Bobby Valentine: Marcionism and Churches of Christ

Bobby Valentine Stoned: In previous essays under the working title "Marcionism & Churches of Christ" we have asked basically why are we here. Now I want to explore what happens when we actually "loose" the Hebrew Bible as a shaping/grounding source for "sound doctrine" (a phrase btw that cannot be reduced to the "marks of the church" as is so frequently done)

See Joe Shulam "First Century Jewish Identity as Model."
See Joe Shulam "First Century Jewish Identity as Model Part Two."

Joseph Shulam: Netivyah "The Way of the Lord."

Israel sat down to eat and rose up to play: play is musical idolatry and the "spectacle of worship" people impose on their way back to Babylon.

They sat Down to Eat and Rose Up To Play  God gave Israel The Book of The Covenant of Grace as that made by Christ to Abraham.  The Israelites engaged in musical idolatry of the Egyptian trinity. God gave them The Book of The Law and Moses coultd not atone for them. The Angle (Christ) led them but God said nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.

Christ came to give REST to those who were baptized into Christ: [Gal 3]. There can be no racial distinction in the body of Christ who rescued Jews along with the Abrahamic Gens who were not so burdened.

I will Give you Rest.  Don't pay for people to force you to violate that Gospel promise.

It so happens that the Hebrew Bible is a library of the good, the bad and the ugly.  Moses wrote or collected the history of the Hebrews as babylonians: Gentiles.  After the fall into musical idolatry at Mount Sinai God removed the Abrahamic Covenant or The Book of The Covenant and gave them The Book of the Law which was not good or of spiritual value. God condemned the people of PROMISE to be returned to the land but on their way back to Babylon. Moses wrote an inverted account we can read on clay tablets: this was to prove that the true Jehovah serves His people contrary to the Babylon gods who made mankind to serve the gods as slaves.

The Book of the Covenant was ammended by The Laws of the Monarchy and the record of their Jacob-Cursed reign.  Christ through the prophets warns about the Lying Pen of the Scribes.  Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites by pointing to Isaiah and Ezekien 33 where Christ names self-preachers, singers and instrument players.

The Spirit OF (preposition) Christ inspired the writing Prophets who totally repudiated the Civil-Military-Clergy complex as robbers and parasites.  In fact, sacrificial musicians in the Greek is "parasites."  By prophesying with instruments we know that they SOOTHSAYED with instruments.


1 Tim 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law;
understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

1 Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good,
        if a man use it lawfully;

Contrary to Bobby Valentine and the Hebrew Roots heresy:

1 Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,
        but for the lawless and disobedient,
        for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane,
        for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

PROFANE G952 bebïlos beb'-ay-los From the base of G939 and bïlos (a threshold); accessible (as by crossing the door way), that is, (by implication of Jewish notions) heathenish, wicked:profane (person).

1 Tim 1:10 For whoremongers,
for them that defile themselves with mankind,
for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons,
and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

1 Tim 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God,
which was committed to my trust.

Here is what is contrary to Sound Teachings of Jesus Christ:

2 Cor 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Kapeleuo (g2585) kap-ale-yoo'-o; from kapelos , (a huckster); to retail, i.e. (by impl.) to adulterate (fig.): - corrupt

kapêl-euô , A. to be a retail-dealer, drive a petty trade... kapêleu' drive a trade, chaffer with your vegetable food Hdt.1.155

II. c. acc., sell by retail, ton herpin Hippon.51 .

2. metaph., k. ta prêgmata, of Darius, Hdt.3.89; k. ta mathêmata sell learning by retail, hawk it about, Pl. Prt.313d; k. ton logon tou theou 2 Ep.Cor.2.17 ; so eoiken ou kapêleusein machên will not peddle in war, i. e. fight half-heartedly, A.Th. 545; k. têi Chariti tên amoibên Epicur.Sent.Vat.39 ; k. tên politeian traffic in grants of citizenship, D.C.60.17; k. tês hôras anthos or tên hôran, of prostitutes, Ph.2.394,576; eirênên pros Rhômaious Chrusiou k. Hdn.6.7.9; tuchê kapêleuousa . . ton bion playing tricks with life, [p. 876] corrupting it, AP9.180 (Pall.).

The Iamblichus

There are some, however, who suppose there is likewise, the subject-race of a tricky nature, artful, and assuming all shapes, turning many ways, that personates gods and dæmons and souls of the dead like actors on the stage; and that through these everything that seems to be good or bad is possible. They are led to form this judgment because these subject-spirits are not able to contribute anything really beneficial as relates to the soul, nor even to perceive such things; but on the other hand, they ill treat, deride, and often impede those who are returning to virtue.

They are likewise full of conceit, and take delight in vapors and sacrifices.

5. Because the begging priest with open mouth attempts in many ways to raise our expectations. Note 13

13. The agurtes or begging priest generally belonged to the worship of Rhea [ZOE] or Cybele, the Mother. He is frequently depicted in a most unfavorable light. Apuleius speaks of a company of these emasculate priests in the eighth book of the Metamorphoses. They are also described in the Republic of Plato:

"Agurtæ and Mantics frequent the houses of the rich and persuade them that they possess a power granted by the gods to expiate,

by sacrifices and chants any unjust act that has been committed and that they induce the gods by blandishments and magic rites to help them.

They collected money in this way, and they also followed the selling of nostrums and telling of fortunes."


2Timothy 4:1  I charge thee therefore
        before God,
        and the Lord Jesus Christ,
        who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season,
        out of season; reprove, rebuke,
        exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

THESIS: The SOLE role of an Ekklesia or Synagogue of Christ.

2Timothy 4:2 Preach the WORD; be instant in season, out of season;
        reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Timothy 4:3 For [I mean that]  the time will come
        when they will not endure sound doctrine;
  but after their own lusts
Hugiano  2. to be sound of mind, teachings
3.  of soundness in political or religious matters, esp. in part., “to hugiainon tēs HelladosId.7.15; hoi hugiainontes,

. turbulent agitators, Plb.28.17.12;
Opposite Kamno work
hopē anthrōpos ekameBerl.Sitzb. 1927.158 (Cyrene).--The pf. is always intr. (Cf. Skt. śamnīte 'work hard', 'serve zealously', śamitár- 'sacrificing priest', Gr. eiro-komos, komeō, komizō.)

         [looking for sexual love ; epithumia [boy love]by passion,

         Opposite. pronoia [forthought, learning]
Teaching to Their own songs and sermons:
, later form of knaō, A. scratch, “hōs legetai, knēthein oiden onos ton onon
Onos , 1. o. luras (sc. akouōn), of one who can make nothing of music, o. luras ēkoue kai salpiggos hus; 2. peri onou skias for an ass'ss hadow, i.e. for a trifle,
an ass in the rain, of being unmoved by what is said or done,
2. the upper millstone which turned round, “o. aletēsX.An.1.5.5 ;
Xen. Const. Lac. 2.13 But if it was clear that the attraction lay in the boy's outward beauty, he banned the connexion as an abomination; and thus he caused lovers to abstain from boys no less than parents abstain from sexual intercourse with their children and brothers and sisters with each other.


Epithu_m-ētēs , oi, ho,
A. one who longs for or desires, neōterōnergōnHdt.7.6; [dogmatōn] And.4.6; “ergōnLys.12.90; timēs, sophias, Pl.R.475b, etc.; phusei polemou e. Arist.Pol.1253a6; “kakōn1 Ep.Cor.10.6; “allotriōnBGU531 ii 22 (ii A.D.).
2. . abs., lover, follower, X.Mem.1.2.60.
b. . one who lusts, LXX Nu.11.34.
in divination, S.OT 502 (ly

SOPHIA A.cleverness or skill in handicraft and art, Hephaestus , in music and singing, in poetry also, cunning, shrewdness, craft, Hdt.1.68,  in music and singing, tekhnē kai s. h.Merc.483, cf. 511; in poetry, Sol.13.52, Pi.O.1.117, Ar.Ra.882, X.An.1.2.8,

Sophistês , ou, ho, master of one's craft, adept, expert, of diviners, Hdt.2.49; of poets, meletan sophistais prosbalon Pi.I.5(4).28 , cf. Cratin.2; of musicians, sophistês . . parapaiôn chelun A.Fr.314 , cf. Eup.447, Pl.Com. 140; sophistêi Thrêiki (sc. Thamyris) E.Rh.924, cf. Ath.14.632c: with mod

2. sophist (in bad sense), quibbler, cheat, goeta one who howls out enchantments, a sorcerer, enchanter. Goes

Goês , êtos, ho, A. sorcerer, wizard, Phoronis 2, Hdt.2.33 ,4.105 , Pl.R. 380d , Phld.Ir.p.29 W.; g. epôidos Ludias apo chthonos E.Ba.234 , cf. Hipp.1038 ; prob. f.l. for boêisi Hdt.7.191 .
2. juggler, cheat, deinos g. kai pharmakeus kai sophistês Pl.Smp.203d ; deinon kai g. kai sophistên . . onomazôn D.18.276 ; apistos g. ponêros Id.19.109 ; magos kai g. Aeschin.3.137
Elders are tasked and limited:
Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught,
        that he may be able by sound doctrine
        both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
First, let us say that when preachers presume to be scholars and have a destructive agenda they may make vile RACA statements against those who probably "did them wrong." The other impulse is the Hebrew Roots Movement which is ANTI-Christian and proves to be ignorant of the story lines running through the Old Testament:

Marcionism was an Early Christian dualist belief system that originated in the teachings of Marcion of Sinope at Rome144;[1] see also Christianity in the 2nd century. around the year

Marcion believed Jesus Christ was the savior sent by God and Paul of Tarsus was his chief apostle, but he rejected the Hebrew Bible and the God of Israel (YHWH Elohim).

Marcionists believed that the wrathful Hebrew God was a separate and lower entity than the all-forgiving God of the New Testament. This belief was in some ways similar to Gnostic Christian theology; notably, both are dualistic.

Marcionism, similar to Gnosticism, depicted the Hebrew God of the Old Testament as a tyrant or demiurge (see also God as the Devil).

Marcion of Sinope
Tertullian accuses Marcion of Sinope, the first major heretic of Christianity in the 1st century AD, that he "[held that] the Old Testament was a scandal to the faithful … and … accounted for it by postulating [that Jehovah was] a secondary deity, a demiurgus, who was god, in a sense, but not the supreme God; he was just, rigidly just, he had his good qualities, but he was not the good god, who was Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ."[4]
Of course, that is all false. Churches of Christ do not reject the Old Testament: true Scholars understand that the Law of Moses was imposed BECAUSE of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. For that cause God turned the Levi tribe over to worship the starry host and quarantined the godly people in the Qahal, Synagogue or Church of Christ in the wilderness.

What we call the Old Testament consists of many parts as the history of the Hebrew People.  That began as the Hebrews who lived as robbers of caravans who tagged along with Abraham.  After 430 years God rescued them from Egypt but they immediately rejected THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT of Grace as the Abrahamic Covenant. As a result God gave them THE BOOK OF THE LAW to govern the people as God sent them kings in His anger to remove the musical idolaters BACK to Babylon where most remained.   THE LAWS OF THE KING were not based on the Covenant or Law of Moses.  If God abandoned them to worship the starry host then most of the Monarchy period WAS the worship of the starry host.


Genesis 49.5 Symeon et Levi fratres vasa iniquitatis bellantia

Gen. 49:5 Simeon and Levi are brethren;
        instruments (weapon, psaltery)
        of cruelty are in their habitations.
                 (stabbing, dig through furnace, for burning
                 Bellor fight,  carry on war,

Iniquitas B. Unfairness, injustice, unreasonableness: luxuria, praetoris, unreasonable demands in the shape of taxes,

Both the Sabbath and the tithe or "taxes" came from :5

Cruelty h2555 unjust gain Habitations h4380 Stabbing, a sword a furnace, boiling
         Instruments:  7015. qiynah, kee-naw´; from 6969; a dirge (as accompanied by beating the breasts
                               or on instruments):—lamentation.       
                       6969. quwn, koon; a primitive root; to strike a musical note, i.e. chant or wail (at a funeral):—
                       lament, mourning woman [from CAIN]
Remember That Cain was of the wicked one and Paul said that Eve was totally deceived as a wife is taken before her husband.

The Levites--an old Egyprian infant burning sect--were under the KING and commanders of the Army.

Verg. A. 11.660 
Swift through the midmost slaughter proudly strides
the quiver-girt Camilla, with one breast
thrust naked to the fight, like Amazon.
Oft from her hand her pliant shafts she rains,
or whirls with indefatigable arm
a doughty battle-axe; her shoulder bears
Diana's sounding [sŏno] arms and golden bow.
Sometimes retreating and to flight compelled,
the maiden with a rearward-pointing bow
shoots arrows as she flies. Around her move
her chosen peers, Larina, virgin brave,
Tarpeia, brandishing an axe of bronze,
and Tulla, virgins out of Italy
whom the divine Camilla chose to be
her glory, each a faithful servitress
in days of peace or war. The maids of Thrace
ride thus along Thermodon's frozen flood,
and fight with blazoned Amazonian arms
around Hippolyta; or when returns
Penthesilea in triumphal car
'mid acclamations shrill, [Ulŭlo halal] and all her host
of women clash in air the moon-shaped shield.

Fēmĭnĕus , II. Transf., with an accessory notion of contempt, womanish, effeminate, unmanly

exsulto (exult- ),to run riot, to revel;
2. Of an orator or an oration, diffuse, prolix: “fiunt pro grandibus tumidi ... laetis corrupti, compositis exsultantes,
Gen. 49:6 O my soul,
        come not thou into their secret;
        unto their assembly,
        mine honour,
        be not thou united:
                for in their anger they slew a man,
                and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.
Gen. 49:7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel:
        I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.

Divido I. To force asunder, part, separate, divide (very freq. and class.; cf.: distribuo, dispertio; findo, scindo, dirimo, divello, separo, sejungo, segrego, secerno).
Jacob Prophesied of Messiah as did others as the ANTITHESIS of anything and everything called "Judaism" which did not destroy the godly Israelites.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

to finish the transgression, and
to make an end of sins, and
to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
to anoint the most Holy.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand,

that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem,

unto the Messiah the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks

sshall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and
the people of the prince
that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;
and the end thereof shall be with a flood,
and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

and in the midst of the week he
shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,
even until the consummation,
and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Bobby Valentine Stoned: A word on the word "loss." By "loss" I do not mean to say a preacher never does a character study of a person which is one of the more frequent uses of the Hebrew Bible or quotes from it from time to time. By "loss" I mean the doctrine/theology of the Hebrew Bible that formed and shaped Israel, [SHAPED] Jesus and the early church are no longer the primary "glasses" that we view all doctrine and life through. Are we shaped by the worldview that the "bible of Jesus" creates with its distinctive story of God?

Christ defined the ANTITHESIS of the Old Testament Monarchy

Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
        to the house of the God of Jacob; [Israel]
        and he will teach us of his ways,
        and we will walk in his paths:
        for out of Zion shall go forth the law,
        and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.


Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
        All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
        baptizing them in the name [Singular] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
        and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Peter defines that as the Prophets by the Spirit of Christ and the prophecies made more perfect by Jesus of Nazareth Whom God gave the power and authority by making him to be both Lord and Christ.

God's will is Dŏcĕo  I. to teach, instruct, inform, show, tell, etc. (for syn. cf.: edoceo, perdoceo, erudio, praecipio, instituo).

Jesus and the apostles taught the gospel of the kingdom: Christ rules as king and He makes the laws which are just and righteous. The Doctrine of Christ is whatever He taught through the prophets and Apostles with Jesus of Nazareth who fulfilled the prophets.
Lex , lēgis,
C. In gen., a law, precept, regulation, principle, rule, mode, manner: “qui disciplinam suam legem vitae putet,
2. Hence of conditions or terms of peace
The WORD of Jesus who was made to be both Lord and Christ was the Word of God in human form: the Son of the One God is His "words" which only He speaks and only to the Son.
Verbum ,I. gen. plur. verbūm, Plaut. As. 1, 3, 1; id. Bacch. 4, 8, 37; id. Truc. 2, 8, 14), n. from the root er; Gr. ΕΡω, whence εἴρω and ῥῆμα, what is spoken or said; cf. Goth. vaurd; Germ. Wort; Engl. word, a word; plur., words, expressions, language, discourse, conversation, etc. (cf.: vox, vocabulum)
The Greek SPEAK is the opposite of music or poetry. Therefore, Christ through Isaiah prewarned us that the spoken Words of God are opposite to and hostile to rhetoricians, singers, instrument players or actors defined by Jesus as Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites (Ezekiel 33).
Verbum or Logos is Opposite contumelia verborum, insulting or abusive language, which is defined as

grandis , A. In gen., great, strong, powerful: subsellia grandiorem et pleniorem vocem desiderant, “supercilium,lofty, “nos convivia cantamus,
Aulou-san It was the fashion at convivia to provide pipers, dancers, jesters, jugglers et hoc genus omne to amuse the guests. Cp. Xen. Symp. II. 1, Rep. 373 A klinai te...kai hetairai kai pemmata (with Adam's note); Ar. Ach. 1090 ff.; also Protag.
Aul-êtris A. [select] flute-girl, Simon.178, Ar.Ach.551, X.HG2.2.23, Pl.Prt.347d, BCH6.24 (Delos, ii B. C.), etc.
God HIDES Himself from the Wise or Sophists
Sophia , Ion. -, , prop. A. cleverness or skill in handicraft and art
of the Telchines, Pi.O.7.53; entekhnos s., of Hephaestus and Athena, Pl.Prt.32 1d; of Daedalus and Palamedes, X.Mem.4.2.33, cf. 1.4.2; in music and singing, tekhnē kai s. h.Merc.483, cf. 511; in poetry, Sol.13.52, Pi.O.1.117, Ar.Ra.882, X.An.1.2.8,
The SOP or "Psallo" Root was used by Jesus to cause the DEVIL to come into Judas: He was the son of Simon a Telchine:
Telchines  Pind. O. 7 I too, sending to victorious men poured nectar, the gift of the Muses, the sweet fruit of my mind, I try to win the gods' favor [10] for those men who were victors at Olympia and at Pytho. That man is prosperous, who is encompassed by good reports. Grace, which causes life to flourish, looks with favor now on one man, now on another, with both the sweet-singing lyre and the full-voiced notes of flutes. And now, with the music of flute and lyre alike I have come to land with Diagoras, singing the sea-child of Aphrodite and bride of Helios, Rhodes,...

They are MARKED by these Signs

Entekhn-os , on,
A. within the range or province of art,hai pisteis entekhnon esti mononArist.Rh. 1354a13.
2. furnished or invented by art, artificial, artistic, Pl. Prt.321d, al.; OPPOSITEatekhnos, pisteisArist.Rh.1355b36; e. methodos the regular  method, ib.a4.


BUT GOD CANNOT USE HUMAN TALENT: The Prophets spoke by the Spirit OF Christ. Jesus spoke what He HEARD from the Father.  Jesus repudiated THE Civil-Military-Clergy complex. The Apostles spoke only what Jesus revealed to them. They MARKED anyone who did not teach that which as written as FALSE teachers.

Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled;
        and they took knowledge of them,
        that they had been with Jesus.
Acts 4:19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them,
        Whether it be right in the sight of God
        to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.

Acts 4:20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.


Why Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites Christ defined as preachers, singers and instrument players are NOT permitted to PREACH the Word of GOD by SPEAKING it in the assembly. Christ defined the future Assembly as the same as the Church of Christ in the Wilderness. That is why there were no Rabbi in the group: many had attended the synagogue where they heard ready primarily the Prophets.
Atekhn-os , on,
A. without art, unskilful, Pl.Plt.274c; esp. ignorant of the rules or principles of art, opp. entekhnos or tekhnitēs, unskilled, unprofessional, of persons, Id.Sph.219a, Gal.6.134, S.E. P.3.262; having no trade or profession, PFlor.4.14 (iv A.D.); unsystematic, SE67.31; of pursuits, “a. tribēPl. Phdr.260e, cf. 262c, Lg.938a; pisteis a. proofs not invented by the orator, Arist.Rh.1355b35, 1375a22; “apodeixeisPh.1.355; “aiskhron kai a.not workmanlike, Hp.Fract.30; pur uncreative, OPPOSITE tekhnikon, Zeno Stoic.1.34; phantasia ib.2.24.
II. of persons, skilled, e. dēmiourgos a cunning workman, Pl.Lg.903c, cf. Plt.300e.
Bobby Valentine Stoned: First, a failure to take the Hebrew Bible seriously causes us to fundamentally misread the New Testament itself.

That's a fact: people use the father cursed Levites for defining them as the PATTERNISM for Musical Worship teams. Because they are ignorant of the Mount Sinai event and following the do not know that the Levites stood in RANKS under the King and Commanders of the Army to EXECUTE any civillian who came near any holy thing or place.  They attended the synagogue to hear the Word of God Read just as Jesus "exampled." They were OUTSIDE the camp where we will find Jesus to REST from religionis

Paul often points to the Old Testament to WARN against repeating it: He never teaches that we should imitate them.

Bobby Valentine Stoned: This is exhibited in a number of ways. The authors of Pagan Christianity, which is often a fine book, speak disparaging of how some "Christian" practices or ideas "reflect the thinking of other religions--primarily Judaism and paganism" (p. 10). I will be the first to admit that Christianity has often been a Chameleon. Yet the issue that bothers me most is the authors fail to realize that Christianity is in fact "Jewish."

That is radicallly NOT close to the facts. "JEWISH" defines that period under the God abandoned Monarchy.

Coffman's Commentary Speaks for the total Bible view that Israel's rejection of God as King, Judge and Priest set the stage for their later repudiation of Jesus Christ in order to keep the evil Temple-System like all other nations. Remember that the clergy was still seeking a king "like the nations" and had not a hint of looking for a Spiritual King, Prince and Mediator:

The great Cambridge scholar, Henry McKeating, has the following comment on this passage from Hosea:

"Hosea is not only antagonistic to the northern kings but to the monarchy as such. The monarchy is powerless to save the nation. Israel was wrong to ask for a king. Her punishment was that she got what she asked." 7: Henry McKeating, Amos, Hosea, and Micah (Cambridge: University Press, 1971), p. 148.

Coffman: "We are aware that it is popular among many able commentators today to make apologies for Israel's monarchy and to apply what the Scriptures plainly say about it to some specific monarch, Saul, for example, as did Dummelow, or to the kings of Northern Israel as did Hailey;

but it is the conviction of this writer that
Israel was
totally and completely wrong in asking a king and that this rejection of God (that is what the text calls it) contained embryonically all of the later sorrows of the Chosen People.

Throughout the whole history of Israel, there were very few monarchs who even tried to serve the Lord. Solomon was to be blamed for the division of the kingdom under his son, because the people simply rejected the excesses of Solomon; and yet, even after God took the monarchy away from them, the nation wanted nothing in heaven or on earth as much as they wanted the restoration of that scandalous Solomonic empire.

It was this, more than anything else, that motivated their rejection of God Himself,

finally and irrevocably,
in their rejection of God's Son, Jesus Christ the Holy One.

Go down the list of Israel's kings, David, the very best of all of them, was an adulterer and a murderer; and he also corrupted the worship of God by two sinful things:

(1) his initiating the events that led to the building of the temple (the den of thieves and robbers in Jesus' times); and

(2) his introduction of instruments of music into the worship of God. We do not have the space here to outline all of the misdeeds of Israel's shameful monarchy,

but it is clear enough that God's disapproval of the monarchy was no late thing, applicable only to the phantom kings of Ephraim's final years, but it rested upon the monarchy from the very beginning of it as outlined in this chapter.

If God had ever approved of it, He would never have taken it away from them!

Nevertheless, God accommodated to the sinful conduct of His people and in many specific instances blessed the kings of Israel,

"The Israelite state was not founded with divine blessing. Rather, it was allowed as a grudging concession, just as a parent lets a child have his way in order that he may learn his folly from experience." (Anderson, Bernard, Theology of the O.T. p. 163).

"In one sense the creation of the monarchy was providential...In retrospect, one can say that events which brought about the collapse of the Confederacy and the rise of the Israelite state were not...devoid of divine purpose. God's revelation is relevant to the whole of human life--to economics, politics, and every sphere of human activity.

If God would speak to the nations through Israel,

then Israel must undergo the experience of being a nation in order that she might appreciate the wealth of nationhood and attack the idolatrous power of nationalism." (Bernard Anderson, p. 163)

All that follows in the Monarchy is God "turning them over to worship the starry hosts" Acts 7 etc.
Hos 8:1 Set the trumpet to thy mouth. He shall come as an eagle against the house of the LORD,
because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law.
Hos 8:2 Israel shall cry unto me, My God, we know thee.
Hos 8:3 Israel hath cast off the thing that is good: the enemy shall pursue him.
Hos 8:4 They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not:
of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.
Hos 8:5 Thy calf, O Samaria, hath cast thee off; mine anger is kindled against them:
        how long will it be ere they attain to innocency?
Hos 8:6 For from Israel was it also:  the workman made it; t
        herefore it is not God: but the calf of Samaria shall be broken in pieces.
Hos 8:14 For Israel hath forgotten his Maker, and buildeth temples;
        and Judah hath multiplied fenced cities:
        but I will send a fire upon his cities,
        and it shall devour the palaces thereof.
Bobby Valentine Stoned: The "New Testament" is literally written on the soil and in the atmosphere of the "Old Testament." This anti-Jewish vein of thought that has a long pedigree in Christian anti-semiticism. This goes so far in some folks that they have actually denied the Jewishness of Jesus himself. Jesus cannot be understood apart from the Hebrew Bible, a point to which we will return.

Bobby Valentine Stoned: Second, if it is true that the "NT" was birthed with the blood of the Hebrew Bible flowing through its veins then that should move us to step back and see what this means. One scholar who has helped me think some of these issues through is G. Ernest Wright. In the middle of the 20th century Wright published a book entitled God Who Acts: Biblical Theology as Recital (1952). The first chapter of that book (The Church's Need of the Old Testament) should be required reading for every potential theologian in the church ... and every preacher is a theologian (the only question is whether one is a good one or not). One of the most astonishing claims made by Wright is that the Hebrew Bible is a "bulwark against paganism" for the church (p. 19). And it was an "enlightened" paganism that made such a profound resurgence in Modernism and has been embraced in the trappings of Christianity today.

Bobby does not grasp that what he calls The Hebrew Bible is not a book: it is a library.  Only the Prophets were inspired by the Spirit OF (preposition) Christ.  The Scribes worked for the not-commanded and lawless Monarchy. Christ warns about the Lying Pen of the Scribes.  He called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites by referring to Christ in Isaiah and Ezekiel.  Ezekiel names Speaker, Singers and Instrument players.  Not surprising a hypocrite MEANS only rhetoricians, singers, instrument players, dancers or actors.

I would suggest that you read the PROPHETS if you are a Disciple

God would not CONVERT him into a spiritual person based on what the kings would do:

And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people that asked of him a king. 1 Samuel 8:10

And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots. 1 Samuel 8:11

And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots. 1 Samuel 8:12

And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers. 1 Samuel 8:13

And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants. 1 Samuel 8:14

And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards,
        and give to his officers, and to his servants. 1 Samuel 8:15

And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work. 1 Samuel 8:16

He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants. 1 Samuel 8:17

Human kings take, take, take, take, take and GIVE to his friends. And YOU are not going to like it.

And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you;

and the Lord will not hear you in that day. 1 Samuel 8:18

Bobby Valentine Stoned: How does the "OT" function in this regard? First through its doctrine of Creator and creation (the Bible has no theology of nature but only of creation). God is not part of creation though he is intimately involved with it, and creation has a purpose and goal. This may sound esoteric but it is not ... indeed it is of fundamental importance.

After Israel was sentenced to captivity and death BACK in Babylon, Moses worte an inverted form of the Babylonian Creation Epics to WARN the Israelites that they would merge with the Canaanites and God would terminate His protection.  Moses was an EGYPTIAN totally.

The Creation is a paradigm or motiff repeated many times in the Prophets: it is to warn the Israelites that they HAD fallen into a vain and empty form. 


At that time this people and Jerusalem will be told, "A scorching wind (spirit) from the barren heights in the desert blows toward my people, but not to winnow or cleanse; Jeremiah 4:11

a wind (spirit) too strong for that comes from me. Now I pronounce my judgments against them." Jeremiah 4:12

Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us for we are spoiled. Jeremiah 4:13

My bowels, my bowels I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war Jeremiah 4:19

Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment. Jeremiah 4:20

How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? Jeremiah 4:21

For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. Jeremiah 4:22

I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without [1] form, and [2] void; and the [3] heavens, and they had no [4] light. Jeremiah 4:23

Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.


    Erec (h776) eh'-rets; from an unused root prob. mean. to be firm; the earth
    (at large, or partitively a land): - * common, country, earth, field, ground,
    land, * nations, way, / wilderness, world.

        And they came unto Jacob their father unto the land of Canaan,
        and told him all that befell unto them; saying, Ge.42:29

   [2]Without form

        Tohuw (h8414)to'-hoo; from an unused root mean. to lie waste; a desolation (of surface),
        i. e. desert; fig. a worthless thing; adv. in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form,
        nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

        And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
        And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Ge.1:2

The earth or fruitful places BECAME void and empty or filled with evil and ignorance. They were not created that way.

        For thus saith the Lord [Jehovah] that
        created the heavens; God [the TRUE Elohim] himself
        that formed the earth
        and made it;
        he hath established it,
            he created it not in vain,
            he formed it to be inhabited
        I am the Lord; and there is none else. Is.45:18

        He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness;
        he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye. De.32:10

        He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth
        upon nothing. Jb.26:7

        None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies;
        they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity. Is.59:4

    [3]And void

    Bohuw (h922) bo'-hoo; from an unused root (mean. to be empty);
    a vacuity, i. e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: - emptiness, void.

        And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
        And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Ge.1:2
        2822. choshek, kho-shek´; from 2821; the dark; hence (literally) darkness;
        figuratively, misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness:—
        dark(-ness), night, obscurity.

The parable-like or "superior speech" of the creation story shows that God speaks the word by blowing spirit from His mouth.

By the (1) word (dabar is same as logos) of the (2) LORD (Jehovah is I Am not We are) the heavens were made, and all their host by the (3) breath (h7307 spirit) of his mouth (means of blowing wind or double-edged sword). Psalm 33:6

He (blew and) gathered the waters of the sea as in a bottle; he put the deeps in storehouses. Psalm 33:7
Let all the
earth fear the LORD, let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him! Psalm 33:8
he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood forth. Psalm 33:9
Karen Armstrong, in A History of God, says that "God had His word and wisdom with Him. Because we are created in His image, we have our mind or spirit, word and wisdom, breath or wind with us as a triune being made in God's image

The modern Christian cut loose from the Hebraic roots of faith reads the NT through a vaguely defined "spiritual" worldview. The knowledge of God is reduced to a feeling or an "experience." This spiritual experience is defined in radically individual terms (almost) completely separated from communal life and the program of God revealed in the narrative of Scripture. This "spirituality" instead emphasizes prayer (which is not bad btw) and the immortality of the soul. Wright states plainly, and correctly, "this represents the paganizing of the Gospel ... This Gospel is no scandal nor stumbling block" (p. 23). It is a reversion to "pagan normalcy."

Not so: The Qahal, Synagogue or Church of Christ in the wilderness was UNTANGLED from the Hebrew Roots absolutely by Christ the Rock. The Church was QUARANTINED from the Robbers and Parasites who practiced a Babylonian form of "worship.
Every seven years, that is in the year of release, during the feast of Tabernacles, 
the Law was to be read before all the people according to the command found in Deut., xxxi, 10.

But this enactment was probably soon found to be impracticable;
        and thus the Jewish authorities arranged to read on every sabbath,
        commencing with the sabbath after the feast of Tabernacles in one year of release
        and ending with the feast of Tabernacles in the next year of release,
        a portion of the Law so calculated that the whole Pentateuch would be read through in seven years.

This would in some way the commandment be fulfilled. Some time later,
        the Jews of Palestine lengthened the sections for each sabbath
        in such a manner that he entire Law could be read in three years (Talm. Babyl. Megillah, 29b).

Miqra (h4744) mik-raw'; from 7121; something called out, i. e. a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the place); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading. Ne.8:8

And the Lord will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence. Is.4:5


Numbers 10.[7]  [7] quando autem congregandus est populus simplex tubarum clangor erit et non conciseululabunt

Academia congregation. Collect into a flock,  where plato taught, scholars are called Academici, and his doctrine Philosophia Philosophia Academica,

in distinction from Stoica, Cynica, etc., Cic. de Or. 1, 21, 98; id. Or. 3, 12; id. Fin. 5, 1, 1 al.
Cic. de Orat. 1.  [21] Neque vero ego hoc tantum oneris imponam nostris praesertim oratoribus in hac tanta occupatione urbis ac vitae, nihil ut eis putem licere nescire, quamquam vis oratoris professioque ipsa bene dicendi hoc suscipere ac polliceri videtur, ut omni de re, quaecumque sit proposita, ornate ab eo copioseque dicatur.
ē-lŏquor  I. v. dep. a., to speak out, speak plainly, to utter; to pronounce, declare, state, express: Rhetorical, Eloquent, ornate  B. Trop., to adorn, decorate, set off; to commend, praise, extol; to honor, show honor to, distinguish:
Quint. Inst. 10 1.7 [7] I know that some speakers make a practice of learning lists of synonyms by heart, in order that one word out of the several available may at once present itself to them, and that if, after using one word, they find that it is wanted again after a brief interval, they may be able to select another word with the same meaning and so avoid the necessity of repetition. But this practice is childish and involves thankless labour, while it is really of very little use, as it merely results in the assembly of a disorderly crowd of words, for the speaker to snatch the first that comes to hand.
The philosophy of the Acadamy, A. For The philosophy of the Academy: “instaret academia, quae quidquid dixisses,
Dixisses: to say, speak, utter, tell, mention, relate, affirm, declare, state, assert

Cyrenaica pleasure is the only good. Good in a pleasing agitation of the mind or in active enjoyment. hedone. Nothing is just or unjust by nature, but by custom and law. 
Cynics Diogenes, in particular, was referred to as the Dog.. a distinction he seems to have revelled in, stating that "other dogs bite their enemies, I bite my friends to save them."  Later Cynics also sought to turn the word to their advantage, as a later commentator explained:
        There are four reasons why the Cynics are so named. First because of the indifference of their way of life, for they make a cult of indifference and, like dogs, eat and make love in public, go barefoot, and sleep in tubs and at crossroads. The second reason is that the dog is a shameless animal, and they make a cult of shamelessness, not as being beneath modesty, but as superior to it. The third reason is that the dog is a good guard, and they guard the tenets of their philosophy. The fourth reason is that the dog is a discriminating animal which can distinguish between its friends and enemies. So do they recognize as friends those who are suited to philosophy, and receive them kindly, while those unfitted they drive away, like dogs, by barking at them.

He once masturbated in the Agora; when rebuked for doing so, he replied, "If only it was as easy to soothe my hunger by rubbing my belly."

Augustine stating that they had, "in violation of the modest instincts of men, boastfully proclaimed their unclean and shameless opinion, worthy indeed of dogs." De Civitate Dei 14.20.

From the city of God
Human nature, then, is without doubt ashamed of this lust; and justly so, for the insubordination of these members, and their defiance of the will, are the clear testimony of the punishment of man’s first sin. And it was fitting that this should appear specially in those parts by which is generated that nature which has been altered for the worse by that first and great sin,—that sin from whose evil connection no one can escape, unless God’s grace expiate in him individually that which was perpetrated to the destruction of all in common, when all were in one man, and which was avenged by God’s justice.

Phil. 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision,
        which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus,
        and have no confidence in the flesh
Bobby Valentine Stoned: The more carefully we study the Hebrew Bible the more clearly a distinctive view of God as Creator and Redeemer emerges and his relationship to his creation and humanity. This worldview is absolutely essential to biblical faith and is totally absorbed into the New Testament. The results of this loss are, in my view, the hyper individualism we see today and a neo-platonic spirituality that is alien to the entire Bible. The loss of the "bible" of Jesus births a Reader's Digest religion.

The Church of Christ is defined inclusively and Exclusively by Christ in all of the Prophets.

Christ warns about how the Sons of the Devil will try to silence the voicel of Messiah in Isaiah 50.
Isaiah 50.6 [6] corpus meum dedi percutientibus et genas meas vellentibus faciem meam non averti ab increpantibus et conspuentibus


Per-cŭtĭo  Carries the always-violent message of Psallo
(With the idea of the verb predominating.) To strike, beat, hit, smite, shoot, etc. (cf.: ico, pulso, ferio).

I. (With the notion of the per predominating.) To strike through and through, to thrust or pierce through (syn.: percello, transfigo).

Pulso.  Of military engines. Of musical instruments: “chordas digitis et pectine eburno,to strike, play upon, Verg. A. 6, 647: “chelyn,Val. Fl. 1, 139: “pectine nervos,Sil. 5, 463: “cymbala,Juv. 9, 62.—Of things: “pulsant arva ligones,Ov. Am. 3, 10, 31; id. M. 11, 529: “nervo pulsante sagittae,Verg. G. 4, 313.
        Always Violent: A. In gen., to urge or drive on, to impel, to set in violent motion,
        to move
, agitate, disturb, disquiet:—

Pello, Always Violent: 1. To drive out or away, to thrust or turn out, expel, banish; esp. milit., to drive back, discomfit, rout the enemy (freq. and class.; syn.: fugo, elimino, deicio)
         4. Of a musical instrument, to strike the chords, play: “nervi pulsi,struck,
 Cic. Brut. 54, 199
: “lyra pulsa manu,Ov. M. 10, 205; cf.: “classica pulsa,” i. e. blown

In Particular b. To strike, play a musical instrument (poet.): “lyram,Ov. Am. 3, 12, 40; Val. Fl. 5, 100.—

Ov. Am. 3.12 Elegy XII: He complains that the praises he has bestowed on his mistress in his verses, have occasioned him many rivals.

Christ in Isaiah 55 defines the Free water of the Word as SPIRIT which cannot be repackaged and sold by true Disciples.

Isaiah 58 defines the TRUE Rest day as ANTITHETICAL to the Jewish Sabbath.
Paul in Romans 15 knew that Christ had forbidden seeking your own pleasure or speaking your own words.  If you could make up your own songs and sermons they you DON'T NEED Jesus.

And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places:
        thou shalt
raise up the foundations of many generations;
        and thou shalt be called,

                The repairer
of the breach,
restorer of paths to dwell in. Isa 58:12

Sabbath does not mean Saturday but: intermission

A primitive root; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him,

not doing thine own ways,
        nor finding thine own pleasure,
        nor speaking thine own words
: Isa 58:13

Romans XV. 1 debemus autem nos firmiores imbecillitates infirmorum sustinere et non nobis placere

Sustinere  I. to hold up, hold upright, uphold, to bear up, keep up, support, sustain 1.To sustain, support, maintain, by food, money, or other means (maintain, preserve with dignity of a citizen II. Concr., the citizens united in a community, the body - politic, the state, and as this consists of one city and its territory, or of several cities, it differs from urbs, i.e. the compass of the dwellings of the collected citizens; 

Imbecillitas Caes. B. G. 7, 77, 9

Outlawed:  Placeo to please, to be pleasing or agreeable, to be welcome, acceptable, to satisfy (class.).
1. In scenic lang., of players or pieces presented, to please, find favor, give satisfaction: scenico placenti 

Rom. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, 
        if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. 
        Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Outlawed: Scaenicus I. of or belonging to the stage, scenic, dramaticORGANA, theatrical
I. Lit.: poëtae, dramatic poets, ludi, stage-plays, theatrical representations, : fabula, a drama,  
2. Placere sibi, to be pleased or satisfied with one's self, to flatter one's self, to pride or plume one's self

I. Lit.: poëtae, dramatic poets, ludi, stage-plays, theatrical representations, : fabula, a drama, organa, Suet. Ner. 44 : coronae, id. ib. 53 : habitus, id. ib. 38 : gestus, Cic. de Or. 3, 59, 220 : modulatio Comedy. Orator

Poi-êtês II. composer of a poem, author, p. kômôidias Pl.Lg.935e ; p. kainôn dramatôn, b. composer of music, 2. author of a speech

Outlawed:  Placeo to please, to be pleasing or agreeable, to be welcome, acceptable, to satisfy (class.).
1. In scenic lang., of players or pieces presented, to please, find favor, give satisfaction: scenico placenti 

Rom. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, 
        if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. 
        Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Outlawed: Scaenicus I. of or belonging to the stage, scenic, dramaticORGANA, theatrical
I. Lit.: poëtae, dramatic poets, ludi, stage-plays, theatrical representations, : fabula, a drama,  
2. Placere sibi, to be pleased or satisfied with one's self, to flatter one's self, to pride or plume one's self

I. Lit.: poëtae, dramatic poets, ludi, stage-plays, theatrical representations, : fabula, a drama, organa, Suet. Ner. 44 : coronae, id. ib. 53 : habitus, id. ib. 38 : gestus, Cic. de Or. 3, 59, 220 : modulatio Comedy. Orator

Poi-êtês II. composer of a poem, author, p. kômôidias Pl.Lg.935e ; p. kainôn dramatôn, b. composer of music, 2. author of a speech

[2] unusquisque vestrum proximo suo placeat in bonum ad aedificationem [3] etenim Christus non sibi placuit sed sicut scriptum est inproperia inproperantium tibi ceciderunt super me 

LOQUOR I. inf. loquier, Naev. ap. Gell. 1, 24, 2), v. dep. n. and a. [Sanscr. lap-, to talk, whisper; Gr. lak-, elakon, laskô], to speak, talk, say (in the lang. of common life, in the tone of conversation; cf. Quint. 9, 4, 10; 11, 3, 45). 

1. To speak out, to say, tell, talk about, mention, utter, name: A. To speak, declare, show, indicate or express clearly:

Aedificatio III. Fig., building up, instructing, edification.
(a). Absol.: loquitur ad aedificationem, Vulg. 1 Cor. 14, 3 ; 14, 26.--
(b). With gen.: ad aedificationem Ecclesiae [church], Vulg. 1 Cor. 14, 12 ; ib. Eph. 4, 12.

Rom. 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written,

        The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
Rom. 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime
        were written for our learning,
        that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Rom. 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation
        grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Rom. 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God,
        even the Father of our Lord Jesus Chris


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