Home... Apocalyptic... Apocryphal... Awakening... Baptism.....Caneridge... Church.... Colonial... Godhead.... MaxLucado... Lynn.Aderson... Musical Worship... Preaching... Restoration... RubelShelly... Search Our Site... Tongues... Topical...

Dennis Downing Brazil Just Jesus

Just Jesus: KNOWING Just Christ and Him Crucified DOES NOT MEAN just TEACHING Christ and Him crucified. Brazilian Zeal, BZeal, Recife, Brazil, Forthright Magazine, Berean Spirit, Al Maxey, grace centered magazines, stone-campbell, Oak Hills church of Christ, Max Lucado, Richland Hills church of Christ all figure in Dennis Downing's CONNECTS.

Jeff Childers and Frederick Aquino At the river's Edge: ACU's fire brigade to put out the 2004 heretical lectureship. 

The mark of Max seems to be "Just Jesus" and ridiculing a two thousand year old view of baptism as the FOUNDATION of the Gospel for us. It is clear that WE cannot be JUST-JESUS and die for the sins of the world. However, the duty of he that BELIEVETH means that he will OBEY and be baptized. However, he that BELIEVETH NOT does not mean that he has FAITH which has not submitted to baptism. Rather, he that BELIEVETH NOT calls God a liar and is defined as a dealer in TREACHERY. Those who minimize or refuse to obey the FORM of the PROTOS or prototype of Jesus Christ WILL BE DAMNED. And those who USE such people are themselves FAITHLESS.

"RECIFE from the Christian Chronicles featuring an Elder From Richland Hills (Now, a christian church?) More than 1,000 church members met in downtown Recife July 3 for the eighth annual Family of God fellowship, missionary Dennis Downing said. Keynoter David Ingram, missionary in Fortaleza, Ceará, spoke on the theme "Enamored With the Church" from Ephesians. The Oak Hills church, San Antonio, sponsors Downing.

Apostates take the word of JESUS CHRIST off their identity and substitute the FAMILY OF GOD. Jesus is Jehovah- saves. GOD is derived from GAD the god of fortune and a hostile tribe. The church is a FAMILY only in the heavenly sense. To us, Jesus build an ekklesia or synagogue or school of the Bible. Those who repudiate Christ also turn to a FAMILY OF GOD with the senior pastor as the Husband and Father. One can predict that the speech is an attack upon the church as the BODY of Christ with the JESUS THE HEAD and preaching Just-Jesus which is Anti-Christ. See The Purpose Driven Cult's Goals. One is to:

"Transition the ministry of the church to the people and the maintenance of the church to the staff (paid or volunteer). [That means from the elders to the STAFF which will expand and leave the elders as just the shepherds of the professional staff which will grow to ride on the backs of widows]

Another goal is to change the name, change the bylaws respecting ownership so that their stealing of church property cannot be pulled on them. This takes ownership away from the members and puts it in a self-perputiating STAFF. This was the CURSE God pronounced on Israel when they said: "Give us a king like the NATIONS" meaning "so we can worship like the nations."

One doubts that one can be sponsored by Oak Hills without being a CAMPUS of Oak Hills and governed from the STAFF at Oak Hills. They are removing CHRIST from their consiousness and preaching JUST JESUS who was sent by God in conversation with Lucifer (Zoe) in a VIAL OF LIGHT. Oak Hills has hired a Shepherding or Discipling STAFF who will facilitate Lynn Andersons PK or Crossroads SHEPHERDING system which involves revealing the deepest personal financial and sexual secrets. In all previous systems, this is filed away and is used to CONTROL people.

Max Lucado repudiates faith, repentance, confession or baptism as having anything to do with salvation. His is a Calvinistis splash where you respond by calling God "father" and you are ADDED to the Family of God. Dennis Downing submits and claims that we should not squabble about BAPTISM.

Rubel Shelly: But it is so tempting to tack onto the gospel my special take on the Lord's Supper or the millennium, how baptism must be understood or the second coming conceived,

how the church must worship

It is skating on thin ice to DENOUNCE Christ who attached baptism to salvation and the remission of sins. If the mode or purpose is not clear then, consistent with Calvinism, Dennis Downing makes baptism a LEGALISTIC ACT which "signifies nothing."

However, God in Christ made baptism the time and place where we call on Him for a clear conscience ONLY at water baptism. The clergy "rejected the counsel of God for their lives" by not being baptized.

And Nothing But the Truth Dennis Downing

We applaud missionaries in Brazil. Undoubtedly Dennis Downing is a fine person. However, it is easy to make a mistake which can be fatal. One mistake is in reading the Word:

Dennis Downing quotes as the total thing:

"For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2 RSV)

Paul KNEW Jesus in that he ACTED LIKE Jesus. But, he TAUGHT what he had been taught by a personal visit from the Spirit who called himself "Jesus of Nazareth." Furthermore, Jesus the Spirit would "guide him into all truth" as He had the original apostles. Paul knew that the BEGINNING or CORNER or MOST IMPORTANT starting place was with Baptism as prophesied by Malachi. However, baptism as the ARCHE or human beginning place until they understood the death, burial and resurrection as the PROTOS or most important thing. The GOSPEL means that if we believe in Jesus Christ as FULL DEITY then we can obey THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE by the pure grace of baptism.

This statement was to MARK those who almost universally refused to "teach that which has been taught" and turn to HUMAN WISDOM. Jesus Christ didn't EXTORT from the widows and hard working people. This repudiated JUST JESUS CHRIST and takes away the key to knowledge.

Paul's description of his travails as a MISSIONARY or EVANGELSIT defines what it means to KNOW CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED. This was a MARK to identify those who knew JUST-JESUS but not Christ-Crucified. See Rubel Shelly's Located Missionary where we prove that Timothy must WORK so he would not be a BURDEN and so that as "minister" he could defend CHARITY or AGAPAE which was to feed the destitute in the morning on their way to labor.

I suppose writing for Heartlight tempts one to pull their punches? Especially with sponsoring churches conspiring to turn churches of Christ into Christian Churches.

Here is the problem: preachers who feel strongly for people do not want to PUT OBSTACLES in front of them. For instance, accept a Baptist baptism because they KNOW Jesus and Him crucified.

Paul said KNOW only Christ and Him Crucified
False teaching understand
TEACH only Christ and Him crucified.
Paul knew Jesus personally
BECAUSE Jesus of Nazareth as the Lord appeared to Paul.
Paul understanding the
sacrificial nature of Christ, PREACHED what Christ revealed to him and what He would guide Paul into understanding.
Paul repudiates the KNOWING charismatic practices at Corinth.

The DIVIDED CHURCH has been caused by deliberatly SOWING OF DISCORD among the once- Christian colleges an a new crop of Phds, whom Jesus fired, going out as Prophets, Chanellers and Facilitators of changes DELIBERATELY blown by change agents who no longer have faith.

Lynn Anderson Number One

Lynn Anderson Number Two

Lynn Anderson uses terms quite idential to neo-paganism or witchcraft. See another Grace -Centered proposal for witchcraft in the church.

Dennis Downing: When faced with a divided church, divided hearts, and divided allegiances, Paul knew there was only one solution -- go back to the Foundation.

Today winds of change may blow, questions may arise as to who to listen to, who to trust in, who is faithful and who is not.

One thing we know, the foundational message for the church and for the disciple is this --
Christ and him crucified.
The message points not to an
idea, a cause or an affirmation. The message points to a person -- Jesus Christ.

This sounds like the Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly Just-Jesus which sounds like Anti-Christ. The winds blow such things as MUSIC during the Lord's Supper, Clapping, singing silly erotic praise songs, the USE of Musical Worship Teams prophesied, the acceptance and then use of Instrumental Music, Sabbath Assembly, replacing the elders with a STAFF INFECTION. Building a mega-church complex governed in a pyramidal scheme idential to that of that of the Tower of Babylon and removing CHRIST off the singn and minds of the people. Sure, they chant JUST JESUS but this is ANTI CHRIST.

Something must be built upon the foundtion. Jesus said that He came for a CAUSE and the church was built upon the OBJECTIVE FOUNDATION which the Apostles- prophets laid by PREACHING.

He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. John 12:25

If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour. John 12:26

Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. Jn.12:27

Paul meant that to KNOW Christ and Him as sacrificial preacher who WENT OUT to preach, then you have to ABANDON your life and fortune. There is no place in the kingdom for those who just have a knowing relationship with God and INSIST that there is no more: no doctrine, no baptism, no suffering, no being despised and rejected of men.

Furthermore, Jesus had the cause of casting out or disabling the prince of the world. There is no GOSPEL unless God disables Satan:

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. John 12:31

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:32

This he said, signifying what death he should die. John 12:33


AND I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. 1 Cor 2:1

The Spirit is the Spirit of Christ (1 Pe 1:11):

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Rev 19:10

For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 1 Cor 2:2

Paul IMMEDIATELY explains what he meant:

And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. 1 Cor 2:3

No faithful preacher can PERFORM as a rhetorician or sOPHISts or singer or musician. These are SECTARIANS of the Hypocrite persuasion. Jesus lumped the Hypocrites or performing people with the Pharisees and Scribes. The Greek identifies them as the sorcerers and PARASITES.

The testimony of God is whatever Jesus Christ who AS GOD came to die for the sins of the world in order to cleanse them and make them fit to become DISCIPLES of His Word. How do we know the meaning of CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED?

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of mans wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 1 Cor 2:4

Jesus said while saying THE FLESH counts for nothing that:

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

Paul spoke only what he learned or heard from Jesus Christ. Jesus, in turn as SON, spoke only what He heard from the FATHER Who was within. He spoke that with the BREATH of God which is SPIRIT. Peter said that the word is not subject to private interpretation or further expounding (by sOPHISts) because it was delivered from Deith, was witnessed, was recorded for our REMEMBRANCE. Furthermore, when you speak OF YOURSELVES Jesus says that the Devil is your father.

The SCRIPTURE as Spirit and Life is to MARK false teachers or preacher:

That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 1 Cor 2:5

That means that NO MAN can substitute for the songs and sermons already preached by Jesus Christ the SPIRIT of the prophets.

Paul said nothing about KNOWING Christ in the presumed "sexual" sense. Rather, to know Christ is to Act like Christ who laid aside His Majesty and Glory to come to earth to bridge the gap and become the Teacher of mankind through His Word. Of the common theatrical performers who influenced by their own persona,

"Yet those who eagerly pursue it shout lustily, and croak like so many ravens. You have, too, contrived the art of rhetoric to serve injustice and slander,

selling the free power of your speech for hire,
and often representing the same thing at one time as right, at another time as not good.

The poetic art, again, you employ to describe battles, and the amours of the gods, and the corruption of the soul. Taitan

"You might hear many poor wretches of sophists, shouting and abusing each other, and their disciples, as they call them, squabbling; and many writers of books reading their stupid compositions, and many poets singing their poems, and many jugglers (buffons) exhibiting their marvels, and many soothsayers giving the meaning of prodigies, and then a thousand rhetoricians twisting lawsuits, and no small number of traders driving their several trades.

"The Greeks were intoxicated with fine words; and to them the Christian preacher with his blunt message seemed a crude and uncultured figure, to be laughed at and ridiculed rather than to be listened to and respected. (Barclay, William, First Corinthians, p. 19-20)

Paul had to be poor when with the poor. However, the conversion at Baptism gave the believer A holy spirit or A clear consciousness. Therefore, to the perfected Paul delivered the MEAT of the Word meaning DOCTRINE.

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 1 Cor 2:6

"Yet the Gospel preaching, so far from being at variance with true "wisdom," is a wisdom infinitely higher than that of the wise of the world

The perfected

Teleios (g5046) tel'-i-os; from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neut. (as noun, with 3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Note This if it is human wisdom "sophistry":

Sophia (g4678) sof-ee'-ah; from 4680; wisdom (higher or lower, worldly or spiritual): - wisdom.

When the super-apostles spoke human wisdom they were very popular and could easily discredit Paul and move into a position in the new churches. However, they might well build a large audience but they could not assist people in becoming spiritual. Simply by mixing the wisdom of the world's phylosophers the mystery of the gospel was made ineffective.

On the contrary, Jesus said that the FLESH counts for nothing: My Words are Spirit and Life. The thing that identified Jesus as the SON was that He was not an egomaniac. Rather, He spoke only what He heard from the FATHER whom He said was "within me."

Dennis Downing: Few are interested in the truth.

I believe that it is a fact that FEW churches and FEWER preachers are interested in the TRUTH. Worship is in the PLACE of the human spirit as it gives heed to the TRUTH in the Word. Where will you find a preacher able to rise above outlines and fully explain the facts often hidden in parables in the Bible. Sermonic performance has replaced the direct command of Paul to Timothy to "give attendance to the public reading of the Word, to exhortaton (on that which is read) and to doctrine (contained in that which is read.) You can go through twenty years of CHURCH and just get confused. The people in the days of Amos were HUNGRY and THIRSTY for the word but the clergy had replaced it with MUSICAL CELEBRATION while lading a burden on the people." That is WRONG because it has neve been tried in our generation.

Dennis Downing: In the world in which we live, a lot of people are interested in what feels relevant, seems "politically correct" or has a valid ring to it. Few are interested in the truth.

But a lot of those same people are desperately seeking truth in a relationship. They want someone, at least one person to whom they can turn who will not turn away.

Paul didn't speak about truth in relationship; truth is objective.

That is undoubtedly true. However, we are pilgrims and strangers in a hostile world. Jesus didn't have a place to lay His head. However, this is not authority for the church to turn from synagogue of Christ or school of the Bible to be the BEDDING MINISTRY to the poor on a CORPORATE level.

You cannot KNOW a person until you know ABOUT them. However Dennis Downing claims that

Dennis Downing: That is why the Gospel points not to an idea but to a person, not to a truth but to The Truth. Jesus proved he was true to me when he died in my place.

Jesus proved he was the true way when he came back from the dead.

Jesus came alive FOR A PURPOSE. He validated His Deity as the Living Word delivering the Spoken and Writen Word of God. He established a WAY which is not JUST JESUS but what Jesus as the Spirit OF truth delivered. It is pernicious to SILENCE JESUS as He speaks through His Word.

And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men. Mt.22:16

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Jn.14:6

What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. Ph.1:18

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2Pe.2:2

Isn't the very idea of God and One who comes to cleans spirits so that we can approach Him as a DISCIPLE an IDEA? First, Jesus SPOKE the objective truth about His resurrection. Then he spoke after His resurection. The MIRACLES were not to establish a relationship divorced from the SPOKEN and WRITTEN Word of the Living Word. His resurection validated His Deity. This is the purpose of fulfilled prophecy.

Dennis Downing: When you really come to know Jesus and him crucified --you know all you need to know.

You have come to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but that truth will satisfy.

Then why do false preachers charge for the FREE WATER OF THE WORD? Why not just get on the internet and say "JESUS AND HIM CRUCIFIED, JESUS AND HIM CRUCIFIED," collect your unlawful and ungodly fee and go on.

How about the DOCTRINE that Christ was fully God, laid aside His Majesty, came to earth, taught, died, was resurrected and ascended visibly into heaven. So, Jude and James and Reuben and thousands were CRUCIFIED. What about the RESURRECTION.

Why did Jesus teach the DOCTRINE that one must be baptized to be saved or have their sins remitted? The fact is that baptism was a common DISCIPLE MAKING practice. Only then did the MASTER TEACHER reveal to you his innermost mysteries and Paul went on to explain in 1 Corinthians.

Paul DID NOT preach JUST JESUS AND HIM CRUCIFIED. Rather he KNEW or lived the life like that of Christ without a wage, home or honor. Tortured even to death. Sea sick, puking, bitten by snakes, hounded by the THOUGHT POLICE, imprisoned, beaten to the point of death.

If you want to KNOW this then and only then are you competent to go beyond the MILK and deliver the MEAT of Doctrine to change the world.

I fear that the KNOWING Just- Jesus is Anti- Christ.

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. John 8:28

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do alway those things that please him. John 8:29

Rubel Shelly: Almost every generation has some version of this false teaching. So people are offered this or that counterfeit Jesus, this or that reinterpreted gospel. For some, it is Jesus-plus-human creed or Jesus-plus-extrabiblical confession. For others, it is Jesus-plus-our good deeds or Jesus-plus-our sectarian church. Jesus-plus-anything else is trouble!

Or, as we sometimes put it: Jesus-plus-anything equals nothing, and Jesus-plus-nothing equals everything.

But it is so tempting to tack onto the gospel my special take on the Lord's Supper or the millennium, how baptism must be understood or the second coming conceived,

how the church must worship or the only acceptable way for it to minister to widows and orphans.

On and on the Jesus-plus-options can go. And each progression is a movement away from the original Christian message.

Rubel believes that SATAN drives our Biblical view of baptism. That means, it is Satanic to have an exclusive view of baptism. But Max, Dennis and Rubel have their EXCLUSIVE view that there IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG view of baptism

That is why trinitarians NEVER thought of the Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly Family of Gods. They are seen as three persons (people) able to send the other, more qualified for a DISPENSATION than the other, and re Rubel Shelly the father god and the spirit god ACED OUT the little ignorant son god so that he was tricked into dying for mankind.

That is DOCTRINE taught by Lord Jesus Christ: "My Lord and My God." If you adhere to the Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly dogma you DENY that Christ came FULLY In the flesh and that makes you Anti-Christ.

The Bible gives no hope that you can be JUST-JESUS and ANTI-CHRIST and still claim that the Holy Spirit "person" guides you into NEW truth.

That defines heresy according to Paul Tillich.

Christ was and is God: WITH God because He IS God. As full Deity, Christ laid aside His Majesty and Glory and came to A BODY PREPARED FOR ME. God imaged Himself as Father, Son and Spirit. To see the Son was to see the Father. The Spirit lived and walked among them as Jesus Christ. Therefore, Jesus disuptes the JUST- JESUS which seems to be ANTI-CHRIST:

As he spake these words, many believed on him. John 8:30

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; John 8:31

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:32

Jesus didn't send the evangelists out to MAKE LOVERS for Christ. Neither did He send them out to MAKE WORSHIPERS of them by USING professionals. The WAY of Jesus PLUS is to make DISCIPLES or students. That means that church is SYANGOGUE OF CHRIST and has no role for PROFESSIONAL STAFF and hypocrites (actors).

Both Peter and Paul MARKED the false teachers by the SIGN that they refuse to "teach that which has been taught." Such sermonizing denies that the TRUTH was spoken BY Jesus the Christ, was handed on to APOSTLES and validated by Signs and Wonders. Peter WROTE that message down so that we have a REMEMBRANCE. Peter went further and denied our right to PRIVATE INTERPRETATION which is FURTHER EXPOUNDING.

That is a DOCTRINE to MARK false teachers. Jesus not yet crucified set them up to teach another DOCTRINE which is enabled only in baptism to make us covenant people.

They answered him, We be Abrahams seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? John 8:33

Here is another DOCTRINE: he that commiteth sin is the servant of sin. That ADDS doctrine to the JUST-JESUS. Just-Jesus people have no trouble repudiating the DOCTRINE of Jesus the CHRIST:

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. John 8: 34

If the Son does not abide in the house that as Father He built which is greater than that of Moses, they this DOCTRINE repudiates the just-teaching of the just-CHRIST.

And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. John 8: 35

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. John 8: 36

I know that ye are Abrahams seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. John 8: 37

Jesus said that TRUTH had been revealed in PARABLES from the foundation of the world beginning in Genesis 1:1. This was to HIDE the truth from those who simply had no PLACE in them for TRUTH.

I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. John 8: 38

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abrahams children, ye would do the works of Abraham. John 8: 39

The FAITH which Justified Abraham meant that Abrahan OBEYED God's command each and every time he heard it. A BELIEVER is an OBEDIENT believer:

And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Gen 26:4

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Gen 26: 5

Jesus does not agree with Dennis Downing and all of the JUST JESUS and no more NEW religion which is modern Gnosticism:

But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. John 8: 40

There is an actual LUST to take CHRIST out of the identifier of the end-time church. As postmoderns, it is quite spiritual to lie, cheat and "steal the church houses of widows." Many of them say in a cautious way that JESUS was born of fornication. In The Songs of Christmas the SHAME Mary is put through (not so) is compared to that of Cherokee Sal, the camp prostitute. This is what the came out of demon minds:

Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. John 8: 41

Scripture identifies Cain (a musical note, Jubal, Jubilee) as OF THAT WICKED ONE and the product of Satan. His lineage somehow leaped the FLOOD event and immediately restored MUSICAL WORSHIP.

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. John 8: 42

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. John 8: 43

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8: 44

And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. John 8: 45

The Apostle Paul had NO MESSAGE and NO DOCTRINE. But JUST JESUS repudiates this:

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. John 5:46

But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? John 5:47

Doctrine is the teachings OF Jesus and not just ABOUT Jesus:

Didache (g1322) did-akh-ay'; from 1321; instruction (the act or the matter): - doctrine, hath been taught.

And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters (gramma), having never learned? John 7:15

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. John 7:16

But Dennis Downing repudiates even Jesus the Christ whose SPIRIT led the prophets:

Dennis Downing: Key Quote: "Paul was not given a message or a doctrine to proclaim, he was brought into a

relationship to Jesus Christ. Verse 16 [Acts 26:16] is immensely commanding--"to make thee a minister and a witness."

But, Paul wrote:

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 1 Cor 2:7

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 1 Cor 2:8

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1 Cor 2:9

Now, that sounds like an IDEA in addition to a Person. The GOSPEL is not seven facts ABOUT Jesus but the good news is whatever Christ came to do until we all get to heaven.

Contra Promise Keepers, Jesus was never a PHALLIC KIND OF GUY. He did not enter into vivid, personal, overmastering relationship with Paul who was also a man's man and having your VISION knocked out does not sound like a KNOWING JESUS experience.

Rather the Spirit named Jesus of Nazareth told Paul what HE MUST DO:

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16

It sounds like Jesus the Spirit, the Mind of God, taught the doctrine of BAPTISM to wash away sins as one calls on God are requests A clear conscience which is A holy personal spirit.

Dennis Downing: 'to make thee a minister and a witness.'

There is nothing there apart from the personal relationship.


But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Ac.26:16

Paul was sent out as an evangelist and a witness but he had no personal relationship with Jesus in this sense.

Clement in Stromata.

"You see how he is moved against them, calling their art of logic-on which, those to whom this garrulous mischievous art is dear, whether Greeks or barbarians, plume themselves-a disease (nosoj). Very beautifully, therefore, the tragic poet Euripides says in the Phoenissae,-

"But a wrongful speech Is diseased in itself, and needs skilful medicines."

For the saving Word is called "wholesome," He being the truth; and what is wholesome (healthful) remains ever deathless.

Jesus knew that it was not a PERSONAL relationship as equals but His Spirit would be taught by suffering servants:

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Luke 4:4

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matt 4:4

So, it is the WORD of Christ which He said is SPIRIT and LIFE through which we have that relationship.

Dennis Downing: Paul was devoted to a Person not to a cause.
He was absolutely Jesus Christ's; he saw nothing else;
lived for nothing else.

'For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.'" (Oswald Chambers, My Utmost for His Highest, Grand Rapids, MI: Discovery House Publishers 1989.)

DID NOT say "Preach Just Jesus and Him Crucified." The gospel as beginning point or PROTOS meant the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus the Christ. Mark quoting Malachi said that the beginning or CORNER of the GOSPEL was the Baptism of John and Jesus which would ask God to purify with fire and WASH us as with fuller's soap.

This is a PERVERSION of Scripture: KNOWING means to be aware and to IMITATE Christ who, as Paul validated his own ministry was ready to DIE to take the DOCTRINES about Christ to the world. To KNOW does not mean TO TEACH "just Jesus" to establish a PERSONAL relationship. This is a spiritist's or pagan view that one must personally expererence the TOUCH AND FEEL of a relationship or one cannot KNOW at all.

ALL of the preachers think Paul said "I determined not to PREACH anything."

g1492 Eido Be aware, have knowledge, be sure, tell, understand

Knowing \Know"ing\, n. Knowledge; hence, experience. `` In my knowing.'' --Shak.

Jesus did NOT hang onto Paul like a lover but sent him out to TEACH what he knew ABOUT Jesus Christ. Jesus knew that He was sending out a MAN'S MAN ready to know Christ in the sense of DYING LIKE CHRIST.

ALL of the preachers think Paul said "I determined not to PREACH anything."

g1492 Eido Be aware, have knowledge, be sure, tell, understand

1Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
1Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching
        was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom,
         but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.</font>


2Co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee:
        behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
2Co 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, 

Christ and Him Crucified was a DEACON.
Diakonos (g1249) dee-ak'-on-os; prob. from an obs. diako , (to run on errands; comp. 1377; an attendant, i.e. (gen.) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); spec. a Chr. teacher and pastor (techn. a deacon or deaconess): - deacon, minister, servant
in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Co 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
2Co 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness,
        by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,

2Co 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
2Co 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
2Co 6:9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
2Co 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing,
        and yet possessing all things.

2Co 6:11 O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.

The Vineyard, the New Wineskins and proven by the erotic praise songs, is that they really want to KNOW God in a sexual way. That is why they try to stimulate one another with voice and body manipulation. The climatic experience they say is experiencing God personally.

When Adam KNEW Eve the Word is:

co-gnosco I. To become thoroughly acquainted with (by the senses or mentally),
        to learn by inquiring, to examine, investigate, perceive, see, understand, learn;

        B. Mentally, to become acquainted with, learn, recognize, know:
II. To recognize that which is already known, acknowledge, identify
III. With the access. idea of individual exertion (cf. Gr. gignsk),
        to seek or strive to know something, to inquire into, to investigate, examine

Paul taught THAT form of knowing:

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him:
        for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
        and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

However, in the sense of corrupting the Word or "selling learning at retail" is also adultery.
        euphem of sexual intercourse, Ov. H. 6, 133 aliquam adulterio

The religious world is in utter contempt of "musical worship teams" whose PERSONA is bi-sexual or they would NEVER have been selected by the feminine half of the flock.

Brian cannot even FIND an end-time preacher who does not KNOW HIMSELF rather than just seeking to know WHAT Jesus taught without trying to invent dogma to make the "experience" more climatic.

The New Wineskins and your new "praise song book from Howard" is a Vineyard THRUST.

Jesus as SON spoke only what He heard from the FATHER who was "within." Jesus was God in the flesh as the WORD as specificially distinct from the SENSUOUS nature of pagan religion.

Among older trinitarians God was never separated. The Father was the THOUGHT, the Son was the Word and the Spirit was the wind or breath of God.

By the (1) word of the (2) Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the (3) breath (spirit) of his mouth. Ps.33:6

Therefore, Paul knew that he was given specific things to teach (doctrine) and he was baptized to "wash away thy sins." Paul COULD NOT have A holy spirit or A clear conscience until He obed the DOCTRINE or teaching OF Christ:

And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.' Ac.22:16

Apolouo (g628) ap-ol-oo'-o; from 575 and 3068; to wash fully, i.e. (fig.) have remitted (reflex): - wash (away).

Calling on the name of the MASTER was what all disciples did: they took on the name of the Master Teacher. Later, Jesus didn't speak of a love-like relationship but:

But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,

to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen,
and of
those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Acts 26:16

This was the equivalent of the Apostles to guide them into all truth. If Jesus wasn't lying, then JUST JESUS is not all the truth. Jesus has no toleration for Lord, Lord sayers who claim supernatural attachment but those who teach and obey His DOCTRINE.

Jesus established a SYNAGOGUE which is a school of the Bible and NOT a pagan worship center. Jesus is not the intimate lover, the Phallic Kind of Guy: Jesus is God Incarnate who came to TEACH Divine truth.

Does this sound like an intimate affair or doctrine. Didn't Jesus reveal to the sure-to-dye Paul a PLAN and a CAUSE and a METHOD?

Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, Acts 26:17

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:18

Turn and repent gives one the power to BE BAPTIZED. This is the only DOCTRINE of Christ in which He taught as the time and place to ASK for the forgiveness of sins and receiving A holy spirit. Without A holy spirit one would not be able worship God in the new PLACE of the personal spirit. This was prefigured by the Most Holy Place. This was the throne room and we can come UNAIDED to meet God. The WORD OF GOD was in the Most Holy Place.

Faith ony DOES NOT forgive sins. Faith only does not cause God to ADD you to the church with an inheritance. Faith only does not sanctify one's spirit:

Hagiazo (g37) hag-ee-ad'-zo; from 40; to make holy, i.e. (cer.) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate: - hallow, be holy, sanctify.

Nothing but Baptism REQUESTS A holy spirit or a regenerated spirit.

This happens only at baptism as Jesus commanded and everyone understood:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

Hagios (g40) hag'-ee-os; from hagos , (an awful thing) [comp. 53, 2282]; sacred (phys. pure, mor. blameless or religious, cer. consecrated): - (most) holy (one, thing), saint

This was the DOCTRINE of Christ as the only way for BELIEVERS to be saved at the time and place of baptism.

This means the gift of A holy spirit which is the meaning of SANCTIFIED by faith only AFTER the forgiveness of sins. This never happens outside of Baptism which is defined by the same Peter:

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 1 Pet 3:21

This means the anti-type. Anti-type means INSTEAD OF. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins. Jesus shed His blood for the remission of our sins. Now, we don't have to DIE ON THE CROSS to receive a NEW SPIRIT: Baptism is ultimate GRACE in that Jesus' doctrine said that you can go through THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE without having to suffer on the cross. To minimize BAPTISM repudiates the DOCTRINE of Christ and His means of GRACE.

A "personal" relationship comes only after baptism where one receives A holy spirit. This enables one to go beyond first principles and eat the "meat" of the Word. Jesus established a synagogue or school of the bible and not a dating service.

A clear conscience is a clear consiousness. In the Greek it means a co-perception. A disciple is first baptized before the Master Tent Maker shares the secrets of his trade. Jesus doesn't really speak clearly to us until we DISCIPLE to Him at Baptism.

Suneidêsis , eôs, hê, knowledge shared with another

2. communication, information, heurêseis s. PPar. p.422 (ii A.D.); s. eisênenkan tois kollêgais autôn POxy. 123.13 (iii/iv A.D.).
3. knowledge, lue tauta panta mê dialeipsas agathêi s. (v.l. agathêi tuchêi) Hp.Ep.1.
consciousness, awareness

One obeys a DIRECT COMMAND. Otherwise one is DISOBEDIENT:

Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: Acts 26:19

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance Acts 26:20

For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. Acts 26:21

Sorry, but Jesus came to see the warrior spirits able to worship in the PLACE of their spirit. That spirit is made HOLY by the blood of Christ. Then, our Carnal Weapons are not Lifeless Instruments but the Sword of the Spirit, etc.

As a result of baptism we are regenerated or become A NEW MAN of victory.

Repent ye therefore, and

be converted,

that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of
refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Ac.3:19

Andronikos (g408) an-dron'-ee-kos; from 435 and 3534; man of victory; Andronicos, an Isr.: - Andronicus.

Then Peter said unto them,

Repent, and

be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ

for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of
(A) the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

Converted means:

Epistrepho (g1994) ep-ee-stref'-o; from 1909 and 4762; to revert (lit., fig. or mor.): - come (go) again, convert, (re-) turn (about, again)

Blotted out is:

Ecaleipho (g1813) ex-al-i'-fo; from 1537 and 218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, fig. pardon sin): - blot out, wipe away.

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Col 2:11

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith,

having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience,
our bodies washed with pure water. Heb.10:22

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you,

not as a removal of dirt from the body
but as an appeal to God for a
clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 3:21RSV

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,

through sanctification of the Spirit,
unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 1 Peter 1:2

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Col 2:12

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col 2:13

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col 2:14

See that an elder is involved with the Word and Doctrine or he isn't an elder.

Of course, we miss the point that Paul stopped there because the Corinthians were still carnal confirmed by their composing their own songs and speeches.

See how Paul declared that HE would know or submit to Jesus Christ, but to the perfected he would teach the MEAT OF THE WORD. Assuredly, Jesus didn't propose some intimate RELATIONSHIP but commanded that any honest evangelist go out, preach the MILK and then the MEAT of the Word which IS DOCTRINE.

In Narrative Theology, John York and Rubel Shelly would take the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai have its second incarnation as a pattern for Christian worship and community.

Dennis Downing: Prayer: Oh Father, through the love of your precious son Jesus Christ we have come to know you. How sweet it is to know you now in this way.

Before I thought I knew you,
but what I knew were things
about you.
Now, thanks to Jesus, I have come to
know you.

Knowing as proclaimed by charismatics is: 5. To have sexual commerce with.

The qualification for being an apostle was to have witnessed or have known Jesus Christ as the man. There are TWO ways one can KNOW Jesus: First, one must have been present in the first century. Or, second, one must know Jesus in an intimate, sexual meaning of the word TO KNOW. That means that one must have had a VISION of the VISIBLE Christ but now Christ is the INVISIBLE God the Spirit. Jesus lives in the SPIRIT DIMENSION and you cannot KNOW Him other than through KNOWING ABOUT HIM.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him John 1:18

If you LOVE Jesus as a healthy male here is what you will do without minimizing the DOCTRINES of Christ:

If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:

but ye know him;
for he dwelleth
with you,
and shall be
in you. John 14:17
I will not leave you comfortless:
I will come to you. John 14:18

Dennis Downing again: "Paul was not given a message or a doctrine to proclaim, he was brought into a

vivid, personal, overmastering
relationship to Jesus Christ.

Vivid means: True to the life; exhibiting the appearance of life or freshness; animated; spirited; bright; strong; intense; as, vivid colors.

In dazzling streaks the vivid lightnings play. --Cowper.

I don't remember Paul ever getting above PERSECUTION to have that kind of EXPERIENCE with God.

Personal: Pertaining to human beings as distinct from things.

Paul Tillich said that calling God a PERSON began in the 19th century and is HERESY. God is never a PEOPLE.

Master is: To become the master of; to subject to one's will, control, or authority; to conquer; to overpower; to subdue.

This is the CALVINISTIC theology of Max Lucado.

Relationship: The state of being related by kindred, affinity, or other alliance. --Mason

Jesus or Jehovah- Saves is FULL DEITY of Father, Son and Spirit. Jesus never promised an intimate, KNOWING relationship with humans. If you got that close to God you would be burned to a crisp.

At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. John 14:20

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21

Ginosko (g1097) ghin-oce'-ko; - allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) know (- ledge), perceive, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.

Judas would be MARKED by the sop as related to the GRINDING of musical melody:

Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? John 14:22

Emphanizo (g1718) em-fan-id'-zo; from 1717; to exhibit (in person) or disclose (by words): - appear, declare (plainly), inform, (will) manifest, shew, signify.

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words:

and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:23

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Fathers which sent me. John 14:24

These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. John 14:25

Anyone who minimizes the DOCTRINE of water baptism fails to justify God. That is, they call God a LIAR. Water Baptism is a DOCTRINE of Jesus Christ and a SOUL is lost when it minimizes the purpose of God for their lives.

And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. Luke 7:29

But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. Luke 7:30

Can you have your sins remitted by an intimate, sexual experience of KNOWING Christ and denounce knowing ABOUT Jesus Christ, then you can be saved by your OWN charismatic experience of the BODY.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Fathers commandments, and abide in his love. Jn.15:10

Abide is not a sexual relationship but:

Meno (g3306) men'-o; a prim. verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), * thine own.

Other than the apostles including Paul no one knows Jesus in a personal way. Rather, the word DECLARED is:

Ecegeomai (g1834)ex-ayg-eh'-om-ahee; from 1537 and 2233; to consider out (aloud), i.e. rehearse, unfold: - declare, tell.

Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. Ac.15:14

The knowledge ABOUT Jesus is shown when Paul "Manifested the SPIRIT by his preaching." None of the early disciples other than false prophets were ever said to KNOW JESUS PERSONALLY. This is a modern CHARISMATIC invention of men totally unhappy to know ABOUT Jesus.

Dennis Downing: There is so much more to discover,
        so much more to
know about you.
        I know
you will lead me.

Obedience to Jesus, submission to your word is pleasure, oh, Father, when we come to know Jesus. It is not a burden or a chore, it is a joy.

Help us to look past the words of men to see The Word.

Let us settle for nothing less. Leave us hungry, destitute and desperate until we know him and kneel in grateful discipleship to him and him alone. Thank you for your word which gives us a faithful portrait of him and of our life in him. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.

God as the LIVING WORD came to earth as the SPEAKING, REVEALING Word. Jude warns from Enoch about God's judgement. In these old records the TRANSGRESSION was falling under Satan's temptation of music and sexuality. Jude wrote:

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation,

it was needful for me to write unto you,
exhort you that ye should earnestly contend
the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 3

Seeking a SHORT CUT to knowledge through a KNOWING experience of God does not cause us to KNOW more. Neither is knowing Jesus a product of prayer. Jude made it clear that the RECORDED Word was their capable source of knowledge. And when the churches such as Corinth needed new instructions, Paul WROTE THEM A LETTER.

Home Page

Home... Apocalyptic... Apocryphal... Awakening... Baptism.....Caneridge... Church.... Colonial... Godhead.... MaxLucado... Lynn.Aderson... Musical Worship... Preaching... Restoration... RubelShelly... Search Our Site... Tongues... Topical...


Counter added 9.18.05 3:48p 1500 Rev 5.22.07 902  4.07.09 4000
<img src="/cgi-bin/Count.cgi?df=piney/counter_Dennis.Downing.html.dat">