:

"Often this intimacy causes us to meditate, even as we are singing, on our relationship with the Lord. Sometimes we recall vows we have made before our God. God might call to our mind disharmony or failure in our life, thus confession of sin is involved. Tears may flow as we see our disharmony but his harmony; our limitations but his unlimited possibilities. This phase in which we have been wakened to his presence is called expression. Carol Wimber

Physical and emotional expression in worship can result in dance and body movement.

The Jewish people never worshiped with "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment." No "musical praise team" ever led them into the presence of God. The common people's congregation was excluded from the temple during the animal burning music which is not called music but a great crashing noise. The people if incidentially present would be put "outside the camp." That is where Jesus meets believers.

It is true that the church was almost identical to the Jewish Synagogue. The synagogue was a school and not a pagan worship center. You don't sing, clap, dance and fall in the floor in Physics class or the teacher will call the mental institution to come get you.

The primary effort of the non-institutionalized synagogue was as a center for reading the Biblical Text and explaining those parts which needed to be "dialoged" but not preached. Jesus stood up to read the Scriptures and had the common decency to sit down and dialog with the people. There WAS NO PRAISE SERVICE IN THE SYNAGOGUE. The church added the Lord's Supper to that "school" and history shows that it was a private ceremony for members and not a show and tell with stimulators trying to massage the crowd into a "spiritual" mood.

Timothy restricted the lifting of hands to the HOLY MALE LEADERS. Lifting hands meant to put your elbows at your waist, extend your hands outward with palms upward as if "reading" that which you are reciting as prayers. "Praying" was hymning and most often meant reciting some poetic prayer material from the Text. Neither the prayers or "songs" were composed by human "inspiration."

Only the high priest was allowed to lift his hand up to his shoulders. On the other hand, those who waved their hands over their heads or clapped their hands were identified as unruly females or effeminate males. The punch line is HOLY and not "hands."

As we will see under what was always called the Holy Whore concept, women were not so much legally silenced as this was a way to identify those still-pagan women who exercised SEXUAL AUTHORITY by removing themselves from the sedentary position.

We find it hard to clap our hands and lift them in worship for the same reasons and can only hope to grow to the point that we can worship GOD with our whole body and spirit, yes - lifting hands and clapping to the music- getting in the aisle and laying prostrate or bending knee to pray.

And MOTHER Carol taught us:

'At this time we also discovered that singing was not the only way to worship God. Because the word worship means literally to bow down, it is important that our bodies are involved in what our spirits are saying. In Scripture this is accomplished through bowing heads, lifting hands, kneeling, and even lying prostrate before God.

'A result of our worshipping and blessing God is being blessed by him. We don't worship God in order to get blessed, but we are blessed as we worship him.

He visits his people with manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

'Thus worship has a two-fold aspect: communication with God through the basic means of singing and praying, and communication from God through teaching and preaching the word, prophecy, exhortation, etc. We lift him up and exalt him, and as a result are drawn into his presence where he speaks to us.' Carol Wimber

Christian women are supposed to find it impossible to fall into a charismatic fit. Because it is music-induced it is a FIGHT impulse, a FLIGHT impulse or a SEXUAL real or pretend. this was the "authentia" or sexual and murderous impulse outlawed by Paul.

If the masculine component of the "synagogue" mind becomes hostile it is because music generates the FIGHT impulse or even unreasoning RAGE. Those who seduce the crowd with music understand fully well what they are attempting to do.

People have always believed that when their body begins to move under the mind-altering power of music that the "gods" or "Holy Spirit" was inside making them move. However, wine, sniffing poppy-seed incense or chewing laurel leaves to go insane and foam at the mouth worked just as well to fool both the fools and the foolers. [I have the laurel on my farm fenced off: just cannot stand charismatic deer out there prophesying].

"Restoration Churches" learned their practices of a "new style worship" with a "new style song book" from the Vineyard movement. Most "song book" publishers have followed suit with contemporary "christian" songs which are mushy sentimental, teach doctrinal error and create the endorphins which create or respond to the impulses of FIGHT, FLIGHT OR SEX.

In the classics, ordinary people not slaves or prostitutes were very reluctant to stand before a group and present a poem or song or play a piece on the harp (very uncooth to play and sing at the same time-you insult the poet). Therefore, when a respectable person rose up to public performance it was only because they were much or little out of their mind. Therefore, they were held to be inspired or they would not risk the ridicule expressed in hand clapping.

When you try to "bind flesh and spirit" together you are practicing an ancient fertility religion of sex or perverted sex. When your body starts pumping you are somewhat "charismatic" and somewhat charismatic is like somewhat pregnant:

Plato Ion 534a

[534a] just as the Corybantian worshippers

do not dance when in their senses,

so the lyric poets do not indite those fine songs in their senses,

but when they have started on the melody and rhythm they begin to be frantic, and it is under possession--as the bacchants are possessed, and not in their senses, when they draw honey and milk from the rivers--that the soul of the lyric poets does the same thing, by their own report. [Paul would see them Corinthians as MAD]

For the poets tell us, I believe, that the songs they bring us are the sweets they cull from honey-dropping founts [534b] in certain gardens and glades of the Muses--like the bees, and winging the air as these do. And what they tell is true.

For a poet is a light and winged and sacred thing, and

is unable ever to indite until he has been inspired and put out of his senses,

and his mind is no longer in him:

every man, whilst he retains possession of that,

is powerless to indite a verse or chant an oracle.

Seeing then that it is not by art that they compose and utter so many fine things about the deeds of men--

[Note: The Corybantes were priests of Cybele or Rhea, mother of Zeus and other Olympian gods, and she was worshipped with wild music and frenzied dancing which, like the bacchic revels or orgies of women in honor of Dionysus,

carried away the participants despite and beyond themselves. Cf. Eurip. Bacchae.]

[534c] as you do about Homer--but by a divine dispensation, each is able only to

compose that to which the Muse has stirred him,

this man dithyrambs, another laudatory odes, another dance-songs, another epic or else iambic verse;

but each is at fault in any other kind.

For not by art do they utter these things, but by divine influence; since, if they had fully learnt by art to speak on one kind of theme, they would know how to speak on all.

And for this reason god takes away the mind of these men

and uses them as his ministers,

just as he does soothsayers and godly seers,

[534d] in order that we who hear them may know that it is not they who utter these words of great price,

when they are out of their wits,

but that it is god himself who speaks and addresses us through them.

Sorry, but that might be an unholy spirit attacking your glands and nerve endings. I cannot judge but an ungodly musical team can make you do the same things. Science would say that you are momentarily dissociated. You are schizophrenic and lust to become "another person" because of some fatal lack in spiritual training or some other problem.

First, we should note again that the "music" term is not used of the people's "worship" of God at any time in the Bible.

Music is and ever has been the way to entertain or control people. If one wants to do these things as "acts of worship" in the privacy of their own homes that is their right. However, hand clapping and lifting hands (as in an "antenna") has no masculine use in the history of God's religion.

Hand clapping was always part of reveling and was normally restricted to the obscene except in a figurative sense.

Hand clapping in the Old Testament is often a way to show contempt. Even in the theater or early musical contests, hand clapping was to be outrageously cruel in showing contempt for the looser because most performance was a contest or "the idolatry of talent." Perhaps hand clapping is a way to show contempt for those who are Biblically literate--those you are waiting to just go away or DIE. They did that to Jesus. And it was part of the "bowing the knee to Baal" which involves "giving heed" to the musical performers.

Theatrical performers always had their organized "clappers." By beginning the clapping and body worship the friends affirmed the theatrical performance. The hand clapping is an act of voodoo worship by beating the "drums" or "tabering on the body." Women did that when they were being taken captive. Someone is making your soul fly and you rejoice with them on their broom.

Jesus took every legalistic proof-text out of our hands when He declared both a new PLACE and a new METHOD of worship: that place is in the spirit or human mind; the method is devotion or "giving heed" to the Spirit of Truth which is His Word (John 6:63).

Body worship is spiritual prostitution: attempting as in all ancient musical teams to "join the harem of the gods" who were always gender-neutral in appearance and talent.

Brothers - Open your mind to God's Word and to History.

We see nothing entertaining about these things in worship. As for the songs, we surely can find no fault there. 150 years ago, Amazing Grace was new - It was a bar song to which Newton penned a poem. 150 years ago -we did not have 4-part harmony in the songbooks. 150 years ago - we were all "One cuppers". Before air conditioning, we used a white tablecloth over the emblems and when we took it off- some people threw a fit.

Christianity is not a Broad Way!

You cannot justify one wrong at a stage 10 level by bringing up wrongs at a state 8 level. It is absolutely certain that these "tippy toes" into the form of music influenced by the tavern, houses or prostitution, slaves making fun of master and teaching sedition and a liberal dose of voodoo have allowed the word "music as worship" to creep in. If "music" is now allowed then the debate is over the form. By definition (and my engineering background) music stimulates every nerve in the body (yes, especially those nerves) and that is why it stimulates "fight, flight or sexual practices or fantasy." That is why it feels good and you come out smiling. The Vineyard movement fueling the new song books specificially claims that the next to last phase of worship is bringing the worshipers into God's presence to reach a CLIMAX. The last phase is "giving of substance" just like in the pagan temples where some Corinthian women once "prophesied."

However, none of the listed errors pit a "musical team" practicing the "idolatry of talent" and his songs against the "one another" teaching task giving attention to the Word of Christ or Spirit.

We were all one cuppers but not for a theological reason: TB in the area converted me. However, using "one cup" versus "two cups" or "many cups" is just a slick willie way to associate our 2,000 year old Biblical practice with things the writer now considers outrageous. Older homes always had the table spread with good non-perishables and covered by a white table cloth. It was a way to show honor to the guests to make a pot of coffee and pull out four differeent pies from under the protective cloth to keep the fly specks and dust off. Why would you fall so utterly that you would make fun of people who want to honor the Lord's "body and blood?"

But, now the musical worship performers have the Lord's Table moved to the foyer: out of sight, out of mind. This gives the swaying sister singers and little brother singers room to move about, wave their hands and "stand in the holy place claiming we are mediators between man and God."

So, once the body gets involved in "worship" it is totally consistent to make fun of the old folks. One of the merry band of men publically, at Jubilee 98, made fun of his own mother because they had taken her song book away so that the "team" could develop "the stage presence" without having everyone reading "tham words" and taking their eyes and minds off the theatrical performer. Their souls have been made to fly and they will never get them back.

I still like table cloths: I had a hard time convincing the "presider--put on the ticket to get him to attend"--not to baptize the communion elements with spit. But, we are assured that the elements are not changed by spit: only the form.

There is no change in culture which will obsolete the commanded practice of teaching the Word of God with the singing and melody in the heart. If you can replace that then you can agree witht he Post-Modern crew in Nashville, a city set on seven hills, that the Bible has been "filtered" so that we can teach anything we wish.

These "fit throwers" never had a Bible totally devoted to equating music to telling God: "I will not listen to your Words." Nor did they have the ancient documents which lumped "the authority of the elder, the power of music and the power of licking private parts." Nor, did they have a universal history of the church Fathers on their side.

So, lumping these things together is vastly dishonest.

We have to be intellectually honest and not call it "holy entertainment". As a matter of fact preachers have been billed as entertainment. Many people will come to church only to hear the preacher and proclaim what a great orator he is, or the funny stories he tells or he gets his points across well or they set there spell bound, not so much at GOD's word but the ability of the speaker. We are not saying that we don't need to hear GOD's word but are saying that it can come from singing, reading, sermons and people's everyday experience of GOD working in their lives.

Sounds good to me: let's call it "unholy entertainment." That is consistent with lots of history. It is a fact that the preacher is some kind of entertainment but it has no "worship" role in the Bible, in church history or in common sense when everyone has their own Bible. Preaching is rarely TEACHING the Word as it has been taught and therefore violates the letter and Spirit of direct commands along with the self-composed songs performed by "the idolatry of talent."

Honesty means admitting that the Nashville Laughingstock is charismatic and promotes "unholy entertainment" or the "Holy Spirit's Tavern" where one fills up the NEW WINESKIN.

God gave no office for an entertaining preacher. In fact, if you read Ephesians 4 which comes before Ephesians 5 and the "singing" passage you will discover that when God is pouring out His wrath the sure signal is that he makes the pretenders into BUFFONS.

Others would see the "act" as we see the tribalism of the deepest jungle or Western frontier:

"But ceremonial life gives opportunity

for personal expression to more than the small group of Singers.

Lay folk can show their skill in dancing and singing and in making drypaintings.

They can win plaudits (applause) for their adroitness in helping with the tricks and other 'vaudeville acts' on Mountain Top Way.

They can show off their good memory and oratorical skill in telling myths." (or stupid jokes, we might add) (Goldschmidt, Walter, Exploring the Ways of Mankind, p.515, Holt, Rinehart and Winston)

Kinsley, David R. The Sword and the Flute: Kali & Krsna: Dark Visions of the Terrible and the Sublime in Hindu Mythology. Berkeley: U of California P, 1975.

"A clown would stroll in with his livid, floured face, seat himself on the railing, and produce from his bulky pocket a flute which he began to play. At once the ringmaster appeared and intimated to him that here one could not play. The clown, unperturbed, stalked over to another place and stated again. But now the ringmaster walked up angrily and snatched his melodious toy from him. The clown gone, and plunging his hand into his fathomless pocket produced another flute and from it another melody. But alas, inexorably, here came the ringmaster again, and from it another melody. But alas, inexorably, here came the ringmaster again, and again despoiled him of his flute. Now the clown's pocket turned into an inexhaustible magic box from which proceeded, one after another, new musical instruments of all kinds, clear and gay or sweet and melancholy. The music over ruled the veto of destiny and filled the entire space, imparting to all of us with its impetuous, invincible bounty a feeling of exultation, as thought a torrent of strange energies had sprung from the dauntless melody the clown blew on his flute as he sat on the railing of the circus.

Later I thought of this clown of the flute as a grotesque modern form of the great god Pan of the forest whom the Greeks worshipped as the symbol of cosmic vitality--serene, goat-footed Pan who plays the sacred syrinx (pan pipes) in the sinking dusk and with its magic sound evokes an echo in all things: leaves and fountains shiver, the stars begin to tremble, and the shaggy goats dance at the edge of the grove. (qtd. in Kinsley 33, n. 49)

Plato Laws:

Cleinias I think so too, if drinking were regulated as you propose.

Athenian There is a tradition or story, which has somehow crept about the world,

that Dionysus was robbed of his wits by his stepmother Hera,

and that out of revenge he inspires Bacchic furies and dancing madnesses in others; for which reason he gave men wine.

Such traditions concerning the gods I leave to those who think that they may be safely uttered; I only know that no animal at birth is mature or perfect in intelligence; and in the intermediate period,

in which he has not yet acquired his own proper sense, he rages and roars without rhyme or reason;

and when he has once got on his legs he jumps about without rhyme or reason; and this, as you will remember,

has been already said by us to be the origin of music and gymnastic.

If you sing, sway (dance) and clap and get a "high" which you hallucinate to be "spiritual" then you are being entertained and it would not matter what the entertainer sings. The "praise songs" are often the exercise of female authority, authentia, which is both erotic and murderous--yes, killing spirits or making them fly: God will get the Soul Seekers who are witches and not evangelists.

Then who says that the Bible gives a dole to any "performance preacher?" Jesus "sent them out" and Paul gave them an "office" only in the sense of evangelizing. The "music" problem at Madison is a preacher, pomp and programs problem. Mega churches and mega programs and yes, entertainment, is a way for those "seeing godliness as a means of financial gain" (i.e. easy occupation) as they steal the human energy and financial support from the honest evangelist who would be happy to work outside of the little Nashville circle and the little Dallas circle. Many would love to go into the mission fields but you contemplate your belly button, sing, clap, and prove that you have been seduced and suck all of God's resources out of the hands of honest preachers. The Jews mocked Jesus at the foot of the old rugged cross but we can sing it with sincerity because "everyone knows that drama isn't real" so we don't get the blood of Jesus dropped on us as we wave our hands in His dying face.


Brethren, once more, we implore you to be intellectually honest - We agree that the dissention among the elders of this congregation has done the most harm to the "unity of the spirit",

but it was those elders that spoke independently and outside their "inner circle" that caused that harm and they alone will have to answer for it.

But once the elders all agreed to work together as a unit and not talk outside the eldership except as united, we as members have no right to go forward with any action.

There are no CIRCLES in the Christian religion: Jesus Christ is the Head of the church and we are all body parts. The role of the elder is "to teach that which has been taught" and to "refute those who oppose" the Truth. The elders must first of all KNOW the truth and they must then be APT teachers. This above statement is about as absurd as having a father or mother impose some destructive practices on the family just to attract OUTSIDERS. When the children object that the family is being destroyed the SIMPLE SIMONS quoted above would give the children no voice in their own destruction.

That any member can believe that about elders or that one can be so simple minded as to equate elders to "celestial beings" is a total repudiation of all of the millions of dollars spent on preachers and having elders.

The Saddleback program calls for five concentric circles: the leaders are in the inner circle and you cannot question them and you cannot even enter that INNER CIRCLE until you have jumped through the hoops of classes, peer approval and induction into the CIRCLE. Jesus says that there are only servants and no masters: no outside the circle and no inside the circle. This is clearly a message from Saddleback or Willow Creek.

If these men are intellectually dishonest does that mean that the vast number (yes even at Madison) who go along to get along are dishonest? Was Ira North dishonest? Which came first: the change of worship "forms" or the dissension and honestly communicating the problems with those who have as much right to know as the elders?

Post Modern Theology: "We know that the elders did wrong but it was you talking about it that was really the fault."

This writer, a hundred miles removed, was accused today of causing all of the problems at Madison!

"I shot you in the heart but you are to blame for spurting blood all over my choir robe on your way down."

"I know that I lied about having sex with that there woman but you are to blame by telling others about it!

Ahab to Elijah: "I know about my wife's musical prophesiers or musical worship team but you are the Troubler in Israel for resisting my superior power."

Elders to Jesus: "We believe that you are the Messiah but you are guilty for our having to kill you because you are not the messiah we were expecting."

The division in all charismatic seeker forms of religion (identified with Apollo, Abbadon, Apollyon) is created not by private meetings but overt actions. Because of a presumptious spirit these changes are made knowing beforehand but proceeding "with a high hand" to "sow discord among brethren."

Except for counseling which also applies to everyone, the elders have no right to a private board room. The first century elders sat at the gates and were available for teaching, counseling or whatever. The elders "rule" because they are already laboring to the point of exhaustion in preaching and teaching. We "obey" by listening and following the teaching, faith and lifestyle.

If the Nazareth elders of the gate decided to tax you by tithing to build a Mega Town Gate and hire a Mega-Staff to meet your need they would have been despised and laughed out of town. But, with enough entertainment the might get enough "fat heads and simpletons" to give them a free ride to pomp and power.

The elders have no authority and no spiritual elder would discuss business which accrues to the "commonly held property" of the congregation. The elder has no authority once he steps outside of that powerful direct commandment: "He must teach the word as it has been taught."

We have every responsibility to support the eldership. To bring charges against any of these men is the wrong with no scriptural basis. The right thing is to let the Lord work HIS will. If the Elders can work together and lead the flock then all will be fine. If they cant, they will find a way to dissolve and stand for re-affirmation.

This is not the responsibility of any group of deacons or men of the church other than the eldership.

Furthermore, what you say is "lording it over the flock - is not that at all. It is the loving concern of these men "all of them" for every one of us. We have no right to take this into our hands.

We have no right to be privy to their discussions or to any information other than that presented as from the elders.

Brothers, we believe that you should repent of this action and fall in behind the eldership. They are called by GOD and selected by the church to HIS work.

Here is the CULT mentality. Hitler (no association) would say that the HUMAN MATERIAL who can function only at the "emotional level" has no right to enter the inner circle where God-elected intellectuals sit in the Chair.

"We know that we bombed your buildings but if you bomb our buildings we will bomb your buildings to get even for your terriorism."

But, you are outside the inner circle where God works with the elders! The Lord isn't working very well when He allows sowing of discord to occur.

Jesus warned about false or weak shepherds and Paul pointed out how to bring a charge against elders. The Bible still works so that the process works its way from personal interviews to public disclosure.

The elders are selected by A holy spirit or mental disposition. The lambs follow because they don't know how to find the food. They follow the shepherd based on his TEACHING, his FAITH and the OUTCOME OF HIS LIFE. Jesus forever fired command leadership.

Why is it that those who are so keen in supporting the elders already agree with the spiritually fatal decisions which perhaps the "body worshipers" helped force them into?

An elder is self selected in a sense: he is already "laboring to the point of exhaustion in preaching in teaching." We are told to look at his faith and follow (obey) the outcome of his life. If he does not have faith, does not practice spiritual Christianity then the followers throughout the country looking to Madison have no more right to respect them than those who follow a leader into suicide just because they are self-identified as having command leadership: something Christ denied.

When divisive people use the "majority rule" to impose a worship practice which is not absolutely necessary for the "performing of worship" (whatever that is) then there is a an act to SOW DISCORD AMONG BRETHREN.

The solution to the division is not to let the elders work it out but for the elders to quit being divisive and return to the doctrines and practices which made Madison a growing, serving church without becoming a laughinstock.


We need to be very careful about the term "self-interpreting" as it relates to the WORD. You open up many theological "cans of worms" that are not needed. Simply be intellectually honest. You cannot find anything wrong with the practices of: (1) Lifting Holy Hands - 1 Timothy 2:8 (2) Singing with the Spirit or Singing with Spirit (3) Clapping your hands either in appreciation or to GOD with the singing or to each other to edification. [Edification does not mean "feel good." Edification means "house building" or EDUCATION.]

Mother Carol: "Now, during this time when we were stumbling around corporately in worship, many of us were also worshipping at home alone. During these solitary times we were not necessarily singing, but we were bowing down, kneeling, lifting hands, and praying spontaneously in the Spirit Carol Wimber

We have found lots of error in lifting hands as a ritualist and legalistic act of worship.

We have found more about Clapping hands as a way to show contempt for the loosers.

Jesus said that worship was "in spirit" as a new PLACE to replace the old BUILDING. That worship takes place by "giving heed" to the Words of Christ which are the Spirit of Truth (John 6:63). Worship "inspirited" was Enthus O mania or "out of your mind." Jesus said worship IN YOUR MIND or Spirit.

The Old Places were te mountains of the Samaritans (Israel) and Mount Zion for the Jews. Jesus said that Christian worship would NOT be in those places. God is pure or holy Spirit, is not worshipped in PLACES made with human hands nor is He worshipped with the WORKS of human hands.

The new PLACE is the human spirit, cleansed at baptism so that God seeks us in that spirit or mind.

Paul said

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Rom 2:28

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro.2:29

In Philippians Paul wrote:

For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit (heart, mind), and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Phil 3:3

Paul tells us why with God seeking our worship in OUR minds or spirit, we must not allow a CRACK to develop in the form of external worshi:

Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. Phil 3:2

The DOGS were the emasculated, sex-changed, homosexual priests of various forms of the Mother Goddess. There is no exception in the Greek resources to the rule that when music begins and the hands begin to fly, fling and clap you are in te midst of a charismatic, sexual, homosexual atttempt to "bind the spirit and flesh together) with sodomy.

Paul identified the SPIRIT with the MIND OF CHRIST (1 Cor. 2).

Paul identified the SPIRIT (Eph 5:18) with the WORD OF CHRIST (Col. 3:16).

When you "fill up" with the Spirit only then are you capable of "speaking" to one another. The singing and melody is made in the heart or spirit.

Paul said that he worshiped IN SPIRIT which was in the mind. Paul said that we are to PRAY IN THE SPIRIT or in the Mind. None of this has to do with "WITH ENRAPTURED" feelings which come from being "raped."

The Bible needs interpreting only in the context of defending "sermonizing and versifying" the inspired Words of Christ Who is the Spirit of the Prophets (1 Pe 1:11). The Word is to be taught because it is claimed to instill the Spirit of Christ in us. We cannot interpret it to include anything which diminishes the church's role to show forth Christ and His Word.

The Bible is not a grab bag for interpreting or using "narrative theology" to construct a body of "doctrine" and "essential practices" of a given congregation.

A book written by Einstein which is cut and pasted into manipulative songs and sermons would dishonor and insult the author. In the same way, to do the same thing to the Bible is to insult the God of the Universe. Paul said that "worship" involves "giving heed to the public reading of the word, to doctrine and to exhortation." It is not necessary to construct a new dogma which is not necessary for carrying out the central "worship" task. Even the Lord's Supper is a showing forth or teaching opportunity totally squashed by self motivated hummers or singers to make it easier for me to think! Arrogant!

To offer our "bodies" as a living sacrifice does not mean "worship God with the body." Rather, it is sacrificed, burned up, reckoned as dead, dead, dead. If you try to worship with a dead body you are embracing a zombie. Only after giving up the sensual (sexual) senses which causes us make our bodies into an instrument can we possibly worship "in spirit."

Worship literally means to fall on your face. This can be done in a spiritual sense by totaly abandoning our "bodies" which cannot worship God and by following the only truly "worship" word used both under the Law and in the Christian System: that "act" is giving heed to the Words of Christ and letting the melody and meditation or Greek "singing" take place in our own spirits. This is vital because God doesn't pay attention to what He sees with His eyes or hears with His Ears (Isaiah 11:1-4).

Here is how spiritual maturity is achieved:

And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Peter 1:18

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Peter 1:19

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21

BUT there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Peter 2:1

"Private interpretation" means that The Word which came from Heaven needs and will not tolerate any "further explanation or further expounding." If you believe that the musical worship minister must "further expound" the Word from the Infinite Spirit God then you are violating the commandment and spitting in God's face.

That sure word of prophecy came by the Spirit of Christ (1 Pet 1:11; Rev 19:10). It is God's testimony. Worship is not getting the body sexually stimulated to begin trying to approach God in a "knowing" way. Rather, the only true "worship" of the New Testament church which is a Christian Synagogue is:

Proserchomai (g4334) pros-er'-khom-ahee; from 4314 and 2064 (includ. its alt.); to approach, i.e. (lit.) come near, visit, or (fig.) worship, assent to: - (as soon as he) come (unto), come thereunto, consent, draw near, go (near, to, unto).

We "worship" whatever we give heed to or assent to. We worship the TEAM if we are giving heed to a secular team whose utilitarianism goes all of the way back to the Towers of Babylon and even further identified with the "fallen angels" who taught Jubal and others how to "handle" musical instruments where "handle" means "without authority."

We also worship the COMPOSER as in all ancient Hittitite and Canaanite religion when we "give heed" to the words of the composer.

Just because there is not a commandment to do something-does not mean it is wrong to do it. The question is;

do these activities keep us from understanding what we do or do they make us so mad that they keep up from worship and if so why. It is certainly not unscriptural. It is most likely a departure from tradition with which we are uncomfortable.

Jesus restricted "worship" to in the spirit or mind and devoted to seeking Him in His Word. Romans 14 shows how two radically different groups (both very musical) could accept one another and meet in "synagogue" or study of the Word by, in Chapter 15, defining the "singing and making melody" concept. Edification is "education" and Paul didn't say "do everything" but "do everything that is educational." That totally eleminates the divisive "acts of worship" which we know beforehand will sow discord.

Unfortunately, in the last decade we have been suckered into the notion that because God didn't say "Don't Do that" we have the legal authority to do it. That is legalism and is called THE LAW OF SILENCE. Those who have informed Nashville for the last few years deny, with a straight face, and teach their flocks that God never spoke of silence. Nor, they say, does Scripture have anything to say about "commands, examples an inferences." However this position is ignorant or evil: the Bible and 2,000 years of church history before the latter-day post-biblical "apostles" knows that the Christian religion is based on the Christian documents: we can do anything we wish but to call it Christian and attach His name to it we must have authority.

And so has everyone said except Catholics until the present generation of prophets and 13th apostles were spawned.

Look at how the musical churches take advantage of the legalism based on their ignornance that God's silence is golden:

Introduction to the Musical use of the Law of Silence (this is legalism)

Music and the Law of Silence.

The universal reliance on Commands and Examples for faith and practice.

Music: Fight, Flight or Sex or Sexual Fantasy:

A bagpipe, a drum and 200 Scots can defeat 400 Scots without "instruments."

Why? Why, because music drives the soldier into a RAGE in order to save his life from certain death.

Music creates endorphins which result from or created by FIGHT, FLIGHT or SEXUAL reality of fantasy.

Some people want to MAKE LOVE TO GOD or "dare to dance with God." Others with depleted Seretonin want to FLEE from what the sexual participates beleives to be spiritual or "God inside my body."

However, more mature people and most males will be outraged by a church being controlled by what has always been identified as the feminine or effeminate art. They may not know why they are ENRAGED but the people who twang the "bowstrings" let fly Cupid's arrows (sexual) cause some to duck for cover but others to see themselves under spiritual attack. They will fight back without knowing why:

"This high that runners experience can cause disorientation at times, whereas, the runner may loose sight of his/her environment and my actually run into a car or tree. Neuroscientists say a high caused by the release of endorphins in the brain causes euphoria and peak experiences. Endorphins and enkephalins are concomitants of the "fight or flight" response...they are pain blunting, pleasure enhancing morphine like chemicals whose purpose is to make the body more effective.

"But in certain situations when they are not related to a "fight or flight" situation, they can have a negative effect.

"Since the sound wave penetrates their total body, cellular structures are being damaged throughout their body. Medical professionals have known for years that HI/LF sound results in clinical manifestations to auditory and balance functions but for some reason, wider exposure to other body systems has not been emphasized.

"When we look at the nervous system, we realize that nervous system impulses occur serially and may be described as frequencies. Much the same applies to the active muscle system which is actually in a state of vibration. It is in this vibratory field that all the bio-electric chemical, mechanical, energetic, thermal, structural, kinetic and dynamic processes take their course (Jenny, 1974).

"Therefore, when the natural course of frequencies and vibrations are altered by external, HI/LF sound waves that penetrate the total body system,

"one can see the potential for a breakdown in normal body functioning. "I don't want anyone to think that music is bad or unhealthy, quite the opposite is true. We have all heard that music soothes the wild beast. There is music therapy, bio feedback for relaxation and many other forms of calming music including vibroacoustic therapy.

"What I am warning against is the other end of the spectrum, music that hurts, enrages and triggers fight or flight brain reactions, resulting in physiological changes that can be harmful. As Naomi Orr once stated, "Military drums play music designed to make your feet take you where your head never would-Music is almost as dangerous as gunpowder-". If we look at history, as far back as organized warfare can be seen, there has been attempts to enrage soldiers into battle by beating drums first slowly (consistent with heart beat) and then more quickly as troops enter battle. The sound of the drums is low frequency and is as high intensity as the instrument would allow at the time.

David, who always feared that God would take his spirit or kill him praise this way:

Halal (h1984) haw-lal'; a prim. root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causat. to celebrate; also to stultify: - (make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool (- ish, -ly), glory, give [light], be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, [sing, be worthy of] praise, rage, renowned, shine.

Here is what the musicians are doing:

"Endorphins control emotions as well. The psychological model is "Glad, sad, and mad", with fear as a sidebar. The average person (harrumph) is typically in glad mode. If duress downshifts them to sad or mad, endorphins are released for re-elevating them to glad. If fear strikes, endorphins similarly allow coping by providing a feeling of calm euphoria. Such a nice feeling, perhaps too nice of one. Your brain (the primal portion) maintains a certain quota of endorphins to ensure survival under duress. If you don't have that quota, you've got problems.

"In the instance of pain you simply aren't supplied with an analgesic, but it becomes more complex with emotional reactions. A startle reflex can escalate into terror and paralysis, depression can downgrade into catatonia. Or your body can compensate by supplying adrenaline,

"which is intended for lifting you back up to glad mode but often overshoots you into an explosive rage. Why would your mind consider this better? It's simple. If your upset is inspired by a physical threat, then obviously paralysis and catatonia musn't be allowed.

"Rage may be draining, but it is more likely to get you through situations than lying there with your head in the sand is. Adrenaline is your body's response to the threat of atrophy and death. From Source

Musicians make it commercially only because they exploit the impulse to Fight, Flight or Sexual fantasy. When that commercial weapon is turned loose on the church we meet the requirements of the end-time Babylon Harlot church (Rev. 18).

Look again at the letter and its similarity to Carol Wimber of Vineyard:

Not only did they clap their hands, they even danced. NO, we are not saying we should dance (like David) although we would fail to find anything wrong with it, it is just not for us.

We find it hard to clap our hands and lift them in worship for the same reasons and can only hope to grow to the point that we can worship GOD with our whole body and spirit, yes - lifting hands and clapping to the music- getting in the aisle and laying prostrate or bending knee to pray.

To refer to worship that calls us to participate with our whole body and soul, "holy entertainment" is to be intellectually dishonest in the worst way.

Paul's silence to Timothy and in Peter's prohibition of "Thrusting Forward."

Esuchia (g2271) hay-soo-khee'-ah; feminine of 2272; (as noun) stillness, i.e. desistance from bustle or language: - quietness, silence.
Esuchios (g2272) hay-soo'-khee-os; a prol. form of a comp. prob. of a der. of the base of 1476 and perh. 2192 (to hold); prop. keeping one's seat (sedentary), i.e. (by impl.) still (undisturbed, undisturbing): - peaceable, quiet.
Hedraios (g1476) hed-rah'-yos; to sit; sedentary, i.e. (by impl.) immovable: - settled, stedfast

"In Ephesus, where a great multitude of sacred courtesans were attached to the shrine of Diana, women had much to unlearn. Previously they had been taught that fornication brought the worshiper into direct communion with the deity. It is worth noting that certain Gnostics and Nestorians employed authentia to indicate a force binding together the fleshly and the divine.

"But converts must learn that the one Mediator between God and man was Christ Jesus, and that they must practice their newfound faith in quiet decorum rather than in the wild and clamorous orgies demanded by Ephesian religion.

"Ephesus was famous for its shrine of Diana, where thousands of sacred prostitutes believed fornication brought believers into contact with deity in much the same way the Gnostics used authentia (new female authority) to bind the flesh and the divine together.

"When these women converted to Christianity they had to unlearn these pagan practices. 'Virtually without exception, female teachers among the Greeks were courtesans, such as Aspasia, who numbered Socrates and Pericles among her students. Active in every major school of philosophy, these hetairai made it evident in the course of their lectures that they were available afterwards for a second occupation.

"But the Bible teaches that to seduce men in such a manner was indeed to lead them to slaughter and the halls of death (cf. Prov. 2:18; 5:5; 6:27; 9:18). The verb authentein is thus peculiarly apt to describe both the erotic and murderous." (Trombley, Who says Women Cannot teach, p. 177).

"This word, authentein, is ordinarily translated "to bear rule" or "to usurp authority." In Euripides the word begins to take on a sexual tinge.

"The word should never, he announced, be used to denote tyranny, but rather murder by one's own hand, as with a sword.  (The sword was considered a phallic symbol in ancient Greece.) Moeris, also in the second century, advised his students to use another word, autodikein, as it was less coarse than authenteinThe Byzantine Thomas Magister reiterates the warning against using this objectionable term. The charred fragments of a scroll excavated from the ruins of Herculaneum demonstrate the use of authentein in a parallel position to "those wounded by the terrible shafts of Eros." The lines were penned by the rhetorician and obscene epigrammatist, Philodemus, who was nicknamed "Lascivus." 

Therefore, Paul did not so much issue a Direct Command about Thrusting Forward Women but Showed How to Identify and Separate them From Christ Honoring Women.

A Christian has "crucified their body" as a living sacrifice. When we do not "reckon our bodies dead" so that we can worship in Spirit then we are still in our sins.

The Vineyard Comparison: After she (Carol Wimber) had a dream in 1976 of standing preaching to a large crowd a seven-point sermon on the gifts of the Spirit, at the final point,  'a sensation like hot electricity' hit her head, travelled down her body, then up and out of her mouth. She awakened speaking in tongues. The sensation of heat and electricity is typical of that experienced in the current revival.  She said 'Soon God stopped showing me what he had wanted to do in the past and began to show me what he was going to do in the future.   I had a strong sense of God's desire for his bride, for the whole Church - Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox.' (Riding the Third Wave - 1987)

In the article "Worship: Intimacy With God the philosophy behind the 'praise and worship' found in the Vineyard churches it is explained that there is a 'well-thought out philosophy' guiding how God is worshipped through music and movement in order to achieve the goal through "Worship: Intimacy With God" .

"After we started to meet in our home gathering, I noticed times during the meeting -- usually when we sang -- in which I experienced God deeply... occasionally we sang a song personally and intimately to Jesus, with lyrics like 'Jesus, I love you.'

Those types of songs both stirred and fed the hunger for God within me... Thus we began to see a difference between songs ABOUT Jesus and songs TO Jesus. "About that time we realised our worship blessed God, that it was for God alone and not just a vehicle of preparation for the pastor's sermon. This was an exciting revelation.
After learning about the central place of worship in our meetings, there were many instances in which all we did was worship God for an hour or two.

"At this time we also discovered that singing was not the only way to worship God. Because the word worship means literally to bow down, it is important that our bodies are involved in what our spirits are saying. In scripture this is accomplished through bowing heads, lifting hands, kneeling, and even lying prostrate before God. ... we are blessed as we worship him.

He visits his people with manifestations of the Holy Spirit. "Thus worship has a two-fold aspect: communication with God through the basic means of singing and praying, and communication from God though teaching and preaching the word, prophecy, exhortation, etc. We lift him up and exalt him, and as a result are drawn into his presence where he speaks to us."

"In the Vineyard we see five basic phases of worship, phases through which leaders attempt to lead the congregation.... as we pass through these phases we are headed toward one goal:

intimacy with God.".... The fourth phase is described as "God Visits His People when "Expression then moves to a zenith, a climactic point, not unlike physical lovemaking... We have expressed what is in our hearts and minds and bodies, and now it is time to wait for God to respond.
Stop talking and wait for Him to speak, to move. I call this, the fourth phase, visitation:"
The fifth phase is called "Generosity "The fifth phase of worship is the giving of substance. The church knows so little about giving, yet the Bible exhorts us to give to God. it is pathetic to see people preparing for ministry who don't know how to give. That is like an athlete entering a race, yet he doesn't know how to run. If we haven't learned to give money, we haven't learned anything... " From Source

All ancient pagan musical worship was to bring one into the presence of the gods or make the spirit COME. They were not timid about it.

"But further, if they see men weakening themselves to the effeminacy of women,
some vociferating uselessly,
others running about without cause, others friendship is unbroken,
bruising and maiming each with the bloody cestus (boxing gloves -
boxing the wind according to Paul),
while contending in speaking without drawing breath,
swelling out their cheeks with wind,
and shouting out noisily empty vows,
do they lift up their hands to heaven in their admiration,
start up moved by such wonders, burst into exclamation,
again become gracious to men?"

The idea of making the gods or men GRACIOUS, as in the modern grace centered heresy does not grasp that God's grace or pleasure in giving mankind REST from buden-lading rituals is in CONTRAST to worldy GRACE which is totally devoted to charismatic meaning PLEASURING other people. Homosexuality in these religions would be attempted on Jesus as the Jewish (Kenite) clergy were defined as the children in th AGORA or market place. The market place was for selling songs, sermons, dancing and male and female prostitution.

"If these things cause the gods to forget their resentment,

if they derive the highest pleasure from comedies,
Atellane farces, and pantomimes,
why do you delay, why do you hesitate, to say that the gods themselves

also play, act lasciviously, dance, compose obsene (or just vain) songs, and undulate with trembling haunches?" Arnobius Against the Heathen, Ante-Nicene Fathers, VI, p. 531)

Another lie spread over the internet and pulpits like a crowded barnyard is that the practices of churches of Christ singing the Biblical material, one to another with no hint of that "music" word is based on 100% tradition. Again, we say that this is ignorant or evil because not even the Catholic Encyclopedia agrees with the instrumental position.

"But perhaps nothing was more characteristic of the mystery religions than what they called ecstasy. Believers in the mystery religions sought to cultivate a magical, sensuous communion with the divine. They would do almost anything to get themselves into a semiconscious, hallucinatory, hypnotic, or orgiastic spell

in which they believed they were sensually in contact with deity. Some used wine to assist in the euphoric experience, as Paul implied in Ephesians 5:18.

"Whether from literal intoxication or emotional exhilaration, when worshipers fell into a state of euphoria, it was as if they had been drugged. They assumed they were in contact (knowing personally ks) with God. (MacArthur, John, Charismatic Chaos, p. 164. Zondervan)

"dionysus certainly roves more than the other gods; the traditional picture of him is not one of him sitting sedately on Olympus sipping nectar and listening to the Muses (9 females) sing. Rather it is one of him roaming through the wilderness, thrysus (a wand bound with ivy and topped with a pine cone which had a magical connection with Babylonian mathematics) in hand, followed by bands of ecstatic women, his Bacchants, and spreading the art of cultivation of vines and of wine-making. Other gods may leave Olympus, but it is not habitual with them as it is with dionysus.

"dionysus often seems to stand somewhere between male and female, between god and man, between death and life. He is a male god, but he is always surrounded by women, his chief worshipers.

"His worship involved transvestism and the blurring of sex roles. Men and women both dressed in long robes covered by fawnskins, and women, as bacchants, left their normal sphere of activity, the home, and danced madly on mountainsides. dionysus even looks somewhat ambiguous sexually;

Pentheus in the Bacchae comments on the god's effeminacy: his long curls, his pale complexion.

Many writers observe that the study of Scripture is meaty and manly while sentimental singing is feminine or effeminate worship. Thus church music as we know it has no true link to the Biblical text -- the songsters and versifiers just "scratch a bit of paint off the Bible'" as they hurriedly pass by. For instance Janelle Foster-Joyce, University of Virginia observes in quotes:

"White gospel hymns written between 1860 and 1910 constitute musical worship in many Southern Baptist churches. Since the mid-twentieth century these hymns have been denigrated by musicologists; Nell Woods Black, Floyd Patterson, and Henry Wilder Foote label these hymns

"sentimental" on the basis of their texts, music, and style.

"A pervasive textual theme is one's relationship to Christ, whether a brotherly relationship or a passionate, erotic relationship.

"Scholars have derided this theme because they perceive it to be at a lower level than hymns that portray the Divine as an all-powerful being.

"The harmonic and rhythmic patterns of the hymns are repetitious, as is the use of a refrain, and scholars have labeled this a defect.

"The style of the hymns arises from two intersecting extant styles: the camp meeting tradition and the popular song;

"this too has been considered a lack of integrity.

"There also seems to be a discomfort with music in general and hymns in particular that cause a person to react emotionally."

Third, to denounce such effeminate worship -- or just to frown at it -- is to bring the emotional reaction that you are anti-feminist. Janelle Foster-Joyce notes:

"Beneath the dismissal of the hymns based on their sentimental aspects runs an undercurrent of disdain related to perceptions of gender in the hymns.

"In general, the perception of sentimentality and of reacting emotionally has strong associations with femininity (Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick, Barbara Epstein, and Gail Bederman);

"thus the rejection of these hymns by scholars has important anti-feminist implications.

However, she notes that when these hymns were being written there was less danger of "gender crossover" and the music expressed a reaction against violence:

"But ideas of the masculine and feminine in the historical contexts of these hymns were quite different from our late-twentieth-century ideas of gender. The hymns' texts and music show masculinity to have been bound up with feelings of brotherhood, gentleness, and submission to Divine leadership.

"The texts also suggest how ideas of femininity were associated with child-like qualities and an erotic submission to the Divine.

All churches took their cue from the New Testament and therefore as in all schools or "synagogues" there is no rational for music any more than we could survive having the brother and Sister Singers perform for Jesus when He comes to call us home.

"Traditionalism" based on Jesus statement to the Pharisees is 1) ignoring the Words of God, 2) specificially so that they can enforce their own "new" practices and so that (3) they can make long prayers and steal the "church houses" of widows.

Those who add practices not absolutely necessary for that one hour a week are the TRADITIONALISTS. They are also the Sectarians as the "two services" at Madison church of Christ in Nashville consists of a non-musical church and a musical sect. Whey them? Because sectarians ADD something to the long-held views of the church and therefore divide it and there is no redemption for those who deliberately sow discord and offend one of these little ones. You had better have a huge lifejacked when God puts that millstone around your neck like a sick kitten.

No conformity to the Biblical mandate (about which there is not a shred of doubt about "music") is not traditionalism.

Traditionalism is adopting the secular forms of music and insulting God by calling it "worship"


Yes- a house divided cannot stand. But there is no reason for us to be. Jesus told us, You shall know you are my disciples by your love." We usually attend the late service. Had the elders said that early service would be "contemporary", then we would go to early service and not make a big ado about changing our worship time. The big question is- does any of this have anything to do with our being a Christian. The answer is obviously a resounding "NO".

"Contemporary" is a very deceptive: sure we wanne be modern. However, contemporary worship was contemporary when Nimrod used his own musical worship team.

In discussing the authority of elders as restricted to their "teaching the Word as it has been taught" with no command authority over "buildings and grounds" or redefining our doctrine and essential practices, the rest of the chapter is ignored. Mark 12 specificially has Jesus alluding to the musical replacement for the Word of God as sole teaching resource.

Click to see God's vineyard, thorns and musical worship festivals. As usual, when false teaching is defended by Scripture it is in a proof-text sense but it turns around and bites you.

Not everyone believes the same thing about the Bible. However, the Bible is the CORE of Christian information and I don't trust anyone who hears God speaking. This has been the generally held view by all Christian groups and still is for most. Therefore, to declare that the Bible is no longer the rule for faith and practice by its very definition makes that new decision a new sectarianism.

Some at Madison believe int he Word and therefore base their worship on the word. Those who want to change are a new sectarianism. Therefore, in the interest of eternal judgment, basic honesty demands that the NEW MUSICAL SECTARIANS need to leave rather than sow discord and steal the church property. There are lots of places which even the members could direct elders to go to worship "like the nations."

The seven ones of Dr. Rubel Shelly has permeated the Nashville churches for more than a decade. As long as one believes and is baptized (or not) then they have met the qualificaitons of the CORE GOSPEL and are therefore permitted to do or believe everything they wish and just, in Dr. Shelly's words "Color it Christian." Why, even the S.U.N. to which God turned Israel over to worship because of their MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai can be used to color the S.O.N.

Dr. Rubel Shelly stated:

Here is what God wants churches passionate about:

(1) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, (2) that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

(3) "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36).

(4) "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: (5) While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (6) Since we have now been justified by his blood, (7) how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!" (Rom. 5:8-9).

These are the essentials of Christian faith. It is this core message about Jesus that we share in common with other

Bible-believing, cross-proclaiming, resurrection-confessing, born-again persons that constitutes us a church.

Outside the essence of the gospel,

there are other features that reflect our history and consensus interpretations of the larger biblical message.

Rubel Shelly: They had to strain the story of Jesus through philosophical sieves. They had to create and clarify special terms. They made entrance into their circles a matter of "enlightenment" as reflected in peculiar vocabulary and interpretations.

In the meanwhile, the core gospel has survived two millennia now in its narrative form of telling the big story through collections of little ones about Jesus.

Dr. Shelly believes that John lifted the Logos concept from the Greek world and used it to further his personal agenda. However, the Hebrew equivalent, Dabar, first appears in Genesis. So, it isn't necessary to diminish John as inspired and claim that he used Narrative Theology to construct his accoung.

What the Core Gospel Preachers do not grasp is that Paul insulted the Corinthians when he said that he was just going to preach "Christ and Him crucified." He could not feed them "meat" because they were still CARNAL.

If you believe that Christ the Spirit has not protected His Story but has left it up to be sifted bone dry by phylosophers and theologians then be my guest. But this denies that Jesus came in the flesh to speak and be the WORD or Logos of God. And if we do that our spirit is the spirit of Anti-Christ.

Our faith and our baptism are the same no matter. Again, it comes down to whether we are able to accept scriptural acts of worship that have not traditionally been apart of our assemblies. We obviously have those that can and those that can't.

We have to allow our elders to solve the issues of church direction with GOD's guidance.

We must wait upon the LORD. "They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength, they shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint "- Teach Me Lord to Pray.

Not true. One has the faith that Jesus supplied all that relates to life and Godliness in His Spirit-protected Word. Others believe that Christ was incompetent and inspired "musicians" must make up for His inadequacies. This is anti-christ.

One has the faith that worship is only "in spirit" or in the mind, another believes that they can perform Body Worship.

One believes the direct command of Paul that the teaching resource is the Word of Christ or Spirit, another disputes him and says that our own worship team is inpired enough to write erotic hymns that make us clap.

One believes that external "melody" or "psallo" is related to the SOP Jesuf fed Judas, to twanging the bowstring to "sing" arrow into your heart or "psalloing" your head off with a sword. Another believes that internal melody is external harmony. So far gone!!!

There are no "acts of worship" related to music in the entire Bible. Music with instruments and "making a joyful noise before the Lord" was the gone-mad, slobbering "praise" used by David. This was not worship but a war chant. They used it on Jesus.

There is no PROBLEM unless the elders deliberately and with a high hand knowing that they will sow discord and offend many of the "old" crowd.

Contrary to the normal, too many are not God selected and God empowered: most are self selected and are as "apt to chase a coon as teach the Bible." Elders, like most non-command leaders, are SET to their work not by a direct operation of an imagined third, junior member of the God family. Rather, like all competetent teachers of 'feeders' they are ordained when they have A holy spirit which in both Hebrew and Greek means the mind or "mental disposition" of God. The Classics know of A holy spirit and An unholy spirit.

They "rule" by feeding the Word "just as it has been delivered to them." Others "obey" by taking heed to their teaching, their faith and their lifestyles.

The elders are not "celestial beings" and have no better connection to God than you. They were given their curriculum in the Words of Christ and have no authority to get a new shot of "spirit" which will forgive sowing discord.

Contrary to WAITING ON THE LORD WHO HAS ALREADY SPOKEN AND DELIVERED HIS VERDICT, when we see a problem we have to blow the trumpet and tell the people that God took on the form of a slave to Speak to us.


Many of our members have been complaining about the use of Larry Sullivan and his relationship with the Saddlebrook movement. I distinctly remember the beginnings of Amazing Grace TV ministry when Ira and out elders went to Rex Humbard's Cathedral to get advise. We used many of the same techniques used there and we did not hear anybody fussing about it. AG brought many people to Madison and was responsible for large growth during the 1970s.Jesus told us "the sons of men are sometimes wiser than the children of light" For us to examine and use church growth techniques to bring people in so we can reach them is not wrong. We have to honestly ask ourselves if the technique or activity is condoned by scripture and not just our tradition.

We have to be careful about traditions and not teach them as absolutes. Jesus taught us not to do as the Pharisees did in this manner, teaching the traditions of men as commandment. We have a 2000 year perspective and we have a 2000 year barrier. We cannot travel in time to witness the worship of the early church. We can be patient with one another and let out elders sort out all of this.

I just hate myself when I "plant the seed" and cannot tolerate God's Divine Will. I want to do all of those tricks to force the seed to germinate and deliver great watermellons. I can drown any houseplant God can create. WE ARE NOT GODS. We can do nothing to "grow a church" but we can collect a mass but Jesus never spoke to the masses except in parables.

While Madison was growing and then fading before our eyes, other churches grew just as much by sticking to the basics of Bible study, the Lord's Supper and looking out for others. A group praying together as a community without a human HEAD of the "family." Other churches are growing without adding pagan musical practices.

We can probably say that Rex Humbard had not declared that children should be entertained and not taught, that feminine and effeminate "worship teams" should "preside over the flock" as long as they used a tune. Rex did not have a Cult-like circles of membership whose hurdles you mounted only by signing Covenants of Membership and satisfying the INSIDERS that you were trustworthy and loyal to the INSIDERS. He probably did not, as at Willow Creek, make the men sign covenants of agreement to "joyfully submit to female elders." Ira did not come back with a choir and an organ and Madison had a wide reputation. As an elder in Seattle I was happy to invite Ira to the area elders, deacons and interesteds meeting. I was happy to have Ira for 6th grade Bible--book of Romans. So, lets not try to prop up deliberate sowing of discord by calling on help from Ira: God will not forgive that.

So, please don't muddy the proud name of Ira North by associating him with cult-like movements which are quite identical to the Apollo (abbadon or Apollyon) Worship Center.

There are no earthly authorities which can wipe away the entire Bible's association between "music" and telling God: "I will not listen to you." Yes, this is the universal message. No, the common people "did not sing congregationally with instrumental accompaniment." Huh? I don't care what your elders and preachers and manipulators tell you. Yes, they always "synagogued" to learn the word but there was no praise service in the Jewish synagogue or the Christian synagogues.


We will not sign the petition we received from you. We cannot and will not condone this mutiny against all the elders of the Madison church. Worship at the second service, Sunday evenings, Wednesday night - Prayer and Praise - cannot and should not be named "holy entertainment" - It is simply Christians seeking and yearning to worship their GOD with all of their being.(Body and spirit). To characterize it as such, shows either (1) a very shallow understanding of the Christian's need to worship or (2) an inability to worship in this manner due to a tradition alone. This is not a condemnation but an objective observation of theologians that think much more deeply than myself. We stand in the same light of criticism as every one else and are simply trying to be as intellectually honest about it as we can.

I don't have space here but let me remind you that Jesus came as the chief SHEPHERD and not CEO. He made it clear that if you wanted to meet him you should be like lambs looking for spiritual food. No shepherd in the bounds of sanity would sing, clap and sound the warrior's chant: "playing instruments and making a joyful noise before the Lord." You would drive the sheep outside the fold and tell the wolves where to get the sheep of the hireling. Paul defined the elders as shepherds or bishops of FEEDERS of the flock. Again, the elders are commanded to gou out collecting stray lambs to make HIS OWN fold. You are speaking of COMMAND LEADERSHIP: Jesus said that the way to exercize that would be to be the most intensive LABORER.

Mutiny? Doesn't mutiny imply a contract? I will be your leader "through grizzly bear country." I will find you following me because I am already out there "laboring to the point of exhaustion at preaching and teaching. "I have pledged myself in order to even be honored for my work that "I will teach the Word as it has been taught." I will leave the masses and go out looking for individual lost sheep. I will be honored by my sheep because I rounded them up and knew them by name and they followed me because they knew that I would never let a wolf into my sheepfold to be my "minister."

Crew member: I know your reputation as a good and honest captain "going into all the world." I know your teaching, your faith and I see how your life has "outcomed." Therefore, I will obey you.

Now, we sign a contract binding the parties of the first and second part.

If the rules are violated the contract is broken unless I have signed something to bind myself to the ship when the captain is determined to drive it on the rocks and kill us all.

But, the elders are not Captains of Our Souls or celestial beings. They have a tough job to do but it is made impossible by implied threats that "we need to keep our crowd by changing the worship ritual."

In our review of the Covenant of Membership we showed that most of the material about elders has even Jesus warning against unfaithful shepherds: indeed, the New Covenant came about because "there was no man" and God sent His own "right hand" to be our only Teacher and Mediator and Shepherd (nope. praise teams are not mediators). The Jewish elders fired God and hired a king like the nations so that they could WORSHIP LIKE THE NATIONS. God fired them.

Paul warned that the errors would come out of the elders. He was not talking about an ecclesiastical body but rather all 'old men' are elders. Only those who are voluntarily "laboring to the point of exhaustion in preaching and teaching" are due any honor above all elder men or women. They were not ordained to get the Holy Spirit to punch their ticked; they were 'pointed out' because of Paul's previous work and knowledge of their proven work as slaves and not masters.

Paul also shows how that when they are in error they must be discipled because they are JUST ANOTHER MEMBER whom the group follows (without ordination) because he commands respect for his Biblical knowledge, his faith and his walk in life.

There is no "college of presbyters" and this is the Catholic fallacy which has landed Madison right squarely in trouble. When you share confidences you share ownership and would never change "worship" in order to appease a small group or a large group.

The "seeker-centers" readily acknowledge that they have replaced the old church with entertainment. Why else would they build theaters. One church in Nashville wanted to "provide venue for Rock and Roll" and all of those explicitely sexual concepts.

Apollo is Apollyon or Abbydon: he founded the seeker center at Delphi. His "ministers" were musicians: they could EAT all of the stray sheep they could attract and slaughter.

Sure, some immature people will seek out the entertainment but they will NEVER be dues paying members until the elders legalistically lay claim to "giving as an act of worship." This always leads to tithing or more than tithing: you don't tithe you don't advance to the inner circles of membership.

This writer clearly has an unscriptural and unhealthy understanding of the elders as more than just members with teaching and spiritual guidance talents above and beyond the regular members. He cannot "shepherd" those who often know more of the Bible than they do.

If he deliberately brings in the "band" into the sheep fold which demands a quiet, gentle spirit, don't be surprised that some of the "lambs" turn out to be "shepherds."

Again, music is not a worship word in the entire Bible. And indeed "music" is both the cause and MARK that people have rejected the Word and have told God: "We won't hear any more from you." Singing the erotic songs of sentimental poets is the only incontrovertable proof that one prefers the "idolatry of talent" to the quiet listening to the Words of Christ in song and sermon.

It is a fact that singing four-part fanny with four different groups singing four different sets of words at four different times with four different tunes is as damnable as choirs doing the same. Paul define the "spirit" to fill up with as the Word of Christ. The method is "teaching" which is identical to "preaching." The people are the 'one another.' And the melody is in the heart just like Paul said because he knew and any bumpkin knows that our "harmony" is a complex, nerve-wrecking experience to many older people. Harmony contains the "dog barks" and "water drips" which drive us insane at night. However, it FEELS good because it induces endorphins or morphin-within and gives us a DRUG HIGH. That is why the hand clapping and "body" worship is going on. But a drug high will no more be honored by a Spirit God than using peyote buttons or LSD as one pastor wants to do to speed up the "musical" Drug Delivery System.

The Christan "needs" to worship but by the direct commands and practices of Jesus one does not need--cannot tolerate--the masses and still worship "in spirit" and "in truth." What is happening is that a very immature and uninformed view of "worship" as doing something with the body. The older scholars such as Augustine identifed musical performance as "WORK." And so it is. The belief that when the body begins to rock and roll one is engaged in A LEGALISTIC ACT OF WORSHIP to either, in Dr. Shelly's words, "Move the worshiper into the presence of God" or to call Christ down, both of which violates a direct command of Paul not to follow the musical 'ascending and descending' rituals which was the terminal sin at Mount Sinai.

For this reason - we believe that our elders are correct in their decision. It would be wrong to not have a more traditional worship period for those that desire it and vice versa. Much teaching is required by our elders to help us understand why they are taking a particular direction and to lead this congregation into the future.

Those that desire to worship in one way need to understand that others who worship differently are not doing it for entertainment purposes but because they feel closer to GOD worshipping that way. Everyone should understand that there is no one right way here - only different opinions and no one should force their opinion on anyone else. If we truly believe the motto of the restoration movement , "In matters of doctrine - obedience; in matters of opinion - freedom; in all things - love", "then there will truly be more love per square inch on this corner - If not, then this too may die" and both of these quotes are from Ira North.

Worship cannot be "performed" in a "way" which suits the whims and Biblical shallowness of each individual. And again, the Biblical way for 2,000 years has excluded "music as performance" and has, as in the synagogue, "denounced body rituals and devoted itself solely to the Word."

The world knows that Madison has a musical sectarian division. Christianity Today identifies one Methodist church which has five musical sects.

There is no outside counseling which can get rid of the thorn thrust in the sides of the congregation. The remedy is to remove the thorn and the division will just go away as quickly as it started and those looking for a body massage will find another "venue" or hopefully will get some better Biblical training.

Traditional Worship is that which follows the "commandments of men" making it vain worship. Singing the text is Biblical but all notions of Paul's command to "teach" as "musical" is based on human traditionalism which goes back to the Towers of Babylon and Nimrod's Musical Worship Girls.

"Feel closer to God" is what we were talking about: music can "move you into the presence of God." Or musical teams are 'priests and mediators between man and God." If you jacked yourself up into the presence of God by taking a musical performer with you, you would be burned to a crisp: yea, back to pure nuclear juice.

The Levitical instrumentalists were not 'musicians' but slave drivers even as your musical worship team "drives you into a charismatic state"-- and gives the glory to God--where you equate your nerve endings to "the gods inside." This was the ancient pagan superstition so well documented in the Classics and alluded to by Paul to the near-pagan Corinthians.

We worship god in our spirit or mind (nous) which is the throne room where we meet God in the holy place (naos). If a Levitical musician tried to get into that place which has room only for one worshiper and God at one time he would be run through with a sword: or his head would have been "melodied" off.

If one had ever read Romans 14 and 15 with feelings one would understand that Rome was made up of many Orphics who were vegetarians and musical worshipers. The Dionysics were meat-eating, wine-drinking musical worshipers. In Romans 15 Paul showed an absolute ONE WAY to assemble without deliberately sowing discord.

The Solution to Warfare Against Jesus with Music

Cycle One

Cycle Two

5:1 WE then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

15:10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

15:11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.


For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning (teaching), that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Romans 15:4

And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust. Romans 15:12

Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: Romans 15:5

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost. Romans 15:13

That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify (tell of His works) God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 15:6

And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another. Romans 15:14

Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister (deacon) of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: Romans 15:8

Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God. Romans 15:15

And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will

(2) that the offering (bloodless sacrifice) up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. Romans 15:16

(1) confess to thee among the Gentiles, and

(1) That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God,

(2) sing unto thy name. Romans 15:9

ministering the gospel of God,

That is quite identical to two other direct commands which is all the Bible has to say remotely equatable (erroneously) to "music"



And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; (John 6:63 Words = Spirit)

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,

teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,

singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name (authority) of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

The Preside Over Authority of Women was always Sexual Authority: you can flaunt it if you wish.

"Michael Clycas, the Byzantine historiographer, uses this verb to describe the woman, 'who make sexual advances to men and fornicate as much as they please without arousing their husband's jealous.'" (Charles Trombly, Who Said Women Can't Teach, p. 176)

Ephesus was famous for its shrine of Diana, where thousands of sacred prostitutes believed fornication

brought believers into contact with deity

in much the say way the Gnostics used authentia to bind the flesh and the divine together.

When these become converted to Christianity they had to unlearn these pagan practices.' Trombley, p. 177)

But the Bible teaches that to seduce men in such a manner was indeed to lead them to slaughter and the halls of death (cf. Prov. 2:18; 5:5; 6:27; 9:18).

The verb authentein is thus peculiarly apt to describe both the erotic and murderous." (Trombley, Who Says Women Can't Teach, p. 177).

"Women and girls from the different ranks of society were proud to enter the service of the gods as singers and musicians. The understanding of this service was universal: these singers constituted the 'harem of the gods'." Quasten, Music and Worship in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, beginning on page 41

When females could not be "clergy singers" the Catholic used a castrated musical worship team. They supplied the same appearance, voice and "organ-like" music without violating the law which said that instruments could not be played in the Pope's presence in the Sistine Chapel.

Nevertheless, musicians attempting to seduce the gods have always been "the harem of the gods." These were emasculated male priests in Dionysus worship whose practices led Paul to remove the word "Music" from the pagan minds as they came into Christianity as an "in spirit" and not an "in body" or sexual religion.

Having seen how 18 years of hard work can be stolen by false teaching about the Restoration Movement, the meaning of Sectarianism, instrumental music and older scholarship, I respectfully submit comments as an once elder who knows that all of the Pro-Music teaching totally disregards the Bible, church history and ancient literature. It also knows for a historical certainty that the "music" added to cause my "body" to worship is done with a high hand knowing that it is going to sow discord and offend many of these little ones.

The "waiting for the old people to leave or die is a common mantra."

I am not sure that there is forgiveness for deliberate sin after coming to a knowledge of the truth. Paul associated this sin with attempting to restore the burning animal legalism and burning animals was the only place for the "musical" Levites to make a great crashing sound.

Sorry about that but if it moves your body rather than your spirit (rational mind) you are engaged in the most ancient form of paganism and repudiating the One Spirit God.

We will look at the Hand Clapping material later on. For now, lets say that this was not collective worship practices and worship with handclapping is usually pictured with naked pagan female musicians.

See our notes on hand clapping: Word Study

See our notes on Lifting Holy Hands

Carol Wimber's Pattern

Am I become your enemy and the causer of all of your division because I tell you the truth?

Kenneth Sublett

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