John York and Rubel Shelly: Born from Above: Finding the Right Conversation

John York and Rubel Shelly say that we should give up any control about what we believe and with whom we fellowship and we need the Spirit to descend from above that we might be born anothen?
Jack Cottrell, The Holy Spirit's Work in Conversion "Traditional, orthodox Christian faith says Jesus Christ is not only equal with the Father; he is also distinct from the Father in that he is a separate, distinct person, i.e., a separate center of consciousness with his own distinct thoughts, emotions, and actions."  NO ORTHODOX TRINITARIAN TAUGHT THAT.  There is ONE GOD and ONE LORD Jesus as the Christ. The "tri-nature" where Paul compared God's Spirit to our spirit is father, son and spirit: not God, Jesus and the spirit person (people)
The claim to be BORN FROM ABOVE

This is old false teaching by Rubel Shelly and John York.

1. ASSERTION: H. Leo Boles was the first person in history who, in 1938 at FHC, taught that the Godhead is three, separated persons (people) able to hold meetings and decide what to do.  John Mark Hicks at LU calls God "three centers of consciousness able to commune with one another. This is the rationale for removing Christ from the public confession and becoming The Family of God: as a community church it is defined in terms of COMMUNE."

2. CHALLENGE: a reader called my attention to the views of David Lipscomb. These views were written by J.W.McGarvey who defined SPIRIT as PERSONALITY as indeed all historic literature does.  "He has a nasty spirit" means that he has a nasty personality. I reviewd this request at this link.

3. t clear that neither he nor any Restoration Movement teacher believed that the Spirit OF Christ speaks to any person except through His Word.

DANGER: either out of delusion or using psychological violence claim that the SPIRIT told them that the music (noise) of the cursed sacrificial system was God COMMANDING INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE and WE MUST NOT DISOBEY this direct command.   This is THE WAY for Satan to deceive people and Peter outlawed private interpretation or further expounding as the MARK of a false teacher.

The Spiritual Formation people at LU believe that using eastern mysticism they can tap into a stream of living waters or a river of living waters.  By being born FROM ABOVE they can become the river of living waters. Unfortunately, Jesus the Christ beat us to it and the promise is not to us any more than the incarnation is for us.  The only examples of born FROM ABOVE in the Greek literature is of those who clain to be living gods.

In Narrative Thology which sees the great Epics of God such as the Exodus as patterns which can be used to compose sermons based on "fractions" of the Exodus story.  This inculcates the manly characters of God but are then twisted to lyrical prose that makes you want to bring out your lyre.

This is the imagination which puts the preacher in the role of the hero and is free to fill in the blanks where God has not spoken. The Epics of God are intended to be READ with a masculine voice withoout changing the text.  The text is no important, they say, only the patternism or as they would say "paradigm."

Reading: John 3:1-10 (11-21)

John York: Introduction: I’m honored to be with you this morning and participate in this series of lessons introduced by David last week that lead us into conversations that matter –
        those moments of critical dialogue in life
        when everything changes because of what is said and heard.

We’re looking for models [patterns] of such conversation in the life of Jesus and it’s no accident that David began last week in the Gospel of John, the account filled with familiar stories like the one between Jesus and the Samaritan woman. We back up one chapter this morning to John chapter 3 and the conversation between Jesus and the religious leader Nicodemus:

It is clear from the claims and the sermons that the latest spawn of preachers have no intention of "teaching that which has been taught." That was the direct command of Christ for the Church of Christ in the Wilderness where He excluded "vocal or instrumental rejoicing." That continued under the Old Testament were the spiritual people attended synagogue while the Civil-Military-Priestly complex profaned the Sabbath with the unlawful sacrificial system.  Jesus practiced and Paull commanded EXCLUSIVELY a Word of God assembly. Christ in Isaiah 55 says the WATER of the word is FREE and in Isaiah 58 outlawed out speaking our own words.  Jesus said that would be the mark of the sons of the Devil who speak on their own.  That is why events like the Exodus is a PATTERNISM for manufacturing sermons but no one is willing to teach you what REALLY happened when Israel fell into musical idolatry and were effectively terminated.

“Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, ‘Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him. In reply Jesus declared, I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born anothen.’

The imagination-filled view is that the common translation is wrong: Nicodemus HAD been born as a mature man.  He needed to born AGAIN.  Jesus wouldn't tell him to be born FROM ABOVE: that applied only to Jesus indwelled by the Christ of God. The born from above concept fits only a PAGAN god such as Zeus. Zeus fits the patternism of John and the Lipscomb Folly. Take a look at 2 Maccabees to see the post modern abomination in action: yes women, sex and music in the holy places.  Revelation17 shows the rise of the end-time Babylonian mother of harlots who uses "lusted after fruits" as rhetoricians, singers and insstrument players.  In Revelation 18 John calls them sorcerers who HAD deceived the whole world. The unleasing of the LOCUSTS is well documented as the musical worship team of Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyon.


We disciples love to peek at the ending of the story: sometimes that helps keep us from following a red herring laid by the enemy intentionally for those who are not OF TRUTH:
John 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: 
        he that is of the earth is earthly,
                and speaketh of the earth:
        he that cometh from heaven is above all.
John 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard,
        that he testifieth;
        and no man receiveth his testimony.

No human can testify of anything outside of the revealed Word of God: that is why the devil speaks on his own.

Is. 59:3 For your hands are defiled with blood,
        and your fingers with iniquity;
        your lips have spoken lies,
        your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
Is. 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth:
        they trust in vanity, and speak lies; t
        hey conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

Vanitas I. Lit., emptiness, nothingness, nullity, want of reality: Magice di magici, that were invoked by incantations Cantus he production of melodious sound, a musical utterance or expression, either with voice or instrument; hence, song, singing, playing, music B. An incantation, charm, magic song Resono to sound or ring again, to resound, re-echo carmina resonantia chordis Romanis, to the strings, oratory. Chorda    catgut  a string of a musical instrument, for binding slaves.

Isa. 59:16 And he saw that there was no man,
        and wondered that there was no intercessor:
        therefore his arm brought salvation unto him;
        and his righteousness, it sustained him.

John 8:23 And he said unto them,
        YOU are from beneath; I am from above:
        YE are of this world; I am not of this world.


James 3:15 This
descendeth not from above,
        but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
James 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

Religious music has no other Biblical or literary source other than SATAN or LUCIFER. Speaking of the religious festivals in Amos:

"In pagan traditions, musical instruments are invented by gods or demi-gods, such as titans. In the Bible, credit is assigned to antediluvian patriarchs, for example, the descendants of Cain in Genesis 4:21. There is no other biblical tradition about the invention of musical instruments." (Freedman, David Noel, Bible Review, Summer 1985, p. 51

And Jubal "handled" musical instruments meaning without authority.

Sophia cleverness or skill in handicraft. of the Telchines, Pi.O.7.53;  in music and singing, tekhnē kai s. h.Merc.483, cf. 511; in poetry, Sol.13.52, Pi.O.1.117, Ar.Ra.882, X.An.1.2.8,
Pi.O.7.53For they climbed the hill without bringing the seed of burning flame; and they established the sacred precinct on the acropolis with fireless sacrifices. Zeus brought to them a yellow cloud [50] and rained on them abundant gold. And the gray-eyed goddess herself bestowed on them every art, so that they surpassed all mortal men as the best workers with their hands; and the roads bore works of art like living, moving creatures, and their fame was profound.
Incentor, one who sets the tune or begins to sing, a precentor, singer
I. Lit.: carminis, Paul. Nol. Carm. 15, 32 : [1] incentore [2] canam magic, charm [3] Phoebo Apollo-Apollyon [4] Musisque [5] magistris, female worship minister-priestess

II. Trop., an [A] inciter, exciter: [B] igneus burning for strife [C] turbarum, civilis belli, CIVIL WAR, rebellionis [renewal of war]. Flamen Hislop

Rev 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

Lampas lights used in Bacchic ceremonies Id.Ra.340 , or in festal processions, phainete, faggot, luchnis, helios identified with Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyon of the book of Revelation.

Frogs Chorus
Awake, for it has come tossing torches in hand,
Iacchos, Oh Iacchos,
the light-bringing star [Aster] of our nocturnal rite.
Now the meadow brightly burns
Old men's knees start to sway.

They shake away their pains
and the long cycles of ancient years
Through your holy rite.
Beaming with your torch,
lead forth to the flowering stretch of marsh
the youth that makes your choruses, o blessed one!

Tekon skilfully invented by an anxious mind,  or performed hymn, Eros
Rev. 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;  v 23 for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
h.Merc.483, What skill is this? What song for desperate cares? What way of song? For verily here are three things to hand all at once from which to choose, —mirth, and love, and sweet sleep. [450] And though I am a follower of the Olympian Muses [dirty adulteresses] who love dances and the bright path of song —the full-toned chant and ravishing thrill of flutes —yet I never cared for any of those feats of skill at young men's revels, as I do now for this: [455] I am filled with wonder, O son of Zeus, at your sweet playing.
        Now, you are free to learn whatever you please; [475] but since, as it seems, your heart is so strongly set on playing the lyre, chant, and play upon it, and give yourself to merriment, taking this as a gift from me,
        and do you, my friend, bestow glory on me.
Sing well with this clear-voiced companion in your hands; for you are skilled in good, well-ordered utterance. [480] From now on bring it confidently to the rich feast and lovely dance and glorious revel, a joy by night and by day. Whoso with wit and wisdom enquires of it cunningly, him it teaches [485] through its sound all manner of things that delight the mind, being easily played with gentle familiarities, for it abhors toilsome drudgery; but whoso in ignorance enquires of it violently, to him it chatters mere vanity and foolishness.

Pind. O. 1 But at any given time the glory of the present day [100] is the highest one that comes to every mortal man. I must crown that man with the horse-song in the Aeolian strain. I am convinced that there is no host in the world today who is both knowledgeable about fine things and more sovereign in power,
     [105] whom we shall adorn with the glorious folds of song.
    A god is set over your ambitions as a guardian, Hieron, and he devises with this as his concern. If he does not desert you soon, I hope that I will celebrate an even greater sweetness, [110] sped by a swift chariot, finding a helpful path of song when I come to the sunny hill of Cronus.
     For me the Muse tends her mightiest shaft of courage. Some men are great in one thing, others in another; but the peak of the farthest limit is for kings. Do not look beyond that! [115] May it be yours to walk on high throughout your life, and mine to associate with victors as long as I live, distinguished for my skill among Greeks everywhere.



This is the Greek version of "Lucifer (Zoe) the singing and harp playing prostitute in the garden and the Cainite (from a musical note) and Jubal who handled musical instruments meaning without authority and sexually.

HH 4 511 But you are able to learn whatever you please. [490] So then, I will give you this lyre, glorious son of Zeus, while I for my part will graze down with wild-roving cattle the pastures on hill and horse-feeding plain: so shall the cows covered by the bulls calve abundantly both males and females. And now there is no need for you, [495] bargainer though you are, to be furiously angry.”

When Hermes had said this, he held out the lyre: and Phoebus Apollo [Apollyon] took it, and readily put his shining whip in Hermes' hand, and ordained him keeper of herds. The son of Maia received it joyfully, [500] while the glorious son of Leto, the lord far-shooting Apollo, took the lyre upon his left arm and tried each string with the key. Awesomely it sounded at the touch of the god, while he sang sweetly to its note.

Afterwards they two, the all-glorious sons of Zeus turned the cows back towards the sacred meadow, [505] but themselves hastened back to snowy Olympus, delighting in the lyre. Then wise Zeus was glad and made them both friends. And Hermes loved the son of Leto continually, even as he does now, when he had given the lyre as token to the Far-shooter, [510] who played it skilfully, holding it upon his arm. But for himself Hermes found out another cunning art and made himself the pipes whose sound is heard afar.

Xen. Anab. 1.2.8 [8] There is likewise a palace of the Great King in Celaenae, strongly fortified and situated at the foot of the Acropolis over the sources of the Marsyas river; the Marsyas also flows through the city, and empties into the Maeander, and its width is twenty-five feet. It was here, according to the story, that Apollo flayed Marsyas, after having defeated him in a contest of musical skill; he hung up his skin in the cave from which the sources issue, and it is for this reason that the river is called Marsyas.

NOTES: A title often given by the Greeks to the king of Persia.

Marsyas, a Phrygian satyr [goat, cappella], was so proud of his skill with the flute that he presumed to challenge Apollo, god of music and master of the lyre. The myth appears to be a record of the supersession of the flute by the lyre in Greek favour. [Apollo or Apollyon was also the father of homosexual worship]

Earthly Epigeios  Zoa, Zoon, Zoe contemptuously, may be free from this kind of animal [i.e. beggars] 

Plat. Laws 936c [936c] There shall be no beggar in our State; and if anyone attempts to beg, and to collect a livelihood by ceaseless prayers, the market-stewards shall expel him from the market, and the Board of city-stewards from the city, and from any other district he shall be driven across the border by the country-stewards, to the end that the land may be wholly purged of such a creature. If a slave, male or female, do any injury to another man's goods,  Thuc. 6.32 

Sensual Hedone enjoyment, pleasure, sensual pleasure, to humor others Hdt. 2.137 temple where ARTEMIS was worshipped.

Daimoniōdēs , es, A. like a demon, Sch.Ar.Ra.293; demoniacal, devilish, Ep.Jac.3.15; [Hoqw solomon exorcised demons with incantantations] like a daimōn,

Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 speaks of the worship of demons in connection with the rising up to play in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai."

James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable,
        gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits,
        without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

Anupokritos without dissimulation, undramatic  Hupokrites: one who answers, interpreter or expounder. one who plays a part ona state, an orator.

Jesus identified the Scribes and Pharisees as hypocrites from Isaiah. A parallel passage in Ezekiel 33 identifies the hypocrites as speakers, singers and instrument players. The MARK was that the audience was really just ignoring your message.

Plat. Tim. 72b [72b] upon these inspired divinations; and they, indeed, themselves are named “diviners” by certain who are wholly ignorant of the truth that they are not diviners but interpreters of the mysterious voice and apparition, for whom the most fitting name would be “prophets of things divined.”

Entheos A. full of the god, inspired, possessed  by PAN. The awesome feeling you get when the team performs.
Eur. Hipp. 141 Chorus
Has some god possessed you, dear girl? Do your wits wander under the spell of Pan or Hecate, the august Corybantes or Cybele, the mountain mother? [Look to the Hills Gods]  [145] Are you being worn down for some fault against Dictynna, her of the wild beasts, and are you tainted with failure to offer the holy batter? For she also haunts the Lake and passes over the dry land [150] that stands in the eddies of the surf.

Corybant A. Corybant, priest of Cybele in Phrygia. The emasculated worship ministers Paul warned about. Associated with dionysus. Poietikos Women or the effeminate bring on "wrath" which is an orgy.

Poietikos those who make their songs and sermons probably thinking they are inspired FROM ABOVE. Poetic speakers (rheroricians=hypocrites) mousikoi, hedone  Turbe disorder, confusion, tumult a baccic festival, revelry

Plat. Laws 802b [802b] To examine these and make the selection, we shall choose out men not under fifty years of age; and whichever of the ancient songs are approved we shall adopt, but whichever fail to reach our standard, or are altogether unsuitable, we shall either reject entirely or revise and remodel. For this purpose we shall call in the advice of poets and musicians, and make use of their poetical ability, without, however, trusting to their tastes or their wishes,
Soph. Ant. 964 Chorus
[955] And Dryas's son, the Edonian king swift to rage, was tamed in recompense for his frenzied insults, when, by the will of Dionysus, he was shut in a rocky prison. There the fierce and swelling force of his madness trickled away. [960] That man came to know the god whom in his frenzy he had provoked with mockeries. For he had sought to quell the god-inspired women and the Bacchanalian fire, [965] and he angered the Muses who love the flute.

Euios or the name of Bacchus (new wineskin god of gender bleed).  This is much like the "halal" cry of making self vile.
Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad.


‘How can a man be born when he is old?’ Nicodemus asked. ‘Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!’ Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Flesh gives birth to flesh,
but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

You should not be surprised at my saying, “Ya’ll must be born anothen.” The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.’ ‘How can this be?’ Nicodemus asked. ‘You are Israel's teacher,’ said Jesus, ‘and do you not understand these things?’” (John 3:1-10).

A person who is born of water receives A holy spirit: that is why baptisma means regeneration.  A person's whose SPIRIT is renewed is born again.  That is based on obedience. The same peter says that "bapptism saves" because IT is the request for A good or holy conscience.

 John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him,
        Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God:
for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

For humans to claim to be born FROM ABOVE would be to usurp the Role of Jesus Christ. He can do these miracles because God is with HIM.

First clear statement in a normal teaching session:

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,        
        Except a man be born again, he cannot SEE the kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU: you cannot see or hear it.

First clear response to this "Socratic teaching style."

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him,
        How can a man be born when he is old?
        can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

Nicodemus understands that ANOTHEN alwas means DEUTEROS: a second birth.

Natural explanation which needs no private interpretation or further expounding.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
        Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
        he cannot ENTER into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
       and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

One must be BORN AGAIN to SEE the Kingdom
One must be BORN a second time
One must be BORN of water and spirit to ENTER the kingdom.
Therefore, BORN AGAIN means BORN of water and the Spirit
We receive A holy spirit or A good conscience when we are born of water.


Nicodemus as a Jew believed in One God and HIS Spirit was His mind or power.
 No Jewish scholar thought that God was made up of three members.  Spirit in Hebrew is:
7307. ruwach, roo┤-akh; from 7306;
        by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation;
        figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality;
        by extension, a region of the sky;
        by resemblance spirit,
                but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):—
          7306. ruwach, roo┤-akh; a primitive root;
                properly, to blow, i.e. breathe;
                only (literally) to smell
                or (by implication, perceive
               (figuratively, to anticipate, enjoy):—
                accept, smell, x touch,
                        make of quick understanding.
Baptism saves you! BECAUSE you request A good conscience or A holy spirit: that is your spirit or your mind having "sins washed away."  Those sins stand between you and the Word and Kingdom. No one has that experience other than by baptism IN Water FOR the remission of sins.

A. knowledge shared with another 4. consciousness, awareness 5. consciousness of right or wrong doing, conscience
A NEW BIRTH of the human spirit means to MAKE OF QUICK UNDERSTANDING.  When we are born OUT OF Water we are given A holy spirit or A good conscience or Consciousness. That means to make us CO-perceptors of the Word of God.  Paul would say able to read BLACK text on BROWN paper after we are converted or bapptized into Christ.


John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time;
        the only begotten Son,
        which is in the bosom of the Father,
        he hath declared him.

In Philippians 2 Christ came in the form of Jesus of Nazareth:
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
The Bible most often has some contemporaneous literature to make certain that those who presume to be teachers do not lead others astray.
Hdt. 6.125 [3] Considering the nature of the gift, Alcmeon planned and employed this device: he donned a wide tunic, leaving a deep fold in it, and put on the most spacious boots that he could find, then went into the treasury to which they led him.

2 Chr 35:22 But Josiah refused to turn back. Instead he led his army into the battle at the valley of Megiddo. (He laid aside his royal robes so that the enemy wouldn't recognize him.) Josiah refused to believe that Neco's message was from God.

Hom. Il. 6.369 [395] Andromache, daughter of great-hearted EŰtion, EŰtion that dwelt beneath wooded Placus, in Thebe under Placus, and was lord over the men of Cilicia; for it was his daughter that bronze-harnessed Hector had to wife.
        She now met him, and with her came a handmaid bearing in her bosom
        [400] the tender boy, a mere babe, the well-loved son of Hector, like to a fair star.
Well begotten or only beloved son.

Agapetos of only children and, Monoo in connection with “agapētos”, it seems natural to render it, ‘the only one, the darling;’ especially as this dependence of the family of Odysseus upon a single heir was evidently a familiar idea
Monoo [one child] Genea  I. of the persons in a family, 1. race, family
John 1:19 And this is the record of John,
        when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
John 1:31 And I knew him not:
        but that he should be made manifest to Israel,
        therefore am I come baptizing with water.
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,
        that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea;
        and there he tarried with them, and baptized.  
John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees
        had heard that Jesus made
        and baptized more disciples than John,
John 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
The Ekklesia or Synagogue is a SCHOOL (only) of the WORD (only) of Christ. No one who was not a BIRTHED citizen of Greece could participate in the ekklesia or synagogue.  None of them could originate what was to be discussed and resolved.  Assuredly anyone who sang or played an instrument would be hurt in all of the right places.

Baptism gives us A holy spirit (Acts 2:38) or A good conscience, consciousness or co-perception (1 Peter 3:21).  Only those saved at Baptism were given A new birth and were added to the Kingdom of Christ which is the Church of Christ.  The SOLE role of the ekklesia is defined by direct commands.  Jesus as the NAME of Father, Son and Spirit commanded.
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore,
    and teach [discipe] all nations,
    baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
    God gives them A holy spirit or A good conscience before you can discern.
   Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
    and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt. 28:20
The RESOURCE is specificially the PROPHETS and the Prophecies made more certain or fulfilled. That is the exclusive songs and sermons and a false teacher is one who private interprets or further expounds.

Always literally the spirit means WIND or BREATH.  

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3:8 The wind [spirit] bloweth where it listeth,
        and thou hearest the sound thereof,
        but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:
        so is every one that is born of [ex] the spirit 
EVERY ONE is LIKE the wind. Why should a "rabbi" be able to read but not comprehend while the poor in spirit breath forth the truth. When a believer breats SPIRIT by teaching that which has been taught it will always get him into trouble.

 from within,
out from the interior of a thing,
A. With verbs of taking out, or, in gen., of taking, receiving, deriving (both physically and mentally; so of perceiving, comprehending, inquiring, learning, hoping, etc.) 
If AGAIN does not mean a SECOND TIME then this is a sound and fury: 
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing
Are Jesus and Nicodemus really just a preacher and an audience.  When we are ADDED to the Church of Christ we become disciples of Christ. Disciples do not do ritualistic worship but they attend School of the Words of Christ.

When we request A good conscience so that we can be added to the church or school of Christ, God washes us with water INTO the Word and the ekklesia or School of Christ.
Eph. 5:26WEB That he might sanctify and cleanse it
        with the washing of water
        [INTO] the word,
        WEB  In endu denotes either rest or motion within or into a place or thing;

Washing of water into:
assume the person on, enter, enter the contest,
Xen. Cyrop. 8.1.12 If, therefore, those by whom the most numerous and most important affairs of state were to be transacted were not what they ought to be, he thought that his government would be a failure. But if they were all that they ought to be, he believed that everything would succeed. In this conviction, therefore, he took upon himself this charge; and he determined that the same practice of virtue should be his as well.
        For he thought that it was not possible for him to incite others
        to good and noble deeds, if he were not himself such as he ought to be.

Enduo (g1746) en-doo'-o; from 1722 and 1416 (in the sense of sinking into a garment); to invest with clothing (lit. or fig.): - array, clothe (with), endue, have (put) on.

for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Ga.3:27NIV

Washing of water into: 
Vulgate In the Word. Il.; en paidotribou the school of the training master.
1Cor. 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ,
        yet have ye not many fathers:
        for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1Cor. 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
1Cor. 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
Not even Timothy was so estranged from God that he dared to IMAGINE what he should teach.

Washing of water into: Eis Into, rest in a place, when a previous motion into or to it is implied,
          pempein eis didaskalōn send to school, X.Lac.2.1;
Pempo eis didaskalōn send to school, Pl.Prt.325d
Plat. Prot. 325d [325d] that the child may excel, and as each act and word occurs they teach and impress upon him that this is just, and that unjust, one thing noble, another base, one holy, another unholy, and that he is to do this, and not do that. If he readily obeys,—
so; but if not, they treat him as a bent and twisted piece of wood and straighten him with threats and blows. After this they send them to school and charge the master to take far more pains over their children's good behavior than over their letters
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
        baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son,
        and of the Holy Ghost:
Matt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matheteuo to mak a disciple of, instruct
Didasko  to teach what Jesus Christ commanded
Jesus repudiated music.
 Xenophon, Xen. Const. Lac. 2.1

Having dealth with the subject of birth, 
I wish next to explain the educational system [paideia] of Lycurgus, and how it differs from other systems.

In the other Greek states parents who profess to give their sons the best education place their boys under the care and control of a moral [Kalos] tutor as soon as they can understand what is said to them, and send them to a school to learn letters, music [poetry, art or letters, grammar, writing] and the exercises of the wrestling-ground. Moreover, they soften the children's feet by giving them sandals, and pamper their bodies with changes of clothing; and it is customary to allow them as much food as they can eat. 

Washing of water into:  Metaphor: ho nomos p. eis Khriston has guided us until attainment of faith in Christ, Ep.Gal.3.24:

Gal. 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, 
        that we might be justified by faith.
Gal. 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal. 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal. 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
        have put on Christ.

We have been clothed with the toga of Jesus Christ. He is our SOLE teacher. We are not under Pedagogues needed to take us to school and scold us.

Washing of water into:  Enduo be clothed with to identify with another person.  Enter the contest, undertake, sink into,
Hom. Il. 2.35 He sat upright and did on his soft tunic, fair and glistering, and about him cast his great cloak, and beneath his shining feet he bound his fair sandals, [45] and about his shoulders flung his silver-studded sword; and he grasped the sceptre of his fathers, imperishable ever, and therewith took his way along the ships of the brazen-coated Achaeans.

We DO NOT use Lifeless Instruments or Carnal Weapons.

Eph. 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
        but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
        against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Pale (g3823) pal'-ay; from pallo, (to vibrate; another form for 906); wrestling: - / wrestle 

Pall˘, poise, sway a missile before it is thrown, sway, brandish, she drove it furiously, tripped on the shield-rim, quiver, leap, esp. in fearII. Pass., swing, dash oneself, Pi.N.5.21; vibrate, of strings, Pl.Phd.94c (psalloito ap. Stob.);  leap, bound, quiver, quake,  
[94c] in countless other ways?”
“Did we not agree in our previous discussion that it could never, if it be a harmony, give forth a sound at variance with the tensions and relaxations and vibrations and other conditions of the elements which compose it, but that it would follow them and never lead them?”

“Yes,” he replied, “we did, of course.”

“Well then, do we not now find that the soul acts in exactly the opposite way, leading those elements of which it is said to consist and opposing them
We DO NOT: PSALLO to pluck the hair, to send a shaft twanging from a bow. We do not make musical melody.

We DO NOT: CantoIII. In the lang. of religion, as v. n. or a., to use enchantments, charms, incantations, to enchant, to charm, cantata Luna, exorcised by magic, ignis, Cantus With instruments, a playing, music: in nervorum vocumque cantibus, citharae, horribili stridebat tibia cantu

Eph. 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,
          that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day,
         and having done all, to stand.
Eph. 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth,
         and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph. 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph. 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith,
         wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Horace Odes 2.8
Ay, Venus smiles; the pure nymphs smile,
And Cupid, tyrant-lord of hearts,
Sharpening on bloody stone the while
His fiery darts.

New captives fill the nets you weave;
New slaves are bred; and those before,
Though oft they threaten, never leave
Your godless door.
Eph. 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
 Duo II. of clothes and armour, get into, Hom. Il. 6.332

Eph. 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him,
        and have been taught by him,
        as the truth is in Jesus:

Eph. 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man,
        which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph. 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph. 4:24 And that ye put on the new man,
        which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph. 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying,
        speak every man truth with his neighbour:
        for we are members one of another.

Eph. 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church,
        not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
        but that it should be holy and without blemish

Endox-os ; having a high reputation. Not resting on opinion, prabable, generally admitted, Sophois opposite to what is true, Sullogizomai [logical,] opposite to Alethes not truthful, pseudes or Mutheh-eomai speaking loosly of poets
A person born of the spirit is regenerated and the old breath goes away. We begin to breath words which ARE Spirit and ARE Life and the walls come tumbling down among the principalities and powers in high places.

Maybe Jesus gives us some clear answers.

John 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him,
        Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Any master of Israel would understand that proselyte baptism in WATER asked to become a Jew. They would receive the spirit OF adoption. The Wind or breath of Christ blows eternal truth but carnal people do not think it blows from God.

"Spirit without measure" gave Jesus as the Son the power to SPEAK the words of God.  Jesus' roll was to SPEAK: Nicodemus' role was to BELIEVE.

John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
        We speak that we do know,
        and testify that we have seen;
        and ye receive not our witness.

The Breath of "father" spoke in Jesus as "son" and Nicodemus is not to doubt. YOU do not yet understand from Whom this Breath or Wind comes.

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not,
        how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven,
        but he that came down from heaven,
        even the Son of man which is in heaven.

If you are a MAN then you are earthly and YOU have not come DOWN from heaven and YOU know only what everyone else knows by reading the text.

His words are Spirit and Life.  The Scribes and Pharisees, the doctors of the Law could not determine that the "wind" was from heaven. They used their own imagination and therefore Jesus called them hypocrites defined in Ezekiel 33 as speakers, singers and instrument players.

WE are BORN FROM THE EARTH and we do not speak heavenly imaginations.

A person who speaks the Words (Spirit) of Christ is sending out the most powerful thing in the world.  They might not appreciate it: they may construct "church" or "university" to take away the keys to knowledge.  However, it is a sharp sword and will remove the tumors or execute you.  The viper race was promised a baptism of WIND and of FIRE: the context is God using wind or breath (not a person) to separate the chaff from the grain.
Ezek. 12:13 My net also will I spread upon him,
        and he shall be taken in my snare:
        and I will bring him to Babylon to the land of the Chaldeans
        yet shall he not see it, though he shall die there.
Ezek. 12:14 And I will scatter toward every wind  [h7307 "spirit"]
        all that are about him to help him,
        and all his bands; and I will draw out the sword after them.
John York: Conversations always have contexts, and that becomes difficult for us sometimes when we are reading what appear to be rather flat texts. The only emotions that we hear are the ones we read into these words. The setting may be described within the text, but our imaginations have to fill in the gaps.
And in the case of stories like this one,
we also must imagine conversation in language
other than the one we are reading.

For those who think that they are BORN FROM ABOVE with the Spirit literally guiding them. Two thousand years of scholarship does not give us the ability to see beyond the sacred pages.

Jesus was not having a friendly conversation:
He was preaching the gospel as the only power to save. Jesus OUTLAWED using human imagination--only evil continueally--and never required if you give away the Free Water of the Word.  Otherwise, this is like PRETENDING to be a WIFE:
Prostitutĭo , ōnis, f. prostituo.
I. Prostitution, Arn. 2, 53; Tert. Pudic. 6; Aug. in Psa. 128, 6.—Plur.: “ mulierum,Lact. 5, 8, 7.—
II. In gen., a dishonoring, profaningimaginum,
         Mulier II. Transf., as a term of reproach, a woman, i. e. a coward, poltroon:
Imago I. an imitation, copy of a thing, an image, likeness (i. e. a picture, statue, mask, an apparition, ghost, phantom;
        II. Transf.reverberation of sound, an echo  Resono With dat.:  “suave locus voci resonat conclusus,echoes to the voice: carmina resonantia to the strings,  Spectacle

Plaudo to clap the hands, In the theatre, at the close of the piece: nunc, spectatores, Jovis summi causā clare plaudite,
Tuba  Apart from military purposes, it was used on various occasions, as at religious festivals, games,funeral. A signal for war, roar of thunder, sonorous, elevated epic poetry, lofty style of speaking.
I. Trop.: “tuba belli civilis,” i. e. exciter, author, instigator, Cic. Fam. 6, 12, 3: “rixae,
Outlawed for the Church of Christ in the wilderness.

These people rejoic eover "Civil War" marked by the music in the holy place.

Outlawed for the Church of Christ in the wilderness.
Rom. 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Disputing” implies a questioning mind and suggests an arrogant attitude by those who assume they’re always right. Arguing with others in the body of Christ is disruptive. That’s why Paul spent the first part of chapter 2 on humility.

To dwell above, with saints we love, that will be grace and glory
But to live below with saints we know, now that’s a different story!

Dialogismos is used 11 times in the Septuagint (LXX) (Ps 40:5, 56:5, 92:5, 94:11, 139:2, 139:20, 146:4, Isa 59:7, Jer 4:14, Lam 3:60-61) Dialogismos often means the perverse, vain thinking which contemplates destruction (Ps. 94:11), and is turned against God (Jer. 4:14; Isa. 59:7) and against the godly (Ps. 56:5).

Jer 14:13 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them, Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.

Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Jer 14:15 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.

It is not possible--even for mysticism--to get out of the human mind anything good. The Words of God are mixed up fith fractions of our old memories and remembeing what happened to me at age 3 is vivid, but false. What I remember is what I was told by my mother.


"The actual practice of lectio divina begins with a time of relaxation, making oneself comfortable and clearing the mind of mundane thoughts and cares. Some lectio practitioners find it helpful to concentrate by beginning with deep, cleansing breaths and reciting a chosen phrase or word over and over to help free the mind] Then they begin with the four steps:
Lectio - Reading the Bible passage gently and slowly several times.
        The passage itself is not as important
        as the savoring of each portion of the reading,
        constantly listening for the "still, small voice" of a word or phrase
        that somehow speaks to the practitioner

Meditatio - Reflecting on the text of the passage and] hinking about how it applies to one's own life. This is considered to be a very personal reading of the Scripture and very personal application.

But, Peter outlawed private interpretation of further expounding.

Oratio – Responding to the passage
      by opening the heart to God.
      This is not primarily an intellectual exercise,  [spirit means mind means the intellect]
      but is thought to be more of the beginning of a conversation with God.

Contemplatio -
       Listening to God. This is a freeing of oneself
       from one's own thoughts, both mundane and holy,
       and hearing God talk to us.
       Opening the mind, heart, and soul to the influence of God.


The word of Christ is like the sword of the Spirit: it breaths out and will tumble the walls of those who built out of their own IMAGINATION when they have seen nothing.
Luke 1:51 He hath shewed strength with his arm;
        he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
Luke 1:52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats,
        and exalted them of low degree.
 If not totally, we can pray for a speedy scattering of the proud who have seen nothing. 
Ezek. 13:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Ezek. 13:2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy,
        and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts,
        Hear ye the word of the LORD;
Ezek. 13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD;
        Woe unto the foolish prophets,
        that follow their own spirit,
        and have seen nothing!
Ezek. 13:4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
Ezek. 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps,
        neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel
        to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
Ezek. 13:6 They have seen vanity and lying divination,
        [witchcraft, magical scroll, soothsayer]
        saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them:
        and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
Ezek. 13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision,
        and have ye not spoken a lying divination,
        whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
Ezek. 13:10 Because, even because they have seduced my people,
        saying, Peace; and there was no peace;
        and one built up a wall, and, lo,
        others daubed it with untempered morter:
Ezek. 13:11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter,
        that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower;
        and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.
Ezek. 13:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD;
        I will even rend it with a stormy wind [spirit] in my fury;
        and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger,
        and great hailstones in my fury to consume it.
John York: And we must realize that in our efforts this morning to engage this story,
        we’re actually attempting to overhear 3 or 4 different conversations!

There is the most obvious – a first century world encounter between Jesus and the Pharisee named Nicodemus.
Matt. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism,
        he said unto them, O generation of vipers,
        who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Matt. 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Matt. 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves,
        We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you,
        that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Matt. 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees:
        therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down,
        and cast into the fire.
Matt. 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:
        but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:
        he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Those who rejected water baptism rejected the command of God. Those who were not FIT to repent and be baptized with water would be BLOWN by an angry WIND into a heap to be burned with FIRE.

he shall baptize you with the WIND, and with FIRE:

Matt. 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand,
        and he will throughly purge his floor,
        and gather his wheat into the garner;
        but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

CHRIST in Isaiah 30 shows that "hell" was specificially prepared to house His enemies. The SOUNDS or MARKS of God driving His enemies into hell are the wind, string and percussion instruments Lucifer brought with her into the garden of Eden.

Ezekiel 30 to see the doom of musical discorders.

Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans,
        justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves,
        being not baptized of him.
Luke 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the MEN of this generation?
        and to what are they like?
Luke 7:32 They are like unto CHILDREN sitting in the marketplace,
        and calling one to another, and saying,
        We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced;
        we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

The Scribes and Pharisees (writers theologians) HAD repudiated Christ in the Old Testament: Jesus called them hypocrites pointing to speakers, singers and instrument player.
When you are part of a BAND OF MEN having rejected the Word you literally have lost the power to believe.
John 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart;
        that they should not see with their eyes,
        nor understand with their heart, [believe]
        and be converted,                        [be baptized]
        and I should heal them.               [receive A holy spirit]
John 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
John 12:42 Nevertheless
        among the chief rulers also many believed on him;
        but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, 
        lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
John 12:43
For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.  
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
        even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
        but have eternal life.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
        that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world;
        but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned:
        but he that believeth not is condemned already,
        because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation,
        that light is come into the world,
        and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,
        neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,
        that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God

 THIS OBJECTIVE TEACHING SESSION IS OVER. John doesn't have poor memory: he is inspired.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea;
        and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
John 3:23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim,
        because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
John 3:24 For John was not yet cast into prison.

Vocal and instrumental rejoicing was OUTLAWED for the Church of Christ in the Wilderness and that never changed. The obvious reason is that you cannot see the LIGHT when you are singing or making music or trying to EXPLAIN Jesus.


John York: There is also the conversation going on between the writer and his original audience.
        This second conversation is critical to our understanding
        of the imbedded context for this night-time visit.

John’s conversation with his audience includes words from chapter one about the images of darkness and light – truth and deception. It includes words from the previous narrative in the story about people believing in Jesus because of the signs that he perform, but Jesus not entrusting himself to anyone who believes only because of signs.

In John’s presentation of Jesus,
        there is a mysterious blending of the voice of John speaking [John wrote] to his audience
        and Jesus speaking inside the gospel account
        so that the Johannine Jesus is presented afresh to John’s audience.

The only lawful role in the church is to teach that which has been taught.
Is. 50:10 Who is among you that feareth the LORD,
        that obeyeth the voice of his servant,
        that walketh in darkness, and hath no light?
        let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God.
Is. 50:11 Behold, all ye that kindle a fire
        That compass yourselves about with sparks:

        walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled.
This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.
John York and Rubel Shelly believe that someone had to push John into writing His account. So, in imagination, John has forgotten the whole event but has some fragments of memory to work on so he just CONSTRUCTS out of his poor memory.  That denies that John was inspired.  However, imagining something and selling it is "private interpretation" or further expounding Peter left as a MARK of a false teacher (2 Peter 1-2).  That is called spiritual prostitution

However, Matthew has Jesus telling a similar account so that we cannot get confused over John 3 and have to hallucinate:

Matt. 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
Matt. 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you,
        Except ye be converted, and become AS little children,
        ye shall not ENTER into the kingdom of heaven.  

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him,
        Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
        Except a man be born again,
        he cannot SEE the kingdom of God.
A MAN is not still in the womb: A MAN must be born again to see and enter the kingdom.
At Baptism God in Christ gives us A new or holy spirit.
Then HE adds us to His church or kingdom.

John 3:25 Then there arose a question between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purifying.
Katharmos A. cleansing, purification, from guilt. purificatory offering, atonement, expiation
Paul risked his life by barging into Jerusalem just to be able to define TRUE PURIFICATION. Here is what Paul told the Jews and made them angry: that may be why preachers REFUSE to teach the Word:
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou?
        arise, and be baptized,
        and wash away thy sins,
        calling on the name of the Lord.
Baptism REQUESTS A good conscience which is A holy spirit. That is the only Christ ordained way that He promises us freedom from the penalty and consciousness of Guilt. Only when our OLD spirit has been purges are we able to hear the Word of God which indwells us as SPIRIT and LIFE.

John 3:26 And they came unto John, and said unto him,
        Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness,
        behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
John 3:27 John answered and said,
        A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ,
        but that I am sent before him.
John 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom:
        but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him,
        rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice:
        this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

This doesn't sound like John York and Rubel Shelly's claim that John was chided into writing his gospel account. Because he was old and had only dim fragments of the ACTUAL EVENT he simply gave us his understanding. We, too, can take those old fragments and write our OWN account.

If one must be born FROM ABOVE, and one is PROCREATED by the Father, and born again is the same as converted, how would one become DEgenerated and need conversion:
G1080  gennaō ghen-nah'-o From a variation of G1085 ; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate:—bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

There is no Greek word for "converted" which includes born FROM ABOVE.

To be converted is used equivalent to being baptized to be born again. Only after you are saved at Baptism does Jesus Christ add you to His church which is His kingdom.
Conversion is parallel to Baptism

3. . turn or convert from an error, correct, cause to repent
. Philos., cause
Composed of the words:
       Proteros and pr˘tos  II. of Time, former, earlier, children by the first or a former marriage,
       Prosthhen in front, before, formerly, of place and of time;
                            to gennŕthen phusei pros to gennŕsan

Which produces:

        Genn-a˘ beget, bring forth, engender, call into existence
        Phuo 1 Act.:--bring forth, produce, put forth, 2. beget, engender, get understanding,
        Pros in the direction of
        Genn-a˘ beget, bring forth, engender, call into existence
Converted in Latin is:
prŏsēlytus , II. Esp., one that has come over from heathenism to the Jewish religion, a proselyte Matt 23:15
There are two EXAMPLES by Jesus and two PRACTICES recorded by Luke in Acts 2 and 3. They dquate being baptized, to being born of water and spirit to being converted. All of these are return to one's previous STATE before sin corrupted the original condition.    
John York: John writes in Greek – we usually assume that Jesus spoke throughout his ministry in Aramaic. But this story uses word plays that depend on a Greek word that has no equivalent in Aramaic.

Well, we just don't know, do we.  The Persians had pushed fully into Turkey and were repelled from Greece.  John is on an Island and under continuing Syriac influence.  At any rate, he would know both languages and he was writing to the Seven Churches of Asia in Revelation. Here is the Aramaic.
4. Nicodemus said to him, "How can an old man get born, how can he
enter his mother's womb a second time*, to become born [again?]
5. Jesus replied and said to him, "Amen, amen, I am telling you, if [the]
human [being] is not born from the waters and the Spirit, they cannot
enter the Kingdom of God.
We can be sure that the others preached the same gospel.

One of the ways to understand Scripture is to to look at the context, parallel examples, how the words are used in the ancient literature and whether competent scholars translate it to fit out driven purpose.  For instance,

Gen. 29:34 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Now this time will my husband be joined unto me, because I have born him three sons: therefore was his name called Levi. H5750 ode, ode From

H5749 ; properly iteration or continuance; used only adverbially (with or without preposition), again, repeatedly, still, more:—again, X all life long, at all, besides, but, else, further (-more), henceforth, (any) longer, (any) more (-over), X once, since, (be) still, when, (good, the) while (having being), (as, because, whether, while) yet (within).
When you are born of the spirit (your mind) you are born AGAIN: Christ does not need any others born FROM ABOVE as Second Incarnations.

John York:
Some of you fixed the reading in your heads a few moments ago when we encountered the word anothen. It’s a Greek adverb that can mean more than one thing, depending on context.
In fact in our English translation, we have to add another layer of dialogue among the translators.
Did Jesus say to Nicodemus, “Unless one is born again, he cannot enter the Kingdom” or did he say, “Unless one is born from above, he cannot enter the Kingdom”?
No problem if you can define the word which is clear. When Jesus promised Himself as another comforter, He said "I will not leave you as orphans."  When a proselyte became a Jew, he was baptized and born again with new clothing and a new name. The "second" birht is expressed by several words and is not a unique concept.
Plato, Laws Plat. Laws 11.926d On him that is defeated there shall be imposed by the lawgiver censure and disgrace,—a penalty heavier than a large fine in the eyes of a man of right mind. Accordingly, orphan children will undergo a kind of second birth. How in each case they should be reared and trained
Genesis beginning. Deuteros a second time.
i.e. be “born again” as children of the State, with the Law-wardens as their new official parents, as explained below.

Plato warns about drinking wine by women likely to get pregnant.
[926e] after their first birth we have already described; and now we must contrive some means whereby, after their second birth [deuteros]
n which they are destitute of parents,
        their orphan condition may be as free as possible from piteous misery
        for those who have become orphans.
In the first place, to act in the room of their begetters, as parents of no inferior kind, we must legally appoint the Law-wardens; and we charge three of these, year by year, to care for the orphans as their own, having already given both to these men and to the guardians a suitable prelude of directions concerning the nurture of orphans. Opportune, indeed, as I think, was the account we previously gave.

While God in Christ gives US A holy spirit or A good conscience this in no way fits the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit."  Later John York will suggest:
John York: Could it be that American Christianity, like Nicodemus,
        desperately needs disorentation,
        needs to lose the comfort and security of all that gives us
                our own set of right answers,
                our own control,
                our own loss of hospitality to the other –
                    [being exclusive not being friendly with those trying to impose instruments]
                to all who don’t look just like us?
That once more, we need the Spirit to descend from above that we might be born anothen?!

Theologians and philosophers have no reason to be either Bible or history students: it simply is not required and therefore not acquired.  This urge to UPSET people's comfort zone or SOW DISCORD has the intention of burning down the old human and rebuilding on the ashes.  Hitler defined the process exactly and used Wagner as his musical worship minister and Wagner's wife for other.

Part of the change agenda is to induce DISSORENTATION into the people to make them suspect or evendespise their old form of worship.  This is demonstrated by a long series of sermons by Rubel Shelly where all known RACA words are flung at the conservative or non-instrumental churches. This induces fear to make the outlawed personal "reading, interpreting and reading" fear and tremble. Then while you have them upset you can use Lynn Anderson's Navigating the Winds of Change to slowly introduce what YOU want them to believe.  And that is usually based on Theology which has no genetic relationship to being a Disciple.

Con-fundo  B. Meton 2. Esp., with the idea of confounding, disarranging, to confound, confuse, jumble together, bring into disorder,  i. e. to disfigure the features, make them undistinguishable. Disorder the memories Liv. 5 50 
    b. Trop., of intellectual confusion, to disturb, disconcert, confound, perplex 
Clamor: I. A loud call, a shout, cry; of men and (poet.) of animals (very freq. in all periods and species of composition) B. In partic., a friendly call, acclamation, applause:

Turbo I. fut. perf. turbassit, for turbaverit, Cic. Leg. 3, 4; al. turbassitur) [turba], to disturb, agitate, confuse, disorder; to throw into disorder or confusion (freq. and class.; syn.: confundo, misceo, agito).
THE GOSPEL Violated by people PRESUMING to upset our comfort Zones as a Hegelian change effort.


All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Matthew 11:27

Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Matthew 11:29

Phortizo (g5412) for-tid'-zo; from 5414; to load up (prop. as a vessel or animal), i.e. (fig.) to overburden with ceremony (or spiritual anxiety):- lade, be heavy laden.
Ep˘idos , on, epaid˘ A. singing to or over, using songs or charms to heal wounds, ep˘idoi muthoi Pl.Lg.903b .  b. Subst., enchanter, e. kai goŕs E.Hipp. 1038 (but goŕs e. Ba.234): c. gen., a charm for or against,  c. c. dat., assisting, profitable,  2. Pass., sung to music, ph˘nai Plu.2.622d ; fit for singing, poiŕtikŕn e. parechein S.E.M.6.16 .  2. ep˘idos, ho, verse or passage returning at intervals, in Alcaics and Sapphics, D.H.Comp.19 ; chorus, burden, 
Aristoph. Peace 748 Undoubtedly the comic poet who [735] mounted the stage to praise himself in the parabasis would deserve to be handed over to the sticks of the beadles. Nevertheless, oh Muse, if it be right to esteem the most honest and illustrious of our comic writers at his proper value, permit our poet to say that he thinks he has deserved a glorious renown... “Wretch, what has happened to your hide? Has the lash rained an army of its thongs on you and laid your back waste?” After having delivered us from all these wearisome ineptitudes and these low buffooneries, he has built up for us a great art, like a palace with high towers, [750] constructed of fine phrases, great thoughts and of jokes not common on the streets.

See that REST outlaws all theatrics which arouses excitement.

The other--female driven--urge is to UPSET PEOPLE'S COMFORT ZONES.
John York: The translators make a decision, put the alternative in the footnote, and move on.

The problem is that Jesus seems to intentionally use the ambiguity of double entendre to respond to Nicodemus.
Um! Big Chief speak with forked tongue? Jesus lets us know when he is speaking in parables:
Double entendre: Often the first meaning is straightforward, while the second meaning is less so: often risquÚ, inappropriate

All pagan and the Vineyard musical activity invites the spirit to come.
Nocodemus knew that A MAN cannot enter into the womb and be born again. Therefore, born of water cannot mean born of amniotic fluid.  None of us would understand this demand.  Nicodemus responds logically and Jesus tells him CLEARLY that he should be BORN AGAIN, all over.  He must be BORN (out of) Water and Spirit.  Peter understood it.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them,
        Repent, and be baptized every one of you
        in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins,
        and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.  

Your spirit is UNholy: when sins are remitted or washed away then YOU have A holy spirit just like a little child not loaded down with guilt.

1Pet. 3:21 The like figure whereunto
        even baptism doth also now save us
        (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
        but the request for a good conscience toward God,)
        by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Apparently, Nicodemus hears Jesus suggest that one must be born “again.”
In the larger context, Jesus seems to mean born “from above.

We have seen the logical, adult conversation: you must be born AGAIN (Anothen). Nicodemus heard you must be born A SECOND TIME (Deuteros). Jesus responded, logically, you must be born of WATER and SPIRIT.  We have seen in other passages that one is born of WATER and into the WORD or the School of the Spirit which is the Word of Christ. (John 6:63)

Are we to assume that Jesus The Christ of God was stupid?  He could easily have used a word meaning "from on High" which is used of Himself

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
        Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
        he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
        and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 3.[7] non mireris quia dixi tibi oportet vos nasci denuo

Nascor B. Esp., of the spiritual renewal of a religious experience, to be regenerated, born again (eccl. Lat.): “quod natum est ex spiritu, spiritus est,Vulg. Johan. 3, 6: “nasci denuo,id. ib. 3, 7: “natus ex Deo,id. 1 Johan. 3, 9,

Denuo I. Of the restoration of a thing which has been destroyed, = de integro, anew, afresh, ek kainēs: “aedificantur aedes totae denuo,Plaut. Most. 1, 2, 36; cf.: “urbes terrae motu subversas denuo condidit,Suet. Aug. 47: “oportet vos nasci denuo,Vulg. Joan. 3, 7. —
Jesus didn't promise him something from Heaven:
Luke 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God;
        whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
Luke 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death,
        to guide our feet into the way of peace.
Jesus didn't promise him any kind of supernatural gift of knowledge.
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you:
        but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

G5311 hupsos hoop'-sos From a derivative of G5228 ; elevation, that is, (abstractly) altitude, (specifically) the sky, or (figuratively) dignity:—be exalted, height, (on) high.

 A. from above, from on high,theous a. gēs epopteuein akhēAesch. Ag. 1579

Aesch. Ag. 1577 Aegisthus


A small part of the wealth is fully enough for me, if I may but rid these halls [1575] of the frenzy of mutual murder.....  Hail gracious light of the day of retribution! At last the hour has come when I can say that the gods who avenge mortal men look down from on high upon the crimes of earth. [1580] Now that, to my joy, I behold this man lying here in a robe spun by the Avenging Spirits and making full payment for the deeds contrived in craft by his father's hand.

Thucydides Thuc. 4.75  [2] And not long after, Lamachus that was gone into Pontus, as he lay at anchor in the river Calex in the territory of Heracleia, much rain having fallen above in the country and the stream of a land flood coming suddenly down, lost all his galleys and came himself and his army through the territory of the Bithynians

Thuc. 7.84 [3] When they were come unto the river, they rushed in without any order, every man striving who should first get over. But the pressing of the enemy made the passage now more difficult. For being forced to take the river in heaps, they fell upon and trampled one another under their feet; and falling amongst the spears and utensils of the army, some perished presently; and others, catching hold one of another, were carried away together down the stream. [4] And [not only] the Syracusians standing along the farther bank, being a steep one, killed the Athenians with their shot from above as they were many of them greedily drinking and troubling one another in the hollow of the river; [5] but the Peloponnesians came also down and slew them with their swords, and those especially that were in the river. And suddenly the water was corrupted; nevertheless they drunk it, foul as it was with blood and mire; and many also fought for it.
The Water of the Word is still FREE and it is still PURE: Jesus put it into CLAY VESSELS to make sure that no one could add poison to it.


Anothen  2. like anō, above, on high, opp. katōthen or katō, A.Ag.871 (dub.): of the gods, Id.Supp.597 
Suppliant Women

Again: Chorus

[595] He does not sit upon his throne by mandate of another and hold his dominion beneath a mightier. No one sits above him whose power he holds in awe. He speaks, and it is done—he hastens to execute whatever his counselling mind conceives.
The full force of this majestic and awe-inspiring passage, recalling the solemnity of Isaiah, can be reproduced only by paraphrase. Nearer the original is: “He does not, sitting <upon his throne> by the authority of any, bear a lesser sway delegated by superiors ... But with him the deed is as the word to do swiftly anything that his counselling mind conceives.”

Rubel Shelly: April 4-6, 2002 Putting on a new pair of glasses makes what was distorted now focused and clear.

We see the world as it really is -
not what
our old glasses led us to see.

The Body of Christ needs to re-vision - to look through new glasses for a fresh perspective.
Plat. Laws 717b
[717b] as also in assigning to the former gods the things superior, the opposites of these. Next after these gods the wise man will offer worship to the daemons, and after the daemons to the heroes. After these will come private shrines legally dedicated to ancestral deities; and next, honors paid to living parents. For to these duty enjoins that the debtor should pay back the first and greatest of debts, the most primary of all dues, and that he should acknowledge that all that he owns and has belongs to those who begot and reared him,

This account of the ritual proper to the worship of the various deities is obscure. Plainly, however, it is based on the Pythagorean doctrine of “Opposites,” in which the Odd (number) is “superior” to the Even, and the “Right” (side Left Brain) to the Left (as also the “Male” to the “Female”). It is here laid down that “honors” (or worship) of the “superior” grade are to be offered only to the deities of Olympus, or of the State, and inferior honors only to the deities of the underworld. In Greek augury, also, the left was the side of ill omen (sinister), whereas in Roman augury the right is so.

Anothen  II. in narrative or in quiry, from the beginning, from farther back,

We will see that Baptism results in REgeneration or conversion which means to return to our nativity.
2. higher, more universal principles, Pl.Phd.101d
Plato, Phaedo [101d] your inexperience and would be afraid, as the saying goes, of your own shadow;
so you would cling to that safe principle of ours and would reply as I have said. And if anyone attacked the principle, you would pay him no attention and you would not reply to him until you had examined the consequences to see whether they agreed with one another or not; and when you had to give an explanation of the principle, you would give it in the same way by assuming some other principle which seemed to you the best of the higher ones
Afraid  Skia The Law of moses was a SHADOW meaning totally eroneous. 
3. over again, anew, afresh, renewed friendship J.AJ1.18.3, Artem.1.14, cf. Ev.Jo.3.3; “palin a.Ep.Gal.4.9. anadikoi kriseis; ktistēs anōthe genomenos IG7.2712.58.
J. AJ 1.18.3[263] It was now that Isaac's affairs increased, and in a flourishing condition; and this his great riches. But Abimelech, thinking in opposition to him, while their living made them suspicious of each other, and retiring showing a secret enmity also, he was afraid that his former friendship with Isaac would not secure him, if Isaac should endeavor the injuries he had formerly offered him; he therefore renewed his friendship with him, Philoc, one of his generals. And when he had obtained every thing he desired, by reason of Isaac's good nature, who preferred the earlier friendship Abimelech had shown to himself and his father to his later wrath against him, he returned home.

Galatians 4.9 [9] But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, why do you turn back again to the weak and miserable elements, to which you desire to be in bondage all over again?

Ptokhos II. as Adj., beggarly, “ptōkhō diaitēS.OC751; “p. stoikheiaEp.Gal.4.9: c. gen., beggared of, poor in, [“pēgē p. numphōnAP9.258 (Antiphan.).
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
        Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
        he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
        and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Anorthoō A. set up again, restore, rebuild, ton nēonHdt.1.19; “to teikhos7.208; “to stratopedonTh.6.88, etc.; “to sōma tinosE.Ba.364:—Med., anorthousthai ta piptonta tōn oikodomēmatōn have them rebuilt, Arist.Pol.1322b20.

restore to health or well being.polinS.OT46: “tinaPl.Lg.919d.
Pl.Lg.919d. [919d] by shamelessness and meanness of soul. After the declarations now made, let our law on these matters (Heaven prosper it!) run in this wise:—
        Amongst the Magnesians whom the god is restoring and founding afresh,
        none of all the landholders who belong to the houses shall, either willingly or unwillingly,
        become a retail trader or a merchant, or engage in any menial service for private persons
        who do not make an equal return to himself, save only for his father and mother

Emporos importer, trafficker in life and speech
Kapelos retail-dealer, huckster, cheating, knavish, opposite the PRODUCER
See Plato, Sophists [231d] below

 broker, agent, huckster, hawker, peddler. II. Trop.: “eloquentiae,who hawks about his eloquence, makes an exhibition of it, Quint. 11, 1, 50; id. 8, 3, 12
Quint. Inst. 8 3.12 [12] Consequently the orator, like the hawker who displays his wares, will set forth before his audience for their inspection, nay, almost for their handling, all his most attractive reflexions, all the brilliance that language and the charm that figures can supply, together with all the magnificence of metaphor and the elaborate art of composition that is at his disposal. For his success concerns himself, and not his cause.
Elaboro I. Neutr., to labor, endeavor, exert one's self, take pains either successfully or perseveringly II. Act., to labor on, take pains with, to work out, elaborate
2Cor. 2:17 For we are not as many,
        which corrupt the word of God:
        but as of sincerity, but as of God,
        in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Adultero II. Fig., to falsify, adulterate, or give a foreign nature to a thing, to counterfeit

1Tim. 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words,
        even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ,
        and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Tim. 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words,
        whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Tim. 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth,
        supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
Plato, Sophist [231d] the number of forms in which the sophist has appeared to us. First, I believe, he was found to be a paid [mercenary]  hunter after the young and wealthy.
Sophistes A. master of one's craft, adept, expert, of diviners, of poets, of musicians, harp players. Thaumastos a lying wonder to be worshipped. Professors of Rhetoric.
Hunter Thereutes Kunes or Catamites. Satyr, decow
Theaetetus Yes. 
Stranger And secondly a kind of merchant in articles of knowledge for the soul.
Theaetetus Certainly. 
Stranger And thirdly did he not turn up as a retailer of these same articles of knowledge? 
Theaetetus Yes, and fourthly we found he was a seller of his own productions of knowledge.
Anothoo 3. set straight again, set right, correct,tinaE.Supp.1228; “ta allotria kakaPl.R. 346e

1Pet. 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls  [A holy spirit]
        in obeying the truth through the Spirit  [into the spirit or word]
        unto unfeigned love of the brethren,
        see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pet. 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,
        by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
G313 anagennaō an-ag-en-nah'-o From G303 and G1080 ; to beget or (by extension) bear (again):—beget, (bear) X again.

[7] non mireris quia dixi tibi oportet vos nasci denuo
denuo  I. Of the restoration of a thing which has been destroyed, = de integro, anew, afresh, ek kainēs: “aedificantur aedes totae denuo,Plaut. Most. 1, 2, 36; cf.: “urbes terrae motu subversas denuo condidit,Suet. Aug. 47: “oportet vos nasci denuo,Vulg. Joan. 3, 7
Plautus, Mostellaria Pl. Mos. 1.2 A shower comes on and streams down the walls; the rafters admit the rain; the weather rots the labours of the builder; then the utility of the house becomes diminished;
        and yet this is not the fault of the builder. But a great part of mankind have contracted this habit of delay; if anything can be repaired by means of money, they are always still putting it off, and don't  do it until the walls come tumbling down;
        then the whole house has to be built anew. These instances from buildings I've mentioned; and now I wish to inform you how you are to suppose that men are like houses.
That’s just the beginning of the multiple conversations we’re trying to overhear this morning that are difficult for us to follow. Nicodemus starts out saying “WE know.” It sounds like nothing more than an editorial self reference until you get to verse 7 when Jesus says, “You (singular) should not be surprised when I say, “Ya’ll must be born anothen!” So how many people are in the room? Or is ‘we’ and ya’ll more about John and his audience? And we’re stuck dealing with the translator who forgot to tell us that “you” was plural in verse 7. Or that the word translated “wind” is verse 8 is the same word translated spirit in verses 5 and 6 and the end of verse 8.

Then there is the conversation from our own time and context – all the language about “born again Christians.” Who is one and who isn’t one.

Does this passage talk about water baptism or not? I can’t read this passage anymore without remembering being present at the Billy Graham Crusade here in Nashville a few years ago when the sermon that evening was on this text.
There is all of the polemic I’ve heard over the years about who is born again and who isn’t, really. Being right about baptism, after all, is what makes this particular story in John’s Gospel so important.

Or at least that’s the conversation that used to go on inside my head. Born again means baptism by immersion for the forgiveness of sins – end of discussion.
That is a fact: you cannot image up anything out of following Billy Graham
Matthew 19:28 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly I tell you that you who have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on the throne of his glory, you also will sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

28 ho de Iēsous eipen autois Amēn legō humin hoti humeis hoi akolouthēsantes moi en palingenesia, hotan kathisē ho huios tou anthrōpou epi thronou doxēs autou, kathēsesthe kai humeis epi dōdeka thronous krinontes tas dōdeka phulas tou Israēl.

Palig-genesia rebirth of the world, of Noah and His Sons, of persons, beginning a new life, in Roman Law == restitutio natalium

2. regeneration by baptism , “dia loutrou paliggenesiasEp.Tit.3.5.. 

Tit.3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;

Renewing is:

Anakkainosis (g342) an-ak-ah'ee-no-sis; from 341; renovation: - renewing

Our spirit becomes A holy spirit or A good conscience when we are baptized to "wash away our sins."

Washing is

Loutron (g3067) loo-tron'; from 3068; a bath, i.e. (fig.) baptism: - washing.

Regeneration is:

Paliggenesis (g3824) pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah; from 3825 and 1078; (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), i.e. (fig.) spiritual renovation; spec. Messianic restoration: - regeneration.

Palingenesia 1 [genesis] a being born again, new birth; used by Cic. of his restoration after exile:-- hence, in NTest., 1. the resurrection. 2. regeneration by baptism.

Palig-genesia  A. rebirth, regeneration, of the world, palingenesias hŕgemones, of Noah and his sons, metempsuch˘sis [transmigration of souls]

Col. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, 
and hath translated [g3179 methistemi
us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

1Pet. 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in         the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, 
        wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pet. 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us
        (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
        but the request for a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

II. in Roman Law, = restitutio natalium,

rĕgĕnĕrātĭo , ōnis, f. regenero,
I. a being born again, regeneration (eccl. Lat.), Aug. Civ. Dei, 20, 5; Vulg. Matt. 19, 28; id. Tit. 3, 5: lavacrum regenerationis, of baptism, Aug. Civ. Dei, 22, 8, 5.

Christ is born from above: we are adopted by Christ and must be regenerated:

Eph. 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Adoptio ol. 9, 13, 9.—In eccl. Lat., in spiritual sense of adoption as children of God: “adoptionem filiorum Dei,Vulg. Rom. 8, 23; ib. Gal. 4, 5; ib. Ephes. 1,

nātīvĭtas , ātis, f. nativus,
I. birth, nativity (post-class.; cf. “ortus): municipem aut nativitas aut adoptio facit,Dig. 50, 1, 1: “janua nativitatis,Tert. Anim. 39: “vultum nativitatis,natural face, Vulg. Jacob. 1, 23. —
(b). Plur., Tert. Spect. 30.—
2. A generation: “usque ad quartam nativitatem,
But then I awakened one day to the possibility that I might be listening to the wrong conversation. “Born again” might be one of the meanings of this word anothen that John intended his audience to overhear as a reference to baptism – born of water and Spirit would make sense to a Christian audience.

It cannot mean BORN FROM ABOVE unless you are speaking of a god person.

Most learned people would understand either adoption, proselyte or commercial baptism into an apprenticeship as being born AGAIN and not a GOD INCARNATE.

But in the particular dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus, Nicodemus chose the wrong meaning. All of the explanation Jesus gives points to his being born from above. 
There is water birth from mother’s womb
and then there is Spirit birth from above.

Flesh gives birth to flesh, but Spirit gives birth to Spirit.

Born of amniotic fluid does not mean born of water. Nicodemus was ALREADY a grown man: a grown man must be born AGAIN.

As mysterious as being born in human flesh is, how much more mysterious is birth from above in the Spirit. It’s like the wind (remember, wind and spirit are the same word in Greek).

You can’t control the wind, you can only experience it. Here is the power of the proclamation: A religious leader has come to Jesus trying to control all the circumstances of the moment. He initiated the visit at a time when he could remain anonymous from his peers. He initiated the conversation, but Jesus took it a direction he never anticipated. He tried to keep the conversation inside his own experiences of physical birth and life as a religious leader. Again and again, Jesus redirects the conversation and announces life outside the human control and understanding of earthly things and earthly ways.

The misunderstanding only grows, by the way, as you read through the rest of the story in verses 11-21. The layers of conversation continue to expand beyond Jesus and Nicodemus. There are more plural pronouns. Translators don’t know where to put quotation marks around the words of Jesus. Does Jesus make these self-references about the son of man being lifted up, “that whoever believe in him may have eternal life.” Is it Jesus speaking or John writing, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” Seems early in the ministry of Jesus for Jesus to offer this cosmic reference to the meaning of his life, death, and resurrection. What about the words in verse 19 – “This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness more than the light.” Is that Jesus talking to Nicodemus, or John talking to his audience? Both?

Who would you like to be in this story this morning? Which character, in which conversation? I have to confess I’ve spent the better part of my life unable to escape being Nicodemus – always hearing Jesus say, “born again,” always trying to maintain control of the meaning of the words and the meaning of encounter. Always believing I could harness the wind if I got all of the right answers!

Author and Pastor Timothy Keller has recently written a book entitled “The Prodigal God” (Dutton Adult, 2008). Keller explores the parable we often identify as the parable of the prodigal son in Luke 15. The parable is told in the context of Pharisees rebuking Jesus because he eats with tax collectors and sinners. Keller asks his readers to consider the people who were so often drawn to Jesus and transformed by his teaching. Much like the lost son in the parable who returned home and was fully embraced by the loving father, it was the sinners and outcasts who were attracted to Jesus.

Those who rejected Jesus were the religious leaders like Nicodemus – Pharisees who needed to control who was in and who was out, like the elder brother in the parable. Keller then asks this question: Why is it that the people who were most attracted to Jesus are never attracted to our churches? His answer is that our churches are filled with elder brothers who can only attract other elder brothers who look and sound and control the world just like they do!

The Scribes and Pharisees were the control agents: they were book and law writers and preachers for money: yea, even eating up the living of women. Jesus called them hypocrites and we remember Isaiah and especially Ezekiel 33 where Jesus names speakers, singers and instrument players. Jesus blamed the DOCTORS OF THE LAW and said THEY take away the key to knowledge.

The wind blows where it wills, you hear the sound of it, but you don’t know where it came from or where it is going. So it is with the Spirit.

The spirit or wind is not blowing around as some mysterious power:
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof,
        but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:
        so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Col. 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father,
        which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
        and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col. 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood,
        even the forgiveness of sins:
The remission of sins is NEVER disconnected from baptism for us:

Col. 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col. 2:10 And ye are complete in him,
        which is the head of all principality and power:
Col. 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
         in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col. 2:12 Buried with him in baptism,
        wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God,
        who hath raised him from the dead.
Col. 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
        hath he quickened together with him,
        having forgiven you all trespasses;

How could we be BORN FROM ABOVE as a Holy Spirit Baptism without the remission of sins: Water washes away sin because that is what Paul was told.  WE receive A holy spirit after OUR sins are remitted.
So it is with people who are born from above. Could it be that American Christianity, like Nicodemus,
        desperately needs disorentation,

needs to lose the comfort and security

of all that gives us
our own set of right answers,
our own control,
our own loss of hospitality to the other
to all who don’t look just like us?

            That once more,
we need the Spirit to descend from above that we might be born anothen?!

Spirit means the MIND. Spirit means RATIONAL or of the LOGOS.  This is contrary to DISORIENTATION and losing control which is the PURPOSE DRIVING instrumental noise.

The WIND descended UPON Jesus Christ once and for all times: it was to affirm that Jesus was the SON of a FATHER God.  The NAME of the Holy Spirit is "Jesus Christ the Righteous." Would you have Jesus DESCEND and light upon you?

Ephesians 4 wind

The great news of this text is that v. 16 is spoken not just to Nicodemus then, but Nicodemus now. God so loves this Cosmos that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him may not perish but have eternal life.

By the end of the story in John’s Gospel, Nicodemus gets us. Perhaps by the end of our story we will get it as well! Each week we gather around bread and cup – to what purpose?

To announce that we have participated in death and resurrection, we have been born anothen. So much more is at stake than eating someone’s homemade communion bread and drinking a sip of Welch’s grape juice. We announce his death until he comes.
We announce the Wind is blowing and we are not in control.
WE become the living CHRIST animated by Spirit for the sake of the Cosmos.

You too can BECOME the living CHRIST. But the NAME of the Spirit OF Christ is "Jesus Christ.  The WORD is the LOGICAL DISCOURSE of God.  If you loose control you are back in paganism.

Galatians 1:11  But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel
        which was preached of me is not after man.
Galatians 1:12  For I neither received it of man,
        neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

The Spirit Lord calling Himself "Jesus of Nazareth" APPEARED to Paul and let him hear HIS VOICE. This was to qualify him to be guided into all truth. No. They are NOT apostles or prophets.

Colossians 1:25  Whereof I am made a minister,
        according to the dispensation of God
        which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God;
Colossians 1:26  Even the mystery
        which hath been hid from ages and from generations,
        but now is made manifest to his saints:

Peter dared anyone not to teach the Word which He remembered in a written text: anyone who private interpreted or further expounded would be MARKED as a false teacher.  He said that the PROPHECIES had been made perfect and the ONLY spiritual resource is the Prophets and Apostles led by Jesus Christ.


John 3:31

He that cometh from above is above all:
        he that is of the earth is earthly, [all men]
        and speaketh of the earth:
he that cometh from heaven is above all.

A musical instrument is a "machine for doing hard work" mostly in stirring up war or creating the shock and awe of mental derangement used by false teachers. ALL recorded evidence marks it as SORCERY or WITCHCRAFT.

John 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth;
        and no man receiveth his testimony.

Jesus as the Christ of God WAS God made visible and audible.
The thought within Jesus spoke of eternal truth which He knew first-hand
NO mortal could then or now HEAR that testimony.
So, don't be fooled by pseudo apostles.

What is it that  NO MAN can hear or receive directly.
1Pet. 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Rev. 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:
        worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.  
John 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

Jesus has received the testimony: Jesus is the ONLY MAN selected to TESTIFY. You cannot testify unless you have been WITH God in heaven. Don't be fooled NO MAN can pour living waters out of a polluted stream.

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent
        speaketh the words of God:  [No: THEY cannot hear anything]
        for God giveth not t
he Spirit by measure [meter?] unto him.

SPEAK is the opposite of poetry or music: Jesus SPOKE without spouting poems or singing limp-wristed meter.

John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son,
        and hath given all things into his hand.  [Nothing left ofer for pretenders]
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:  [words are spirit and life]
        and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life;
        but the wrath of God abideth on him.

If you do not teach THAT WHICH HAS BEEN TAUGHT you do not BELIEVE. Or even if you could hallucinate singing musically you would be confined to THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN with one mind and one mouth. No room for MEDIATORS to claim to be gods and standing in the holy places claiming to lead you into the presence of God.

Delivered at Otter Creek, May 3, 2009