Rubel Shelly - Faith Matters - Max LucadoMy friend, Max Lucado, compares the role of the Spirit in our lives to a guy who wants to learn to dance. The music starts, and the next thing the guy knows he's dancing without the book! This sermon seems to round up the thoughts of Max Lucado, Jeff Walling in Daring to Dance with God and Edward Fudge reminding us that we missed the last half of Acts 2:38. As so many sermons are these days, the goal of the sermon must not allow the facts to get in the way. Our review is in blue.
Geni, Adepts, Demons Rubel shelly will be teaching The Shaping of Things to Come to train new ministers at Rochester College. The book seems more occult than Christian.
You can read the book and see the PATTERNISM for the EMERGING PREACHERS.
Change Agents planned to use CODE WORDS to fool the fools who pay them. Rubel Shelly quotes Max Lucado about the Holy Spirit as song writer and dance master (a blasphemy). God MARKS them and they point directly to the end-time worship of Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyon. They USE the muses or locusts to sting and separate those with the MARK OF MUSICAL WORSHIP from those with the MARK OF THE WORD. Singers and musicians were prostitutes, parasites, sorcerers and they are HERE.
First, you must understand that a Direct Guidance is claimed after denying that the Bible is authority for modern faith and practice. This allows the use of Narrative Theology to allow each preacher to compose his own "scripture."
Rubel Shelly believes and teaches:
Here is what God wants
(But: That's true: they should but anly a few choose to have eternal life by being baptized into Christ.
The Israelites had to "look upon" the serpent) John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
(3) "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36).
(But: Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.)
(4) "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: (5) While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (6) Since we have now been justified by his blood, (7) how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!" (Rom. 5:8-9).
(But: Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.)
These are the essentials of Christian faith. It is this core message about Jesus that we share
Outside the essence of the gospel,
there are other features that reflect our history and consensus interpretations of the larger biblical message.
Dr. Shelly defines the narrative form as writers taking the literature and constructing a narrative for their own time, place, theological agenda and by sifting in Greek philosophy.
Rubel Shelly: "Those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the spirit OF sonship. And by him we cry, 'Abba, Father.' The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs -- heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory" (Rom. 8:14-17).
In chapter seven, sin is personified with a will: it attacked, deceived and slew Paul:
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Rom. 7:11
This does not mean that "sin" is a person with a will.
In the same way, in Christ, the mind is personified:
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Rom 8:14KJV
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Rom 8:15
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Rom 8:16
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and jointheirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Rom 8:17
If the Spirit of Christ means The Holy Ghost as a personal, living-in, third member of the Godhead we must allow Him the intelligence to have said: "The Holy Spirit person" rather than "the Spirit of God." Or, The Holy Spirit Person rather than "the Spirit of Bondage." Or, the "Spirit of Adoption."
How can a person be the spirit of adoption. The spirit of fear is not an indwelling demon.
The "spirit of fear" is not a person named "fear." Rather, spirit means that we have the mental disposition of fear or bondage. And if that spirit bears witness with our own mind that a grizzly bear is chasing us, the two witnesses make us run for our life.
We have been literally "filled" with the spirit of fear. Once we get into the car, the spirit of safety bears witness with our mind that we are safe and the hair on the back of our heads calms down.
In Corinth I might believe that I have the spirit of prophecy. However, if my mind doesn't bear witness with my emotions overcome with charismatic music, then I had better wait until the "drug high" of religious excitement wears off. And, sure enough, that great idea or poem we received in the "spirit" during our dream forces us to get out of bed and write it down. However, "when the mind kicks in" in the morning we feel a bit silly.
Remember all of that good music composed under the spirit of marijuana? Well, when the mind kicked in twenty years later it didn't sound so wise. According to Grace Slick discussing her "creativity"
"Using LSD you go from A to Z but forget that in between there is B to Y"
Jesus said that His Words are Spirit and Life. Therefore, any "spirit" which we get in our own mind should bear witness with the Spirit which Christ has delivered to us as a "ruler" or standard for truth - canon. This was important to Paul because the church was overflowing with theatrical performers from the Greek world wanting to "get on the dole" by selling their songs and sermons as "what God wants you to know." He identified them as "trained speakers" and "super apostles."
The way to cull them out was: "Do they have the spirit OF Christ? Do they abandon all and go out into the world and suffer as Christ suffered." If not, then they do not have the Spirit of Christ but the Spirit of lust and money.
Rubel Shelly: Did you ever wish you were stronger and more competent for your spiritual struggles? I can't speak for you, but I feel so weak at times. I certainly feel called to task that are greater than my paltry abilities. Then I am just plain overwhelmed by my unworthiness. I am a sinner. If Paul was 'chief of sinners,' I'm at least an assistant chief.
Turning away from legalistic body rituals and turning toward Christ will move you out of Romans Chapter seven and into chapter eight where Paul advanced beyond lack of assurance:
THERE is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
Who are IN Christ Jesus or "in connection with" Jesus?
........... Those: who walk not after the flesh (not a person),
........... but after the Spirit (not a person). Rom 8:1
Jesus told Paul "words" about how to be free:
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:2
And Jesus said:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63
Notice that the Holy Spirit as the "driver" does the lead walking (NEVER dancing), but Paul advises that "you" walk after the spirit and not the flesh. And if you try to dance face-to-face with the Spirit God of the universe I would wear a huge shield against sizzled.
In this passage walking after the Spirit and being in Christ Jesus mean the same thing.
- If we are literally inside of the literal Christ;
- and the literal Holy Spirit is inside of my literal body
- then my body of flesh stands between the literal Christ and His literal Spirit.
- See what you get into when you make idols or images out of spiritual principles?
For what the law could not do [law personified], in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Romans 8:3
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4
Now, the literalist has the literal Holy Spirit person walking along and we are walking after Him while our bodies walk after the spirit of flesh!! Then if we walk in the spirit and the Spirit is inside of us literally then we have a real puzzle. But that is the flesh speaking.
We don't "let our bodies do the walking" but we conform our "mental disposition" to the spirit or mental disposition of Christ. We then follow His commandments in order to walk in Him, beside Him, with Him and He in Us.
To refute those who object to Dr. Shelly's view that Paul is speaking about the carnal nature in competition with the Holy Spirit inside of the literal flesh we quote Dr. Shelly:
Rubel Shelly: A major theme in Paul's theology is the contrast and conflict between sarx ("flesh," KJV; "sinful nature," NIV) and pneuma ("Spirit").
Any RELIGIONISM RITUAL which you can see, smell, feel or hear is focused on the SARX. Jesus said that God only seeks those who can worship in the new PLACE of the human spirit. Paul made this so clear that it CANNOT be misunderstood by anyone having the Spirit of Christ:
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Ph.3:3
Why is it absolutely important that you NOT let anyone PERFORM or MEDIATE the Spirit or Word of God:
Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. Ph 3:2
Dogs were the catamites or homosexual "ministers" of the gods who believed that music-induced homosexuality bound the BODY and SPIRIT together.
If Paul's carnal nature was still alive then Paul was not converted. However, we can allow Paul's human body to still be a problem to him. While Sarx can stand for the sinful nature, the word literally means the literal, human body:
Sarc (g4561) sarx; prob. from the base of 4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extens.) the body (as opposed to the soul [or spirit], or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), or (by impl.) human nature (with its frailties [phys. or mor.] and passions), or (spec.) a human being (as such): - carnal (-ly, / -ly minded), flesh ([- ly]).
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; Romans 1:3
Now, Jesus was not of the seed of David according to "his sinful nature."
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Romans 2:28
Paul would never speak of the frailty of our carnal nature:
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity;
even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. Romans 6:19
Paul also uses flesh for the external rituals of the Law:
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Ro.7:5
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. Ro.7:18
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
........... So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;
........... but with the flesh the law of sin. Ro.7:25
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
........... who walk not after the flesh,
........... but (walk) after the Spirit. Romans 8:4
Do you grasp it? The spirit is not a member of the "god family" but our mind is to our flesh as our spirit is to our flesh. Therefore, the spirit in Romans 7 and 8 is our own spirit in conflict with our own flesh.
We believe that Paul speaks of his own, human body of flesh whose senses always needed to be stroked (yea, even by music fondling every nerve ending in the human body) and not his rotten nature. This means that the conflict is between his body and his spirit -- not the Holy Spirit because the contest would not be close.
Before looking at the next pretty powerful statement, you may want to look at some of Blackaby and King's claim of supernatural powers even more than Moses, Jesus and the Apostles when we get our "assignment" for our time just like Jesus got His for His time. In fact, along with the direct indwelling of the literal Holy Spirit "person" in the literal human body goes the retirement of Jesus to the "chair" or throne because this is NOT His dispensation!
Rubel Shelly: "In the Old Testament God spoke at many times and in a variety of ways.
Through Jesus, God Himself spoke to His people during His lifetime.
Only fits if you are about 2,000 years old and witnessed the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit as "another" Comforter is defined in John 14:18 by Jesus saying "I" will come to you. The same John in his epistle said that the Comforter's name is "Jesus Christ the Righteous." Jesus had DONE His work unless you are a prophet or apostle
Paul Tillich wrote:
"The Spirit is sometimes personified in the Bible, as in John 16:7-8, and this has led many to believe that it is a person. They do so because they do not take into account an idiom of the original Greek language. In Greek, inanimate objects which in English would be couched in the neuter gender, are given a masculine or feminine gender, if those objects are identified with any particular individual. ' For example, a chair is described as "it" in English, because it is neuter, being neither masculine nor feminine. But in Greek that chair can be identified with its owner. If it belongs to me, the chair is described as he; if it belongs to my wife, as she. Click Here.If you remember, the promise was to the Apostles and it was to "bring to their remembrance" what Jesus had spoken to them in person. Now, if Jesus has not spoken personally to me then He will not bring what He has not spoken to my remembrance! Is that simple or what?John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him,That means that no person can hear the Father but through the Son: the Father dwelled in the Son and the Son was God's only revelation through the prophets (the Spirit of Christ) or the Apostles delivered face to face with confirming miracles. That is to guard us against false prophets or teachers who claim that THEY are born from above or have a spirit person inside of them speaking audible words.
I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you,
they are spirit, and they are life.
John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him,
Lord, to whom shall we go?
thou hast the words of eternal life.
John 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ,
the Son of the living God.
and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you,This promise was made only to the Apostles whom Christ has selected to HEAR His voice and SEE Him face to face. This is absolutely the Biblical demand for any person who claims that they see visions or hear voices.
and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?
he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;
and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am IN the Father, and the Father IN me?
the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth IN ME, he doeth the works.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am IN the Father, and the Father IN me:
or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me,
the works that I do shall he do also; [expend more energy, suffer, die]
and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name,
that will I do, that the Father may be glorified IN the Son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
CONDITIONAL even for the Apostles who must believe and obey:
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.PROMISE TO THE APOSTLES
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, [within the "son"]
and he shall give you another Comforter,
[different in some respects: not heteros
3875.parakletos, par-ak´-lay-tos; an intercessor, consoler: — advocate, comforter.]
that he may abide with [Eis, in] you for ever;
Now: simple reading "another Comforter" will be "ME." Me the one you can see and hear.
If the invisible, inaudible SPIRIT PERSON is ONE MORE Comforter then he would be
Heteros meaning ONE MORE.
Another is not DIFFERENT: G243 allos al'-los A primary word; “else”, that is, different (in many applications):—more, one (another), (an-, some an-) other (-s, -wisAllos 3. allos kai allos, one or two; allo kai allo one thing after another, 2. sometimes like a comparison.
II. rarely like alloios, of other sort, different
Alloios , a, on, (allos) A. of another sort or kind, different
This is the same Comforter who is intercessor for believers.
1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.Jesus Christ is the HE who provides COMFORTER.
And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
3875.parakletos, par-ak´-lay-tos; an intercessor, consoler: — advocate, comforter.]
Jesus Christ the righteous:
John 14:17 Even the Spirit OF truth;
whom the world cannot receive,
because it seeth him not, [Us: we are too young]
neither knoweth him: [Us: we are too young]
but ye KNOW him;
for he dwelleth WITH you, [Not Us: we are too young]
and shall be IN you. [Not Us: we are too young]When God reveals new knowledge He speaks face to face or mouth to mouth. In order to qualify Paul in the same way the other apostles were qualified:
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come,
whom I will send unto you from the Father,
even the Spirit OF truth, which proceedeth from the Father,
he shall testify of me:
John 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness,
because ye have been with me from the beginning.
When the Lord as Spirit spoke to Paul He identified Himself as: "I am Jesus of Nazareth." In the earthly relationship God imaged Himself as Father, Son and Spirit. The process of identifying A SON OF GOD is that the Son hears and speaks only what He hears from the Father. As humans, we speak what our Mind speaks to us.
GOD AS DEITY IS
Therefore, the Father sends the Son as pure or holy Spirit. This is not a name: holy just means pure and Jesus manifests Himself now as Spirit but not a different Spirit.
Pleroma 6. fullness, full and perfect nature, Ep.Rom.11.12; to p. tou theou, tou Khristou, Ep.Eph.3.19, 4.13, cf. Ep.Col.1.19; tēs theotētos ib. 2.9; later “ta p. tōn theōn” Iamb.Myst.1.8; the aggregate of properties which constitute the complete nature of a thing, full specification, subst
When people begin to hear voices in their literal ear or through hunches or by having the "community" agree with and affirm "the" pastor will never fail to tell you that whay you hear in the Scriptures has been superceded by the new book peddler fellow.
Rubel Shelly: Then I begin reading my Bible again and find that my experience isn't all that unique.
Now watch closely: this is how you use the Bible as authority (not).
You read that God spoke directly to Moses and caused supernatural things to happen.
Therefore, if God is the same now as then he speaks to me also.
Isn't that wonderful. But God tells us that there was a large gap: the Israelites would have to await a "prophet like Moses" to hear anything but condemnation for ignoring the written Covenant superceded by the Law.
If Jesus was the "prophet like Moses" then that means that WE are not prophets like Moses.
Rubel Shelly: The people of God throughout history have been outnumbered and overmatched by the forces of the Evil One -- but still have triumphed. God acted around them, on their behalf, and through them to accomplish what no one could have predicted from a purely human point of view.
I don't want a new law or power to kill the Egyptans or kill a giant or have a baby or get a kinsman-redeemer or husband. I don't want to betray Jesus like Peter or any of those things. I acknowledge that God did it but I would betray Him if I refused to believe that He can deliver the truth once for all to supply everything I need for life and Godliness. Now, if I want to usurp Christ and become dominant pastor or hire a musical worship minister or build a mega-mega facility as a "bigger barn" then I might need some new revelation if only to thumb my nose in the old decadent and deliterious preachers not sucking in so many seekers.
Rubel Shelly: Although these precise words are nowhere in their life histories, you could use them of Moses or Ruth, Paul or John Mark:
Wouldn't it be nice to think that something comparable was going on with me in my weak, overwhelmed, and ill-equipped moments? With you in yours? With this church? With believers in places in the world where Christians are being persecuted for their faith? With your children in their temptations?
The promise- words of Jesus that he would send the Holy Spirit to live not only among but inside the very bodies of his disciples is being fulfilled in us. And my thesis is that a greater awareness of this biblical truth would serve all of us well by reassuring us in our moments of terror and comforting us in our moments of apparent failure.
If you are looking for a little man inside of your wretched body to give you permission that Jesus didn't give you, you should understand that the "another Comforter" would not be named "Holy Spirit" but Jesus Christ:
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18
That "Spirit" presence will not tell you anything the Human Jesus did not permit.
Henry Blackaby teaches that believers should be able to hear the voice of God speaking to them like Moses, Abraham and Noah did. This certainly implies a continuing miraculous, inspired revelation from God to man, which actually ceased at the end of the first Century when the New Testament was completed. Even in the time of Moses, God did not speak to anyone else like He did to Moses (see Numbers 12:6-8.) God punished Miriam with leprosy for the offense of claiming to hear God's voice like Moses did, Numbers 12:2, 10
- Rubel Shelly says:
- The Holy Guest will supply everything you need. In your weakness,
- you will feel his strength.
- Not only through the exhortation of the Word of God
- but in your daily routine,
- you will hear from
- and experience the Lord Jesus Christ.
- Blackaby, going by experience rather than by the Word of God, exhorts today's Christians, saying "If you have trouble hearing God speak (like this), you are in trouble at the very heart of your Christian experience." (p.36) If you accept this teaching and feel properly guilty and unspiritual about your inability to hear God's voice just like Moses did, then you are ready to go on to the solutions that Blackaby proposes. If you are not hearing those audible voices from God, all you have to do is obey your leaders without question!
"Does God really speak to His people in our day?
Will He reveal to you where He is working when He wants to use you?
........... Yes! God has not changed. He still speaks to His people.
........... ........... If you have trouble hearing God speak,
........... ........... you are in trouble at the very heart of your Christian experience."
Strange: almost universally people who hear literal voices which they believe to be God are normally the ones considered to be in trouble!
Sure, even unbelievers have been given spirit from God or they would not be alive. That is why fornication is unlawful even for those who do not believe: the same God who made the outside also made the inside.
Then the Lord said to him, "Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. Luke 11:39
You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? Luke 11:40
However, because the Holy Spirit is the Mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2) one who has God's spirit inside of their fleshly body does not have "a holy spirit" unless both the inside and outside are clean. This Holy Spirit lives in the heart or mind which has no physical definition. Therefore, Paul said:
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. Romans 7:18
So, Paul is not speaking of a literal "person" called the Holy Spirit living inside of the fleshly part of the body.
Rubel Shelly: I know what you do when you feel trapped, weak, and outmatched by the devil. You do the same thing I do. You think about everything behind you, in front of you, and around you that screams "Target!", "Scapegoat!", "Patsy!", "Victim!"
"Ah, but look at what's inside you!"
And then perhaps these
come ringing in your ears:
The "one" who is in the world and his agents can be identified specificially by claiming the supernatural power of a Moses or a Jesus:
BELOVED, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1
Pseudoprophetes (g5578) psyoo-dop- rof-ay'-tace; from 5571 and 4396; a spurious prophet, i.e. pretended foreteller or religious impostor: - false prophet.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mt.7:15
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. Mt.24:11
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mt.24:24
So, rest assured that the "many" and the popular and those who want you to be as much like the people in the world so that you can win them are automatically suspect.
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1 John 4:2
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3
Not too many denied that Jesus came in the flesh. What they denied was that He was the Messiah and therefore powerful enough to establish His kingdom in the world. To preach a "now but not yet kingdom" denies the explicit teachings of Christ the Spirit:
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1 John 4:4
The Living Bible reads:
Dear young friends, you belong to God and have already won your fight with those who are against Christ because there is someone in your hearts who is stronger than any evil teacher in this wicked world. 1 John 4:4LIV
That is why Jesus says "don't call any man your teacher."
Now, John gives us a test:
They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world (Kosmos), and the world heareth them. 1 John 4:5
You can test this each Sunday: do they speak about God and His Word without failure or do they do human philosophy or appeal to the founders of the Wineskin Religion of mind control or those claiming that you can be a Christ?
You will never find the ever-abiding-in-the-heart Christ by following the crowds to the mass assemblies attracting the crowds by Rock, Rap, theatrical performance or any thing which appeals to the human senses. Just forget it.
The "core" gospel is that it is seven facts about Jesus and all of the rest is just the opinions of apostles engaged in competition.
John is being heard only enough to get a proof text of an indwelling Spirit which continues to guide you into all truth. John clearly says that if you don't hear the inspired Word then the spirit in you is not the holy Spirit Christ but the spirit of the world:
- We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us;
- he that is not of God heareth not us.
- Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 1 John 4:6
Blackaby allows the Word of God to be our guide just like Dr. Shelly but this just means that the Bible informs you that you are another Moses, another Christ or another Apostle:
"The pattern I see in Scripture is that God always gives us direction on the front end.
He may not tell you all you want to know at the beginning but He will tell you what you need to know to make necessary adjustments and to take the first step of obedience.
Your task is to wait until the Master gives you instructions.
If you start 'doing' before you have a direction from God, more than likely you will be wrong.
"A popular teaching says God does not give you clear directions. It says He just sets your life in motion.Then you try to figure out the directions using your God-given mind.
This implies that a Christian always thinks correctly and according to God's will.
This does not take into account that the old nature is constantly battling with the spiritual nature (Rom 7) Our ways are not God's ways [Isaiah. 55:8]. Only God can give you the kind of specific directions to accomplish His purposes in His ways.
Here is how they use the Bible: the Bible says that Moses and Jesus received specific instructions from God. Now, rather than trusting those specific instructions, "Bible authority" means that you, too, can experience what Moses and Jesus experienced.
I know, picky, picky, picky. But this is why there is so much discord sown in the world. Is the "Spirit" a literal person who lives in the literal body "in which nothing good dwells?" Didn't Paul say "present your body as a living sacrifice?" This means: "Consider your fleshly body on the altar and totally consumed or burned up." Not literally: we have to "reckon" our body dead so that we can serve God in the spirit or mind.
Add to that, literally hearing God speak to you. Figurative? No. In explicit words in literal ears. Perhaps, we really mean that because Jesus put Spirit and Life into His Word (I dare you to say that He could not, would not and did not) then we remember these words because we have read them somewhere? The Corinthians believed that their self-composed songs and sermons were inspired. However, Paul said that the words came out of their own spirit and they were just speaking into the air:
What came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 1 Corinthians 14:36
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 14:37
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 1 Corinthians 14:38
Remember what John said:
- We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us;
- he that is not of God heareth not us.
- Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 1 John 4:6
Paul one of the "we" apostles does not allow the "you" to receive direct revelations. If they lacked anything Paul did not say, "Get your direct assignment like Moses." No. He said, "I will write you."
It is truly meeting this definition if we define a little "core gospel" and relegate the rest of the writings to the interpretation of confused apostles which resulted in divisive churches.
Paul then began to regulate those who thought that they were a prophet or a tongue speaker which would shame them into silence. If the Holy Spirit was speaking to just ONE person in Corinth Paul's job would not have been so tough. When we begin hearing voices in our ears we will almost assuredly mishandle that which has been revealed by the Spirit of Christ through the Apostles.
Blackaby continues: "After God spoke to Noah about building an ark, Noah knew the size, the type of materials, and how to put it together. When God spoke to Moses about building the tabernacle He was very specific about the details. When God became flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ, He gave specific directions to His disciples -- where to go, what to do, how to respond.
"What about when God called Abraham (Abram) and said, "Go to the land I will show you" (Gen 12:1)? That was not very specific. That required faith. But God did say, "I will show you."
God always will give you enough specific directions to do now what He wants you to do.
When you need more directions, He gives you more in His timing. In Abraham's case, God later told him about the son to be born to him, the number of his descendants, the territory they would inhabit, that they would go into bondage and be brought out.
The Holy Spirit gives clear directives today. God is personal. He wants to be intimately involved in your life. He will give you clear guidance for living." Experiencing God, p. 75
Rubel Shelly: Incredible as it sounds, the fact is that God indwells every saved man and woman, boy and girl of the human race
Because of what happened to the word in its English usage, we more often speak of the Holy Spirit today than of the Holy Ghost. But I will tell you that I like the original idea inherent in the term Holy Ghost for the simple reason that in seventeenth-century English, the word "ghost" had the essential meaning of our modern "guest."
The Spirit OF Christ is named "Jesus Christ the Righteous."
"This God is never called a person. The word person was never applied to God in the Middle ages. The reason for this is that the three members of the Godhead were called personae (faces or countenances):
"The Father is persona, the Son is persona, and the Spirit is persona.
Invisible Pure Spirit
GOD AS DEITY IS
"Persona here means a special characteristic of the divine ground, expressing itself in an independent hypostasis.
"Thus, we can say that it was the nineteenth century which made God into a person,
"with the result that the greatness of the classical idea of God was destroyed by this way of speaking...
"but to speak of God as a person would have been heretical for the Middle Ages; it would have been to them a Unitarian heresy, because it would have conflicted with the statement that God has three personae, three expressions of his being. (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 190)
Lares or Ghosts
Lar: plural LARES, in Roman religion, any of numerous tutelary deities. They were originally gods of the cultivated fields, worshipped by each household at the crossroads where its allotment joined those of others. Later the Lares were worshipped in the houses in association with the Penates, the gods of the storeroom (penus) and thus of the family's prosperity; the household Lar (Familiaris) was conceived as the centre of the family and of the family cult.
We have inset the double flute player and sistrum:
Originally each household had only one Lar. It was usually represented as a youthful figure, dressed in a short tunic, holding in one hand a drinking horn, in the other a cup. Under the empire, two of these images were commonly to be found, one on each side of the central figure of the genius, of Vesta, or of some other deity. The whole group came to be called indifferently Lares or Penates. A prayer was said to the Lar every morning, and special offerings were made at family festivals.
"Gods are called by many names and "at another time, again, he maintains that they are gods of the air, and are termed heros; at another, following the opinion of the ancients, he says that the Lares are ghosts, as it were a kind of tutelary demon, spirits of dead men." (Arnobius Against the Heathen, Ante-Nicene, VI, p. 475).
No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons. 1 Cor 10:20-21
Paul directly points us to the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. The Israelites worshiped the demons or "beasts" of Egypt and the nation was lost.
Maybe Dr. Rubel Shelly has it correct, but Gallup says that at least 80% of preacher illustrations are untrue: My Websters says that Ghost is "Akin to the Greek Gheest meaning to be excited, frightened or angry." It is true that a ghost or demon was considered to be the "spirit of a dead person" but they were not often welcomed as GUESTS. In fact, the musical worship team Jesus "ejected more or less violently" was trying to appease the ghost of the dead girl so she would not harm them.
The Britannica notes that: "In many societies funeral rituals are believed to prevent the ghost from haunting the living." A place that is haunted is thought to be associated by the haunting spirit with some strong emotion of the past--remorse, fear, or the terror of a violent death. Individuals who are haunted are believed to be responsible for, or associated with, the ghost's unhappy past experience."
This is why Jesus put the musical worship team out "more or less violently" in the house of the "dead gir." They were engaged in rites for the dead as music in the book of Revelation is FOR THE DEAD. The girl was not dead in that sense.
If we hear literal words in our literal ears we may still be trying to be on the crossstill carrying around Jesus whose "now but not yet kingdom" couldn't finish fermenting.
It is noted that the Marzeah celebrated by the Israelites and condemned by Amos for their musical rituals was "a feast with and for dead ancestors." And many of the Classical allusions to music in the world of the dead are identical to those in the book of Revelation which warns that only when you are dead with no earthly good to anyone is music allowable.
The word for "ghost" might be a guest but unwelcomed. One suspects that a lot of religion comes out of folklore where Spirit or Mind has its second incarnation as a real "person" who speaks ringing sounds into your literal ears. For instance:
A magician raising a ghost, illustration by W. Raphael from The Astrologer of the Nineteenth Century, 1825
The priests or preachers of the Ghost religions were the Astrologers or Soothsayers, etc.
"Poltergeist (from German Polter, "noise" or "racket"; Geist, "spirit"), in occultism, a disembodied spirit or supernatural force credited with certain malicious or disturbing phenomena, such as inexplicable noises, sudden wild movements, or breakage of household items. Poltergeists are also blamed for violent actions--throwing stones or setting fire to clothing and furniture. Such events are said to be sporadic, unpredictable, and often repetitive.
"According to popular belief, a poltergeist's activity appears to concentrate on a particular member of a family, often an adolescent, its object being harassment or, rarely, physical harm. When strangers are present, the unusual phenomena often cease. A large portion of those reported to be victimized suffer from hysteria. In many instances, the activities attributed to poltergeists have been explained as natural phenomena--e.g., the normal creaking of boards in an old house."
One of the most ancient ghost views of religion literally believed that the musicians, singers and dancers and even speakers could "lead you into the presence of the gods." The "prophets" -- called "the world's oldest profession" -- was specificially chosen for his abnormality and "prophesying" was singing his inspired message from the "familiar spirit" which might be an old wineskin with the witch of Endor.
Watch out for him in the pulpit
"kobold in German folklore, mischievous household spirit (geist) who usually helps with chores and gives other valuable services but who often hides household and farm tools or kicks over stooping persons.
Woe unto you, doctors of the law for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. Luke 11:52
- He is temperamental and becomes outraged when he is not properly fed.
- He sometimes sings to children. (Britannica Members)
The Indian Ghost dance, in fact, was an effort -- just like Jubilee -- to destroy the present culture and restore the ancient one. The Britannica notes that the Ghost Dance probably imitated the charismatic "revivals" of Christianity:
"Ghost Dance either of two distinct cults in a complex of late 19th-century religious movements that represented an attempt of Indians in the western United States to rehabilitate their traditional cultures.
Both cults arose from Northern Paiute prophet-dreamers in western Nevada
who announced the imminent return of the dead (hence "ghost"),
the ousting of the whites, and the restoration of Indian lands, food supplies, and way of life.
These ends, it was believed, would be hastened by the dances and songs revealed to the prophets
in their vision visits to the spirit world and also by strict observance of a moral code that resembled Christian teaching and forbade war against Indians or whites. Many dancers fell into trances and received new songs from the dead they met in visions or were healed by Ghost Dance rituals.
The very notion of the "Jubilee" is to oust those who have possession of your land even if you sold it to them.
Rubel Shelly: Thus three centuries ago people would have spoken of the third member of the Godhead as a holy guest among them - without our modern connotations of a "ghost" as a floating, transparent bed sheet. A Halloween weirdo. A disembodied human being.
We have found no church "Father" who identifies the Holy Spirit as a third person or member of the "God family." God as the Bible makes clear is ONE God and in history the Speaker, Word and Spirit or breath are never, never separated into "persons." The word is personae or three manifestations but never literal persons as in "a people."
On the contrary, Paul Tillich says that before the liberal 19th century anyone who identified the Holy Spirit as a separate "person" (member of the family) would have been guilty of heresy.
Karen Armstrong, in A History of God echos the view. The very common historical view of the trinity never saw the "persons" separated into a polytheistic god. Rather, the almost universal view was of One God as Speaker, speaking Words by blowing breath or spirit through his lips or "double-edged" swords. The Speaker was the "father" of the word which was "son." Breath was always spirit. One church Father noted that the One God always had his Word and Wisdom with Him
"This God is never called a person. The word person was never applied to God in the Middle ages.
"There is much gnostic Marcionism in them, that is, a dualistic blasphemy of the Creator God. They put the Savior God in such opposition to the Creator God that, although they never fall into any real heresy, they implicitly blaspheme the divine creation by identifying it with the sinful state of reality.
Against this tendency Irenaeus said that God is one; there is no duality in him. Law and gospel, creation and salvation, are derived from the same God." (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 42)
Rubel Shelly: Frankly, I love the idea of God as our Holy Guest down here on Planet Earth! He is with us. He is among us. He is in our hearts, minds, and bodies to act for heaven on our behalf. There are so many Scripture texts that affirm it.
As far as I know the spirit of man dwells in his body. However, the body is dead or carnal and the Spirit of God lives in our spirit.
Now, if Paul was speaking of a third "God" he would have just said "the Holy Person" lives in you. And if the Spirit is the third member of the "god family" then doesn't the expression "The third person of the first person" or "the third person of the second person" seem strange? Sure, and that is why Paul is discussing the spirit as "mental disposition" of God which is the same as the "mental disposition" of Christ. In fact, in 1 Corinthians 2, Paul identified the Mind of Christ as the Holy Ghost. And Jesus said that His Life and Spirit was in His Word (John 6:63)
The Holy Spirit is God and not a 1/3 piece of a pecan pie god. Holy or pure is an adjective and defines the quality of God as Spirit. The Spirit of God or the Spirit of Christ (No Holy Spirit as third person in Romans 8) is the mental disposition of God or of Christ. The combination of Romans 7 and 8 shows the conflict between our body and our spirit as it is guided by the Spirit of Christ. Romans Eight is made complicated by the "improvement" of inspiration by insinuating the Holy Spirit Person. We have looked at this in detail which you may read by Clicking Here.
Rubel Shelly: No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
How do we know that God's Spirit indwells out spirit? It is because our spirits cause our bodies to change its direction.
How do we know that God's Spirit lives in our spirit? Because the Bible Tells Me So! The subject is how WE KNOW. And We know because God has sent Paul to tell us so.
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (spoken out loud) him . John 1:18
The only way that we know that we live in him and he in us (a literal paradox) is because he has give us Spirit when He spoke to us. John says that we know because we know by God-given words spoken out loud or preached and not received by an internal radio in the brain. When you start hearing things it may be "static" so that you cannot hear the Word of God which is on the "tape recorder" of the Bible.
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63
To insist upon being a Second Incarnation is, like the popular theory of Blackaby and King, to get our assignment just like Jesus got His. However, the Son -- by one definition -- defends and enlarges his father's name. Lord Jesus Christ has done the "declaring" through personal teaching and the inspiration of the Apostle-Prophets. God does not speak to us in audible voices. Blackaby makes certain predestinated people identical to a Moses or a Christ or an apostle who were the unique handlers of the keys of the kingdom.
Rubel Shelly: What an awesome friendship with God has been entrusted to you!
The Keys to Knowledge had been stolen by the Jewish Clergy. Christ then took them away and put them into the hands of Peter who "opened the door" on the day of Pentecost. This was the church or kingdom and YOU don't need a special assignment from God to open them again. To us, the concept is "the word" or seed. We can plant and water but we cannot open the doors of an already wide-open kingdom.
If this truly happens to you then Jesus also gave you the test as an evangelist:
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. Acts 20:21
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Acts 20:22
Now, the "bosom" of the Father is "in the folds of the garments." The Word Who was with God because He was God "took off" the garments of full Deity and put on the "garment" of a human body. He "laid aside" that glory but when He returned as Right Hand or Right Arm He was restored to the bosom or folds of the garment. Jesus spoke in parables to fool the fools (Matthew 13)
A gift of the Holy Spirit is the Mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2). For this reason, John says that He has given us of his Spirit. Now, you cannot break the "person" Spirit into bits and pieces but you can distribute His Mind. And if we have the Mind of Christ living in us in a fruitful way then we have a Holy Spirit.
If this indwelling is a literal or physical thing we have a problem. It would be like saying, "I am inside of the house and the house is inside of me." That is not the picture of dwelling or Tabernacling among men. And that is where trying to worship a pure Spirit God with external rituals (the burden Jesus came to remove) and carnal illustrations gets us into trouble. Dwell is from the Greek:
Meno (g3306) men'-o; a prim. verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), * thine own.
Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. Mt.26:38
Because God is Love or the personification of love, when we love someone it is like God dweling in them. But we are not a Second Incarnation just like Jesus.
Rubel Shelly: Most people in my heritage understand the first half of Acts 2:38 to be pretty important, but some of us are a bit fuzzy on the second half. "Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"
In the Core Gospel Rubel Shelly lists: that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16). Baptism is not part of his core.
The Holy Spirit might have had Peter say:
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit into your body. Acts 2:38
But some of us in our heritage hear Peter say:
"And Peter replied, "Each one of you must turn from sin, return to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;
then you also shall receive this gift, the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38LIV
Walter Scott define a holy spirit as "man's spirit made holy by God." God who is pure or Holy Spirit gives us the gift of a holy spirit as we follow him.
And again, Peter replied and said:
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the request for A good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 3:21
Paul in 2 Cor. 3 told the Jews that they had blinders on their eyes and their ears were plugged from their musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. Only when they turned to the Lord would the blinders or hinderences be removed.
A clear conscience means that all of the obstacles have been removed so that we can hear Christ in the Word but it is not a literal indwelling of one third of the God family. A clear conscience is YOUR OWN SPIRIT made alive after the body is dead to it's self:
Suneidesis (g4893) soon-i'-day-sis; from a prol. form of 4894; co- perception, i.e. moral consciousness; - conscience.
Suneido (g4894) soon-i'-do; from 4862 and 1492; to see completely; used (like its prim.) only in two past tenses, respectively mean. to understand or become aware, and to be conscious or (clandestinely) informed of: - consider, know, be privy, be ware of.
Therefore, Walter Scott is correct: the gift is the gift of A holy spirit.
If we claim that the entire Bible has been put through the sieve of philosophy and the personal agendas of the writers then one repudiates the fact that Jesus identified His Words as Spirit and Life. Therefore, such a person does not have the gift of the "mind of Christ."
On the other hand, Paul understood supernatural gifts from the Holy Spirit as gifts from Christ:
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Ephesians 4:7
Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Ephesians 4:8
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Acts 4:11
So, you see, the gift of Christ in this case is a measure of power or grace and not Christ as a person. In a wider sense, the gift of the Holy Spirit is that knowledge and wisdom about God which we will never hear ringing in our ears from a little ghost living inside of us. (Isaiah 11:1f)
Rubel Shelly: We understand the apostle's instruction about repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus; we continue to teach and stress these biblical commandments to people seeking pardon and hope.
"Heritage" means tradition. That is, our views of the Holy Spirit are just old "hand me downs" from our decadent and deliterious past. However, many believe that the "gift of John Doe" is not John Doe as a personal gift to live inside of our bodies. The gift of Aunt Lurline was not Aunt Lurline but experience-filled antique furniture back three generations.
Now, to the contrary, if the gift is something the Spirit gives then we can rest on the Word and not on the tradition of Charismatics that God through a junior member indwells literally.
Jesus would give us as an indwelling exactly what was prophesied of Him -- and that was symbolized by a rock pigeon or messenger and not by a little man (Don't begin worshiping God as a literal tree):
AND there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: Isaiah 11:1
And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord; Isaiah 11:2
And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: Isaiah 11:3
But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath [Holy Spirit] of his lips shall he slay the wicked. Isaiah 11:4
That gift of the Holy Spirit drives us to discern His Words and "shout them out" just like Jesus without adding our own ringing voices.
The spirit as personal power was speaking in tongues as charismatics insist. And it is a biblical fact that:
No man ever spoke in tongues outside of the arm's reach of an apostle.
No woman ever spoke in tongues in the New Testament record except at Corinth and Paul said, "Stop it."
Bruner, in The Holy Spirit, identifies most modern church music as "low level glossalia" -- speaking in tongues.
Seeing the Holy Spirit as a third person separated from God repudiates the almost total record of the church Fathers and the leaders of the Restoration Movement. Rather, Dr. Rubel Shelly speaks in terms of the charismatic world where the gospel is just "core" and the epistles are "bad theology" and you can, apparently, distort them to your hearts content as you interpret them for this Post Modern world.
Rubel Shelly: The personal presence of God that indwells every Christian through the Holy Spirit is a promise of victory to feeble, struggling, overmatched people like us. In spite of anything behind you (i.e., in your personal past, in your genetic makeup, in your marital record, in your criminal record, etc.), around you (i.e., bad circumstances, poor options, enemies, slander), or in front of you (i.e., deadlines, ultimatums, consequences, death), you have something -- no Some-ONE -- inside you who is omnipotent, eternal, and omniscient.
This sounds like the old pre-grace sermon: we can climb up to the top of the ladder but we still have to reach up while God reaches down. "Me" added to God would be 100% God and no me. However, God created us to be able to live in the world without supernatural power. Our work like the Law of Moses is our punishment or discipline.
Blackaby notes: "When God spoke to Moses and others in the Old Testament, those events were encounters with God.
An encounter with Jesus was an encounter with God for the disciples.
In the same way an encounter with the Holy Spirit is an encounter with God for you."
Straight from Calvin's Institutes as muddled by the Synod of Dort comes the false claim:
"Now that the Holy Spirit is given, He is the one who guides you into all truth and teaches you all things. You understand spiritual truth because the Holy Spirit is working in you.
You cannot understand the Word of God unless the Spirit of God teaches you. When you come to the Word of God, the Author Himself is present to instruct you. You never discover truth; truth is revealed. When the Holy Spirit reveals truth to you, He is not leading you to an encounter with God. That is an encounter with God.
On the contrary, Peter said that by hearing the gospel we have all of the power we need to believe and POWER TO BECOME a child of God. Peter said that it is at baptism that we receive the gift of a clear grasp of the Word.
A sure sign that the Spirit of Christ dwell with us and walks among us is the really funny feeling that someone would cut and paste the Word; that someone would try tto lead me into worship; that someone would "lade" me down with spiritual anxiety which comes most powerfully from music; and the construction of programs of self help. I remember Jesus saying "worship in spirit" or in your own innermost being. Don't let one hand know what the other is giving in alms. Don't stand up and pray in the streets or synagogues thinking that God is having trouble hearing you. Go into your closet when you pray and for heaven's sake don't have a glory party to pat you on the back about what God is doing for me in answering prayer. The more I learn about Jesus the more I want to meet Him beside still waters.
Rubel Shelly: First, the presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit is proof of your established and certified family relationship with God. According to Paul: "The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children" (Rom. 8:16).
Except when applied to God, spirit is an it and not a whom. The KJV notes that:
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Romans 8:16KJV
We know or have the witness that a person is a son because a son keeps His father's word:
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Romans 8:14
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21
Proof of being led by Spirit of Christ is in obeying the commandments of Christ. Proof of being led by the Spirit is having a holy spirit or holy disposition.
When we so easily discount the explicit commands of Christ through the apostles then we do not have a holy spirit; we are not led by the Spirit because we don't keep the commandments.
We know that we have a holy spirit when we do what jesus told us to do. There is no subjective ringing voice in our literal ears that we are children of God. A child wants to take a walk with his father and says: "Tell me what you were doing when you were twelve years old." I just gag beyond medical help when people want to sing, dance and throw their hands around trying to move into the presence of the Father: children don't do rituals for their father!
Rubel Shelly: Both here and at Galatians 4:6, the apostle affirms that the Holy Guest whom God sends into the hearts, minds, and bodies of his people speaks of sonship (and daughterhood!) to himself: "Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, 'Abba, Father.'"
Paul didn't say that God sent the Holy Spirit into the bodies but the Spirit of sonship into the hearts:
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Gal 4:6KJV, NAS, RSV
The Spirit of the Son is not the third member of the Godhead in a literal sense. The spirit of the Holy Son is the mental disposition of God the Son who could call God the Father, "Father."
A slave does not call the master father. The child under the tyranical rule of the tutor does not call him father. The orphan does not say, "Father" or "Mother." However, when the "spirit of sonship" hits the orphan they just naturally ask: "Mom, got any cookies?" There is no identifiable "person" in our bodies but, consistent with the definition of the word for spirit, a mental disposition of being a true blood child.
Rubel Shelly: Here is the verse I have in mind about what I've called "alternative" prayer: "In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express" (Rom. 8:26). I do not understand this verse -- as some do -- of praying in tongues or via a private language of prayer.
So, you have Doctor Shelly personally identifying the spirit in Romans 8 as the spirit of the person and not a third person.
However, now in Galatians:
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Ga.4:6
But suddenly the Holy Spirit is doing the calling:
Rubel Shelly: Here Paul represents the Holy Spirit calling out to heaven on our behalf to remind God that "Larry is your son!" or "Linda is your daughter!" In other words, he is pleading our case.
He is letting the Sovereign of the Universe know that some struggling soul down below is not a stranger or would-be visitor at the door but one of his children. "He's in trouble again, God!" "You're going to have to bail her out again, Father!" It's as if the understood premise is: "I know you wouldn't do this for anybody but one of your own family!" In another place, Paul says the Holy Spirit is the "stamp" or "trademark" or "brand" on each of God's people - the mark that indicates ownership (Eph. 1:13; 4:30).
We have said it before: the term the Holy Spirit is not once mentioned in Romans 8. The conflict is between our flesh and our spirit. The Spirit testifies with our spirit when our spirit obeys God's Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not groan. God is not ignorant. Lord Jesus Christ is the One and Only Mediator between mankind and God. The Spirit is Christ in His present state to us.
In Romans 7 and 8 Paul does not use the term THE HOLY SPIRIT. The spirit in these chapters is OUR SPIRIT in conflict with OUR BODY. The Holy Spirit as a "person" does not do battle with OUR flesh.For ye have not received
..........the spirit OF bondage again to fear; but ye have received
..........the Spirit OF adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Rom 8:15
The Spirit ITSELF beareth witness with our spirit,
..........that we are the children of God: Rom 8:16
For we know that
MY little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1 John 2:3
..........the whole creation groaneth and
..........travaileth in pain together until now. Rom 8:22
And not only they, but ourselves also,
..........which have the firstfruits of the Spirit,
..........even we ourselves groan within ourselves,
..........waiting for the adoption,
..........to wit, the redemption of our body. Rom 8:23
2Cor. 5:2 For in this WE groan,
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon
with our house which is from heaven:
2Cor. 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan,
being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon,
that mortality might be swallowed up of life
Cor. 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God,
who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2Cor. 5:6 Therefore we are always confident,
knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body,
we are absent from the Lord:
2Cor. 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by NOT
All of the pagans believed that they had to use the musical worship team to "lead them into the presence of God." Therefore, Paul lifted their ignorance by saying that God is Creator and not an ignorant bystander off somewhere in "heaven."
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Acts 17:24
Neither is worshipped with mens hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; Acts 17:25
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: Acts 17:27
Again, His name is Jesus of Nazareth in whom dwells full Deity (Col. 2:9). All authority shown in Father, Son and Spirit is bound up in Jesus. And the Holy Spirit is not an "also" mediator.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Timothy 2:5
No, the Holy Spirit as a surrogate is not our Mediator. No, musical worship teams do not "bring us into the presence of God." Lord Jesus Christ is the name of the One Mediator and the name of the Spirit: He told Paul: "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute."
Rubel Shelly: Second, the presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit is the basis for boldness in your spiritual struggles.
Now, let's see how this is symbolic beyond astonishment!
"Initially a dancer beat his body, stamped and clapped; then a piece of wood, sometimes placed over a hollow in the ground, was used to amplify the sound of stamping, while sticks, spears or boomerangs were clashed, and strings of rattles were worn on the body to give sound to otherwise rhythmic movements. Familiar survivors of this state of development in the western world include the jingle bells worn on the legs of morris dancers and the rumba claves."
"In the next state, still a very early one, appeared many primitive instruments which show magic connotation, by which the sounds produced from natural substances by the hand or breath of man are used for communication with the spirit world in rites of every kind. These include seed-gourd rattles; scrapers, in which the sound is produced from serrated or corrugated surface; the bull-roarer, a piece of wood whirled on a cord to spin and thereby produce a roaring vibration of the free air; and whistles made from bone." (Britannica, Musical Instruments, p. 1083)
"Chirping" or "peeping" is exactly what the prophets of old did when they got bored with the word of God and sought a direct access often through the music of a false prophetess
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits (an old wineskin h178), and unto wizards (a knowing one) that peep (chirp), and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? Is.8:19
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Is. 8:20
Peep or chirp is:
Caphaph (h6850) tsaw-faf'; a prim. root; to coo or chirp (as a bird): - chatter, peep, whisper.
Cphiah (h6849) tsef-ee-aw'; fem. from the same as 6848; an outcast thing: - issue.
Cepha (h6848) tseh'-fah; from an unused root mean. to extrude; a viper as thrusting }out the tongue, i. e. hissing) - adder, cockatrice
Then deep from the earth you shall speak, from low in the dust your words shall come; your voice shall come from the ground like the voice of a ghost, and your speech shall whisper out of the dust. Is.29:4
Yiddeoniy (h3049) yid-deh-o-nee'; from 3045; prop. a knowing one; spec. a conjurer; (by impl.) a ghost: - wizard.
"In Isa 8:19 the 'obhoth and yidh'onim are spoken of those who 'chirp and mutter." These terms refer to the necromancers themselves who practiced ventriloquism in connection with their magical rites. In Isa 29:4 it is said 'Thy voice shall be as an 'obh, out of the ground.'... They are stamped in these passages, as in the Witch of Endor narrative, as deceivers practising a fraudulent art. By implication their power to evoke spirits with whom they were in familiar intercourse is denied." (Int Std Bible Ency., ency, p. 690)
Mutter is related to:
Higgayown (h1902) hig-gaw-yone'; intens. from 1897 (mutter); a murmuring sound, i. e. a musical notation (prob. similar to the modern affettuoso to indicate solemnity of movement); by impl. a machination: - device, Higgaion, meditation, solemn sound.
The Familiar Spirit
'Obh, hollow or bottle (Job 32:19) because the voice of the spirit might have been susposed to come from the one possessed, as from a bottle, or because of the hollow sound which characterized the utterance out of the ground. (Isa 29:4); or, as some have conjectured, skin. Greek "nekromantis." (Int Std Bible Ency., ency, p. 1094)
The meaning of "nebel" or harp and the resounding gongs of 1 Corinthians 13 is the same where nebel is close to nabal which means a vile fool.
"The expression 'divine by' clearly points to some magical object used in divination. Control of a spirit through some magical object is familiar enough... A spirit would hardly be used to call up another spirit. The word 'obh is supposed to mean 'one who has a familiar spirit,' from its root-significance of hollow and its primary meaning of wineskin . According to this derivation the
word is applied to a necromancer on the supposition that the spirit inhabits his body and speaks from within." (Int Std Bible Ency., ency, p. 690)
> The entire Bible makes it clear that God's Spirit or Mind or Mental Disposition has been entrusted into the written Word.
> The other alternative is for God to put His trust in individual humans.
> > Who do you trust: the Written Word which has survived the deliberate Post-Modern attacks from the beginning, or some person who claims to be a necromancer or soothsayer and who has the Holy Spirit speaking from inside of his carnal body?
A wineskin is empty but it has always been the FAMILIAR SPIRIT of those trying to be spokespersons for God.
The wineskin could be used in several ways: first, it could be stretched over a water pot or a hole in the ground to create the resonance of a drum as the "resounding gong" of Paul or the "familiar spirit" of the witches. Second, an old, rigid wineskin would be like a large waterpot. It would resonate and it would look like the "he goat"--the necromancer could speak in one end as a "familiar spirit" and the "voice of the god" would come out the other end and the foolish would think that it was the god. The voice would be whispered or mumbled and the resonance of the goat skin--like the organ pipe--would resonate and the sound would seem magical. Third, the rolled up leather would be more like an organ pipe or the hollow tree of the Dogons. You might even speak or blow into one end and the resonance would confuse the paying customer. Of those in Tierra del Fuego, the--
"Blow into the windpipe of a newly killed duck or at their death dances they pound the earth with pairs of thick, long poles or drum on a rigid rolled piece of hide.
Men bellow into the hollow of their hands placed against the earth, knock sticks or branches against the frame of the festival hut for rhythm or simply beat the floor of the hut with bare fists." Brittanica, Music, p. 1077
So those who get cramped just get fed up with the Word of God. Therefore, they can do nothing but chirp. Fittingly, Music is often connected to telling God that we don't want to hear any more of your words (Job 21: Amos 5,6,8; Isaiah 5 and Ezekiel 33).
When God laments or sings watch out:
MOREOVER take thou up a lamentation for the princes of Israel, Ezekiel 19:1
Qiynah (h7015) kee-naw'; from 6969; a dirge (as accompanied by beating the breasts or on instruments): - lamentation.
Quwn (h6969) koon; a prim. root; to strike a musical note, i. e. chant or wail (at a funeral): - lament, mourning woman.
With hooks they pulled him into a cage and brought him to the king of Babylon. They put him in prison, so his roar (calling out, singing h6963) was heard no longer on the mountains of Israel. Ezekiel 19:9
When Israel fell back into Egyptian "play" with vocal and instrumental music, God took away the Covenant of Grace and gave them a clergy to keep the 'people' away from the Tabernacle as the symbol of His presence. All non-clergy were "strangers" and they would die at the hands of the 'ministers' if they intruded into the holy precincts. That is why Jesus and the Apostles never "worshiped" in the temple ritual.
When Jesus died for us the burden He removed was "spiritual anxiety created by religious ritual." Thereafter, the boldness is not because one third of God literally lives inside of our literal bodies to let God in on the goings-ons on earth:
Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Hebrews 4:13
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. Hebrews 4:14
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 4:16
Yes, our spirits groan but the Holy Spirit (name Jesus) would look silly groaning to Himself.
Mediation does not happen in a "chain of command" beginning with the preacher. The man Jesus stands at the "border" between the visible, carnal world and the invisible spirit world. Jesus is the "door" from one place to another. Therefore, God looks at us through Jesus Christ and we look at God through Jesus. As soon as you take your eyes off Jesus and look at the preacher telling or singing that you should "keep your eyes on Jesus" you can no longer see God. If we can come boldly it is because there are no mediating priests or musical Levites to keep us away from the "holy places."
Rubel Shelly: In our original text for today, Paul reminded his readers: "You did not receive A spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit who makes you sons (Rom. 8:15)."
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Rom 8:15KJV
Again, we note that if the Spirit of Adoption is a person dwelling in our carnal body then the spirit of bondage must also be a person dwelling in our body.
The spirit of adoption is the mental disposition an orphan has when he has been adopted into a family. Spirit here is "mental disposition" just as it is in the term Spirit OF God or Spirit of Christ. If these are all "people" then someone has counted six god persons.
The statement: "did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again" personifies the "spirit" but this is not literal.
Paul did not use the term "the Holy Spirit" in Romans chapter eight. The spirit of bondage is not a "person" called bondage or slavery. This "spirit of" means the mental disposition of slavery as indeed both the Hebrew and Greek words for "spirit" means.
Pneuma (g4151) pnyoo'-mah; from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by anal. or fig. a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by impl.) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, doemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Comp. 5590.
Ruwach (h7307) roo'-akh, roo'-akh; from 7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i. e. a sensible (or even violent exhalation; fig. life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extens. a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, * cool, courage, mind, * quarter, * side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, * vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).
Therefore, rather than an evil person or a good person Paul speaks of the mental disposition:
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 8:15KJV
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father! Romans 8:15NAS
For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, "Abba! Father! Romans 8:15RSV
And so we should not be like cringing, fearful slaves, but we should behave like God's very own children, adopted into the bosom of his family, and calling to him, "Father, Father." Romans 8:15LIV
Paul did not say that we have received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as a person; he did not say that we have supernatural power like Moses. Rather, he said that we have received the spirit of adoption. Now, this is not a person named "adoption." Rather, only in the unique experience of baptism do we ask for and receive a clear conscience so that we can come into God's presence with boldness as a son does his father.
The spirit of adoption or spirit of sonship is the mental disposition of a son. Other than a title for God, this spirit is never a who.
Rubel Shelly: With the new status (i.e., child of God) comes a new boldness. There was enough bondage and fear in the old life! God doesn't mean for you to bring it into the new one. Even if you are still paying the consequences of some of the things you did back there, you are supposed to get your chin up, walk with a confident stride, move ahead with your life now. God has set you free from the guilt and power of sin. So be fearless today. Be audacious about your prospects. Live as a confident child -- not as a cringing slave -- in your Father's presence.
Third, claim the presence of God's indwelling Holy Spirit as the ground of your security in Christ. "Now if we are children, then we are heirs - heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ . . ." (Rom. 8:17a).
Well, we do have a bad habit of quoting parts of verses. The rest of the story is:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ;
if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Romans 8:17
"Knowing Christ and Him Crucified" does not mean "Teaching Just Christ and Him Crucified." Knowing Christ is to suffer with Christ.
Jesus identified Himself as Son because He spoke only what He heard from the Father. If we are sons of God it is because we speak only what Christ spoke or inspired and are willing to groan out our own suffering as He did His.
Many in the charismatic world believe that the "gift of the Spirit" is speaking in tongues or revealing the word in song or sermon. This is the second work of grace and without this work one is not a child of God. Therefore, the indwelling of the spirit is the ground of their security. However, we believe that the sacrifice of Christ is the ground of our security: not some "feeling" that we have a "person" living inside of our bodies because in our flesh "nothing good lives." That excludes the literal Holy Spirit:
For if ye live after the flesh [external things], ye shall die:
but if ye through the Spirit (our spirit) do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Romans 8:13
If we can keep track of a thought through one short verse, the conflict is between our flesh and our spirit. When our spirit is in control then our body obeys.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Romans 8:14
Remember that "spirit" of God does not mean another "person"; spirit means in both Hebrew and Greek the mental disposition of some thing or some one.
We will see that being led by the spirit is to walk in the steps which is to obey the commandments of Christ the Spirit.
Rubel Shelly: The confident assurance that you will outgrow your spiritual immaturity is tied up with the Spirit's presence and power in your life. The almost- swaggering confidence you have about overcoming an addiction that has kept you in bondage to sin for so long is rooted in his power at work in you, not your own. The enthusiasm you feel for going on with your life in spite of some of the awful things in your past is due entirely to his enabling grace, not your perceived rights.
The temple God dwells in today is not in Jerusalem or Mecca or Salt Lake City. According to the Word of God, it is your body.
Reach up and touch your head right now. That is the data bank and communications center of God's living temple. Wiggle your fingers now. Those are service appliances or utility implements for divine service. Think that's a stretch? In the context of 1 Corinthians 6:19, Paul is arguing that, since one's body belongs to God, joining it with someone to commit fornication is equivalent to temple defilement. The same thing would be true of your eyes glued to pornography, your hands taking something that doesn't belong to you, your feet and legs transporting you to a place where things that dishonor God are happening, etc. You get the picture, don't you? Your body as a divine temple is meant to speak both security and holiness to you.
As the Spirit is either God as pure Spirit or it is the mental disposition of God, the Spirit is often identified as a that or which:
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1 Cor 6:19KJV, RSV
Furthermore, it was part of ancient paganism to believe that the literal gods came to live inside of your physical, carnal, dead body. This "spirit" was called into the temples most often with wine, women and song:
"Women's singing was a vital part of all pagan worship. In very early times women became priestly singers of the gods in the temple.
--Women and girls from the different ranks of society were proud to enter the service of the gods as singers and musicians. The understanding of this service was universal: these singers constituted the 'harem of the gods'."
"The Egyptian Opis (Apis) and others which Israel worshipped at Mount Sinal were worshipped throughout the area. In preference to all other hymns these choirs generally sang the so-called epiphany hymns, which were intended to invite the gods to appear. Plutarch wrote:
Why do the women of Elis call upon God in song to approach them with the bull's foot? Their song is the following:
- Come, Dionysus, Hero,
- into the holy temple of Elis,
- together with the Graces
- come violently into the temple with the bull's foot!
- Then they sang twice at the end: "Sacred Bull!" (Quasten, p. 76)
"Choirs of young girls often officiated and they wore garments of the dancers consecrated to the gods."
The Willow Creek thesis is that the singers are the visible pictures of what one should be. That is, they are and have ever been the spirit-indwelled idols.
Did you know that Solomon's "concubines" and "musicans" for his own pleasure come from the same Hebrew Word? Did you know that looking to lust is also a sin and that Paul knew that you cannot put your wives and daughters on display without having them assualted? Did you know that he issued an absolute law against it? But, you say, Paul didn't mean it or didn't know what he was talking about. Well, then you ought to quit taking the money from widows and welfare people and taking the truth away from the mission areas!
God breathed spirit or life into all people: good, bad and ugly. That is, God created both the inside and the outside. This means that fornication which adulterates the external adulterates the tabernacle God created. This is true whether one is a Christian or not. Walter Scott asked about the Holy Spirit said that, first, it speaks of God Himself -- all that He is. Secondly, a holy spirit is the human spirit made holy because it obeys God. A fornicator does not have a holy spirit.
Christ directs us with His Spirit (mental disposition) which He bound up in words as Spirit and Life (John 6:63)
Rubel Shelly: Fourth, the indwelling Holy Spirit is also proof of a unity and partnership with Christ
........... that is so intimate
........... that it will allow you to share in every experience he has had.
Narrative Theology holds that man is to write their own narrative and "take liberties" with the Word as John took liberties. If one is "another Jesus" then they claim to have an insight into and be able to "share in every experience he has had."
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: John 20:30
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. John 20:31
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. Jn.21:25
Oh, how about the creation of the universe? Laying aside your glory of Godhead to assume a human body. Dying on the cross and resurrecting yourself. Ascending into heaven without help. But of course, Blackaby teaches that we have our assignment just as Moses and Jesus had their assignment. Therefore, we are partnered or co-equal to Christ. Paul said that the proof is in the "fruit" and not in some intimate co-incarnation with Jesus.
Rubel Shelly: "Now if we are children, then we are heirs -- heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory" (Rom. 8:17b).
You will definitely share in his glory at his return (cf. 1 John 3:2). Since that is so, it should not be surprising that you may also be required to share in some of his sufferings in the meanwhile. You may be opposed because you care about or choose to do the right thing when others are willing to drift with the flow. You may experience the heartbreak of being rejected by friends or abandoned by family. Or your suffering may come in the form of cancer, crippling arthritis, automobile accident, or death.
Because you are partnered (co-equal according to Blackaby) with Christ, though, even suffering means something different than it otherwise could have. Because you are not only indwelt but empowered by the Holy Spirit, you will be enabled both to endure and to prevail.
Too bad that Peter didn't understand that. According to his knowledge (just opinions according to the CORE gospel)
His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 2Pe.1:3
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. 2Pe. 1:4
For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 2Pe. 1:5
and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 2Pe. 1:6
and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 2Pe. 1:7
For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2Pe. 1:8
Rubel Shelly: There is a close association between the Word of God and the Spirit of God. But they are not the same. Their relationship is document to author, weapon to warrior, aspiration to competence. And while their relationship is important, it is not mutually exhaustive.
These conclusions are correct but only if the Spirit is a third member of the "god family" of kith and kin where, in Dr. Shelly's joke, the Father person and the Spirit person "aced out" the Son person so that He would have to suffer and die for us.
If in keeping with the definition of spirit in both Hebrew and Greek, the spirit is really the Mind of Christ as Paul insisted in 1 Corinthians 2, then there can be an equality between "word" and "spirit." Jesus plainly said as much in John 6:63.
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63
If the Executioner says: "Pull the switch" then these three little words have life shattering power in them. Word often equal power. God put His power in a human being to be treated like a criminal. How is it any less difficult for God to put His Spirit into real WORDS?
The doctors of the law keep trying to ridicule others by claiming that they believe that the Bible is the Holy Spirit (person). No one believes that. What students understand is that Spirit and Word are often equated. Christ put His "spirit" or Mind in words which you as a non-inspired person will never get by a Charismatic voice speaking to them.
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward: Ephesians 3:2
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words; Ephesians 3:3
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ Ephesians 3:4
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; Ephesians 3:5
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 2Co.3:3
Rubel Shelly: Having a Bible isn't the same has being filled with the Spirit.
If Spirit means the literal Spirit God then having total Deity inside of our literal body would burn us to a crisp.
However, having the life of George washington in a book is not the same as having the spirit of George Washington. However, I can read the words and imbibe the spirit of George if spirit means "mental disposition."
In Ephesians being "filled with the Spirit" is identical to being "filled with the Word of Christ" in Colossians. And being filled with the Spirit is not the same thing as "having one third of God literally living in your literal body literally speaking to you in audible words." No.
We believe that the Bible's message is that "walking by the spirit" is obeying the commands of Christ which He taught and guided the apostles into all truth to reveal to us. That includes the apostle Paul. For purposes of communicating between the invisible, Spirit world and our world and for our use in the physical world, Jesus still said:
This spirit doesn't live in the flesh part of the body but the innermost being or the human spirit. The Spirit doesn't deal in physical things but can only deal with words or ideas or thoughts. Paul also drew a parallel between the Spirit and the Word of Christ in Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3.
Rubel Shelly: I like the way my friend Max Lucado illustrated this difference in his book A Gentle Thunder.
Max compares the role of the Spirit in our lives to a guy who wants to learn to dance. He's a rational, intelligent sort of guy, so he goes to the bookstore and buys a how-to book. He takes it home and begins studying. He does everything it says with meticulous care. When the instructions say sway, he sways. When the instructions say lean, he leans. When the instructions say spin, he spins. He even cuts out paper footprints and arranges them on the family room floor so he will know exactly where to step.
Finally, he thinks he's got it down pat. He calls his wife in and says, "Honey, watch!" With book in hand and reading aloud so she'll know he's done his homework, he follows the instructions step by step. It says, "Take one step with your right foot." So he takes one step with his right foot. Then it says, "Turn slowly to the left." He turns slowly to the left. He keeps it up, reading and then moving, reading and dancing, through the whole thing.
Then he collapses exhausted on the sofa and says to his wife, "What do you think? I executed it perfectly!" To which she replies, "You executed it all right. You killed it!"
The bumfuzzled husband says, "But I followed the rules, I laid out the pattern, I did everything the book said . .
With that, she puts on a CD. "Try it again. Quit worrying about the steps and just follow the music." She holds out her hand, and he gets up and takes it. The music starts, and the next thing the guy knows
Max closes the story with this: "We Christians are prone to follow the book while ignoring the music. We master the doctrine, outline the chapters, memorize the dispensations, debate the rules, and stiffly step down the dance floor of life with no music in our hearts.
What they wanted Jesus to do but He refused to dance while the clergy fluted (polluted, prostituted).
So, how can you draw a dancing or musical paradigm?
I don't know why there is such an attraction to "dancing with God" or "falling into the arms of God" like a lover. I still believe that real men don't dance. David got so self-hypnotized with his own playing that he stripped off hs clothes and danced with the slave girls (probably camp follwers). David played his music and danced. This musical prophesying is identified as the "play" of Israel at Mount Sinai when they danced without The Book of the Covenant. They forced Samson to perform this same "play" as they poked out his eyes and made him into a "grinder" which among women meant a prostitute.
"While true power lies not in the letter of the text but in the Spirit that inspired it, we should never underestimate the value of the letter. The text of truth has the same relation to truth as the honeycomb has to honey. One serves as a receptacle for the other. But there the analogy ends. The honey can be removed from the comb, but the Spirit of truth cannot and does not operate apart from the letter of the Holy Scriptures.
For this reason a growing acquaintance with the Holy Spirit
will always mean an increasing love for the Bible. Gems (Tozer, a collection of various material from A. W. Tozer published in this form by Send the Light Trust, Bromley, Kent, England, 1969).And Tozer explains how the Post Modern mind does not have, can never have, the Spirit of Christ dwelling in them. In Hebrews 6 Paul defines turning away from the enlightenment from the Word as the unforgivable sin and so it is.
The book of Judges warns about a loss of the Holy Spirit and therefore a loss for the word:
And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances,
then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin. Judges 21:21
The Psalmist, like Paul, connected instrument to warfare:
Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. Psalm 149:3
For the Lord taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. Psalm 149: 4
Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds. Psalm 149: 5
Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand Psalm 149: 6 ;
To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; Psalm 149: 7
David sang and danced to the Gentiles after shedding the blood OF the Gentiles. He put his foot upon their neck and praised God for all of the blood.
However, Jesus came to shed His blood FOR the Gentiles. When He sings to the Gentiles it is because we are teaching His Words.
Job warned of people who rejected the book:
They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance. Job 21:11
They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ. Job 21: 12
They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave. Job 21: 13
Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. Job 21: 14
What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him? Job 21: 15
Jesus was not a dancing guy:
Did you know that they tried to get Jesus to dance to music? No? Didn't think so. They hoped that John wore "soft" clothing of the Catamite:
And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. Matthew 11:14
Elijah didn't dance. The prophets of Baal and Asherah were the dancing "girls." The evidence is clear that they used music to get themselves into a "spirit of" the effeminate as they tried to call God down into their presence. God told Elijah that He was not in the earthquakes or whirlwinds but in a "still, quiet voice." And Jesus repudiated those dancing types:
He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. Matthew 11: 15
But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows [clansmen], Matthew 11: 16
And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. Matthew 11: 17
The pipe was the flute from which the word pollute and prostitute is derived. The dance was the Dionysus choral dance into which only women or effeminate men fell. The ordinary Peter or Paul just couldn't do it. Not even Jesus and not even when the music was playing.
Now, just who is this music and dance master called the Holy Spirit? And why do I get that cold chill up the back that this is blasphemy?
Jesus really introduced the Spirit by saying:
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide [dwell with not literally inside of] with you for ever; John 14:16
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world [The kosmos of the Judas clan] cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14: 17
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14: 18
When this Spirit Lord introduced Himself to Paul He said, "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom thou persecutest." He also told Paul as He told the other apostles that He would guide him into all truth and did not say He would be their dance partner or music master:
Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. John 14: 19
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. John 14: 20
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14: 21
Oh! I get it! Commandments means "songs and dances" -- NOT.
Contrary to Max and Rubel, Jesus said that if you FOLLOW THE STEPS IN THE BOOK then you will be putting your steps into my tracks. However, the idea is not that of dancing but following Jesus LOCK STEP with Him.
If, as warriors, we are WALKING IN STEP WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE DI and we follow Lucado and Shelly and turn on Rock music and begin to dance I will betcha that we get a Bad Conduct Discharge. And I betcha that God has already dishonorably discharged anyone who suggests that they can dance with the Spirit.
Max Lucado nor anyone could sell books and tell it like it is. Jesus said that if we put down the rule book and just follow the music we will wind up naked. Jesus the Spirit is not the song and dance master in my religion. NO!
Entole (G1785) en-tol-ay'injunction, i.e. an authoritative prescription: - commandment, precept. (charge)
Often translated Traditions.
Sure, it is more fun to make fun of the rules laid down by Jesus as God Incarnate. Just throw away the "patterns" and let the music play. Then you will get in step with the spirit and you can dance the night away.
Rubel Shelly: If you will let him be your Holy Guest (poltegeists) and move to the music he makes, you will be -- to borrow Paul's language from Galatians 5:25 -- "in step with the Spirit."
Music is not an operative, worship word in the entire Bible!
Now, we have noted that Gheest does not mean "guest" unless it is in the haunting sense. Rather, the word means fear and sees the Spirit or Mind of Christ in the same way the spiritists see their poltegeists.
I tried to dance once and was told that I wasn't following the book. You see, you follow the rules for a long time and only then do the steps come "naturally." Music just causes you to move your body but Arthur Murray would not recognize the dance unless you followed the rules. Worship? Sure. But Jesus says that everything you do in worship is just vanity if you "teach for doctrine the commandments of men."
But, with my experience I don't really hear Paul speaking about dancing but of military training. The NIV uses the right words but the dancing interpreter got the wrong message:
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Galatians 5:25KJV
If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Galatians 5:25NAS
Keeping step is not "free dancing with that Spirit guy" but following the rules: We "hup" when God says "hup." "Free dancers" just love stepping on the toes of those still dancing by the rule book.
Stoicheo (g4748) stoy-kheh'-o; (to range in regular line); to march in military rank (keep step), i.e. (fig.) to conform to virtue and piety: - walk (orderly)
Paul didn't call Jezebel's effeminate priesthood to the witness stand to explain the word but:
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. Ro 4:12
Abraham didn't dance with the masculine God either.
And God says that "keeping in step" means keeping the commanments for those of us not hung up on the rejection of all authority:
And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Genesis 26:4
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:5
Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Ph.3:16
Rubel Shelly: A member of the family of God. Bolder in your struggles with temptation and the Evil One. Secure in your status as a co-heir with Christ. And living in spiritual unity with him -- awaiting his glory, yet willing to suffer in the meanwhile.
We have been adopted unto Christ. Therefore, the family name is not a generic "god" but his name is Jesus Christ - Jehovah-Saves.
A muslim proverbs says: "If the father plays the tambourine, the children will dance." Ain't it the truth.
Unfortunately people may look for religious answers from hearing some ringing voice in the ears. While this might be comforting, when that anxiety comes over us because we cannot pay the credit card, perhaps Jesus would say:
"If you just spend by the rules and follow the pattern you will not get into trouble."
While there are many good statements in this sermon, Dr. Rubel Shelly seems intent on moving Woodmont Hills closer to the musical dancing world of "lading burdens" on the people used like pack anamals.
Music is not a worship word in the entire Bible. Rather, MUSIC is for the military to panic the enemy, the prostitute to suck in the seekers, to tell God that we will not listen to your "steps" or the simple, idle play of children or immature Christians.
Rejection of Blackaby on the Holy Spirit
Read our comments on Blackaby
Read Another Review
Dr. Rubel Shelly Claims the Supernatural but Calvinistic Choice to be an Evangelist.
Because the Purpose Driven church and the new "paradigms" or patterns for musical worship are directly derived from the Old Testament you may want to read:
Dr. Shelly's Exodus Pattern for community and worship.
The Mystic Dance of Jesus - Zoe Connection
Musical Worship Index
Holy Spirit Index
Counter added 1.12.05 11:23a 4826 10.17.05 2:48p 175 4.29.10 10000